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So EVE is "Just a Game" eh?

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Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:17:00 - [1] We frequently see posts on these boards from angry people demanding satisfaction for the loss of their ship. Sometimes we see a full blown flamewar emerge. In those cases we often see someone posting these words of wisdom; "It's just a game". Fair enough, this is indeed a computer game, but we need to start realising that, to Humans, a game can often turn into something a lot more serious. Football is a game. A game which has evolved into a multi million Dollar industry, surrounded by fanatical fans and all manner of intrigues which any interaction between people seems to produce. Players are celebrities, shady deals are dealt in corporate back offices to strenghten a side, secure a trade or even to spy on the tactics of their greatest opponents. Bets are played on match outcomes and fortunes can be made or lost. Television rights are sold for even more millions. Fans are rabid in their support of a particualr team and many lives have been ruined or lost due to battles between opposing gangs of supporters. And yet, at the heart of it lies a game played on a field by 22 men who try to get a ball into a net as often as possible. Yes, football is just a game. SO the phrase "Just a game" begins to take on a new meaning. Is it any wonder that our fellow EVE addicts get so upset when someone does something to interfere with their playstyle? Is it any wonder that calling it a game does nothing to mollify the injured party(ies)? Eve is REAL people. It lives and breathes and is in a constant state of flux. Players spend an enormous amount of time planning and executing new strategies. Large groups of people spend days of their lives trying to make a plan happen. Several brilliant minds and many great people spend inordinate amounts of time concentrated on one thing only: EVE. Can we still call it a game? Sure, go ahead. We see the offshoots of this creeping into society in the form of E-Bay'ed ingame merchandise and sweatshop farming. Is it a game to the people out there actually depending on MMO's in general to put food on the table?(and they certainly exist). So now we see how useless that comment really is: A game is all things to all men. People take them very very seriously. So the definition of game needs to be updated. Dictionary .com has 15 definition for Game and then 7 more qualifying phrases. I would like to quote two of em. Game: 3. a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators. 22. play games, to act in an evasive, deceitful, manipulative, or trifling manner in dealing with others: Don't play games with meùI want to know if you love me or not! So as you can see, games are thought of as being all fun and ..well..games, yet at the heart of them lies the quintisential human struggle: To outdo your opponent using whatever it takes to win. So Game on everyone. All I can ask is that you dont take it all too seriously, but who is listening? Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
Kalaan Oratay The Imperial Commonwealth The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:21:00 - [2] It may be god to someone, it may put food on the table for someone else - but to me, it really is just a game --- Originally by: Archilies Ignore what others say: Fit what you want, with what you have, whenever you want.
Bourbon Bob Astronomic Influence	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:26:00 - [3] I used to take this game far too seriously at one time, running a corp etc trying to make plans work, but it ended up feeling like a job. I treat it just as a game these days, I play when im bored, and have nothing else to do, but I find that casual play tends to exclude me from a lot of the bigger things that happen in the game. But nm, RL comes first for me now.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:26:00 - [4] Thats what I mean: Your definition of game is then: A recreational activity for fun and entertainment. Not to be taken too seriously. Thats the same way I see it. Other peoples milage may differ. Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:36:00 - [5] I think the question isnt to ask if it is a game or not, but if you are enjoying yourself. -------------------------- AHH the Stupid forum DELETED(!) all my mod chat in my sig when i added this image :(
Sable Schroedinger Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:46:00 - [6] Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 13/09/2006 09:49:25 Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 13/09/2006 09:48:36 Originally by: Noluck Ned Thats what I mean: Your definition of game is then: A recreational activity for fun and entertainment. Not to be taken too seriously. Thats the same way I see it. Other peoples milage may differ. if you accept that some people see it more than "A recreational activity for fun and entertainment", then you need to also ask: "is that a mentality we should indulge" edit to clarify a point -------------------------------------------- Nothing is as cruel as the righteousness of innocents
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.13 09:47:00 - [7] To take the football analogy a step further: Originally by: Bill Shankly Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 13/09/2006 09:49:25 Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 13/09/2006 09:48:36 Originally by: Noluck Ned Thats what I mean: Your definition of game is then: A recreational activity for fun and entertainment. Not to be taken too seriously. Thats the same way I see it. Other peoples milage may differ. if you accept that some people see it more than "A recreational activity for fun and entertainment", then you need to also ask: "is that a mentality we should indulge" edit to clarify a point Thats how I define a "Game" I own playstation "Games" and play them for fun. The enjoyment I derive from EVE is of a whole different order of magnitude. I say we must accept that some people take it less seriously, but by the same token those people should NOT act all innocent and surprised when someone else takes it personally. Every PVP pilot in EVE should face up to that fact and not ever hide behind an innocent expression and a "Wut I do?, It jus a game" attitude. Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.13 10:22:00 - [9] It's just a game, I would agree, but that's no reason _not_ to take it seriously. I mean, getting an op together later than you should one night, to fight off an opposing fleet may be a bit more 'serious' than people think sensible, but it's also quite a lot of fun. To play like you mean it, yes, I'd like to do that to. And I also don't like to lose. When I get a ship popped, I generally log off and sulk for a bit. (well, not quite sulk, but ya'know, take a break, have a coffee, and do something else). However, on the flipside, RL is more important. I have a day job, which lets me pay my bills, buy food, and otherwise live. This takes priority over EVE. I have a social life, despite living in a house of EVE players (yes, really, 5 members of my corp are in the same household), which also takes priority over EVE. I might jockey a bit with scheduling, e.g. if I know I want to be online at a particular time, but basically social is more important. So, "It's just a game" is a good thing to remember. It's good to remember at the points where you're getting worked up at someone, and starting to hate the player, behind the character. Most of the 'ebil pie-rats' or 'zomg evil alliance' are decent folk IRL. I'd happily share a drink with 'em. (Who's buying, depends on who's lost a fight most recently ;)). That doesn't mean I'm not going to shoot at them in game, and vice versa. So yes. Remember. EVE is a game. We do it for fun. Play how you wish, and remember, that other people are going to as well.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:00:00 - [10] game = activity to make the time 'til death not so boring ... imho life is a game - don't take it too serious ... it's ****** up? don't worry .. in the end everything becomes good - if it's not good, it's not the end /platitudes off - me hides from the style-police ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.

evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:07:00 - [11] getting a bunch of people together to go play a game generally is not hard, but coordinating a global effort to ensure players from all walks of life, personality, and time zone to operate in a single operation is far from a game. Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Lazuran	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:09:00 - [12] I would argue about this... But it's just a forum. "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Skawl GeoTech	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:18:00 - [13] I've never understood why people get so worked up about spectating football (or other sports). They get all excited about watching something that they ultimately have no control over. Playing games is a different matter - I can understand the competative nature of that whether we're talking about football players or the people who play eve. I'm much less worried by the mental health of someone who takes playing a game seriously than I am about someone simply watching. That said, people frequently take it too far - ultimately it is just a game :)
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Skawl I've never understood why people get so worked up about spectating football (or other sports). They get all excited about watching something that they ultimately have no control over. Playing games is a different matter - I can understand the competative nature of that whether we're talking about football players or the people who play eve. I'm much less worried by the mental health of someone who takes playing a game seriously than I am about someone simply watching. That said, people frequently take it too far - ultimately it is just a game :) if u want to get the best out of eve just go pure PVP - nothing like being blown up or blowing someone up to get the full rush
Valkazm Amarr Cursed Spawn Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:20:00 - [15] i personally take it as a game all the ship loss i just replace and do it quickly and dont over think my setup do abit of this abit of that .. I know alot of griefers in the game i are big babies who love to fool you using game mechanics inviting to gang etc ... and they later on killed me i just moved on not letting that satisfy them thats kinnda how you have to go through eve its always about moving on .. And that trully is the beauty of it the world changes all the time and you choose to adapt move on or what not ..it is just a game but it stops being a game when players are suddenly Game developers with there own expert comments on bugs lag etc .. When human emotions are put into the game it changes .. Cursed Spawn recruitment
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:27:00 - [16] eve is not a game its more alternative life Hey i get paid to be ebil - Xorus So how much you want for the ebil goat??-Tirg I don't - Imz0r
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:30:00 - [17] If I say something like 'It's just a game.' then I also want to express that it's not RL and that this game has rules that we agree to, if we play. Some things are just part of this game, like the possibility to get killed and lose over a billion isk in a minute, like if you fly with your faction fitted faction BS into low sec and get pirated. People agree that other players might attack them in low sec, if they play. So if someone gets angry about 'evil pirates with RL problems', then what else can you say to him except it's a game? He can suck it down and adapt to it or quit, if he doesn't like the game. If someone loses time, because another player sets him back, well, it's part of this pvp-focused game. Don't like it, don't play or try to adapt and avoid situations you don't like. No warranty though. That's at least what I usually mean with it. Playing a multi-player game doesn't mean that everyone plays like you or by your rules.
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:37:00 - [18] By a standard definition, a 'game' has a beginning a middle and an end. (win or lose). Roleplaying table top "games" began to change that definition in the late seventies. Most MMO's fall into 'game' merely by the sharding methods that make what happens "not unique". Eve's persistent world and non sharded approach changes that definition. There is no 'end'. It persists, as does real life. We who live now in the beginning of the 21st century are seeing the beginnings of VR in a way that Gibson wrote about many years ago. Is EVE a game? Not too me. But to another its just 'playtime'. We all have different approaches, yet the 'world' continues with or without us. Sounds more like life than 'game' doesn't it? ----- ------------ Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV
Burner23 Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:41:00 - [19] Damn boy you can write Its just a game true, and we make it what it is today
Demarcus Project Gemini Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:47:00 - [20] I have spent way to much time in EVE to consider it a game. It is more of a full blown hobby in itself. I can't think of any other "games" that have caused me to build spreadsheets and databases. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.

Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:14:00 - [21] Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/09/2006 12:18:04 Originally by: Sevarus James Is EVE a game? Not too me. But to another its just 'playtime'. We all have different approaches, yet the 'world' continues with or without us. Sounds more like life than 'game' doesn't it? Well, agree, but game or not, it's always good not to mix up RL and the game world. People, who argue with lost time and rl money after a loss in-game make exactly that mistake. Everyone basically just buys playtime in this virtual universe and that's what he gets. He has been told how EVE is. And he can try to achieve his goals, but it's pvp and doesn't have many rules, so not much guarantees, if you reach your goals or not or if your char is 'poorer' after a game session, than before. I think many people have problems to understand it, but I think then they are wrong.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:36:00 - [22] If you like or not ISK is related to RL money and with the grand scale it hits Eve it stopped being just a game. It causes griefing and corruption and raises the stakes for the players even more.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:42:00 - [23] The real problem is keeping yourself in check and knowing when to draw the line. Some very valid points have been posted in the replies. MMO's are blurring the borders between RL and VR. Our DEV team will know what I am on about, for them EVE IS Real, its what they do and what puts bread on the table. Many of them spend their working day designing content and writing code for something they they do in their spare time to Relax. Were does the work end and the play begin? Eve is non sharded and as pointed out above, that lends a lot more depth to it than (insert most hated competing MMO here). And EVE is a non-mainstream niche type game, imagine if WOW where unsharded, non instanced and persistent(I said Imagine) If we suddenly had a virtual world with a population of 6 million.....well thats the size of a small country. There would be consequences, not all of them pleasant. Originally by: Posidrive So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
Bodhisattvas	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:45:00 - [24] Eve is a game?! Shi.... See Eve is what you make it. The amount of work some players put in eve makes this game more than just a break from rl. Suddenly rl is a break from eve... thats pretty scary tbh Like Bourbon Bob mentioned earlier, when you start playing more casual you do miss out on what the game has to offer, like I mostly solo pvp because I can't commit to gangs that often, thus no fleet combat or pos destroying blah blah blah. So yeah, eve is what you make it. Just don't make it a bigger deal than your wife and kids, family and health. That reminds me, I gotta collect the kids from School.. oh wait that was yesterday
dontlikemondays	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:45:00 - [25] Eve is a game?! Shi.... See Eve is what you make it. The amount of work some players put in eve makes this game more than just a break from rl. Suddenly rl is a break from eve... thats pretty scary tbh Like Bourbon Bob mentioned earlier, when you start playing more casual you do miss out on what the game has to offer, like I mostly solo pvp because I can't commit to gangs that often, thus no fleet combat or pos destroying blah blah blah. So yeah, eve is what you make it. Just don't make it a bigger deal than your wife and kids, family and health. That reminds me, I gotta collect the kids from School.. oh wait that was yesterday
Shabesa	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:51:00 - [26] I think any activity stops being just a game as soon as it involves another person. Even if you take simple 4-in-a-row and set up to play against somebody you at least need to commit to being there. Doesn't matter if it is happening in a game room, once you clicked Start game you made a "promise" to somebody and if you then bail out your reputation went down a notch. Sure you can argue they have no clue as to who you are but does it matter? You do. Now take MMOs where you do arrangements with people that are your buddies, in a virtual or real sense, and it gets even more serious. Fans are entirely different subject more suited for some forum dealing with psychoses
Cipher7 Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:56:00 - [27] Well, I wouldn't exactly call Eve a "game." Super Mario Brothers is a game. Eve is just an operating system that gives you access to the sandbox. The entertainment is up to the community.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:57:00 - [28] Its not 'just a game', its a hobby. Recruitment
Lucio Gallente Incorporated Holdings	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:33:00 - [29] I think a more relevant issue is that people try to use that reason to justify rather nasty behaviour. A good chunk of scammers, gankers and all round nasty pieces of filth like to isolate themselves from often real feelings of upset and anger with "it's just a game" Yes, you have to have perspective that this isn't a job and any losses aren't USUALLY permanent (except the cases of certain irreplaceable items), but there is definately too much work required for many things in Eve for their loss to be easily dismissed. ************************************************ Yes, I know I have a negative sec. status but I'm not a pirate damnit!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Lucio A good chunk of scammers, gankers and all round nasty pieces of filth like to isolate themselves from often real feelings of upset and anger with "it's just a game" Recruitment



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