Originally by: Zabriele

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How come space in 0.9 scurity status area is clearly not secure..yes im a newb and i just got pwned by some little jerk whos been playing for a year+...i lost everything i had....i intentionally went to this area with the mistaken belief that this area was secure..obviously it isnt..good job CCP for being misleading in the facts..and by the way i lost everything i worked for over the last month and a bit..you lost 2 accounts

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Originally by: Vistilantus

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you haven't given us enough information as to whether you were killed legally or exploited.

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Originally by: inSpirAcy

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Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.

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Originally by: Frug

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Sounds to me like someone is whining cause he got owned...

It's an MMO. Sometimes other people kill you. That's kinda the point. Blaming CCP for being "misleading" hurts my brain.

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Originally by: Aeaus

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Originally by: Frug

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Sounds to me like someone is whining cause he got owned...

It's an MMO. Sometimes other people kill you. That's kinda the point. Blaming CCP for being "misleading" hurts my brain.

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Gonna guess he put all his assets in a cheap industrial ship and slow-boated through Jita.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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..so i opened fire with my missiles..

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Ya im at fault here as well
Was mining in my ferox with only missiles for defence..vs npc..i have no skills...dude came up destroyed my can without a word..so i opened fire with my missiles..he had skills i didnt....i had 2 accounts now i dont..point is wtf is the sense of having "concord"...why should ppl even bother going to a relatively safe place to try to develop a character when some ass who has skills can pwn newbs at will..lame

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Originally by: Eilie

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Ya im at fault here as well
Was mining in my ferox with only missiles for defence..vs npc..i have no skills...dude came up destroyed my can without a word..so i opened fire with my missiles..he had skills i didnt....i had 2 accounts now i dont..point is wtf is the sense of having "concord"...why should ppl even bother going to a relatively safe place to try to develop a character when some ass who has skills can pwn newbs at will..lame

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afetr 10 min concord didnt even show up so wtf are you talking about.
He took your can to trick you into shooting him, and you did. You shot him first so of course concord isn't going to help you.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: Eilie

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Ya im at fault here as well
Was mining in my ferox with only missiles for defence..vs npc..i have no skills...dude came up destroyed my can without a word..so i opened fire with my missiles..he had skills i didnt....i had 2 accounts now i dont..point is wtf is the sense of having "concord"...why should ppl even bother going to a relatively safe place to try to develop a character when some ass who has skills can pwn newbs at will..lame

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He took your can to trick you into shooting him, and you did. You shot him first so of course concord isn't going to help you.

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afetr 10 min concord didnt even show up so wtf are you talking about.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Ya well thats kinda the point...and its not the first time its happened,so what recourse do i have..none.The veteran players know the rules better then i.BTW if ya chek GM panzers rules for safety....it says 0.5...i was in 0.9....on all occasions this has happened.So i fail to uderstand why the label "secure" is used...as it only applies to npc's....which we know dont appear in 0.9 space.

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Originally by: Mitten

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Where did they say it was safe?

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Originally by: Baldour Ngarr

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Originally by: Mitten

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Where did they say it was safe?

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In the manual. In the CONCORD warning popup that says you're only guaranteed safety as long as you stay in 0.5 and above.


That's two places, just off the top of my head. The manual's years old and not given out any more, but the popup is still there.

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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IIRC they don't use those words. They say that CONCORD can only protect you in 0.5-1.0, however they do not explain the terms of that protection.

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Originally by: Necrosmith

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Can I have your insurance money, since you lost all your stuff?

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Originally by: inSpirAcy

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I've quit EVE more times than I can remember.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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i sold everything i had minus a indy3 on one account in order to get the ferox to boost my mining rates

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: Necrosmith

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Can I have your insurance money, since you lost all your stuff?

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No you cant bcuz i didnt have insurance ergo the reason i was in 0.9 space trying to make money to pay for insurance...ergo i lost everything.And i have no intention of trying to recoup my loss from 2 accounts to get back to where i was.Characters slated for termination /accounts cancelled.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: inSpirAcy

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I've quit EVE more times than I can remember.

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Ya well if this is the norm then i wont be coming back..main reason my characters are being terminated.And ya il be sure to let others know about the obvious broken game mechanics that let veteran players essentialy grief newbs who dont really know what theyr doing...especially if following the "safety" tips from the GM's dont work...

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: Mirage Kisaragi

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Join a corp and join in mining ops if you aren't already in one.

Ore thieves will be less likely to pick on a group that way.

Otherwise, as someone else mentioned. Only pick fights with people you think you can clearly beat not off of pride your ore being stolen.

not pride...frustration of having it happen so often...and why wouldnt i think i could beat a frigate in a battlecruiser? i had 5k hp on my shields..wasnt enuff.

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Originally by: W1ck3d 8uZz

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agreed... ferox with missiles should be able to win that fight in offline mode too
Mybe it was an ELITE frig, Zabriele?

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Actually Zab there two great places to find all that info.. The Player Guide and the Crime and Punishment section of the forums. Didn't read any of that I'm guessing?

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Originally by: Zabriele

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I did what i was told by the game designers,examine the ore..it even says a great way for newbs to get started...is that why you people who flame me are here..afraid youd have to fight people who are actually prepared for a fight...ya gotta pik on people you are unprepared and unkowing...yeah hey thats a great introduction to a new game.....the way its stated it was my belief that essentially less then 0.5 space and expect PvP...otherwise concord will take action...this doesnt happen....i never seen concord kill anyone..and iv been doing essentially only mining..iv been in systems where these insecure badasses have gone from asteroid field to asteroid field forcing people to pay up or else...destroying containers and ships with no repurcations from the much vaunted concord...so isnt that what broken game mechanics would entail....theres very little mention or warning about this happening,so that new players are caught unawares....well now theres is.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Ya well thats kinda the point...and its not the first time its happened,so what recourse do i have..none.The veteran players know the rules better then i.BTW if ya chek GM panzers rules for safety....it says 0.5...i was in 0.9....on all occasions this has happened.So i fail to uderstand why the label "secure" is used...as it only applies to npc's....which we know dont appear in 0.9 space.

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Originally by: inSpirAcy

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The thing that warms my heart about these people is the same thing every time. They start the aggression, they lose the fight, then claim that space wasn't safe.

It matters not whether you know the rules or not, the mere principle is flawed. "High sec should be safe for me, but not the poor guy I'm about (or not, as is usually the case) to toast". It's hypocrisy at it's absolute finest, and yet very, very few can see past their own loss to realise it.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: inSpirAcy

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The thing that warms my heart about these people is the same thing every time. They start the aggression, they lose the fight, then claim that space wasn't safe.

It matters not whether you know the rules or not, the mere principle is flawed. "High sec should be safe for me, but not the poor guy I'm about (or not, as is usually the case) to toast". It's hypocrisy at it's absolute finest, and yet very, very few can see past their own loss to realise it.

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Cowardly? If you are paying to play a game, you can play any way you see fit, providing it does not breach ToS and EULA's.
Ore theft CAN be very profitable, but, as you may have guessed, vets have the advantage as skills will keep you alive, should the foolish ferox miner attempt to prevent you from taking the ore.
Now, same thing applies to stealing ore then blowing it up. It's just another way to play. Don't like it? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Can't handle the harsh realities of EVE? go play a more carebear game that suits your solo, "i want everything given to me, with extremely low loss potential" attitude.

Hmm..he was just one of the many that started the aggression by destroying my can or ore or whatever it was...and yes..normally when a product is described if it falls short then irl the company is subject to liability damages..obviously thats not going to happen here lol..but if something is given a description at least try to ensure it meets that description...i didnt see anywhere the description of "cowardly veteran players will try to lure you by various actions they can take against you without fear of reprisal"

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Originally by: Zabriele

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....less then 0.5 space and expect PvP...otherwise concord will take action...this doesnt happen....

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Originally by: Ash Vincetti

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I'm going to take a gander at what happened here.

1. he wasn't shooting cans and destroying them. Had he fired a single shot at your can, CONCORD would have killed him out right. What he was doing was taking stuff from your cans. An empty can implodes when it no longer has anything inside it.

2. When he took everything from your can, he began blinking red.

3. When he began blinking red, you panicked.

4. When you panicked, you attacked him.

5. If you were in a ferox fitted for mining, my guess is you had 1, maybe 2 Heavy Launchers

6. Heavy launchers are designed to kill cruisers and above, therefore you were not doing enough damage to him to actually kill him. A small, fast frigate will happily fly faster / close to the explosion velocity of the missiles and will cause the heavy missiles to not do much damage. If you want protection against frigates, use assault launchers with standard missiles.

7. He used a NOS to kill your cap and slowly drain you of life. Once you could no longer use your booster, you panicked again, and logged off in anger.

8. He had you warp-scrambled, therefore logging off didn't work. He kept shooting you till you died.

9. In anger, you came to the forums to rant about 0.9 security space not being secure. To be honest, had they NOT introduced can flagging, you would have been killed by CONCORD for shooting him in the first place. The choice was yours.

You could let him take the ore and stay alive, or shoot him and hope your damage was enough to kill his ship. Obviously, it wasn't. You took a gamble without knowing enough about the stakes, and lost.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: inSpirAcy

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The thing that warms my heart about these people is the same thing every time. They start the aggression, they lose the fight, then claim that space wasn't safe.

It matters not whether you know the rules or not, the mere principle is flawed. "High sec should be safe for me, but not the poor guy I'm about (or not, as is usually the case) to toast". It's hypocrisy at it's absolute finest, and yet very, very few can see past their own loss to realise it.

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Hmm..he was just one of the many that started the aggression by destroying my can or ore or whatever it was...and yes..normally when a product is described if it falls short then irl the company is subject to liability damages..obviously thats not going to happen here lol..but if something is given a description at least try to ensure it meets that description...i didnt see anywhere the description of "cowardly veteran players will try to lure you by various actions they can take against you without fear of reprisal"

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Originally by: W1ck3d 8uZz

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how about we all send this guy 500k or even a milion for his new ship, next time he will mine better ore in 0.5, 0.6 systems WITH SECURED CANS wich r kinda invented so stuff like this wouldnt happen and every1 will be happy?

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Hehe how many of ya have read the whole post raise your hands...

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Originally by: Taince Vohen

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Hehe how many of ya have read the whole post raise your hands...

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o/

Now, how many of the replys have you actually read and took the time to understand?

Someone beat you because they were smarter than you, so what? EvE is a harsh game, your actions, or inactions, have consequences that you need to be prepared to live with. If you accept that you will prosper, if you expect everything to be handed to you then you will be frustrated.

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Originally by: Patch86

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For the record "fight him in your mining ship" and "let him take your ore" are not the only 2 things you could have done. Most can thieves will operate in the same place, in a fairly relaxed fashion, for a decent period of time. Whe someone takes your ore, do as I do- run to the nearest dock (he'll probably think you're just running from the flashing red lights), buy and equip some frigate killing weaponry (light missiles, standard missiles, rockets, small hybrid guns, smallest medium hybrid guns, and NOS; even a warp scrambler, if you can fit it), fly back to where he was, find him and pod him while you still have kill rights.

If you're shooting at people in a mining ship without many weapons, what do you expect to happen?

And for the record, I've never stolen from a can, I've never pirated, and I've never shot at anyone who hasn't deserved it (war targets etc.). I've been gangked far more times than I've ganked, and I run security for an Industrial corp. I'm not saying any of this because I'm a vet who likes to abuse newbs- I'm saying it because it's the way this game is. Being tricked, and ganked, and generally harassed (and learning how to avoid it) IS the whole fun of this game. Again, no one forces you to play a game you don't enjoy, so if you're not enjoying it, don't play it.

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Originally by: Brisi

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You know why you're whining about this in the first place?

Because crying-carebears JUST LIKE YOU eventually *****ed enough about people stealing their ore, that the Dev's caved in and made them able to attack the ore thieves. Now all the crybabies are whining and *****ing again, because they're getting massacred through game mechanics THAT THEY INTRODUCED.


Good riddance. Darwinism ftw.

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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I remember mining in my Celestis with a group of friends once. We were in a 0.5 actually, mining Jaspet.

I was happily mining away, we had some covetors and a Brutix. Everyone had out their mining drones, so we were this fantastically beautiful target for a can steal.

So this guy in a Curse comes by and decides he wants to play a game. He pops our can and puts the ore into his.

Before he even realizes that he's the one that's been tricked, he's webbed, scrambled, and JAMMED. While I call out the infiltrator IIs on him, my backup one system over shows up in a Raven, and bye-bye Curse.

He said some words in local, then left.

Gotta be smart :)

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Originally by: Zabrielle

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...and by the way i lost everything i worked for over the last month and a bit

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Originally by: Zabriele
Hehe nice..wish there were more people doing stuff like this to act as a deterrant to these cowards.[/quote

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Zab,

There are lots of people like this. But the reason there can be people like this is the same reason that the other guy could do what he did. Unlike dang near every other MMO out there it's not the players versus the NPC in EVE. The primary antoginists in this game are the players. We all get to go after each other.

furthermore unlike all other MMO with BS artificial rules preventing player interaction. In EVE anything you could conceivably do with a space ship can be done, hence attacking in "hi-sec" isn't impossible it just gets you killed, unless the other guy is smart.

That means that yes EVE has a harder learning curve than say WOW. It also meand there are ass hats flying arrund attacking noobs, but you find that sort of low life in all MMO. It's valid play, just lame.

Finally you were flying a Ferrox! That's a BC, and though yes you can get the skills to fly one in a month or two you should not do it! They are too expensive for your available income. Also, Did you notice how you "jetisoned" the cargo to make your can? Jetcan mining is not intuitive so you must have read up on it so you should have also been able to read about the consequences. More importantly the word jetison implies thrown away, or insecure. So of course someone can steal it.

Finally, he didn't make you shoot him. He just provided you the oppurtounity to shoot him w/o concord interference. you chose to engage him and then rather than face the consequences of your fight or try to talk to him on local, you logged off. Logging off is an attempt to exploit mechanics of a game designed to shelter aginst connection loss. You thought it would save you.

The only person trying for an exploit here is you.

Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Actually Zab there two great places to find all that info.. The Player Guide and the Crime and Punishment section of the forums. Didn't read any of that I'm guessing?

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Hmm have you read them?..does it decribe this situation there anywhere..

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus

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Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 17/09/2006 21:12:49
zab.. how in blazes did you lose all your stuff on 2 accounts if you were mining in a ferox at the time of the incident?! Somehow i dont think it would all fit in the feroxs hold..

i sold everything i had minus a indy3 on one account in order to get the ferox to boost my mining rates

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Originally by: W1ck3d 8uZz

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agreed... ferox with missiles should be able to win that fight in offline mode too
Mybe it was an ELITE frig, Zabriele?

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I have no idea what type of frigate it was...i thot i would be able to win also...my first fight ever in PvP..i havent even really done very many missions.when i logged my shields were about to drop.I didnt even get his shields down.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Characters slated for termination /accounts cancelled.

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Originally by: Firebyrd

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moving my stuff from one system to another due to the 1 min timer on jump gates, found out that u have to wait 1 min after turning off your weaps to jump...

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Originally by: Baleorg

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Originally by: Firebyrd

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moving my stuff from one system to another due to the 1 min timer on jump gates, found out that u have to wait 1 min after turning off your weaps to jump...

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afaik its above 30sec

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Originally by: Goliath Scorpion

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This thread rules.

Go be that guy on mmorpg.com who reposts his huge bad review every day.

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Originally by: Zabriele

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Nah i lost all enjoyment for this game atm.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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I <3 Natural Selection!

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Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

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"Now the moral of the story is: If someone steals your can, DO NOT shoot them unless you know you can win! "


right because we all know new players and specifically player out mining are outfitted to be able to kill someone... get a farking brain. this is a stupid exploit that should be fixed. Noone mining is gonna be able to kill someguy in a combat ship farking with thier can.

Please no stupid response about how some noob mining is supposed to run to a station get his combat ship and come back and pwn the guy...

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Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

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"Now the moral of the story is: If someone steals your can, DO NOT shoot them unless you know you can win! "


right because we all know new players and specifically player out mining are outfitted to be able to kill someone... get a farking brain. this is a stupid exploit that should be fixed. Noone mining is gonna be able to kill someguy in a combat ship farking with thier can.

Please no stupid response about how some noob mining is supposed to run to a station get his combat ship and come back and pwn the guy...

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