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Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:48:00 - [1] Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 16:47:56 Ok, from what I recall a doomsday weapon do about 67k damage(IIRC) Dreads can tank this no problem, without breaking a sweat...yet they cost less than 1/100 of the titan. Thoughts?
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:50:00 - [2] Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 16:47:56 Ok, from what I recall a doomsday weapon do about 67k damage(IIRC) Dreads can tank this no problem, without breaking a sweat...yet they cost less than 1/100 of the titan. Thoughts? Good point, they should reduce the cooldown on the doomsday to 30 seconds to compensate... or you could realize that a single doomsday should not be powerful enough to wipe out the strongest tanking ships in the game.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Trader Phil or you could realize that a single doomsday should not be powerful enough to wipe out the strongest tanking ships in the game. In otherwords the doomsday weapon shouldnt be called doomsday because it isnt. And no, Im not talking about insta popping dreadnaughts here. How many dreads would be needed to kill a 150 billion isk ship?
DubanFP Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:55:00 - [4] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/09/2006 16:56:20 Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Trader Phil or you could realize that a single doomsday should not be powerful enough to wipe out the strongest tanking ships in the game. In otherwords the doomsday weapon shouldnt be called doomsday because it isnt. And no, Im not talking about insta popping dreadnaughts here. How many dreads would be needed to kill a 150 billion isk ship? 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! It's like asking would a logistics cruiser ever be able to take out an Assault Frigate. Titan's are massive and very effective logistics platforms, not a ship buster. The Titan may very well pay that 160 billion back, you can't say that about a dread.
Mjala	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:55:00 - [5] one dread and a bumbing shuttle
Directive	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Trader Phil Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 16:47:56 Ok, from what I recall a doomsday weapon do about 67k damage(IIRC) Dreads can tank this no problem, without breaking a sweat...yet they cost less than 1/100 of the titan. Thoughts? Good point, they should reduce the cooldown on the doomsday to 30 seconds to compensate... or you could realize that a single doomsday should not be powerful enough to wipe out the strongest tanking ships in the game. Yet the weapon can completely annihilate a planet. Weird.
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Trader Phil or you could realize that a single doomsday should not be powerful enough to wipe out the strongest tanking ships in the game. In otherwords the doomsday weapon shouldnt be called doomsday because it isnt. And no, Im not talking about insta popping dreadnaughts here. How many dreads would be needed to kill a 150 billion isk ship? Would take alot of dreads since they'd be hammering through a death star POS to try and get at the titan
Norvys Kerens Gallente Terror Knights	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Norvys Kerens on 27/09/2006 17:03:20 Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 16:47:56 Ok, from what I recall a doomsday weapon do about 67k damage(IIRC) Dreads can tank this no problem, without breaking a sweat...yet they cost less than 1/100 of the titan. Thoughts? According to the info on this site doomsday weapons only do 37,500 damage. The ASCN Titan does EM damage with it's Judgement weapon. get your EM resists up to 90% and then you only need 3751 armour to survive it. check out the stats of the Sleipnir and the Claymore. a squad of these things would survive Judgement with a few % of armor HP remaining with just their base resists. A BS could survive a Titan Doomsday weapon but they'd have to focus their tank against it and would run the risk of gimping their tank against any other type of damage. I reckon a HAC could be fitted to survive a Doomsday weapon as well, but their tank would be extremely gimped against other damage types and they'd handle a lot more sluggishly if you had to plate them out.
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:05:00 - [9] Titans really only serve two purposes in the current game: boasting rights (which ASCN already took) and as a toy. Until some tests are done to root out the bugs in its logistic role (there will be hundreds), it's just a toy. Its limited damage output is barely a factor since that's not what it was designed for.
DubanFP Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:06:00 - [10] A dev said it did 57500 with max skills "which is probebly the case". but it wouldnt' be THAT hard to tank. But for an entire army to tank the DD would be to pretty much gimp the army against anything else. and a blast like that to every ship would still be a great tactical advantage. Though it's nto the DD tahts' best. It's the Jump Gate generator, like i said it's a logistics platform and the ability to bring a jump gate with you to send your frieghters anywhere you can make a cyno field. . . It's indispensable.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:07:00 - [11] Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! Yet they have a weapon thats supposed to be the most feared weapons of them all!1111elleventhousand!
DubanFP Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:09:00 - [12] Edited by: DubanFP on 27/09/2006 17:10:31 Originally by: Trader Phil The beauty of the weapon though is that they don't have to be there to do the dmg, they just dial it in with a cyno. The titan does have to be in-system to use it though. which means it would have to jump into a "CYNO FIELD HERE" at the system at which point it could easily be roasted coming in. but still people just don't get that it's not a combat ship.
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! Yet they have a weapon thats supposed to be the most feared weapons of them all!1111elleventhousand! The beauty of the weapon though is that they don't have to be there to do the dmg, they just dial it in with a cyno.
xPreatorianx Caldari Immortalis Silens Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:11:00 - [14] IF you put one in the middle of a fleet they should all die b/c a fleet isnt gonna tank its not worth tanking in a fleet battle.
Norvys Kerens Gallente Terror Knights	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Trader Phil Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! Yet they have a weapon thats supposed to be the most feared weapons of them all!1111elleventhousand! The beauty of the weapon though is that they don't have to be there to do the dmg, they just dial it in with a cyno. read the info on doomsday weapons, if you're firing it through a cyno field it can only be fired through a cyno in the same system as the Titan. so it's only a cross-system 1 shot per hour, 150 billion isk, tankable piece of artillery.
Coran Ordus Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! Yet they have a weapon thats supposed to be the most feared weapons of them all!1111elleventhousand! So what you're saying is that you mainly object to the name. ...
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:14:00 - [17] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 27/09/2006 17:10:31 Originally by: Trader Phil The beauty of the weapon though is that they don't have to be there to do the dmg, they just dial it in with a cyno. The titan does have to be in-system to use it though. which means it would have to jump into a "CYNO FIELD HERE" at the system at which point it could easily be roasted coming in. but still people just don't get that it's not a combat ship. Hence the POS :), in addition to being a logistics ship (huge gang bonuses, clone vat, jump portal) it's an amazing defensive tool. If someone is assaulting a POS they have their support fleet out of range of guns usually and cap ship activity is common, so they could in one swoop eliminate the support fleets leaving some vulneralble dreads.
xaix ikkul	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:14:00 - [18] from what I've read it's nerfed right now because the devs don't know the long term impact such a ship is going to have so basically they're beta testing the logistics and the weapon :)
Sebai Hana	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:19:00 - [19] Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! It's like asking would a logistics cruiser ever be able to take out an Assault Frigate. I would take on any AF anyday (cept for Ishkur and Jaguar) in my Oneiros. Quote: So you think you are good? I <3 Minm.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:27:00 - [20] Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 17:28:22 Originally by: Coran Ordus Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! Yet they have a weapon thats supposed to be the most feared weapons of them all!1111elleventhousand! So what you're saying is that you mainly object to the name. ... No, what im saying is that I mainly object to the description I think you are missing the point completely. Its not about titans being the ultimate win button, its isk vs isk.
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 17:28:22 Originally by: Coran Ordus Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: DubanFP 1, but THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING SHIPS!!! Yet they have a weapon thats supposed to be the most feared weapons of them all!1111elleventhousand! So what you're saying is that you mainly object to the name. ... No, what im saying is that I mainly object to the description I think you are missing the point completely. Its not about titans being the ultimate win button, its isk vs isk. Isk vs Isk? What about AFs and T1 cruisers then? You can't compare things solely on the costs.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Trader Phil You can't compare things solely on the costs. Ofcorse not, but there should be a certian balance. Quote: Isk vs Isk? What about AFs and T1 cruisers then? 10 mill vs 3-7 mill. 150 billion vs 1.3 billion. You do the maths.
Pottsey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.09.27 18:29:00 - [23] Doomsday weapon are not that bad even a battleship can tank them. 5 battleships should easyly beat a Titan. Well if the Titan is stupid enough not to run or have help. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Drommy Gallente DarkSide Inc	Posted - 2006.09.27 18:55:00 - [24] no doomsday weapons are not the be all. i once worked out that you would need 3 titans to alpha strike and decimate a complete force up to other capital ships. however this is still a very effective weapon. one will take out everything with less tanking capabilities than a CBC. maybe well tanked HAC¦s would survive (im not at home atm so i cant log in and check out the statistics) 2 titans would be enough to finish most BS if they both set off their doomsday at the same moment (as there is no time to boost or repair then) but it would be a close thing. i think the only way to completely be sure would be 3 doomsday weapons simutaneously. but then u still have dreads and carriers to worry about. carriers would be inb low armour from such an attack tho, so if the fleet was not far behind you it shouldnt be to hard to wipe them out. just need a few carriers of ur own with remote reps to keep the titans alive. dream fleet...... but i could think of atleast one alliance of the top of my head with enough numbers to make enough isk for such a fleet if they were focused enough. IF YOU AINT BLUE... YOUR GOO DARKSIDE INC
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:00:00 - [25] umm, i can get hit by a tempest for about 1k damage and thats with large artys obviously, how is it according to the math an Artillery can hit a tanking ship almost the same as a DD device, over 50k damage seems like it would be doing a bit more damage than that, i wouldn't say a titan is a big win button but i think it is both a logistics ship and a ship killer, maybe its just me but i dont see very many people surviving the blast of a DD, BTW how far is the range of them??
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:01:00 - [26] oh... and another thing, when the titans weapon goes off does it do damage to the titan itself, i have heard this from many people.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Godar Marak 10 mill vs 3-7 mill. 150 billion vs 1.3 billion. You do the maths. And? 20 frigates costing 3m ISK can kill a Navy Raven costing 10 billion. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Godar Marak 10 mill vs 3-7 mill. 150 billion vs 1.3 billion. You do the maths. And? 20 frigates costing 3m ISK can kill a Navy Raven costing 10 billion. Actually, I don't buy that. It's a nice comparison, but just how much you can tank a navy raven for 10bil is ridiculous Not to mention that 20frigs costing 3mil makes them 150k fitted, meaning they aren't going to be the best of frigates The comparison still applies though: I'd just up the frig cost to 10mil for 20frigs Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:10:00 - [29] I totally, completely and whole-heartedly envy ASCN for building and owning the biggest, most rare and most expensive ship in the whole game. No matter what it can do or can not do, the pure notion of flying such a ship is reward enough for the invested time. I mean its the friggin biggest bugger in the game. I want one. Better yet, all 4. It is good that you are not paranoid, yet, they might still be after you.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:24:00 - [30] What i hate about whole capital ships is remote use... fighters should not be assignable, and doomsday should kill everyhing in grid where titan is, not some pos hiding mechanics(ccp is weird sometimes). Wanna use it, risk it :), not just build it and put it on pos. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:26:00 - [31] So it can't one-shot entire fleets? So what? Even if the entire fleet survives your doomsday strike, you STILL chopped off a big fraction of their HP. So the survivors will be easier to kill... Frankly, if this thing could one shot entire fleets, it would be overpowered, even for a Titan. Due to them having to be in teh same system as the doomsday strike, I mostly see them as a defensive tool.. And, of course, the "OMG THAT'S NO MOON!!1!!1!1!1!11oneone" factor...
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:29:00 - [32] I think that fact that Capships can use certain feature via remote-control is most excellent, so you dont have to risk your multi-billion dollar toy against a hoard of 30 cheap battleships which would no doubt be able to tear it apart easily. Remote-control entails needd flexibilty, dreadnaughts are non-remmote only and they have the best tanking to compensate for that, yet they are only built for one special task. It is good that the other capitals can do various tasks thanks to more flexiilty. They are the class of the most expensive and most elite ships in the game, they are meant to be special and rare, not like your everyday BS, that is why they get the neat features. They are end-game content. That is what they are. It is good that you are not paranoid, yet, they might still be after you.
Alberta Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:31:00 - [33] Originally by: Directive Originally by: Trader Phil Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 27/09/2006 16:47:56 Ok, from what I recall a doomsday weapon do about 67k damage(IIRC) Dreads can tank this no problem, without breaking a sweat...yet they cost less than 1/100 of the titan. Thoughts? Good point, they should reduce the cooldown on the doomsday to 30 seconds to compensate... or you could realize that a single doomsday should not be powerful enough to wipe out the strongest tanking ships in the game. Yet the weapon can completely annihilate a planet. Weird. I can't say I'm aware of a great deal of flora, fauna or planetary infrastructure that has the hardened equivelant of over 50k hp. Consider a planet dead.
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:40:00 - [34] Uuugh, are we talking about the same game here ... 50k damage is huge and will probably annihilate most fleet setup ships ... all setup and most ships under CS will get roasted (fast ships might have time to warp away, but that's another story) Now the jugdement's damage is EM, which is not the best option for fleet, if we don't consider tempests, a battleship would have to up its tanking near 90%EM + 10k to survive this, which means at least an EM hardener II, a plate and a good DCU! that's 3 lowslots dedicated to tanking, and the EM hardened will be a poor choice for anything but surviving DD ... (Note for other types of damage, surviving becomes much more difficult) Now, cap ships survive DD weapons, big deal! Oh, and I've read that jumping freighters via jump portal, like somebody mentionned above, is not possible, would eat too many fuel! Never checked this though, and probably never won't since I don't plan to fly these things! ___________________________________________ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:46:00 - [35] Anyone have the numbers of doomsday weapons damage inflicted on small targets vs large targets. Once again, I'm not saying a titan should kill dreads without any problems, but perhaps they should be able to make them think twice before engaging?
Rass Tschubai	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:56:00 - [36] Well I did not find any Note how many Doomsday deices can be fittet oon a Titan. The Avatra has 8 High Slots. So can you swap in a hadfull of them???
Vincent Almasy	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:07:00 - [37] you could have all DD-devices but each costs 25k cap a pop and with a start of 74k total cap three is top. Unless you can find a way to add another 25k+ then 3 is all you need.
Phoenix Jones	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:41:00 - [38] I have very limited knowledge when it comes to jump drives.. but could a titan.. 1) Jump into a system 2) Launch the BIG BAMMER 3) Jump out? Does a TITAN have to stay in the system for the entire conflict? Its EW immune so it can't be jump warp jammed. Outside of fuel, it could be used like that I'm assuming. Oh on the damage issue. Lets see What it WILL take out. All Basic Industrial Ships... gone All Interceptors.. Gone All Assault Frigates, Gone All T1 Ships Cept for BS's and Possibly BC's.. Gone All T2 Frigate Based Ships.. Gone One shot of that weapon basically wipes out a Goonfleet Squadron. So outside of the Mega Tank Ships... that weapon can insta-GIB about 1/3 of the ships in Eve. Your problem?!?!? ---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Phoenix Jones Oh on the damage issue. Lets see What it WILL take out. All Basic Industrial Ships... gone All Interceptors.. Gone All Assault Frigates, Gone All T1 Ships Cept for BS's and Possibly BC's.. Gone All T2 Frigate Based Ships.. Gone One shot of that weapon basically wipes out a Goonfleet Squadron. So outside of the Mega Tank Ships... that weapon can insta-GIB about 1/3 of the ships in Eve. Your problem?!?!? The issue is that now that Titans have finally entered the game it will change the battlefield. If you know you might face a titan you might have your battleship tackle, ot simply keep your smaller ships tucked away in some safespot far away from the reach of the doomsady weapon. Also, as soon as you saw a titan warp in it wouldnt be a problem for the smaller ships to simply warp off.
Phoenix Jones	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:55:00 - [40] The only possibility a titan would enter the battlefield is for gigantic fleet ops. Could a titan really do a number in such an op.. yes. It also becomes Target #1 of every ship in the fleet. We are theorizing quite a bit though. We will not Truely know until we have seen it in action (or when someone decides to test drive the thing away from their pos). ---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Phoenix Jones It also becomes Target #1 of every ship in the fleet. Will it really? Considering the amount of punishment it could take. Quote: We are theorizing quite a bit though. We will not Truely know until we have seen it in action (or when someone decides to test drive the thing away from their pos). I concur.
Byzan Zwyth	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:11:00 - [42] so it's not an instawin button, it's still good enough to turn the tide of battle. And in fleet battles it seems to be a lot of ships gear towards Damage and gimp their tank. But in a battle against a titan they will have to fit to survive the the DD blast, and doing so will lower their DPS SO IMO it has a big impact on a battle. ---------------------- I fly Amarr and Gallente ships Amarr because they peow peow and look cool... Gallente because they are effective
Great Spylord Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Pottsey Doomsday weapon are not that bad even a battleship can tank them. 5 battleships should easyly beat a Titan. Well if the Titan is stupid enough not to run or have help. The Great Spylord asks if any Titan pilot is stuipd enough to fly a Titan WITHOUT the ultimate in each mod and a full set of pirate implants? I suspect at least a dozen battleships with t2 ammo is a thread. Or a 1v1 Titan vs Mothership or Carrier.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:06:00 - [44] I dont see it getting used much. Everyone knows who the pilot is. It'll go like this: Enemy fleet is in a system attacking a insert something worthwhile here Enemy fleet notices CYVOK amongst the locals. Enemy fleet fires off an Observator Probe. Enemy Fleet sees a Titan, warps out of system. Titan pilot goes "meh, no kills again". ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Twilight Moon Enemy Fleet sees a Titan, warps out of system So, even you are agreeing it is ultimate defense weapon :) Especially if that 'everyone jumps out' happens to be at the same moment some POSes are coming out of reinforcement mode. Anyway, it is hell of a defensive tool. Whether it is worth of the ISK might be debatable. But in my experience fleets are usually short of capable people rathern than having folks who can't afford to bring a BS. Then again, it is only some 15-20 times more expensive than most expensive BS setups used out there. -Lasse drooling & ready to sign on 'doomsday me' club

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