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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
209
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Posted - 2017.03.02 08:09:48 -
[9151] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Cloaky AFK camping is lazy PvP and in affect is reducing the chances of activity in 0.0, generally the richer people are the more likely theu will take fights for fun.
Boo hoo. EVE is survival of the fittest, if an AFK cloaker in local shuts down activity and prevents you from getting rich then you and/or your alliance suck at EVE. Fortunately there's always highsec if you want to get rich with zero risk or intelligence required.
Quote:Local intel doe snot give total free intel, you need active players who report to make it work
Lolwut? Local gives free intel because all you have to do is have local open. As soon as a red or neutral enters local you click 'warp" and you're docked (or at least safespotted) before they can possibly get to you. The time to load the system, enter warp, travel to a target, leave warp, and lock a target is much longer than the align time of anything short of a capital ship. And if that capital ship is already aligned then even the capital is 100% safe.
And this is the best-case scenario for catching someone, where you magically know exactly where to warp to get your target (spy in your target alliance?). If you have to scan down a target even a brief bit with d-scan is more than enough time for all of your targets to escape.
Quote:For me the AFK side of thing where someone is inactive and hoping that people think he is AFK to be able to drop stuff on him is the height of lazy play.
Make up your mind, are they AFK or not? If they're hoping people will think they're AFK so they can hot drop then they aren't AFK. They're ATK and hunting you, and what you're asking for is a "OMG THIS PERSON IS A THREAT EVERYONE DOCK UP" flag to warn you when they're active.
Quote:The issue is taht when that person is not at his keyboard he is still impacting the play of others and yet any attempt to bait him etc. fails because he is not even at his keyboard.
Alternatively, if your alliance is not a garbage-tier waste of server space, it doesn't matter if your bait attempt fails to get a killmail, your defense fleet (of combat ships) protects the carebears while they farm PvE content and everyone finishes the job without any losses. The issue here is not that they're AFK, it's that you feel entitled to get killmails every time you invest time into something.
Quote:The cloaks are fine as they are, but it is the blanket AFK cloaky camping that is an issue in terms of negative game play, in other words making people if log off or head back to hisec to do level 4's and not participate in fighting against roams and stuff.
Again, survival of the fittest. If your alliance sucks so badly that an AFK cloaker sends all your members back to highsec then this is a good thing. The trash gets evicted from "their" space and someone who sucks less at EVE gets to take their place.
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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
55
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Posted - 2017.03.02 08:29:41 -
[9152] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:Linus Gorp as u are dumb idiot i'll give you a reason why your idea about local removal (cause it works in WH!) is dumb as ****... It still gonna favor cloakers / even better as u have tools to know WHERE YOUR PREYS are living and WHAT they are doing; U don't need a local for it, there are tools in game, out of the game etc but u don't give a **** with some others - cause your mainly reason why you play this game is to harras others. You're just a dumb, whiny little kid that has zero business being in nullsec. You want the increased reward that nullsec offers? It's supposed to come with increased risk, not 100% safe space. If it's 100% safe space you want, then the rewards have to be adjusted accordingly. That'll mean reducing them by a lot. You can't have both. If what you want is candy just for being around, candy whenever you **** up, candy no matter how ******* pathetic and bad you are, then player another game that's more to your liking. I hear WoW is recruiting. Usual saying would be "When an EVE player goes to WoW, the average IQ in both games goes up." although in your case it would go up in EVE and down in WoW.
Yeah and you want a ppl with a cloaker inside their system to brace themselves waiting hours as the cloaky guy decloak at front of them and lit a cyno so the fight can go on; As you see the guys docking in station with a neutral in system as fcking noobs ;)
Get a life as you are pure trolling as your post are now ignored cause they are just a rubbish; |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
55
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Posted - 2017.03.02 08:33:14 -
[9153] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Boo hoo. EVE is survival of the fittest, if an AFK cloaker in local shuts down activity and prevents you from getting rich then you and/or your alliance suck at EVE. Fortunately there's always highsec if you want to get rich with zero risk or intelligence required.
U are being blooked too as I just can't read that kind of trash u putting so much effort in it; |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
892
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Posted - 2017.03.02 08:52:50 -
[9154] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:Get a life as you are pure trolling as your post are now ignored cause they are just a rubbish; "He debunks every comment I make with logic and counterarguments, so I obviously have no other course of action than to reject his existence."
Classic. Surprised it took so long. Time to run some locator agents and get cloaky alts moving.
Oh, and liking your own posts with an alt, assuming to make it look more relevant "because it has now been liked", is rather lame. Only goes on to show how dumb and pathetic you are, not that I need any more proof of that.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18722
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Posted - 2017.03.02 10:17:18 -
[9155] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote: Yeah and you want a ppl with a cloaker inside their system to brace themselves waiting hours as the cloaky guy decloak at front of them and lit a cyno so the fight can go on; As you see the guys docking in station with a neutral in system as fcking noobs ;)
Get a life as you are pure trolling as your post are now ignored cause they are just a rubbish;
If you cant handle a single guy AFK in a bomber you have no business in null. At the end of the day you are demanding perfect safety. |
Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2926
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Posted - 2017.03.02 11:29:00 -
[9156] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote: Yeah and you want a ppl with a cloaker inside their system to brace themselves waiting hours as the cloaky guy decloak at front of them and lit a cyno so the fight can go on; As you see the guys docking in station with a neutral in system as fcking noobs ;)
Get a life as you are pure trolling as your post are now ignored cause they are just a rubbish;
If you cant handle a single guy AFK in a bomber you have no business in null. At the end of the day you are demanding perfect safety.
Well you may be a in a bomber, but the other 28 are not... Still made me laugh, maybe I should unblock you because that is kinda funny ...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18724
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Posted - 2017.03.02 13:23:44 -
[9157] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Well you may be a in a bomber, but the other 28 are not... Still made me laugh, maybe I should unblock you because that is kinda funny ...
I don't fit a cyno to my bombers, no room. So yea, if you can't handle me in a solo bomber when I am not even in the house let alone at my PC then how are you going to hold your space vs an alliance? |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
57
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Posted - 2017.03.02 14:11:49 -
[9158] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Well you may be a in a bomber, but the other 28 are not... Still made me laugh, maybe I should unblock you because that is kinda funny ...
I don't fit a cyno to my bombers, no room. So yea, if you can't handle me in a solo bomber when I am not even in the house let alone at my PC then how are you going to hold your space vs an alliance?
And now you gives as an argument why it should be changed; Cause you are also using a AFK Cloaking mechanic in your favor, and you even enjoy it as you "can't be touched" - GG you are blocked now too :) |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18726
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Posted - 2017.03.02 14:29:14 -
[9159] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote: And now you gives as an argument why it should be changed;
I'm not arguing to change anything. |
Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2927
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Posted - 2017.03.02 14:55:39 -
[9160] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Well you may be a in a bomber, but the other 28 are not... Still made me laugh, maybe I should unblock you because that is kinda funny ...
I don't fit a cyno to my bombers, no room. So yea, if you can't handle me in a solo bomber when I am not even in the house let alone at my PC then how are you going to hold your space vs an alliance? And now you gives as an argument why it should be changed; Cause you are also using a AFK Cloaking mechanic in your favor, and you even enjoy it as you "can't be touched" - GG you are blocked now too :)
What he failed to say is that he was part of the fleet that hot dropped , of course he did not have a cyno...
baltec1 how many accounts do you have, must be loads...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18726
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Posted - 2017.03.02 17:30:15 -
[9161] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
And now you gives as an argument why it should be changed; Cause you are also using a AFK Cloaking mechanic in your favor, and you even enjoy it as you "can't be touched" - GG you are blocked now too :)
Him being a coward does not mean a nerf is required. He is asking for 100% safety when ratting. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1167
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Posted - 2017.03.02 19:38:44 -
[9162] - Quote
It would only be 100% safety if he could do it afk.
The guy ratting, mining or otherwise doing something in space who has to remain vigilant at all times so as to evade hunters isn't 100% safe. Not even close to it.
The 100% safe guy would be the one either docked or cloaked.
Being butthurt that it's difficult to penetrate enemy space and hunt soft targets with wary pilots should not justify a nearly complete advantage to a solo pilot or even small group against the coordinated efforts of an alliance of hundreds or thousands. Yet apparently that is exactly the state of affairs.
Hopefully the OA will fix this, but I have no doubt that the devs love of this tactic is why we don't have them yet, and probably never will.
Maybe in another decade or two the current crop of devs will be replaced by someone with a more balanced perspective. |
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2017.03.02 20:29:41 -
[9163] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:It would only be 100% safety if he could do it afk.
The guy ratting, mining or otherwise doing something in space who has to remain vigilant at all times so as to evade hunters isn't 100% safe. Not even close to it.
The 100% safe guy would be the one either docked or cloaked.
Being butthurt that it's difficult to penetrate enemy space and hunt soft targets with wary pilots should not justify a nearly complete advantage to a solo pilot or even small group against the coordinated efforts of an alliance of hundreds or thousands. Yet apparently that is exactly the state of affairs.
Hopefully the OA will fix this, but I have no doubt that the devs love of this tactic is why we don't have them yet, and probably never will.
Maybe in another decade or two the current crop of devs will be replaced by someone with a more balanced perspective.
I always did wonder why goon, test, an pandemic never complained about this problem.....
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
209
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Posted - 2017.03.02 21:28:59 -
[9164] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Being butthurt that it's difficult to penetrate enemy space and hunt soft targets with wary pilots should not justify a nearly complete advantage to a solo pilot or even small group against the coordinated efforts of an alliance of hundreds or thousands. Yet apparently that is exactly the state of affairs.
This "complete advantage" is meaningless against alliances that don't suck. You AFK cloak in their space, they have a defense fleet at all times when potential targets are in space, so all you can do is sit there cloaked. It doesn't matter if you're AFK or ATK, you aren't decloaking or ever being more than a passive spectator while other people have fun. They can't remove you from the system, but they can very easily make your presence irrelevant.
The only people that AFK cloaking is a meaningful "complete advantage" against are the garbage-tier alliances that don't deserve to exist. It's very effective against people that have minimal ability to actively defend their space, and think "my alliance claimed the system and set half of EVE blue, I should be able to solo PvE whenever I want without ever sacrificing ISK per hour". But why should CCP coddle people like that? |
Orakkus
Imperium Technologies DARKNESS.
330
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Posted - 2017.03.02 21:47:20 -
[9165] - Quote
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?
He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
892
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Posted - 2017.03.02 22:09:46 -
[9166] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM? They don't care about garbage players that have no business being in nullsec but hang out there anyway. If memory serves me right, we've had whiny afk cloaky threads for close to a decade now. Nothing changed in all that time.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2929
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Posted - 2017.03.02 22:16:53 -
[9167] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?
No one knows, because we have had whiney people who want to keep their easy AFK play style clutter up the thread with pap about local, and post aggressive baloney, the devs have kept well away.
The best thing I saw was Garth Telkin saying that CCP was going to do OS's to give local in sov 0.0, at least I think it was this thread, was some time ago though, but he seemed damned certain it would happen at some point.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
115
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Posted - 2017.03.02 22:19:09 -
[9168] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?
They really havn't given any official stance. The rumor is they do wish to remove local but it so engrained in the legacy code that removing it is a difficult task.
Again that just the rumor.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7512
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Posted - 2017.03.02 23:05:04 -
[9169] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?
Oh, I've had CCL constantly doing reports as needed on it to keep CCP updated. This way they don't have to go through all the backlogs and such if they need info.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2017.03.03 02:32:49 -
[9170] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Orakkus wrote:So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM? Oh, I've had CCL constantly doing reports as needed on it to keep CCP updated. This way they don't have to go through all the backlogs and such if they need info.
Do the reports say anything new or are we just rehashing the same tired arguments? As I don't feel that this thread has made much headway.
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius
"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6038
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Posted - 2017.03.03 06:25:50 -
[9171] - Quote
Maria Dragoon wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Orakkus wrote:So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM? Oh, I've had CCL constantly doing reports as needed on it to keep CCP updated. This way they don't have to go through all the backlogs and such if they need info. Do the reports say anything new or are we just rehashing the same tired arguments? As I don't feel that this thread has made much headway.
Rehashing...AFK cloaking is almost surely rehashing. Every now and then a little drip comes along from CCP or somewhere but it is mostly rehashing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3800
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Posted - 2017.03.03 16:36:54 -
[9172] - Quote
I can assure you we are going over the same tired arguments. Everynow and then a new player comes to the thread and posts their idea without reading everything in the op. This starts the cycle all over again.
Last i heard was fozzie saying there's a good reason WH players don't whine about afk cloakers (presumably local, but perhaps also cynos). But that was a long time ago and i haven't heard much on the OA front either.
Amazed that volunteers are still monitoring and reporting on the thread. You guys have patience.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1169
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Posted - 2017.03.03 20:23:47 -
[9173] - Quote
Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.
But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players. It's why they usually don't last and a goodly amount of industry is handled by alts which is in turn why there is such a hue and cry against any sort of substantial development spent on those parts of the game.
The framework of a good game is there, but catering to the PvP crowd for so long has buried it. Maybe eventually it will see a resurgence, nearly all the new players I have ever spoken to, and certainly the half dozen or so friends I personally brought to the game, came for PvE and world building. Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6040
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Posted - 2017.03.03 20:31:50 -
[9174] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.
Maybe they see it as already balanced. Perhaps you should go look at CCP Quandt's monthly reports.
Quote:But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players. It's why they usually don't last and a goodly amount of industry is handled by alts which is in turn why there is such a hue and cry against any sort of substantial development spent on those parts of the game.
Mike, you were never going to build anything in this game. You don't have the attitude for it. Me neither, for that matter. I don't have the time for it. I'm fine be a foot soldier for larger groups.
And empire building is not in the least worried/concerned about AFK cloaking. Not one major power block even gives it the time of day.
Quote:The framework of a good game is there, but catering to the PvP crowd for so long has buried it. Maybe eventually it will see a resurgence, nearly all the new players I have ever spoken to, and certainly the half dozen or so friends I personally brought to the game, came for PvE and world building. Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay.
The game is an open classless system with very few rules--i.e. a sandbox. Whether that leads to PvP or cooperation or both (and this is what we actually have, both cooperation and competition) is dependent on the players, not the Devs. This is largely a player driven game. And the players who build in the game. They build empires, both in NS, LS, and even HS (Red Frog Freight, for the latter). It is not a game for players who need to have their hand held.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3808
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Posted - 2017.03.03 20:33:03 -
[9175] - Quote
Lol or there are posts like that baiting players which also starts the whole thing again.
Edit- as if predatory gameplay is even a bad thing in a pvp mmo.
Go on voidster, tell me how im a murderer again because i enjoy pvp.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1171
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Posted - 2017.03.03 20:37:45 -
[9176] - Quote
Sandbox went out the window a long time ago.
Sure, you can choose to play anyway you want, but there is a right way (predatory PvP) and a wrong way (anything not predatory PvP) way to play.
Afk camping is just a symptom of a much larger problem. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6040
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Posted - 2017.03.03 20:43:31 -
[9177] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Sandbox went out the window a long time ago.
Sure, you can choose to play anyway you want, but there is a right way (predatory PvP) and a wrong way (anything not predatory PvP) way to play.
Afk camping is just a symptom of a much larger problem.
Nope, this is still a sandbox game despite some of CCP's recent changes limiting areas of the sandbox, namely HS.
And you are wrong, if you don't see cooperation in the game you are just not looking hard enough. Every alliance represents some degree of cooperation. Every corporation represents a degree of cooperation. Players both compete (PvP) and cooperate.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
893
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Posted - 2017.03.03 21:15:45 -
[9178] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.
But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players. It's why they usually don't last and a goodly amount of industry is handled by alts which is in turn why there is such a hue and cry against any sort of substantial development spent on those parts of the game.
The framework of a good game is there, but catering to the PvP crowd for so long has buried it. Maybe eventually it will see a resurgence, nearly all the new players I have ever spoken to, and certainly the half dozen or so friends I personally brought to the game, came for PvE and world building. Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay. Nullsec is first and foremost a PvP zone. Don't like it? Go back to highsec. EVE Online is and has always been a PvP game. It was built to be exactly that. This is nothing the devs overlooked, this is intentional game design. Everything centers around and works only because this is a PvP-first game. Without PvP, the economy wouldn't and couldn't work the way it does. We could not have a near-autonomous economy without spaceships blowing up left, right and center.
PvE in EVE is just a means to build and afford ships to PvP in. You're playing a PvP game and complain about PvP. Nullsec has increased rewards, but those are supposed to come with increased risk. You want to opt out of any risk in a ******* PvP zone.
When all you care about is carebearing and your trash tier alliance can't defend their own space, then neither you nor your trash tier alliance have any business being in nullsec. You are not entitled to have your own space, you are not entitled to risk-free isk making and you god damn are not entitled to opt out of PvP in a PvP-centric game.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
209
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Posted - 2017.03.03 22:12:31 -
[9179] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.
Highsec level 4 missions continue to exist without disruption, giving you safe and efficient ISK making. And even 0.0 PvE that is supposedly threatened by AFK cloaking is only disrupted by AFK cloaking if your alliance sucks. If your alliance is capable of doing that world-building and successfully organizing PvE operations in 0.0 an AFK cloaker is a negligible threat. So no, disrupting ISK making is not the highest priority just because lazy PvE players can't farm anomalies in complete safety in 0.0.
Quote:But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players.
EVE is a PvP game. If you came to EVE for the PvE you came to the wrong game, and it's best for everyone that you move on to something more appropriate for your needs.
PS: all that industry stuff is PvP. You're competing directly with other players even if no weapons are fired.
Quote:Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay.
Sorry, but EVE has been "predatory and toxic" from day 1. Survival of the fittest is a primary design goal for the game. If you are the victim of "predatory and toxic" PvP then you either get better at the game, take the initiative, and kill the predators until you are no longer prey, or you ragequit and we all laugh at your tears. Coddling bad players who are too weak to be anything but prey has not been, and hopefully will not ever be, a design goal. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6043
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Posted - 2017.03.03 22:26:03 -
[9180] - Quote
CCP Quant suggestions 0.0 ratting is making alot of ISK.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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