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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
513
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:22:55 -
[1] - Quote
Would be great to have a module that scan pos fuel reserves, stront, ammo, and hanger arrays etc.
Hades Effect
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
16
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:29:12 -
[2] - Quote
It would also be great to have a scanner that tells me which assembly arrays have the baby titans in them.
I don't think we're going to get either one. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
513
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:32:03 -
[3] - Quote
It would add such an interesting new tactical level to intel gathering.
Hades Effect
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Alundil
Isogen 5
838
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Would be great to have a module that scan pos fuel reserves, stront, ammo, and hanger arrays etc. Sure - make it an active module that has a 15 minute cycle time. Can't resolve results while cloaked. Has a maximum scan range of 70km.
People who can't be bothered to setup POS defenses (or properly) are going to have a bad time. For everyone else, well tank the tower or RIP your POS scanning ship
I'm right behind you
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
513
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:57:33 -
[5] - Quote
Anyone that doesn't own a pos want to chime in?
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
4194
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Posted - 2015.01.15 22:04:47 -
[6] - Quote
What happens if you scan a Lab or Corp Hangar with a cargo scanner ?
Obviously, you need the shields down to target these modules, but I've never even tried to scan them, and am curious if we can.
A module that shows tower fuel remaining and perhaps stront level would be reasonable and potentially useful (assuming you live long enough to target and scan the POS in question). I would be against a module showing Lab or Array contents, unless you can actually target the array (i.e. the POS lacks it's shield). |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
513
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Posted - 2015.01.15 22:22:48 -
[7] - Quote
Perhaps there can be modules to defend against such a scan and in reverse modules that you can use to "hack into" and scan the system that way.
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
892
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Posted - 2015.01.16 01:08:51 -
[8] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Anyone that doesn't own a pos want to chime in?
Why would anyone who doesn't own a POS be qualified to make judgements about them?
And if you get a ship mod that can scan, I want a POS mod that blocks scans, and for it to be as small, easy, and simple to fit as the ship mod.
I'm ok with it being hackable. But only if I get to choose the mods placement like any other POS mod, so that it's within the shell of my other defenses. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
513
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Posted - 2015.01.16 01:18:44 -
[9] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Anyone that doesn't own a pos want to chime in? Why would anyone who doesn't own a POS be qualified to make judgements about them? And if you get a ship mod that can scan, I want a POS mod that blocks scans, and for it to be as small, easy, and simple to fit as the ship mod. I'm ok with it being hackable. But only if I get to choose the mods placement like any other POS mod, so that it's within the shell of my other defenses.
Because of course pos owners are going to be naturally defensive against such ideas because they have their own self interest in the matter.
I think a hacking option is probably the best middle ground.
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
892
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Posted - 2015.01.16 01:27:35 -
[10] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Because of course pos owners are going to be naturally defensive against such ideas because they have their own self interest in the matter. I think a hacking option is probably the best middle ground.
And the opinion of someone who does not have any investment in POS's is any better a judge of proposed POS mechanics (especially one proposed by himself) than someone who runs a POS?
Sounds gloriously self serving.
"I don't use POS's, so lets make them easy to scan to make sure I only ever bash the loot pinata's and so that stront timers are ever in my favor."
Pshhh....
As I said, I'm totally fine with hacking to check the contents of a POS, assuming you have to do it at close range to the POS while under fire from all the POS defenses. |
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
514
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Posted - 2015.01.16 01:39:42 -
[11] - Quote
Assuming I don't own poses...
But alright I like that hacking idea. Have ships that get a bonus to their sig radius/hacking capability. Modules can be used to beef up the defensive systems.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
90
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Posted - 2015.01.16 02:04:03 -
[12] - Quote
No
Why?
You cannot have a lazy mans way to determine if bashing a particular POS is worth the effort.
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Vector Symian
0 Fear
21
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Posted - 2015.01.16 04:11:30 -
[13] - Quote
like the idea plus one from me
Though a station module to counter scanning could be a useful addition
* to add we currently have 5 stations and yet still ok with the idea
I might want to eat other stations |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
516
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Posted - 2015.01.16 04:22:30 -
[14] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:No
Why?
You cannot have a lazy mans way to determine if bashing a particular POS is worth the effort.
Lazy mans way as opposed to...? Oh there is no other way really. We can guess and that's about it.
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
892
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Posted - 2015.01.16 04:34:56 -
[15] - Quote
Vector Symian wrote: I might want to eat other stations
Like you do crayons?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
To be clear: I consider scanning a hostile act. You wouldn't be able to just run around highsec scanning everything until you find a target worth wardeccing to tear down. This is under the assumption that A: scanning is a hostile act, and B, it would take a period of time to hack the records out, longer than the concord response time in a 0.5
If you want to scan POS's, you would need to either wardec the POS owner first, then hack the POS while under fire from whatever defenses exist, or go to low/null/WH and do the same without the wardec part. |

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
207
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Posted - 2015.01.16 05:01:15 -
[16] - Quote
My take as someone who owns a POS and someone who takes an interest in what other people are doing with theirs:
1 - I like the idea of being able to scan the POS. 2 - Like Cargo/Ship Scanners it should not return 100% of the result. 3 - Like Cargo/Ship Scanners it should not trigger aggression. 4 - Unlike Cargo/Ship Scanners it should take longer to run a scan - personally, I think scanners should all be time based determined by the mass of the ship. The more massive the ship/POS the longer it takes to scan.
I've always liked the idea of hacking POSes - POSes that have been offlined, in order to "reclaim" the moon without going through the process of blowing the tower up (High Sec POS bashing is numbing). Hacking the POS for info might be an interesting take.... should ship/cargo scanners also require hacking? |

Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
892
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Posted - 2015.01.16 05:22:10 -
[17] - Quote
Petrified wrote:My take as someone who owns a POS and someone who takes an interest in what other people are doing with theirs:
1 - I like the idea of being able to scan the POS. 2 - Like Cargo/Ship Scanners it should not return 100% of the result. 3 - Like Cargo/Ship Scanners it should not trigger aggression. 4 - Unlike Cargo/Ship Scanners it should take longer to run a scan - personally, I think scanners should all be time based determined by the mass of the ship. The more massive the ship/POS the longer it takes to scan.
I've always liked the idea of hacking POSes - POSes that have been offlined, in order to "reclaim" the moon without going through the process of blowing the tower up (High Sec POS bashing is numbing). Hacking the POS for info might be an interesting take.... should ship/cargo scanners also require hacking?
I would say no to the ship scanner, and yes to the POS scanner.
A ship is kind of just out there, floating around or w/e. Sure it has some armor, and some weakish shields, but that's not really too much of deterrent to a specialized ship scanner module.
POS's on the other hand have shields thousands of times the strength of most ships. Attempting to scan them should require a fairly difficult hack attempt to succeed, since you are not just "scanning" through millions or tens of million of shield points, you are attempting to force the POS to give you the information about what it has stored.
It's my opinion that at the very least, a hack should be considered an act that turns you suspect and triggers aggression towards the POS so that any defenses it has will attempt to engage you. And that this would occur at the start of the hacking so you are force to stay near the tower while attempting to hack it.
Being able to run around safe from attack while scanning everyone's POS's in highsec would be bad, unless the act of fitting a scan jammer to your POS would render it perfectly safe from scanning while the module is online. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
516
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Posted - 2015.01.16 06:20:15 -
[18] - Quote
I see hacking attempts go as such:
Buzzards, Anathemas, Cheetahs, Imicusi(SP?) are not targeted by the pos no matter how it is set. You attempt to hack the pos. If you fail, the pos blaps you either instantly or in short order (maybe giving you a chance or two to get away with each successive failure giving the hacker less time to get away.) I'd say that only these ships (perhaps Astero/Stratios as well as recons) can fit the modules to scan poses.
Hades Effect
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
92
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Posted - 2015.01.17 03:37:14 -
[19] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Donnachadh wrote:No
Why?
You cannot have a lazy mans way to determine if bashing a particular POS is worth the effort.
Lazy mans way as opposed to...? Oh there is no other way really. We can guess and that's about it. Yes lazy mans way. The current method in case you are not able to figure it out is to bash the damn thing and see what pops out. With your proposal you simply scan the damn thing and then decide if the bash is worth the time effort, in other words the lazy mans way and you cannot have it. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
518
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Posted - 2015.01.17 04:33:22 -
[20] - Quote
Wrong. People just won't do it unless they know fairly sure that it's worth the time. This way people have a way of knowing that they aren't wasting their time so they are more likely to hit the tower.
More player interaction = good mechanics.
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
899
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Posted - 2015.01.17 05:51:01 -
[21] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Wrong. People just won't do it unless they know fairly sure that it's worth the time. This way people have a way of knowing that they aren't wasting their time so they are more likely to hit the tower.
More player interaction = good mechanics.
What a convenient blanket reason for all sorts of things. Like the agressing side getting to cherry pick their fights and only ever have to wardec corps they know have extremely valuable towers up. That they were too lazy to infiltrate with spies. Because they wandered by and scanned them without the POS owner being able to prevent them.
Let's see if I can manage to find a bad idea that can be psuedo justified by the same excuse.
I propose you should be able to go into stations and kick people out of them, also instantly forcing a duel on the undock. After all, people in stations are not interacting with others in space, and as everyone knows...
More player interaction = good mechanics. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
518
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Posted - 2015.01.17 06:02:41 -
[22] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Wrong. People just won't do it unless they know fairly sure that it's worth the time. This way people have a way of knowing that they aren't wasting their time so they are more likely to hit the tower.
More player interaction = good mechanics. What a convenient blanket reason for all sorts of things. Like the agressing side getting to cherry pick their fights and only ever have to wardec corps they know have extremely valuable towers up. That they were too lazy to infiltrate with spies. Because they wandered by and scanned them without the POS owner being able to prevent them. Let's see if I can manage to find a bad idea that can be psuedo justified by the same excuse. I propose you should be able to go into stations and kick people out of them, also instantly forcing a duel on the undock. After all, people in stations are not interacting with others in space, and as everyone knows... More player interaction = good mechanics.
For you to find the tower, hack it and survive is a little bit different than your strawman idea.
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
899
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Posted - 2015.01.17 06:09:34 -
[23] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
For you to find the tower, hack it and survive is a little bit different than your strawman idea.
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:I see hacking attempts go as such:
Buzzards, Anathemas, Cheetahs, Imicusi(SP?) are not targeted by the pos no matter how it is set. You attempt to hack the pos. If you fail, the pos blaps you either instantly or in short order (maybe giving you a chance or two to get away with each successive failure giving the hacker less time to get away.) I'd say that only these ships (perhaps Astero/Stratios as well as recons) can fit the modules to scan poses.
Right, because given a threat only on failure, immunity to being attacked by the tower while hacking it, and even if you fail, the opportunity to warp off before it attacks you, there just soooooo much threat.
Hell, There's even a chance to lose a 30 mil isk frigate if say I hack, fail, and then sit there for a excessive period of time while the tower locks me and agresses me with whatever mods it may have. And if I forgot to fit WCS, and if the tower can actually hit me with the weapons it has, and it fit a point, and I can't just MWD away. Or cloak before it finishes locking me.
So scary, I'm just shaking in my metaphorical boots.
Then again, people also manage to lose pods in lowsec after fights, so I assume there will be a few people stupid enough to die to towers, but anyone with half a brain could game the system for near total immunity.
And let's not pretend that finding POS's is difficult. It's not like they can run away when they see you on d-scan. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
518
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Posted - 2015.01.17 20:50:08 -
[24] - Quote
Then have it so you can only hack once in X amount of time. Or there's a 30 second window for you to hack before you are targeted and each failure lowers the amount of time you have. There's plenty of ways to balance it but the bottom line is letting people be able to scan what's inside some of the pos hangers/modules will provide more content and more recon play.
Hades Effect
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
94
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Posted - 2015.01.18 04:12:22 -
[25] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Then have it so you can only hack once in X amount of time. Or there's a 30 second window for you to hack before you are targeted and each failure lowers the amount of time you have. There's plenty of ways to balance it but the bottom line is letting people be able to scan what's inside some of the pos hangers/modules will provide more content and more recon play.
No Why? No scanner No hacking POS Both really bad ideas.
If you want the moon a POS occupies, or you want to know what is in it file the war dec and as they say have a go at it. Not knowing what you will get if anything is all part of the "risks" you take when you WD a corp because of their POS. SInce this scanner by your own admission removes that "risk" it gets a no way from me and many others. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
519
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Posted - 2015.01.18 04:40:24 -
[26] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Then have it so you can only hack once in X amount of time. Or there's a 30 second window for you to hack before you are targeted and each failure lowers the amount of time you have. There's plenty of ways to balance it but the bottom line is letting people be able to scan what's inside some of the pos hangers/modules will provide more content and more recon play. No Why? No scanner No hacking POS Both really bad ideas. If you want the moon a POS occupies, or you want to know what is in it file the war dec and as they say have a go at it. Not knowing what you will get if anything is all part of the "risks" you take when you WD a corp because of their POS. SInce this scanner by your own admission removes that "risk" it gets a no way from me and many others.
The risk is actually fighting and engaging it.
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
904
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Posted - 2015.01.18 04:45:37 -
[27] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Then have it so you can only hack once in X amount of time. Or there's a 30 second window for you to hack before you are targeted and each failure lowers the amount of time you have. There's plenty of ways to balance it but the bottom line is letting people be able to scan what's inside some of the pos hangers/modules will provide more content and more recon play. No Why? No scanner No hacking POS Both really bad ideas. If you want the moon a POS occupies, or you want to know what is in it file the war dec and as they say have a go at it. Not knowing what you will get if anything is all part of the "risks" you take when you WD a corp because of their POS. SInce this scanner by your own admission removes that "risk" it gets a no way from me and many others. The risk is actually fighting and engaging it.
Risk on your own terms, at a time of your own choosing, after gathering as much intel as you choose to before pouncing, with as many friends as you choose to bring along.
How amazingly risky. In the same way that suicide ganking is "risky" because some random person flying by in a BB might jam you out before you kill a target.
Since you apparently have no plans on including any sort of countermeasures for a person to prevent you from scanning their tower other than relying on the scanners gross incompetence and stupidity, I'm going to have to change my opinion from "moderate support with caveats" to "No to another self pandering thread of entitlement" |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
519
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Posted - 2015.01.18 05:59:47 -
[28] - Quote
You could make the same argument about having timers on your pos. "Risk on your own terms, at the time of your choosing...etc"
Hades Effect
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
904
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Posted - 2015.01.18 06:05:06 -
[29] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:You could make the same argument about having timers on your pos. "Risk on your own terms, at the time of your choosing...etc"
You mean except for the part where the person attacking can choose to do so at a time that will push the timer into a preferred time for his own group?
And that's a timer where both sides know when to show up to defend the far more important reinforcement exit.
Not at all similar to being able to sidle up to a POS and hack it without it attacking, without needing to wardec the target in highsec, without the defenders ability to prevent you from doing so, and the only penalty for failure a timeout before the aggro resets on the tower.
Your idea had some potential, but in it's current incarnation it's all me me me self entitlement, with no opportunity for reasonable counterplay or countermeasures on the POS owners part until such time as you locate a convenient pinata and wardec the owning corp. |

Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
519
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Posted - 2015.01.18 06:26:01 -
[30] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:You could make the same argument about having timers on your pos. "Risk on your own terms, at the time of your choosing...etc" You mean except for the part where the person attacking can choose to do so at a time that will push the timer into a preferred time for his own group? And that's a timer where both sides know when to show up to defend the far more important reinforcement exit. Not at all similar to being able to sidle up to a POS and hack it without it attacking, without needing to wardec the target in highsec, without the defenders ability to prevent you from doing so, and the only penalty for failure a timeout before the aggro resets on the tower. Your idea had some potential, but in it's current incarnation it's all me me me self entitlement, with no opportunity for reasonable counterplay or countermeasures on the POS owners part until such time as you locate a convenient pinata and wardec the owning corp.
It really just sounds like you just own some bear assets and this just scares you.
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