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New "exploit"? or something else?

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Alotta Fagina	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:26:00 - [1] So now have "pirates" started using HUGE ammounts of Mines as 1. Lag Inducers 2. Warp inhibitors and 3. They fill your threat list. All at jumpin points.... WEEEE and since "GMs" says it ISNT an "exploit" this is the future for you pilots out there... 100s of Mines at jumpins laid in place by Pilots that need every little "advantage" to get a kill. Cant wait where this will go... LONG LIVE MINES!
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:29:00 - [2] Quote: So now have "pirates" started using HUGE ammounts of Mines as 1. Lag Inducers 2. Warp inhibitors and 3. They fill your threat list. All at jumpin points.... WEEEE and since "GMs" says it ISNT an "exploit" this is the future for you pilots out there... 100s of Mines at jumpins laid in place by Pilots that need every little "advantage" to get a kill. Cant wait where this will go... LONG LIVE MINES! End yourself before you call using more than one turret on you exploiting I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Alotta Fagina	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:31:00 - [3] i didnt say it WAS an Exploit... i said it ISNT! just what people can expect to meet... learn to read before you post...
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:50:00 - [4] The fact that the mines show up on the threat list sounds like a real PITA and something that needs sorting out. .. a bit like killing somebodies missiles that are fired AT you can result in a security drop inside empire space - DUH!
Captain Lugnut	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:52:00 - [5] Quote: i didnt say it WAS an Exploit... i said it ISNT! just what people can expect to meet... learn to read before you post... meet jash, an all aound exploit user, pker, griefer, and immature brat. He is the sort you will meet doing this sort of thing. Wont take on anyone that isn't lagged out, they my actualy fire back...(pirates are not pkers, pirates are trying to make money...not just killing to kill)
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.10.24 01:55:00 - [6] "meet jash, an all aound exploit user, pker, griefer, and immature brat. He is the sort you will meet doing this sort of thing. Wont take on anyone that isn't lagged out, they my actualy fire back...(pirates are not pkers, pirates are trying to make money...not just killing to kill)" ... Whoah; sounds like Jash' fresh cloning process went somewhat askew... :s
Gunni	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:01:00 - [7] what is the point in using mines if u dont make HUGE minefields? they only do 30 dmg each, and cost nothing to make... ------------------------------------- Gunni Viziam
StealthNet	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:06:00 - [8] Edited by: StealthNet on 24/10/2003 02:07:45 IMHO, no matter what people say, this IS an exploit. I don't know if that's because I work with security, but oh well.. Definition of exploit: "the use of the knowledge of a bug, misconfiguration or not intended behaviour, to gain unauthorized access, priviledges, or certain advantage over a system or systems." The jump in point IS not intended to be how it is atm. To make matters worse, other players can see you while you are still loading your screen / scene (imo this is key). People use this knowledge to gain certain advantages. They intentionally use their knowledge to produce more lag and make the loading time even bigger, enough to run out the protection timer. So, no matter what is said or not, this IS an exploit. But, if CCP considers this an acceptable behaviour, well, this is ANOTHER issue. If GMs told players before, that the use of such exploits is acceptable, then it's ok don't you think ? But if they said that because it is not an exploit, then they are wrong twice. /emote fits 4 thermal tacs and 1 VM15 and turn them all on _______________________________________________
Valeria	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:21:00 - [9] I don't really see how this is an exploit. Well, perhaps if they only cause lag and not damage. But they do. Not much, but they do. In Real-life, uu-mans setup minefields all the time in areas they know their enemy travels through often. While it may not be very nice of them, you hardly can call them exploiters. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:23:00 - [10] 100 mines do 3000 damage, so who cares? saturating an area with mines is useless damagewise, only thing they are used for is lag and warp prohibition, plain and simple. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:27:00 - [11] Quote: "meet jash, an all aound exploit user, pker, griefer, and immature brat. He is the sort you will meet doing this sort of thing. Wont take on anyone that isn't lagged out, they my actualy fire back...(pirates are not pkers, pirates are trying to make money...not just killing to kill)" ... Whoah; sounds like Jash' fresh cloning process went somewhat askew... :s Nah, no worries j0. He's just a hater. I had fun getting podded. Hatur, painkiller, Trinton and I will being meeting again. I was honestly only expecting Hatur and painkiller I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:29:00 - [12] Quote: 100 mines do 3000 damage, so who cares? saturating an area with mines is useless damagewise, only thing they are used for is lag and warp prohibition, plain and simple. IE, an Exploit. It took longer than I expected though. At the day when RUS tought m0o/Sinc how much better it is to camp a spawnpoint instead of a gate, I stated I didn't think it would take more than 2 weeks, top, before this happened. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:35:00 - [13] Quote: i didnt say it WAS an Exploit... i said it ISNT! just what people can expect to meet... learn to read before you post... What are you, Kerry's alt or something? I explained it once before. You ask a question in a manner guaranteed to get someone calling it an exploit. Oh sure, you don't actually say "Dey be 'sploiting!". You just goad the gullible into doing it for you. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.10.24 02:36:00 - [14] Of course its an exploit, just another way to lag people down... "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 03:04:00 - [15] Edited by: Jash Illian on 24/10/2003 03:06:17 Quote: Of course its an exploit, just another way to lag people down... sigh How about we end this now before I hurt myself from laughing so hard. #1 - The last time mines were used against me, the only time they showed in the Threat Box was when launched. After about 5-10 seconds they completely disappeared and could only be found visually or with the scanner. Unless that is something recently broken, this is the first problem with the original post. #2 - Mines were NOT reduced in volume when missile launchers were reduced in capacity. Currently a Malkuth Incursion will only hold 1 mine. An S-110 Siege Launcher will hold 2 mines. The RoF on a Malkuth Incursion with Missle Launcher Operations 5 is 11.40 seconds. I'm in the middle of replacing the bship I lost so I can't tell you the exact refire rate on the S-110 Siege, but for demonstration purposes we'll say it's equal even tho it's actually slower. Therefore to launch 100 mines with a Malkuth Incursion would take a person approximately 35 minutes. Using a S-110 Siege would take approximately 26 minutes. This is the second problem with the original post. The original poster is using scare tactics to get people to jump on the Exploit Bandwagon. Vast minefields in the middle of nowhere are about as likely to happen as me growing a 3rd arm under the current circumstances. The number of ships required to actually create a huge minefield quickly would generate more lag than the mines themselves. Given these 2 basic flaws, I seriously doubt the original poster has ever encountered a mine before. As for them being used as a warp inhibitor...shrug. Bout time someone found a use for them. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Sarah Jane	Posted - 2003.10.24 03:21:00 - [16] Creating mine fields. . Exploit, or tactical warfare copied from real life? they aren't called DEPLOYABLES for nothing ya know. -------------------------- <Zybl0re> get up <Zybl0re> get on up <Zybl0re> get up <Zybl0re> get on up <phxl\|paper> and DANCE * nmp3bot dances :D\-< * nmp3bot dances :D\|-< * nmp3bot dances :D/-< <[SA]HatfulOfHollow> i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet
Moses Alticpoco	Posted - 2003.10.24 03:26:00 - [17] always the pirates complaining Moses Is in the Promised Land Of EVE :)
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.24 03:28:00 - [18] Quote: Creating mine fields. . Exploit, or tactical warfare copied from real life? they aren't called DEPLOYABLES for nothing ya know. The difference may be that in real life mines hurt people and vehicles. In this game, they don't. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 03:35:00 - [19] Quote: Quote: Creating mine fields. . Exploit, or tactical warfare copied from real life? they aren't called DEPLOYABLES for nothing ya know. The difference may be that in real life mines hurt people and vehicles. In this game, they don't. dalman, just read what was said and think about it will ya? It's pure bull**** and you're smart enough to know it. If you can gather enough ships to drop 100 mines in 5 minutes, you won't need the mines to lag anyone. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.24 04:31:00 - [20] Well, a Raven with 6 siege launchers would drop 100 mines in 243 seconds = 4 minutes. But since a Raven can't fit 100 mines in the cargo... M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 04:39:00 - [21] Quote: Well, a Raven with 6 siege launchers would drop 100 mines in 243 seconds = 4 minutes. But since a Raven can't fit 100 mines in the cargo... And do what at that point? Use harsh language to get the target to self-destruct? Cause he wouldn't have much space left over for any missiles, the Raven's primary ammo. The investment to do it wouldn't be worth the payoff. The same Raven could load up with FoF cruise missiles and be just effective as mines in keeping a ship from entering warp. And 10x as effective at killing the ship. This whole thread hogwash, started by yet another JAFO that prolly got his indy vaped. And is looking for any excuse besides "I'm stupid and I suck" to explain his destruction. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Viceroy	Posted - 2003.10.24 04:52:00 - [22] anyone that thinks their opinion on what is an exploit and what isnt actually counts deserves the nobel end yourself(tm) prize. -
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.10.24 07:16:00 - [23] Quote: and since "GMs" says it ISNT an "exploit" Considering the fact Alotta says this in his first post, the title of the thread seems rather retarded. I wonder if there is anywhere in space that you can use mines without some fool calling exploit... It's like people playing 'war' based FPS' and whining that a sniper killed them from a huge distance, from a place that they can't be seen. It's what they're for. If they come up in the threat window, you should consider yourself warned, and lucky. Think of the future, when we'll have gate-to-gate jumping. If a group of people mine out a warpgate. Would that be an exploit too? can someone offer me a way to use mines that would: A) be any use to anyone, and B) Won't get called an exploit by some little screamer? .
John Zeppe	Posted - 2003.10.24 07:25:00 - [24] The point is... I suppose mines are like drones was before. For every drone, add 0.5-1 second to the loading time. Same thing about mines. That's at least a minute extra when jumping in, and they know it. Until jump-ins are like they're supposed to be, lagging them down (yes lagging them down, not trying to kill people with mines) is IMHO nothing but lagging people.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.10.24 07:34:00 - [25] whether or not they cause lag is still open to question. After all there still some idiots running round accusing people of can lag, and that's been a non-issue for months... And I don't see anyone complain about the huge amount of lag you get from a gate with 10 concord ships floating around it. Oh, wait.. that's because that would only be a bad thing if you're a pirate... which is totally unnecessary, because you can't camp the gate anyway, because of the tech 3 sentry guns, and concord can warp in and target you just as quickly as they could if they were there all the way through... Nobody minds having systems in place that insta-gank pirates before their screens load, so why is this any different? .
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.24 07:48:00 - [26] I thought everyone in the entire World of Eve agreed that mines were more useless than a chocolate fireguard. Now, suddenly, they're highly popular and cause lag. Gee, wonder what the link is there. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
PropanElgen	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:06:00 - [27] Quote: Quote: Well, a Raven with 6 siege launchers would drop 100 mines in 243 seconds = 4 minutes. But since a Raven can't fit 100 mines in the cargo... And do what at that point? Use harsh language to get the target to self-destruct? Cause he wouldn't have much space left over for any missiles, the Raven's primary ammo. The investment to do it wouldn't be worth the payoff. The same Raven could load up with FoF cruise missiles and be just effective as mines in keeping a ship from entering warp. And 10x as effective at killing the ship. This whole thread hogwash, started by yet another JAFO that prolly got his indy vaped. And is looking for any excuse besides "I'm stupid and I suck" to explain his destruction. Indy's yes. They would take lots of mines in their cargohold.. Do you honestly believe the rats are placing these mines to cause damage? You know very well why they place them at jump-in points, even tho you and/or the rats do not want to admit it. All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
Dajjal	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:28:00 - [28] and all pirates exploit - simply by being in the same system as anyone else causes lag and is, therefore, an exploit on their part to gank luvvly people like me. in fact as soon as Jash and his ilk connect to the internet they cause lag and are exploiting. hmmm... in fact every one is causing me lag. you are all gawdam exploiters techincal question... Are mines indiscriminate? ie if whoever deployed them gets too close do they pop - and if not are gang/corp mates immune as well? is it possible to chain their explosions? i never seen any one use mines. my only experience was accidently dropping 1 near a gate and then receiving a SR hit some time later when another ship activated it - by then i was in a different system. (hey! i was new...) _______________________ E pluribus unum
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:38:00 - [29] Quote: and all pirates exploit - simply by being in the same system as anyone else causes lag and is, therefore, an exploit on their part to gank luvvly people like me. in fact as soon as Jash and his ilk connect to the internet they cause lag and are exploiting. hmmm... in fact every one is causing me lag. you are all gawdam exploiters techincal question... Are mines indiscriminate? ie if whoever deployed them gets too close do they pop - and if not are gang/corp mates immune as well? is it possible to chain their explosions? i never seen any one use mines. my only experience was accidently dropping 1 near a gate and then receiving a SR hit some time later when another ship activated it - by then i was in a different system. (hey! i was new...) We all accept that ships/drones 'cause lag (not so much now as they did before) but mines? The damage they do is not worth the bother and time it takes to deploy them. You'd be better off using cruise missiles to hit your target but, of course, cruise missiles don't cause so much lag Having said that, mines could be used in an effort to prevent your AP warping you away (mines would cause your ship to lose its alignment) so I guess they'll be using that excuse when the GM's come a-callin' LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Dendron	Posted - 2003.10.24 08:43:00 - [30] Edited by: Dendron on 24/10/2003 08:48:23 Edited by: Dendron on 24/10/2003 08:44:23 They do make a nice piece of fireworks (try to blow up 4 or 5 at a time for great visual effects). At the expense of the pirates keep em coming

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