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Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:27:00 - [1] Just a quickie... Oveur mentioned System defences in his latest Dev announcment coming in Kali 2. Amongst other things. At the moment the place for a pirate is low sec and below, and I'm happy with this. But I enjoy 0.0 and hearing of "System Defences" worries me, and a few friends. Does this mean that we cant enter High sec, so we go to 0.0, only to bump into an alliances space and find they have Sentries which shoot neutrals? Leaving us Pirates stuck in high sec. Lets face it, no matter what way we look at this, no alliance is going to appriciate Pirates sat next door, and although we can do so much to escape their grasp in space... how much can we do to avoid sentries? Nothing, cept go for it and hope we make it. Like we do every time. Does this then mean that to be a successful 0.0 Pirate corporation, or have access to 0.0 NPC's, that we have to go into, or forge an alliance ourselves? This then opens up a world I wish to avoid. System defences worry me. I dont want to jump into any alliances space and insta die to some Arazu and his sentries. Thanks for an informed response, Izo Azlion. ---
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:33:00 - [2] Yeah, it would be pretty lame with sentries all over 0.0... I hope they dont let that happen. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kaiu Hinkledolph and K Associates The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:35:00 - [3] You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space? If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm ____________________ MOGarmy
Vincent Gaines The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 27/09/2006 20:38:17 Originally by: Izo Azlion Just a quickie... Oveur mentioned System defences in his latest Dev announcment coming in Kali 2. Amongst other things. At the moment the place for a pirate is low sec and below, and I'm happy with this. But I enjoy 0.0 and hearing of "System Defences" worries me, and a few friends. Does this mean that we cant enter High sec, so we go to 0.0, only to bump into an alliances space and find they have Sentries which shoot neutrals? Leaving us Pirates stuck in high sec. Lets face it, no matter what way we look at this, no alliance is going to appriciate Pirates sat next door, and although we can do so much to escape their grasp in space... how much can we do to avoid sentries? Nothing, cept go for it and hope we make it. Like we do every time. Does this then mean that to be a successful 0.0 Pirate corporation, or have access to 0.0 NPC's, that we have to go into, or forge an alliance ourselves? This then opens up a world I wish to avoid. System defences worry me. I dont want to jump into any alliances space and insta die to some Arazu and his sentries. Thanks for an informed response, If an allance fights to hold sov. in a constellation, they should be able to erect defenses for it. This includes gate sentries. I'm sorry but I'm not shedding a tear for the stabbond "pirates" who can come and go before any form of defense can be mustered, or who log off when they find out they can't leave. Right now the system in 0.0 favors pirates when it comes to gang warfare.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:37:00 - [5] Jesus christ, I hate EVE for eating posts. Summary: Alliance defenses will only be available (for a price) in constellations in which the Alliance needs atleast 3 outposts (maybe upgraded as well) in the constellation. EvE's 0.0 will not be swimming with locked down constellations.. -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:38:00 - [6] Edited by: Izo Azlion on 27/09/2006 20:39:20 Originally by: Kaiu You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space? If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm You warp into a gate to cover 15km in your very expensive pride and joy, without agressing, and the Sentries shoot at you because your Neutral to the controlling alliance. God forbid you would actually have to engage something in front of them. Major bottlenecks will become impassable unless your on the winning side... its scary. There is going to be little room left for the freelancers amongst us. Edit: Originally by: Marcus Druallis Jesus christ, I hate EVE for eating posts. Summary: Alliance defenses will only be available (for a price) in constellations in which the Alliance needs atleast 3 outposts (maybe upgraded as well) in the constellation. EvE's 0.0 will not be swimming with locked down constellations.. That seems more plausable. But still worrying. Look at ASCN. They would basically have guarenteed space. "Hey which race should I choose? Gallente... Caldari... Matari... Amarr... or Ascendant?" Lol Izo Azlion. ---
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Kaiu You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space? If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm Low-sec sentrys don't always agree unless you have a timer on you.Say good bye to anything that can't tank sentrys and gangs smaller then 15 people.Seems its all about the gank after all! --- CCP how about the pith X & A mods? "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Kaiu IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm Erm...don't expand beyond your means to defend? ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Kaiu IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias) -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:41:00 - [10] Repost of response of xeom's same question in dev blog comments... seem to cover this thread as well... Originally by: xeom Can't believe people don't mind small gang type pvp is basicly being killed with this. Welcome to the new age.Where 90% of all pvp will be trying to take a station from another alliance.No more outing of just going and killing sh**. Nope you must blob. personally hope that you are wrong... would be very sad if this was the case. yes - it seem like 'player empire' are going to get stronger... but with that come a new 'sense of security' and 'carebear blob' that will take place in the heart of 0.0. these 'islands' will provide targets like never before, and imagine (hope) that it will be near impossible for alliances to build more then small 'islands' (logistics). if anything - there will be more fat targets... not less for the small gang, and solo pvper. IWHO of course... if you are right - then __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now Stealth Bomber Tweaks
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:41:00 - [11] Ozawi its not expanding beyond your means to defend that is an issue. Pirates can come in, gank, then log. Explain how you defend that please? -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:41:00 - [12] Well he has a point and it does change the types of ships you can fly in 0.0 ATM a small intercepter/AF/Frig/Cruiser gang can be quite effective as there are no sentry guns, if Alliances can just setup guns in any system the have soverenty in then you need BC/BS or damm well fit cruisers to tank the guns while you shoot the locals. I am in favior of guns in outpost systems, and maybe even gate guns that only fire if the person is flaged as a war target or for aggression. Other than that it would just ruin some of the fun gank squads and just add to the blob mentality. Vote NO on blobs!
Kaiu Hinkledolph and K Associates The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:41:00 - [13] Then use of logistics or tactics involving letting the gates agress your BS/CS or whatever first whilst the rest of you jump in and warp to a ss? ____________________ MOGarmy
Vincent Gaines The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:42:00 - [14] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 27/09/2006 20:44:16 Originally by: Izo Azlion Edited by: Izo Azlion on 27/09/2006 20:39:20 Originally by: Kaiu You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space? If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm You warp into a gate to cover 15km in your very expensive pride and joy, without agressing, and the Sentries shoot at you because your Neutral to the controlling alliance. God forbid you would actually have to engage something in front of them. Major bottlenecks will become impassable unless your on the winning side... its scary. There is going to be little room left for the freelancers amongst us. Edit: Originally by: Marcus Druallis Jesus christ, I hate EVE for eating posts. Summary: Alliance defenses will only be available (for a price) in constellations in which the Alliance needs atleast 3 outposts (maybe upgraded as well) in the constellation. EvE's 0.0 will not be swimming with locked down constellations.. That seems more plausable. But still worrying. Look at ASCN. They would basically have guarenteed space. "Hey which race should I choose? Gallente... Caldari... Matari... Amarr... or Ascendant?" Lol so... those that have put months, clones, ships, and ISK into territory shouldn't be able to defend it against a WCS fitted chicken**** pirates who pop in, hit a barge, then leave without even looting the can? see, it takes 2 minutes to place a bubble, usually a few minuts to assess a threat and respond. by that time the usual stabbabond has either run away or logged off in the system, usually for 12-24 hours or more. there is no defense for an outpost system at the moment.
Kaiu Hinkledolph and K Associates The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Izo Azlion Edited That seems more plausable. But still worrying. Look at ASCN. They would basically have guarenteed space. "Hey which race should I choose? Gallente... Caldari... Matari... Amarr... or Ascendant?" Lol Why shouldnt ASCN be allowed/able to? They've done all the hard work, hell i consider them a Faction themselves right now pretty much anyway You chose the lone man, freelancer or whatever you want to call it path, the other few thousand chose to work for the greater interests and claim a large region of space ____________________ MOGarmy
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:43:00 - [16] You guys are seriously forgetting that Alliance are not going to be able to throw these defenses up in just ANY system they have sov in. -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Kaiu Then use of logistics or tactics involving letting the gates agress your BS/CS or whatever first whilst the rest of you jump in and warp to a ss? We're a ***** squad of Pirates, we have one fast scout in most gangs, as does any roaming Piracy or gank squad, having a Domi scout is like having a Truck in an F1 race. Then we warp back and have to get to the gate before it cycles to us? Mmm nasty. That said, if its directed at war targets and agressors only, as mentoned above then its a little more acceptable. Izo Azlion. ---
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Kaiu IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias) You do know this is going to lead to more blobing.So much for small pvp engagements.And it will be those blobing pirates that continue to lock down you constellation because you can't defend it. --- CCP how about the pith X & A mods? "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:45:00 - [19] ^ thats me, posted with alt by accident -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Kent Druall	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:45:00 - [20] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Kaiu IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias) You do know this is going to lead to more blobing.So much for small pvp engagements.And it will be those blobing pirates that continue to lock down you constellation because you can't defend it. I think you have the wrong idea. Blobs are much easier to defend against than solo WCS-fitted cowards who log off after a kill...
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ozawi its not expanding beyond your means to defend that is an issue. Pirates can come in, gank, then log. Explain how you defend that please? Anyone can go anywhere, gank, and log. Static turret defenses aren't the cure for that. Looking at logouts is. Being fairly new here, I see very little opportunity to squeeze into 0.0 space that isn't already claimed by a big alliance. There are tons of 0.0 space that isn't used, but big alliances overexpand and get fatter than is necessary. If these static defenses go in, it'll do even more to hurt the possibilty of new players/corps/alliances from trying to stake a little claim in 0.0. So no, that argument doesn't hold water from this end. ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Vincent Gaines The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:46:00 - [22] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Kaiu IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias) You do know this is going to lead to more blobing.So much for small pvp engagements.And it will be those blobing pirates that continue to lock down you constellation because you can't defend it. they can't be defended because of the continued use of WCS, or those "pirates" haul ass out after 1 kill, usually not even looting the can. yeah, those freelancers are so cool and lock the place down
Tate Iceni Caldari Iceni Combat and Logistical Support	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:47:00 - [23] Think its fair to say that this is of concern to everyone neutral who enters an alliance held 0.0 system; not just Pirates. Considering that everyone is expected to make a move into 0.0 at some point; the worst case scenario that every alliance pops up defences everywhere and prevents anyone neutral sneaking into their space is quite worrying. I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:47:00 - [24] in some ways i fear system defenses might render interceptors/frigs for solo/small group pvp in 0.0 quite useless. as they can't tank sentries that well ... also instas become more needed than before (who wants to approach a gate in a paperthin ship while beeing shot by sentries??) imho it will make the game even more static than it allready is ... i doubt you'll often see then smaller gangs roaming around - either a big blob of ships .. or no ship at all ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:49:00 - [25] Just curious - this is for the players complaining about pirates popping a freighter then leaving: *Maybe send a combat escort with your cargo haulers? Am I missing something obvious? ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Tate Iceni I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest! It's called other players fighting back in my opinion... If you dont want allow Alliance to take space, claim it yourself. -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Kaiu Hinkledolph and K Associates The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:50:00 - [27] OK i think ppl are misunderstanding how the sentries will be setup.. Firstly i am pretty certain that there will be point defenses at outposts(?) so this isnt an issue to pirates. But for gate defenses, i imagined them to be 'inside' the system... EG. Outpost system XYZ, your inty gang warps to the XYZ gate, NO sentries there... you jump into XYZ, couple of secs the gates start targetting you... You are saying that you cannot warp away once in system to avoid these sentries..? If anything imo it will play out that the sentries simply help to FIGHT blobs, large enemy fleets coming in system, as you can have a little extra punch with your fleet at the gate camp ____________________ MOGarmy
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Ozawi Just curious - this is for the players complaining about pirates popping a freighter then leaving: Maybe send a combat escort with your cargo haulers? Am I missing something obvious? Did you even read? -- Originally by:* Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
Vincent Gaines The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:51:00 - [29] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 27/09/2006 20:51:45 Originally by: Tate Iceni Think its fair to say that this is of concern to everyone neutral who enters an alliance held 0.0 system; not just Pirates. Considering that everyone is expected to make a move into 0.0 at some point; the worst case scenario that every alliance pops up defences everywhere and prevents anyone neutral sneaking into their space is quite worrying. I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest! first, the released info states 1) constellation sov has to be held, and probably for a long period of time 2) the sentry guns will not be invincible, they can be destroyed 3) it's not as though you can't run FROM them in your stabbabond, and even going through on an insta will be fine. but now it makes a system SOMEWHAT defendable from cowardly 'pirates' who log or WCS out of anything that resembles a threat. oh, and some corps that dictor an oupost undock point... that's lame as hell.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:52:00 - [30] /Marcus Druallis slaps five with Vincent! -- Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?

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