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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tiia Doshu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
   |
Posted - 2015.01.04 23:08:48 -
[1] - Quote
Alright,
I've been playing EVE on and off since 2008 and one thing I've never found a reasonable explanation for is the mechanics/physics behind a 'sucker-bubble'.
Can someone please explain it to my wee-widdle-brain?
In case the terminology is unfamiliar ...
A -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------B--------C
I'm warping from A-B , straight line travel, no obstacles. Someone puts a warp disruption bubble BEHIND 'B' roughly 80-100km away. Just HOW EXACTLY is my warp disrupted by a field that I shouldn't be anywhere near, and how does it "PULL" my ship past the intended destination of 'B'?
Anyone have any CLUE how this works in the realm of physics either real or theoretical?
Thanks
Tiia
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
293
|
Posted - 2015.01.04 23:13:22 -
[2] - Quote
Creates a false beacon that you warp to.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1649
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:20:21 -
[3] - Quote
It's not dependent on physics, but on math.
Imagine the warp path a ship takes as a single line in a 3D space, and extrapolate it. The server simply checks whether this imaginary line intersects a bubble, and if so alters your warp path, making you drop our of warp at the edge of the bubble. The proper terminology is "drag bubble" by the way. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1745
|
Posted - 2015.01.04 23:27:14 -
[4] - Quote
Magnets.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
33
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:37:29 -
[5] - Quote
I'd hazard a guess at that it was buggy code that ingenious players adapted for their own use.
I'm a lowsec scallywag, so I rarely interact with bubbles. Take my entire post with a grain of salt. I think C needs to be on grid with B for the bubble to drag you further.
I certainly hope the mechanics stay exactly as they are. Confusing people(your victims) in combat is a brilliant tactic. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
4286
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:38:21 -
[6] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Magnets.
How do they work?
OP - It's based upon whether the line of your warp intersects any bubbles that are on grid with your destination. Note - that's the LINE of your warp, not just the line segment.
'On grid' defaults to a distance of about 200-250km but this can be changed by players under certain circumstances.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Tiia Doshu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.04 23:38:38 -
[7] - Quote
Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics. If the warp computer can differentiate between two canisters in a freakin' asteroid belt, or between a planet and the command center orbiting it ... then it can bloody well differentiate between a gate and a warp disruption bubble...the description of the module does NOT say 'Creates an Artificial Gravity Well' anywhere in it.
And mechanics derived from LAZY mathematical fornula are pathetic....just my 0.02isk.
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Lister Dax
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
46
|
Posted - 2015.01.04 23:41:45 -
[8] - Quote
A wizard did it. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
673
|
Posted - 2015.01.04 23:42:35 -
[9] - Quote
Tiia Doshu wrote:Alright,
I've been playing EVE on and off since 2008 and one thing I've never found a reasonable explanation for is the mechanics/physics behind a 'sucker-bubble'.
Can someone please explain it to my wee-widdle-brain?
In case the terminology is unfamiliar ...
A -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------B--------C
I'm warping from A-B , straight line travel, no obstacles. Someone puts a warp disruption bubble BEHIND 'B' roughly 80-100km away. Just HOW EXACTLY is my warp disrupted by a field that I shouldn't be anywhere near, and how does it "PULL" my ship past the intended destination of 'B'?
Anyone have any CLUE how this works in the realm of physics either real or theoretical?
Thanks
Tiia
Ha. You should see some of the semi-illegal grid-fu manipulated bubble traps that pull you mid-system dozens of AUs from your destination direct to zero on a predeterminedspot fully within a large bubble with no chance to cloak or warp or do anything. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
505
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:47:46 -
[10] - Quote
You tell me EXACTLY how warping in EVE works with its math and the realm of physics and I'll consider doing the same with drag bubbles. |
Julius Rigel
183
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:52:46 -
[11] - Quote
"Warping" means you're not actually moving your ship, but rather moving the space around your ship. Think of it like this: In your example, you start out at A and you want to end up at B, so you squeeze space together, like an accordion, so that B is really close to A. But C is much closer to B than B is to A, so that when you squeeze space together, C is practically on top of B, and thus when your ship occupies that compressed space, it touches the drag bubble as well as the place you intended to come out of warp. And the moment you touch the drag bubble, it kills your warp drive, and you come out of warp right at the edge of the bubble.
[URL=http://race.eviloatmeal.com]Do YOU like to undock?[/URL]
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
580
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:55:41 -
[12] - Quote
If it really bugs you, just think of it the way it's portrayed in other sci-fi universes: a large amount of projected artificial gravity. Would explain the "sucker" aspect of it.
Vote Sabriz!
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
376
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Posted - 2015.01.04 23:57:16 -
[13] - Quote
Tiia Doshu wrote:Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics. If the warp computer can differentiate between two canisters in a freakin' asteroid belt, or between a planet and the command center orbiting it ... then it can bloody well differentiate between a gate and a warp disruption bubble...the description of the module does NOT say 'Creates an Artificial Gravity Well' anywhere in it.
And mechanics derived from LAZY mathematical fornula are pathetic....just my 0.02isk.
Please explain how the warp computer works? |
Hal Morsh
Icendus Corux
Warp to Cyno.
240
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:03:22 -
[14] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Please explain how the warp computer works?
Look into EVE lore. It explains that things like stations must have artificial gravity wells for your warp drive to lock onto. I'm assuming a warp bubble deceives the warp drive, or just so happens to mess with where it's intending to land.
http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/interstellar-traveling/
Go to "5 - Faster-than-light travel GÇô how?" because it explains warp drives, including a picture of one :P
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
376
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:06:22 -
[15] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Please explain how the warp computer works?
Look into EVE lore. It explains that things like stations must have artificial gravity wells for your warp drive to lock onto. I'm assuming a warp bubble deceives the warp drive, or just so happens to mess with where it's intending to land. http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/scientific-articles/interstellar-traveling/
Go to "5 - Faster-than-light travel GÇô how?" because it explains warp drives, including a picture of one :P
sigh. The context of that question has been lost. lost in space.
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Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
915
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:06:36 -
[16] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Tiia Doshu wrote:Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics. If the warp computer can differentiate between two canisters in a freakin' asteroid belt, or between a planet and the command center orbiting it ... then it can bloody well differentiate between a gate and a warp disruption bubble...the description of the module does NOT say 'Creates an Artificial Gravity Well' anywhere in it.
And mechanics derived from LAZY mathematical fornula are pathetic....just my 0.02isk.
Please explain how the warp computer works?
It is fiction not reality. If it was reality this is however short answer not possible "yet"! |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
7012
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:07:43 -
[17] - Quote
Tiia Doshu wrote:Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics. If the warp computer can differentiate between two canisters in a freakin' asteroid belt, or between a planet and the command center orbiting it ... then it can bloody well differentiate between a gate and a warp disruption bubble...the description of the module does NOT say 'Creates an Artificial Gravity Well' anywhere in it.
And mechanics derived from LAZY mathematical fornula are pathetic....just my 0.02isk.
Wait until you start learning about Logistics ships, Carriers, and remote capacitor transfers.
They can "magically" create extra energy in direct violation of the "Conservation of energy" law.
Ooo... ooo... and space itself. We all move our ships in fluid rather than frictionless space!! (though, this has been often explained away by saying our warp and microwarp drives create an "anchor/drag-like" effect on space)
Asymmetrical ships. How are they moving without flying in random directions?
Everyone has access to ships that require no fuel to fly and can generate energy indefinitely. Yet (most races) still stick with weaponry which requires ammo rather than stuff that requires only power.
The biggest and most expensive ships in the game are the least flexible in terms of weapons and fittings. A Titan can literally be pointed by a single Tech 2 cruiser and not be able to do anything about it.
Time literally slows down the more people you have on grid (see: "Time Dilation").
What's my point?
It's a game. There are certain mechanics in place for a reason. Don't take it too seriously.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Hal Morsh
Icendus Corux
Warp to Cyno.
240
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Posted - 2015.01.05 00:07:46 -
[18] - Quote
I don't think anyone knows how the warp computer works. We just throw fictional sci-fi thingies like gravity capacitors and vibrating disks at it and create warp drives for fictions.
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
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Tiia Doshu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:10:08 -
[19] - Quote
Julius Rigel wrote:"Warping" means you're not actually moving your ship, but rather moving the space around your ship. Think of it like this: In your example, you start out at A and you want to end up at B, so you squeeze space together, like an accordion, so that B is really close to A. But C is much closer to B than B is to A, so that when you squeeze space together, C is practically on top of B, and thus when your ship occupies that compressed space, it touches the drag bubble as well as the place you intended to come out of warp. And the moment you touch the drag bubble, it kills your warp drive, and you come out of warp right at the edge of the bubble.
Unfortunately that's not how EVE's 'warp' works...at least not as I've understood it through reading the lore. Though to be honest their fluid-space physics is a bit mind-muddling I find. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
29232
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Posted - 2015.01.05 00:13:29 -
[20] - Quote
It shouldn't really matter how the mechanics work.
Don't warp gate-gate in nullsec, especially when not alone in system.
Drag bubble mechanics are much less likely to affect you then.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Tiia Doshu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:19:26 -
[21] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:It shouldn't really matter how the mechanics work.
Don't warp gate-gate in nullsec, especially when not alone in system.
Drag bubble mechanics are much less likely to affect you then.
Yeah yeah .. I know.
But knowing how to avoid most of them is not the same as understanding how the effect is allowed for in the game mechanics, how it's explained by those who created the game and are supposed to KNOW and explain how a thing works, or FIX it and stop it from working that way.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5603
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:36:23 -
[22] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Ha. You should see some of the semi-illegal grid-fu manipulated bubble traps that pull you mid-system dozens of AUs from your destination direct to zero on a predeterminedspot fully within a large bubble with no chance to cloak or warp or do anything.
Edit - only a few people know the full scope of bubble mechanics and how to create very interesting effects like what I described. I only know about half the tricks, its a closely guarded secret I guess. There is a video fro. About two years back that captures the mid-spCe bubb!e trap, and there is a forum post about it, search if interested.
But yeah bubble!he's can do a lot more then just pull you a few km away fro. Gate
There's a GARPA semi-secret manual that teaches how to play with grid shape and size. Some configurations require quite some efforts to be pulled off but the results are worth it. 
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
7012
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:40:58 -
[23] - Quote
Tiia Doshu wrote:But knowing how to avoid most of them is not the same as understanding how the effect is allowed for in the game mechanics, how it's explained by those who created the game and are supposed to KNOW and explain how a thing works, or FIX it and stop it from working that way.
Welcome to EVE where most mechanics are "intended" to work one way, then players use it in a completely different way. As long as truly "gamebreaking" tactics do not come up... CCP is generally fine with this setup.
Some examples:
- the "MWD-Cloak trick" (results in a slow ship getting into warp quicker under the protection of a cloaking device it was not intended to use)
- the "webbing-a-large-ship-trick" (results in large ships "insta-warping" and bypassing its intended slow alignment)
- "grid-fu" ("grids" are areas of space where you can see everything on your overview. Beyond this "grid" you cannot see anything beyond. Enterprising players have found ways to "extend the grid" out past its intended limit)
- Taking up residence in a Wormhole (it was never intended for people to set up a starbase in a wormhole and live there in any permanent fashion).
- Battle Haulers (before they were rebalanced, haulers of any kind were never intended to fight (let alone in any serious way)... players proved otherwise)
- Faction Warfare was intended to be a "PvPers paradise" (the reality is that it is a farmer's paradise)
- Null-sec was never intended to be "safe" for anyone (with intel channels, friends, and organization you can actually make 0.0 space the safest place in the game).
- Capitals were never intended to proliferate as much as they have (hahahahahahaha).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
34
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:44:26 -
[24] - Quote
TL;DR. Emergent behaviour happens in the sandbox, for no justifiable reason outside of just because. Love it or leave it. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Fidelas Constans
1906
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:46:11 -
[25] - Quote
Tiia Doshu wrote:Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics. If the warp computer can differentiate between two canisters in a freakin' asteroid belt, or between a planet and the command center orbiting it ... then it can bloody well differentiate between a gate and a warp disruption bubble...the description of the module does NOT say 'Creates an Artificial Gravity Well' anywhere in it.
And mechanics derived from LAZY mathematical fornula are pathetic....just my 0.02isk.
That's the whole point of a bubble.it specifically designed to confuse the Navigation computer |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19017
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:46:47 -
[26] - Quote
Magic.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
671
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Posted - 2015.01.05 00:54:43 -
[27] - Quote
Tiia Doshu wrote:Well...the math is faulty then and so is the physics.
You actually have the physics formula behind warp mechanics and interdiction bubbles? Can you share them with us and show where the current simulation violates them?
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Lugia3
The Southern Gentleman's Social Club
Easily Excited
1448
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:56:37 -
[28] - Quote
Why?
"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov!
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
581
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 01:28:09 -
[29] - Quote
Ok, so you are looking for a lore based reason.
I don't know if there is an actual lore explanation for how warp disruption works in Eve. Never looked into it. However, like I mentioned before, similar ideas have popped up in several sci-fi universes. Usually the idea is that prevention of faster-than-light travel is caused by a massive amount of artificial gravity. One example is in the Star Wars universe, where Interdiction Cruisers use their Gravity Wells to pull ships out of hyperspace. There are several times that said ship being pulled out of hyperspace is also pulled wildly off course, so the mechanic is not without inspiration. Not sure how that flushes up with Eve lore, but it's at least a starting point.
Outside of lore, it's just a thing. Deal with it.
Vote Sabriz!
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Foodpimp
xHELLonEARTHx
Against ALL Authorities
188
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 02:04:08 -
[30] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Magnets.
You do know that only a fraction of the people on here even know the relevance or origin of that post. |
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