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[Debate] Mission Running

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Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 08:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Stephar Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Haven't run any missions in about a year. Didn't think so. Your point being ? I prefer player driven content to NPC grinding, Sue me. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2006.09.19 08:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Stephar Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Haven't run any missions in about a year. Didn't think so. Your point being ? I prefer player driven content to NPC grinding, Sue me. Alliaanna You are calling for missions to be nerfed when you have zero firsthand experience concerning their current state.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 08:54:00 - [33] Originally by: Stephar Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Stephar Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Haven't run any missions in about a year. Didn't think so. Your point being ? I prefer player driven content to NPC grinding, Sue me. Alliaanna You are calling for missions to be nerfed when you have zero firsthand experience concerning their current state. #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Kastar Chronodynamics	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:05:00 - [34] OPpy, you like to hear yourself talk way to much ! Why would it be unbalanced... there are ways to make isk in highsec and ways to make isk in lowsec. why would one not have to be able to make that much isk doing lv 4 ? It provides a way to enjoy the game in another way then in 0.0. Face it, this discussion is growing more and more pointless and has been held 100's of times before. It's a completely other type of player playing each aspect of the game... why are we always discussing ISK, and not the actual gameplay ? Fact is, many people run missions... a few get insanely rich by grinding them to a ridiculous extent... but most enjoy because they logon, do a few missions, for example alone or in group and log off, without being playing for hours in one piece. Second remark... why would doing a lv 4 solo be a solo activity ? One can be active in corpchat, forging whatever schemes or plans, or simply be playing the market. You just seem to be jealous to someone making more isk. cut it out and leave the guy be. Most people that earn good are helping the game out by investing it in prints or whatever and pumping up the competivity on the market. What if someone turns it around and states that fleet battles in 0.0 make life of calmer group players in highsec more difficult ? Also, let CCP talk for themselves what they want... you're putting it too black/white. As Dark Shikari and Rod Blaine stated somewhere long ago... pvp comes in many forms... If I do lv 4 and my neighbour does it too.. I'm already earning less because of the auto adjustment mechanism that adjusts rewards and such. Add in more runners and that balancing is increased. In other words, this is also a form of pvp. You may have a lot of shooting in lower sec, but I'm not too convinced that there is more pvp there. -----------------------------------------------
Urduar UrdCorp Enterprises	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii You can quit any time you want, there will be 3 nubs to take your place. Something people who make comments like this always forget is that it's a lot easier to replace 30% than 70%. So the same could be said for all the people wanting to force everyone out of high sec. Funding for CCP employees' big cars, houses, and Oveur's Secret Project to build a Real-Life Titan (with doomsday device ) in his backyard >>>> Your opinion on how everyone should play the game
Coasterbrian Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:11:00 - [36] Move all Level 4 Combat agents to lowsec, and add another dozen or two per race. 1) Reward is in line with risk. 2) Reduces the number of people doing them so less uberlaggy systems, and people get more spread out over more agents. 3) No more trade hubs based around mission runners. Trade hubs will still exist, but the population in the systems will be reduced and the lag will be reduced. ---------- I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say.
Valan	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:14:00 - [37] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna For the second time. You can make 10 mill mining thats less risk so are we nerfing mining as well? I'm not so sure its as high as 12 mill anymore. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Valan Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna For the second time. You can make 10 mill mining thats less risk so are we nerfing mining as well? I'm not so sure its as high as 12 mill anymore. With a good setup and ship its well ABOVE 12 million. And no, Mining helps us out giving the playerbase ores. Wtf do mission runners give us exactly ? bar faction ships. Macro Miners have more use to the playerbase than mission ***s. Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Duvelien	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Coasterbrian 3) No more trade hubs based around mission runners. Trade hubs will still exist, but the population in the systems will be reduced and the lag will be reduced. /signed.
Nexus1972 cosmos operations	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:23:00 - [40] People should be able to play as they see fit. I think the most quoted figure is 80% of people are in empire. People that can only play casually and dont have the time to invest in playing in 0.0. I've enjoyed solo'ing and been in a couple of corps - they are both valid playstyles. What people forget is that if 80% of people are in empire then 80% of the subscribers are in empire. If you drastically change that people will leave, causing income to drop for ccp - end result no new hardware. And for the people that say yeah yeah eve is an mmorpg - you shouldn't be playing solo, I say this: MMORPG - Masively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game - how many of you would enjoy being forced to role play? -------------------------------- CEO of Cosmos Operations Building COSMOS Minmatar BPC's and supplying Sleeper components
Kastar Chronodynamics	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Valan Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna For the second time. You can make 10 mill mining thats less risk so are we nerfing mining as well? I'm not so sure its as high as 12 mill anymore. With a good setup and ship its well ABOVE 12 million. And no, Mining helps us out giving the playerbase ores. Wtf do mission runners give us exactly ? bar faction ships. Macro Miners have more use to the playerbase than mission ***s. Alliaanna** so... more than ever relevant in this discussion is whether you have a clue or not. you would be surprised at the usefullness of mission runners. Many are tied into industrial production and the market. Sorry lass, but I think you better try and and then judge. there's no discussion without understanding the full scope, and there might be more to this than isk. -----------------------------------------------
Kastar Chronodynamics	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Macro Miners have more use to the playerbase than mission ***s. Alliaanna Oh, and lol, just lol These are against the EULA, the mission ***s aren't. If I were you, I'd start painting a sandwhichboard with slogans and start camping a CCP office near you -----------------------------------------------
Fr3nzi Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Stephar Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Stephar Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Haven't run any missions in about a year. Didn't think so. Your point being ? I prefer player driven content to NPC grinding, Sue me. Alliaanna You are calling for missions to be nerfed when you have zero firsthand experience concerning their current state. #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. Rubbish when miners can make more isk with less effort for slightly more boredom #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. See point A If missions runners are forced to run in low sec with NPC setups then why not force miners there too, I don't really see that much difference, neither can defends themselves against a pirate, even if they start winning the pirate will just warp out as it is very unlikely an NPCer will be carrying scramblers/disruptors. Sounds to me like you just want some easy targets #No player interaction. This is true, it is true because of the current tactics some people (ab)use to kill/ransom people in high sec. Missions runners tend to use expensive setups and usually it is a big loss because of this, with the current trend of people (ab)using these tactics to catch people unaware is it any wonder there is a lack of interaction? Level 4 missions would be the focal point of meeting new people in space asi it takes a lot of time to be able to run lvl 4 missions solo. If people could safely (oh no not safely) gang then people would do so and run the level 4's in groups and would most likely have fun doing so. Till then people will solo missions and you can whine all you like about them not interacting but it isn't because they don't want to interact Pirating isn't interaction
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:35:00 - [44] RAM and other commodities could easily be implemented via a different method. The fact is CCP wants people to move out of highsec, They also dont like hubs, or lag. All efforts of which are screwed by Level 4 runners in highsec. So fix it with moving level 4 agents to lowsec and spread them out. Lowsec is not a deathtrap to anyone but the trully retarded, Unfortunatly theres a few in the game hence silly "omg I got ganked, hax" threads every week. In reality lowsec is a piece of cake, And im an outlaw with free shooting rights for all.... Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Minikrimi Extreme Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:36:00 - [45] I would really like to see the data supporting your 12 million ISK per hour for an average mission runner. I do think that the agent distribution is out of whack, when I tried to see what beginning Gallente agents I could use most of them were in .4 or below space, whereas the random safer-space stations seemed to have level 2 and 3 agents. However, considering how CCP is going to be tying mission running into manufacturing even more (T2 bpcs from combined COSMOS and R&D agent goodies) I would have to say that the devs are encouraging more PvE as the market demands. Eve's changed a lot since I went away, and the feel is definitely a lot different. I've followed the forums a lot, particularly after every big patch and rebalancing, and there's a phrase that sticks in my mind: adapt or die. That seems to be the tactic CCP has taken. Their vision has evolved over the years, and its depth and breadth is amazing to me. The difference between Castor and RMR is astounding. That they cater to both pvpers and pveers is not. Just look at the COSMOS missions-- the best of which require a lot of grinding to be able to do. I seriously doubt that they would do that for a group they were trying to force out of pve.
Minikrimi Extreme Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.19 09:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii RAM and other commodities could easily be implemented via a different method. The fact is CCP wants people to move out of highsec, They also dont like hubs, or lag. All efforts of which are screwed by Level 4 runners in highsec. So fix it with moving level 4 agents to lowsec and spread them out. Lowsec is not a deathtrap to anyone but the trully retarded, Unfortunatly theres a few in the game hence silly "omg I got ganked, hax" threads every week. In reality lowsec is a piece of cake, And im an outlaw with free shooting rights for all.... Alliaanna Hmm, somehow you missed all the chat on Rookie Help actively discouraging people from exploring, from experienced players with alts ("You go into lowsec and my alliance will kill you because outsiders aren't welcome" is an almost direct quote I've seen several times from different characters on that channel.) Arguing the case here won't do much good because the vast majority of players don't come to the forums, from what I have seen. And I think that the last couple of lines of the quote say it all-- Apparently BoB, ASCN and the Goons don't provide an environment that is target-rich enough for your tastes.
Fr3nzi Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.19 10:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii The fact is CCP wants people to move out of highsec, They also dont like hubs, or lag. All efforts of which are screwed by Level 4 runners in highsec. That is complete pish, there are so many systems in high sec space that are constantly deserted that they could move them too. CCP encourages people to move out of high sec but don't enforce it to extremes than you seem to call for. Also another point is the amount of money you get for a level 4 agent isn't directly determined by the quality of the agent but by the NPC's in the mission. If you moved the high quality agents into low sec all you would end up with is less NPCers running them and less faction ships on the market. Which I know in your original post said you wanted some alternative too but lets face it you are heavily biased against missions and I think you would be quite happy to see them scrapped and let everyone be clones of how you want to play the game Everything you have suggested as "fixes" is a way to undermine missions to make people not want to run them at all.
Thelmarr	Posted - 2006.09.19 10:03:00 - [48] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii And as to "How will highsec folk make enough isk without level 4's noob!" Urr you do realise they wheren't allways there right ? if your a casual gamer do you really need that faction fitted CNR...... No didn't think so. Alliaanna You do realise that there wasn't always 30 000 players online either? Point being, getting into any decent isk either means disproportionate risk (lowsec) Begging or being very lucky (0.0) Or doing insanely boring hours of work (highsec) Oh, and for the record, I do not run missins for my ISK.
Onin Ra Trail of Tears	Posted - 2006.09.19 10:13:00 - [49] 1. Mission runners dont crash nodes, Alliance Blobs Do! 2. Mining in 0.0 or killing belt rats in 0.0 is completely the same. You chain rats all day long without having to interact with other people. Rewards are even better. Dont even start telling me it dangerous - its not, and u know it. k. --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
Zissou 5 November	Posted - 2006.09.19 10:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii A solo single player playstyle does not belong in an MMO. And I have plenty of targets thanks.Alliaanna MMO means massively multiplayer which in turn means that there are lots of players simultaneously connecting to a single game environment. It doesn't mean everyone has to get together in big groups and hug trees or sit around a campfire singing 'kumbaya'.
Brazero Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2006.09.19 10:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Valan Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna For the second time. You can make 10 mill mining thats less risk so are we nerfing mining as well? I'm not so sure its as high as 12 mill anymore. With a good setup and ship its well ABOVE 12 million. And no, Mining helps us out giving the playerbase ores. Wtf do mission runners give us exactly ? bar faction ships. Macro Miners have more use to the playerbase than mission ***s. Alliaanna I f you really want 12mill/hr why don't you just take on a few yourself? Lose a couple ships before you return to your beloved pirating. Truth is you're just a noob and unable to do a lvl4 mission, oh and you can forget about your main char, this is you posting and whining again. I wonder why these whine posts allways come from lame pirates *******************
Fr3nzi Caldari hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:22:00 - [52] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Mining helps us out giving the playerbase ores. Wtf do mission runners give us exactly ? bar faction ships. I do believe mission runners give minerals as well from all the crap they reprocess
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:22:00 - [53] Edited by: Hydrian Alante on 19/09/2006 11:23:26 I think ccp is on the right way with the missions. 1. They removed all non deadspace missions (this missions gave more bounty and eventually a faction spawn) 2. They removed the Wolds Colide mission from High Sec 3. They will nerf the drone loot which is good for low sec .0 miners cause ppl need to mroe rely on them My suggestions: 1. Level IV Agents till Quality 10 for .5 and above 2. More agentes scattered around the world to avoid todays hubs 3. I think ccp just needs to nerf the Extravaganza missions a bit. You will only get the version with the bonus stage when you are doing it in low security space. And there you have the chance to get some fancy faction stuff. 4. More special missions or stages to give some nice extra rewards ro those ppl which are going t .4 and lower to do missions there. And like someone posted above: there isn¦t a really big risk of .0 ratting or mining. Even with a crappy Retriever you can mine 20mill isk/our while doing nothing. Infact lvl IV missions are much much harder than .0 ratting. If you are forcing all mission runners to .4 and lower thousands of ppl will leave eve. The whole economy will break apart.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Brazero Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Valan Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii #An Average mission runner will make around 12mill per hour. #Thats a lot of isk for a VERY low risk enviroment. #No player interaction. Yep thats all I need to know, Highsec agents need a nerf. Alliaanna For the second time. You can make 10 mill mining thats less risk so are we nerfing mining as well? I'm not so sure its as high as 12 mill anymore. With a good setup and ship its well ABOVE 12 million. And no, Mining helps us out giving the playerbase ores. Wtf do mission runners give us exactly ? bar faction ships. Macro Miners have more use to the playerbase than mission ***s. Alliaanna** I f you really want 12mill/hr why don't you just take on a few yourself? Lose a couple ships before you return to your beloved pirating. Truth is you're just a noob and unable to do a lvl4 mission, oh and you can forget about your main char, this is you posting and whining again. I wonder why these whine posts allways come from lame pirates Im really confused, I have helped old corpies on Level 4's in a HaC and found them rather easy tbh. Any mission you dont know you can look up on the fansites and have a step by step guide to doing it. As to not being able to run a level 4 ? How so.... Im fairly certain my maxed out Amarr bs skills and 10mill in energy turrets are more than enough to kill NPC's thanks. And I lose faction/tech II gear pirating all the time... I'm fairly confident I can afford to fit out an NPC'ing ship... If refusing to grind NPC content makes me a noob then thats cool with me, And if I was to grind why the hell would I run missions ? I'd goto 0.0 as usual and chain battleship spawns... More isk. And what are you on about on the forgetting about my main ? lol, Urr yes your right... looks at the mods /emote waves hand "This is not the bypassing alt you are looking for" Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Estelle Matsuko Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:25:00 - [55] If it¦s not one group of retards whining about how someone else plays the game, its another group. Frankly it¦s getting boring. I mission run. Why do I mission run? It¦s certainly not for the isk as that mythical 12 mill an hour just seems to elude me. I do missions to increase my standings so that I can get the best research agents available. When I get bored with missions (and it does happen regardless of the "uber-isk" people get bored with missions and move on) I¦ll go try something different, probably POS¦s, which means i¦ll be moving to lowsec. When I get bored with that, i¦ll move on again, probably to 0.0 and alliance warfare. The point is people evolve within the game at thier own pace, and you whining and *****ing and moaning isn¦t going to change that. Those that don¦t evolve, grow bored and leave....no loss to the rest of us. There are too many agents in certain systems; easily fixed....move some of them. Move SOME of the higher quality L4 agents into lowsec, and spread out the remainder. I disagree with moving ALL L4 agents to lowsec, because this is you forcing YOUR view of the game onto others. Agent runners cause lag.....that¦s possible, even probable, however they¦ve never caused the Devs to declare a ceasefire to stop the servers melting. The day CCP remove agents and missions from the game is the day I¦ll agree that mission runners have no place in eve. Meanwhile sthu and play the game the way you want too and extend me the courtesy of allowing me to play the way I want.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:29:00 - [56] Alliaanna, your post makes no sense at all mate. You are either misinformed or biased, let me get some facts for you. 1¦ The most rewarding profession in the game is miner in 0.0, so mission running, regardless of system security, will never compete with mining. With capital ships, hauling the high end minerals to empire is not even a timesink factor anymore, nor a risk factor. Implants, the best source of income from running missions besides the bounties, lose value everyday, to a point PvPing without implants will soon be laughable. 2¦ Mission running is dangerous, especially for the less experienced pilots. I can rat for days in deep 0.0 without any risk at all. Zero, zip, nada: NO RISK You can lose your ship very easily running missions, at least the harder ones, and even the most skilled pilots with officer mods can have a disconnect/crash and lose billions with only a very slim chance of getting reimbursed, while a crash ratting in 0.0 has no consequence. 3¦ Mission runners don't have access to faction/officer loot. Well, I've been hunting in Deklein/Venal for very long and never saw a single officer, but some do. I also know of many mission runners who don't have half the loyalty points to get a navy offer after 2 years playing neither... 4¦ Faction ships BPCs already drop from complexes, on top of very valuable loot. Mission runners don't have any other choice than buying the good stuff from 0.0 pilots. 5¦ Lowsec is silly, moving all lvl4 agents there would simply kill the game. I'll never be playing there while I live in 0.0, for the simple reason that being ganked while having to deal with NPC spawns in a NPC fitting is ridiculous. When ratting in 0.0 I fly a PvP setup because the rats are easy to tank, so if I get jumped on I can fight back. I can't fight back with a NPC fitting. More, I tried on several occasions to hunt down pirates in lowsec and simply gave up. They either hide or gang: pointless. 0.0 is much more secure than lowsec. In a nutshell, don't try to bend the game to your own needs, you don't see the big picture. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:33:00 - [57] Originally by: Sorja Alliaanna, your post makes no sense at all mate. You are either misinformed or biased, let me get some facts for you. Whatever brings me more targets is only a good thing, And I shall keep arguing my heart away Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:33:00 - [58] the OP, frankly, has no clue wtf she is talking about. just another lowsec tard whining bout what they percieve is the trouble with eve. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Tachy	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:35:00 - [59] How about: What do you care about what I am doing with my time in EVE? (Not that half your arguments are somewhere between flawed to outright wrong or something like that as you would find out if your researched any of them. Running missions would be a good start.) I'd suggest leaving lalaland, but that might be considered harrassment by one or two of the mods here so I will not do it. --==*-- No Thread with this ID This thread does not exist. Go back One page \| Go back to forums
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.19 11:39:00 - [60] Haha, My opinion may well be completely biased. I'm an outlaw, I want more targets. However I AM RIGHT in saying that mission runners creating HUB's in empire is detremental to the game. And needs to be sorted, Along with the risk/reward ratio of level 4 highsec agents. And to the guy who called me a tard, Petition is tempting. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!

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