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Floydd Heywood
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
31
   |
Posted - 2011.11.30 09:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Situation:
One of our pilots was attacked in w-space when approaching a wormhole leading to hisec. He jumped through, the attacker followed him GÇô and our pilot was aggression-flagged to him. So he resumed shooting and killed our pilot who didn't return fire because he didn't want to be concorded and frankly was not sure what the **** was going on.
There was no concord intervention. The combatants were not in same corp/ally and not at war.
Now...
1. Can anyone confirm this issue?
2. If so, can CCP confirm that this is intended or that it is a bug?
I'd actually like a change where wh aggression carries over to hisec. But some information about it would be nice ;-) |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 09:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Floydd Heywood wrote:Situation:
One of our pilots was attacked in w-space when approaching a wormhole leading to hisec. He jumped through, the attacker followed him GÇô and our pilot was aggression-flagged to him. So he resumed shooting and killed our pilot who didn't return fire because he didn't want to be concorded and frankly was not sure what the **** was going on.
There was no concord intervention. The combatants were not in same corp/ally and not at war.
Now...
1. Can anyone confirm this issue?
2. If so, can CCP confirm that this is intended or that it is a bug?
I'd actually like a change where wh aggression carries over to hisec. But some information about it would be nice ;-)
This should not happen, regardless of whether you aggressed him or not he should NOT be able to shoot you in highsec.
Now if you took something from a can that belonged to him or his corp then that's a different story. |
Floydd Heywood
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 09:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:This should not happen, regardless of whether you aggressed him or not he should NOT be able to shoot you in highsec.
Well that's the question  It COULD be an intended change. But I guess it's a bug, maybe introduced when they changed the logoffski aggression mechanics. I imagine that nobody ever tested this scenario on sisi.
It did definitely happen GÇô our pilot and the attacker had a chat afterwards and the attacker confirmed that our pilot was flagged to him and he didn't know why himself. No cans or stealing was involved.
Maybe someone wants to test this, easy with a neutral alt at a wormhole. I can't because I'm at work... |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can confirm that WH aggro is carried over to high sec space.
It does not answer the question whether it is bug or intended change though. |
Soldarius
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
78
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Peek-A-Boo Bombers officially endorses this product and/or service.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Floydd Heywood
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:I can confirm that WH aggro is carried over to high sec space.
Thanks. Now it's important to know whether one has to actually shoot someone before going to hisec or if it's enough to be shot at. I had no chance to talk to our pilot yet and ask him if he aggroed the attacker before jumping through the wh.
If receiving aggro is enough to be flagged in hisec, using Orcas in w-space just got a lot more dangerous... and would clearly indicate that this is an unintended bug and not a feature.
|
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Floydd Heywood wrote:Shpenat wrote:I can confirm that WH aggro is carried over to high sec space. Thanks. Now it's important to know whether one has to actually shoot someone before going to hisec or if it's enough to be shot at. I had no chance to talk to our pilot yet and ask him if he aggroed the attacker before jumping through the wh.
+1
If you willingly aggress and then jump out to escape then I think I'd be ok with this. Fighting on wormholes that exit into highsec is already pretty much pointless because of how easy it is to get involved in a fight and then immediately deaggress as soon as it looks like you might go down. That being said people have already adapted to this with bubbles, etc so I'm not sure this change was wholly appropriate.
If on the other hand you become a valid target if someone merely plinks you when you're trying to leave, then that's a bit harsh.
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CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
482
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator
@ccp_spitfire |
|
Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
There teh answer |
Tora Oni
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
To bad, would have a nice feature  |
Floydd Heywood
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 10:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
Great 
Would actually be cool if you keep it, but only for ships that aggressed before jumping through the wormhole. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:I can confirm that WH aggro is carried over to high sec space.
It does not answer the question whether it is bug or intended change though.
So... does zero sec aggro carry over to high/low sec too?
Not that it is intended either.
Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Gaer Anansi
Jack's Junkyard
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Not just w-hole aggression that's gone a bit screwy - I was helping a corpmate move a ship and when I webbed him, he turned red to me on my overview. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Shpenat wrote:I can confirm that WH aggro is carried over to high sec space.
It does not answer the question whether it is bug or intended change though. So... does zero sec aggro carry over to high/low sec too? Not that it is intended either.
Am interested to know this too.
I can't remember the last time I fought on a empire nullsec/highsec gate and jumped out (I've usually always killed the target or been killed myself). I'd be surprised if the same mechanic wasn't also working in empire - i.e. an invisible timer and you being red to someone you possibly don't know about. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gaer Anansi wrote:Not just w-hole aggression that's gone a bit screwy - I was helping a corpmate move a ship and when I webbed him, he turned red to me on my overview.
Corp mates are fair game for you to shoot anyway. I've turned red to corpmates when I've dropped from fleet from just "stealing" from a bookmark can or something. I think the red background might have precedence over "fleet" or "corp", or it may even depend on your own overview settings, etc. Either way it's not really a big deal when you can freely shoot corpmates anyway. |
Dino Boff
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
I experience the bug yesterday with a corp mate when rolling a wh. The webbed him to help him enter warp; 5 minutes later after jumping into the new static wh, an aggression timer appeared. The next time I helped with web, he became flashy. |
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Narwhals Ate My Duck
44
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Everyone chill, CCP Spitfire is onto this, in the meantime. Time to get some kills on HS holes!
WSpace; Best space. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 11:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Someone find out if just aggressing them is enough please |
Darod Zyree
Zyree Holding
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
Make it a design then?
This is awesome and exactly what wormholes need, no more jumping to safety of highsec if someone is loosing a fight while camping a wormhole.
|
Victor Valka
Endoxa Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 12:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
Will this be declared an exploit in the mean time? If not... 
|
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
160
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 12:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Darod Zyree wrote:CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
Make it a design then? This is awesome and exactly what wormholes need, no more jumping to safety of highsec if someone is loosing a fight while camping a wormhole.
Aggression should carry if you've shot them, not if they've shot you.
So if you try and escape via the wormhole when an attack goes wrong, they can pursue and get revenge. |
Zakuak
MortuuS MachinA
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 12:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wow this would change some things! I'm on the fence as to wether or not I like the bug though.
If by just getting a shot off and hitting an Orca while in the WH then chasing him out into hisec and continuing the fight even tho he cant shoot back....I dont like it but that makes me like it more lol. |
Floydd Heywood
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 13:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
My corpmate just confirmed that he never aggressed the attacker, also not on the w-space side. So it seems that getting a shot off is enough.
This of course does not make sense. It's also clearly an illegal exploit to farm illegit kills using this bug.
Still wanting the change for aggressing ships though :) |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 14:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
I LOVE THIS BUG. It actually creates risk for hole campers on hi-sec wormholes who would just sit there bubbling all day, gank a few carbeears and proclaim elite pvp while jumping out when a single hurricane shows up to fight 10 of them on the hole. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 14:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
Efficiency personalised on this guy, you post he answers 
Keep the good work rolling.
Hem, give a little kiss to Punkturis for me mkay? |
Barakkus
1105
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 15:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gaer Anansi wrote:Not just w-hole aggression that's gone a bit screwy - I was helping a corpmate move a ship and when I webbed him, he turned red to me on my overview.
Yes you get aggression timers on corp mates now that don't appear until you jump out of system. I was shooting my alt last night to get my windows set up properly again, and vice versa. After I was done, I redocked, reshipped then went off to where I wanted to go. After I jumped out of system the aggression timer appeared in the upper left corner. |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 16:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Hello all,
This is not by design; we are currently looking into this issue. I'll let you know as soon as I have more information.
Leave it! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
240
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 16:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
And the grieftards come a-flocking....
WH bubbles should be like mines - you drop one in a WH, and then go to hisec, and the moment someone gets caught in that bubble, you are flagged to their corp.
Consequences, right?
|
Malkev
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 17:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:WH bubbles should be like mines - you drop one in a WH, and then go to hisec, and the moment someone gets caught in that bubble, you are flagged to their corp.
Consequences, right?
Consequences for breaking the law in lawless...oh...wait. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
590
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 17:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
I could definitely see allowing aggression to carry into non-WH space if you agress while in Anoikis space, but it probably shouldn't if you never fired a shot and are basically doing nothing more than running away. That's a nice balance, imo.
Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
63
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 21:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
This is not just happening to WH's, but to all gates I believe....
Best Change to Gate Mechanics EVER!!!!
I can't decide if this is a really awesome change or not... I think you should leave it as is for the next month so we can evaluate it!!!!!
|
Pickles TheDrummer
Industrial Forge Works Inc
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 03:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP I would personally appricate it if you would leave this feature in place. I know that it is very annoying trying to kill a wormhole corp when they keep jump to high sec
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Tess La'Coil
Starfrackers Inc
Quantum Forge
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 07:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
For PvPers this is just plain awesome anywhere, if you manage to get a shot off where you're allowed you can follow your target wherever.
For failed gankers on WH's who jump back to HS after a failed attempt this is also awesome, as they can keep engaging on the other side when their target might think they are safe when jumping.
But it makes ZERO sense. Engaging means you are the aggressor, so you should get a penalty for this when you enter a secured space. Someone running away from you to a HS system that does not fight back at all should not be free game to you just because you shot at him where it was legal.
For petty WH ganking I can see the fun in this an all.. but consider the same for a Jump Freighter that just jumped to a LS Cyno and warps on a gate, gets targeted by you.. you get a shot off, and then it jumps to a 1.0 system. Where, you can warp scramble it.. and keep firing at it until it breaks. Alone, in your rifter. And, due to new aggression mechanics the pilot can also not logoffski to get the freighter to safety. So all the pilot can do is A; Wardec you and have his friends help him out or B; get some friends to suicide gank.
I think the new logoff mechanic with keeping aggression for 15 minutes and staying in space for 15 minutes messed with the gate/WH jump mechanic where it toggles the last combat to keep you in "combat" so to say.
As fun as it might seem, I cannot imagine this to be an intended change. It basically makes anything that cannot defend itself fair game. And it would even turn Hisec into -the- battlezone, as that is the place where you can finish your target without any chance of retaliation apart from wardecs and having your mates suicide gank your attacker (which no longer pays out insurance).
Quote:CCP I would personally appricate it if you would leave this feature in place. I know that it is very annoying trying to kill a wormhole corp when they keep jump to high sec
You do realize that the whole idea of Hi-sec is that you're protected by CONCORD as long as you don't agress anything, right?
If this stays like this it will mean that not a single target that cannot defend itself will be able to enter WH/Low/Nullsec anymore.. and it will basically remove all the targets you currently have once people realize this..? |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
309
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 07:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Hem, give a little kiss to Punkturis for me mkay?
This creeped me out.
also: It may not be intentional, it sure is logical, does the corpmate now has killrights on this WH-pirate?
-
[img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img]
[yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Gnadolin
Space Pioneers
Property Management Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 11:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
The matter of fact is, that this issue also occours when jumping from null to low oder highsec, even when jumping from low to high.
That would not be a problem if only the aggressor gets the flag, but it does not only affect aggressors.
Everytime you GET agressed, even without reagressing, you are 15 Minutes free prey for your aggressor.
Example:
Imagine you fly though low/null/WH.
You get aggressed by a player.
You manage to escape WITHOUT reagressing.(cause maybe you fly a hauler or sth similar)
Your attacker is now allowed to hunt you down for 15 minutes even in High.
That definetly seems a bug.
Carry aggression Flag if you aggress is OK, but not only for been aggressed.
|
Tess La'Coil
Starfrackers Inc
Quantum Forge
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 12:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gnadolin wrote:Carry aggression Flag if you aggress is OK, but not only for been aggressed.
Well, yes it is in a way.. because it is intended for "the Great Logoffski IWIN button" but the bug is that this carries over to systems where you have a different security situation.
And getting an aggression flag towards your aggressor is strange, because this would mean that your corp members that want to defend you in lowsec are also not allowed to do so without getting harassed by gate guns as also happens in hisec.. |
Trianta Winter
Production N Destruction INC.
Blue Moon Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 23:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
I hope this gets dealt with soon. This WH carebear is a scared bear! On the other hand, my combat alt is going to load up on cheap kills! Really, this needs to get fixed, he managed to get plenty of kills on the hole without this mechanic. It is an art really... Get them before they jump! |
Xamiakas
The Templar Navy
BRABODEN
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 20:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
right... guys you have seem to forgotten one fact.. aggression timers supposedly are according to laws enforced by concord... w-space has NO concord.. no links to neocom or anything like that.. so why aggro in wh space should be let through to known space? |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
52
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 20:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Is this really not fixed YET? (Not accusing, just wondering.) |
Floydd Heywood
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 09:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
I don't know what surprises me more: That it apparently isn't fixed yet or that there is so little complaining going on. |
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