Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Just a quickie...

Oveur mentioned System defences in his latest Dev announcment coming in Kali 2. Amongst other things.

At the moment the place for a pirate is low sec and below, and I'm happy with this. But I enjoy 0.0 and hearing of "System Defences" worries me, and a few friends. Does this mean that we cant enter High sec, so we go to 0.0, only to bump into an alliances space and find they have Sentries which shoot neutrals? Leaving us Pirates stuck in high sec.

Lets face it, no matter what way we look at this, no alliance is going to appriciate Pirates sat next door, and although we can do so much to escape their grasp in space... how much can we do to avoid sentries? Nothing, cept go for it and hope we make it. Like we do every time.

Does this then mean that to be a successful 0.0 Pirate corporation, or have access to 0.0 NPC's, that we have to go into, or forge an alliance ourselves? This then opens up a world I wish to avoid.

System defences worry me. I dont want to jump into any alliances space and insta die to some Arazu and his sentries.

Thanks for an informed response,

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Originally by: Kaiu

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You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space?

If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses

IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Jesus christ, I hate EVE for eating posts. Summary:

Alliance defenses will only be available (for a price) in constellations in which the Alliance needs atleast 3 outposts (maybe upgraded as well) in the constellation. EvE's 0.0 will not be swimming with locked down constellations..

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Originally by: Kaiu

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You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space?

If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses

IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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Originally by: Kaiu

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IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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Originally by: Kaiu

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IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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Originally by: xeom

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Can't believe people don't mind small gang type pvp is basicly being killed with this.

Welcome to the new age.Where 90% of all pvp will be trying to take a station from another alliance.No more outing of just going and killing sh**.

Nope you must blob.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Edited by: Izo Azlion on 27/09/2006 20:39:20

Originally by: Kaiu

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You fight the sentries currently in low sec, how would this change (dependant on mechanics) when entering alliance space?

If these MASSIVE alliances organize themselves so damn well in 0,0 and claim areas/regions for themselves, i see it only fair they should be able to errect point defenses

IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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You warp into a gate to cover 15km in your very expensive pride and joy, without agressing, and the Sentries shoot at you because your Neutral to the controlling alliance. God forbid you would actually have to engage something in front of them.

Major bottlenecks will become impassable unless your on the winning side... its scary. There is going to be little room left for the freelancers amongst us.

Edit:

Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Jesus christ, I hate EVE for eating posts. Summary:

Alliance defenses will only be available (for a price) in constellations in which the Alliance needs atleast 3 outposts (maybe upgraded as well) in the constellation. EvE's 0.0 will not be swimming with locked down constellations..

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That seems more plausable. But still worrying. Look at ASCN. They would basically have guarenteed space. "Hey which race should I choose? Gallente... Caldari... Matari... Amarr... or Ascendant?"

Lol

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Edited
That seems more plausable. But still worrying. Look at ASCN. They would basically have guarenteed space. "Hey which race should I choose? Gallente... Caldari... Matari... Amarr... or Ascendant?"

Lol

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Originally by: Kaiu

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Then use of logistics or tactics involving letting the gates agress your BS/CS or whatever first whilst the rest of you jump in and warp to a ss?

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Kaiu

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IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias)

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Originally by: xeom

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Kaiu

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IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias)

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You do know this is going to lead to more blobing.So much for small pvp engagements.And it will be those blobing pirates that continue to lock down you constellation because you can't defend it.

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Ozawi its not expanding beyond your means to defend that is an issue. Pirates can come in, gank, then log. Explain how you defend that please?

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Originally by: xeom

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Kaiu

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IMO defense of space is ridiculously hard atm

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QFT imo. A couple of pirates can come in and lock down whole constellations at a time before the Alliance fields together a response team. I would think, after an Alliance has set up itself and survived in 0.0, that they would have better ways to defend themselves. (Maybe I'm bias)

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You do know this is going to lead to more blobing.So much for small pvp engagements.And it will be those blobing pirates that continue to lock down you constellation because you can't defend it.

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Originally by: Tate Iceni

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I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!

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Originally by: Ozawi

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Just curious - this is for the players complaining about pirates popping a freighter then leaving:

*Maybe send a combat escort with your cargo haulers?


Am I missing something obvious?

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Originally by: Tate Iceni

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Think its fair to say that this is of concern to everyone neutral who enters an alliance held 0.0 system; not just Pirates.

Considering that everyone is expected to make a move into 0.0 at some point; the worst case scenario that every alliance pops up defences everywhere and prevents anyone neutral sneaking into their space is quite worrying.

I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Tate Iceni

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I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!

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It's called other players fighting back in my opinion... If you dont want allow Alliance to take space, claim it yourself.

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Did pirates of the high seas hold up ships outside fortified ports? No.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Tate Iceni

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I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!

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It's called other players fighting back in my opinion... If you dont want allow Alliance to take space, claim it yourself.

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I dont want to claim it. I dont want the logistics nightmares that have to be organised, its already bad enough having to haul ships into Low sec. I want to raid it, run in, get what profit I can, and get out preferably without losing my ship and pod. I expect player resistance. I expect them to shoot at me and try and scan me out. I dont expect to be erased by some Sentry gun.

Nor does a Alliance members alt, perhaps set to Neutral hauling stuff down.

Also, this could cut off alliances that are not next to Empire... interesting thought.

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no, here's what happens.

defending alliance is in the system, ratting, mining, whatever.

'pirate' in stabbed ship comes in, flys out and nails a ratting raven. then the 'pirate' safespots.

if you lock the system down with bubbles, the 'pirate' logs off, or jumps safespot to safespot for aggro to go and then logs. with WCS fitted and jumping around SS's scanning out does nothing, especially when they log.


or, they just insta out and leave, leading to a 10 jump chase which is boring as hell.

90% of 'pirate' incursions they don't get anything but a killmail. it's sad, actually.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Tate Iceni

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I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!

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It's called other players fighting back in my opinion... If you dont want allow Alliance to take space, claim it yourself.

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I dont want to claim it. I dont want the logistics nightmares that have to be organised, its already bad enough having to haul ships into Low sec. I want to raid it, run in, get what profit I can, and get out preferably without losing my ship and pod. I expect player resistance. I expect them to shoot at me and try and scan me out. I dont expect to be erased by some Sentry gun.

Nor does a Alliance members alt, perhaps set to Neutral hauling stuff down.

Also, this could cut off alliances that are not next to Empire... interesting thought.

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Ozawi

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Just curious - this is for the players complaining about pirates popping a freighter then leaving:

*Maybe send a combat escort with your cargo haulers?


Am I missing something obvious?

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Did you even read?

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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ganking a single ship and running away isn't warfare

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Edited by: Izo Azlion on 27/09/2006 20:56:32

Originally by: Butter Dog

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Did pirates of the high seas hold up ships outside fortified ports? No.

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Yes.

Edward "Blackbeard" Teach.

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Originally by: Kaiu

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EG. Outpost system XYZ, your inty gang warps to the XYZ gate, NO sentries there... you jump into XYZ, couple of secs the gates start targetting you...

You are saying that you cannot warp away once in system to avoid these sentries..?

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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ganking a single ship and running away isn't warfare

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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I don't understand how you "pirates" are not understanding exactly how much damn isk goes into developing a constellation to be able to do something like this. Your so cowardly your already complaining about things that have yet to happen! Nothing we say here is going to effect CCP at all, I'm going to dinner, argue to your hearts content.

/me fits WCS and flees the argument, unscathed.

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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No, its called 'use your brain'. No more blindly walking into an Alliances space with a couple of Stababonds thinking you are invincible because you can (and will) just log off if things look unfavourable.

Use the map. Think about their travel routes. Go to areas without constellation sov... its really not difficult when you think about it.

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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No, its called 'use your brain'. No more blindly walking into an Alliances space with a couple of Stababonds thinking you are invincible because you can (and will) just log off if things look unfavourable.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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ganking a single ship and running away isn't warfare

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Having node drops isnt either, though...

There has to be a happy medium somewhere :/

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Originally by: xeom

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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Yep so basicly there should be no other tpye of pvp bt blob warfare.It's either taking away space or nothing!

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ganking a single ship and running away isn't warfare

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Thats exactly whats going to happen with sentrys.Huge pirate blobs of 10+ of just ganking you sh** and runing.Looking foward to thate eh?

Personal i like small 1v1 and small scale warfare.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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a stabbond vs a mining barge is not 1v1 either.

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BTW the last month ive been flying a claw with no stabs.And engaging NPCing battleships all kinds domis geddons raven.Guess how many had stabs and warped vs just 1 claw?

Yep we here at veto are clearly the cowards.
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CCP how about the pith X & A mods?
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga

Originally by: xeom

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I'd be more then happy to pay a few billion for something that doesn't let sentrys attack me!

Sence its all about how much isk you have!

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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I love going on roaming gangs looking for trouble also... but this is about station defense


I think we agree on things but see the reason as different. I don't want to go into hostile space in my crow and get popped by sentries either, especially if they do it in a pipe system. But on the other hand, there are cheap gank tricks used against outpost held systems that leave the outpost holder with no way to counter.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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BTW the last month ive been flying a claw with no stabs.And engaging NPCing battleships all kinds domis geddons raven.Guess how many had stabs and warped vs just 1 claw?

Yep we here at veto are clearly the cowards.

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some run 1 WCS on a ratting ship so they can chain spawns.

our corp has a no WCS policy except for travel.. and even then most don't use it.

and again, read my posts- I've never came across a stabbed veto pilot, I'm referring to other 'pirates.'

however my point stands, 3 vagabonds should not be able to lock down a system just because they use stabs and nanos and run away or log.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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We are Pirates. We dont fight fair, and we dont care how much ISK we destroy.

But you will not say we are cowards.

Have a nice dinner.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Noted, and I appriciate your recognition of this. I do of course realise that many Pirates do gank and log, and thus they are not pirates, merely gankers...

Theres a fine line between what we do and what others do, but it is there, and we - being Pirates - strongly believe in it, which is why we sometimes post quite strongly.

We dont mean any harm by what we say.

Back to topic, What scared us was every system in alliance space having 2 sentry guns per gate, plus their alliance defending ships. Its all to come, and we cant tell CCP what to do, but you (Being everyone that isnt a Pirate, in particular, or jus random neutrals) can surely see why we worry.

We're already restricted from High sec... Be a bit bad to be restricted from 0.0 too!

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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BTW the last month ive been flying a claw with no stabs.And engaging NPCing battleships all kinds domis geddons raven.Guess how many had stabs and warped vs just 1 claw?

Yep we here at veto are clearly the cowards.

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some run 1 WCS on a ratting ship so they can chain spawns.

our corp has a no WCS policy except for travel.. and even then most don't use it.

and again, read my posts- I've never came across a stabbed veto pilot, I'm referring to other 'pirates.'

however my point stands, 3 vagabonds should not be able to lock down a system just because they use stabs and nanos and run away or log.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Noted, and I appriciate your recognition of this. I do of course realise that many Pirates do gank and log, and thus they are not pirates, merely gankers...

Theres a fine line between what we do and what others do, but it is there, and we - being Pirates - strongly believe in it, which is why we sometimes post quite strongly.

We dont mean any harm by what we say.

Back to topic, What scared us was every system in alliance space having 2 sentry guns per gate, plus their alliance defending ships. Its all to come, and we cant tell CCP what to do, but you (Being everyone that isnt a Pirate, in particular, or jus random neutrals) can surely see why we worry.

We're already restricted from High sec... Be a bit bad to be restricted from 0.0 too!

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Originally by: Kiriz Zule

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My counter point would be...

Any alliance that cannot deal with 3 vagabonds should not be able to throw isk at the problem via AI sentry guns with hopes that it will go away. Which, by the way in the case of 3 vagas, it won't cause vagas will be fast enough to avoid the sents anyways so you will still be in docknloglockdown when they enter the system.

The problem you describe is not about sentries or cowardly pirates at all.. It's about poor organization, lethargic play and the alliance mentality of everyone npc and get rich while no one defends. What you really need is an automatic sensor beacon for your alliance setup completely surrounding your space that puts out an alliance wide broadcast similar to the following.

/eve chick voice on

Greetings MegaAlliance

There are 3 cowardly vagabonds approaching. They entered from gate a and exited thru gate b. Outpost system C is their likley destination. I suggest you put a dictor bubble on gate d and get some people with scrams and webs to lock them down and kill them when they jump in.

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Originally by: Coran Ordus

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I think the sentry guns should lean towards the expensive/fragile side. (A bit, don't want to make them totally useless.) The idea being that an alliance would put some up in key/home systems that are busy, so that the guns would provide them an edge in holding them and keeping them secure. But the cost/destructability would deter them from being just tossed around everywhere.

So yes, pirates would have a harder time slipping into main systems, but roving around and/or ganking travellers would be mostly unaffected.

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Originally by: Locke DieDrake

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Each constellation should have a hard limit of the number of sentry guns that are placeable there. No matter what.

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Originally by: xeom

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You wan't to sit behind a fort and NPC+Mine i want to pvp.So clearly there should be a option on my side to eh?

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Originally by: Gorion Wassenar

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All I hear is

"OMG I can't come and go as I please in someone's claimed territory that they spent endless anounts of effort to get!"

They are *not* going to be the WTFPWN Empire sentries. Get a grip guys.

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Originally by: Gorion Wassenar

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Ignorant? Who's the one asuming they will be the Empire level guns? I am pretty sure that they are not going to be anywhere near as powerful as the POS guns or Empire Sentries. I am making a guess here that they will be something along the lines of Sentry drones in terms of damage and HP.

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!

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Originally by: shadyfox99

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First, I love how the people who make 100 man blobs call the people who engage against the odds the cowards. (I am speaking from only my personal expereince, with my corp. Again i'm not saying no one in snigg flys vagas, but we hardly, form my knowledge, come, gank, and log). I understand your frustration with someone who comes, kills, then logs, thats different and like it was said before that is not piracy.

I've never flown a vaga, and i've never pvp'ed with stabs, so when I can go somewhere, kill and 'try' to loot the cargo, and get out, how is that unfair? Its not my fault that an entire alliance can't stop me. Putting up sentries, wherever it is, is only going to make me go towards using really fast, stabbed up ships, so i can get through the sentries.

I think it would make sense to be able to put sentries around an outpost (even though they are invulnerable anyway) but putting sentries on gates is nerfing piracy too much. Alliances SHOULD be vulnerable to small gangs or even single pilots.

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Originally by: shadyfox99

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First, I love how the people who make 100 man blobs call the people who engage against the odds the cowards. (I am speaking from only my personal expereince, with my corp. Again i'm not saying no one in snigg flys vagas, but we hardly, form my knowledge, come, gank, and log). I understand your frustration with someone who comes, kills, then logs, thats different and like it was said before that is not piracy.

I've never flown a vaga, and i've never pvp'ed with stabs, so when I can go somewhere, kill and 'try' to loot the cargo, and get out, how is that unfair? Its not my fault that an entire alliance can't stop me. Putting up sentries, wherever it is, is only going to make me go towards using really fast, stabbed up ships, so i can get through the sentries.

I think it would make sense to be able to put sentries around an outpost (even though they are invulnerable anyway) but putting sentries on gates is nerfing piracy too much. Alliances SHOULD be vulnerable to small gangs or even single pilots.

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!

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Originally by: Locke DieDrake

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But understand that from my perspective, Snig is just as annoying and pointless as Burn eden. The only differance being that Snig doesn't log when we come to fight. They simply run. What is the differance?

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Marcus Druallis

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Originally by: Tate Iceni

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I assume that CCP will put some sort of controls in order to prevent alliances from closing off huge tracts of space to everyone else; but some clarification over the requirments and limitations of gate controls and sentries would be welcome if only to put our minds at rest!

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It's called other players fighting back in my opinion... If you dont want allow Alliance to take space, claim it yourself.

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I dont want to claim it. I dont want the logistics nightmares that have to be organised, its already bad enough having to haul ships into Low sec. I want to raid it, run in, get what profit I can, and get out preferably without losing my ship and pod. I expect player resistance. I expect them to shoot at me and try and scan me out. I dont expect to be erased by some Sentry gun.

Nor does a Alliance members alt, perhaps set to Neutral hauling stuff down.

Also, this could cut off alliances that are not next to Empire... interesting thought.

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no, here's what happens.

defending alliance is in the system, ratting, mining, whatever.

'pirate' in stabbed ship comes in, flys out and nails a ratting raven. then the 'pirate' safespots.

if you lock the system down with bubbles, the 'pirate' logs off, or jumps safespot to safespot for aggro to go and then logs. with WCS fitted and jumping around SS's scanning out does nothing, especially when they log.


or, they just insta out and leave, leading to a 10 jump chase which is boring as hell.

90% of 'pirate' incursions they don't get anything but a killmail. it's sad, actually.

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Originally by: Crucifier

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What i find really sad in here, is the ******* hypocrit ****s here.. ISS and ASCN, you are more stab*****s than burn eden, hell im a more stab***** than burn eden, since burn eden barely use stabs. But you guys, every ship, each and every1 one, has a stab. SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT "BUHU THEY'RE BETTER THAN US, MUST BE BECAUSE THEY USE STABS BUHUHU" Im so sick and tired of hearing you nubs whine about it when you use it way more than any1 else. ******* hypocrits

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Originally by: Crucifier

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What i find really sad in here, is the ******* hypocrit ****s here.. ISS and ASCN, you are more stab*****s than burn eden, hell im a more stab***** than burn eden, since burn eden barely use stabs. But you guys, every ship, each and every1 one, has a stab. SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT "BUHU THEY'RE BETTER THAN US, MUST BE BECAUSE THEY USE STABS BUHUHU" Im so sick and tired of hearing you nubs whine about it when you use it way more than any1 else. ******* hypocrits

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Originally by: Onin Ra

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am i the only one finding it ironic that certain carebear alliances syaing "cowardly pirates" ?
I mean have you ever seen an alliance that brings equal force to deal with intruders instead of just Blobing them into Logging Off? xD

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Originally by: Gonada

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even though I regularly read about " pirates" and thier adventures, the reality is they prey on the weak and the vulnerable.

show any sign of a backbone and they run , stabbed to the max, the craptalk you how uber they are.

glad to see some controls in place regarding them coming, specially in a system you have control over.

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Originally by: xeom

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Clearly we should run up to a 100 man blob! BECUASE THATS FUN KIDS!

Besides smack talking do you much of anything else?

I never use stabs,im ussualy out numbered and never smack talk.

Tell me what do you do?

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: xeom

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Clearly we should run up to a 100 man blob! BECUASE THATS FUN KIDS!

Besides smack talking do you much of anything else?

I never use stabs,im ussualy out numbered and never smack talk.

Tell me what do you do?

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I never smack talk, and never will- it's childish.. and nothing I've said here is smacktalking. I never accused you of using stabs, nor did I even accuse crucifier-however he seemed to get really upset..heh. In fact, have I mentioned anyone's name or corp here?

I don't use stabs on any combat ship. I've been caught plenty of times and lost a ship because of it.

What do I do? I play Eve.

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Originally by: Rasitiln

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I can see why your not worried your play style isnt getting nerfed its not like ISS is going to fly over bob space and start running gank fleets or anything of the sort. A pirates play style is getting nerfed in 0.0 its as of right now the only place in eve where you can get in your crow claw or what ever interceptor and go kill stuff with out waiting 15 minutes to leave system while you sit in a safespot twiddleing your thumbs.

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Quote:

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Before you go about spewing OMG pirates stabs logofski etc try to consider the issue from our point of veiw. These Changes more than likely could be the end of roaming ceptor fleets etc, its not decreaseing the need of blobing and numbers its increaseing it.

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Quote:

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To the people that our saying well you can blow them up etc its fairly pointless jump in system in your battleship kill the sentry guns then fly back and get your ceptor?

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Quote:

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Sure not every one will because to put these up everywhere but look at the Rate ascn is going its only a year tops before they have the entrance to every region they control locked down with these "defenses". Its effectively ending 0.0 and just making it alliance vs alliance combat with cap ships

Sorry for grammer etc im tired and rambleing

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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What makes you think I don't go anywhere?

And you obviously didn't read the thread, this is regarding sentries at outposts, I'm not fond of any kind of gate control at the moment.

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Quote:

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The problem with stabbed ships is that it essentially forces blobing, because you neet to nail them with 4 points of scram to even catch them.

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Quote:

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even if there was a gate gun or two, in an inty you'll easily be able to decloak and warp before a sentry opens fire. And on the way back you'd be able to insta out of it.

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Quote:

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I completely understand what you're saying. All I'm asking is to see things from the other side as well. Right now, outpost systems have no defense at all, simply because there's no way to catch someone, even with a dictor bubble.

*hopefully* with the WCS nerf things will be fixed to where small gangs can invade a system, and an equal size force can engage without having the hostile warp away.

It's frustrating when you bust your ass for months, get into a system and claim it, and actually hold soverigenity, only to have someone invade in an inty, and log off in a safespot, and just keep logging on and off in the system.


In fact, there's no real answer on what's going to be allowed. There is a lack of outpost defenses, you know that as well as I do.

as to gates... meh. I don't care. As to stabbed combat ships-if you use them, the guilt's on you. If you don't, then


i don't care if you're a pirate, carebear, even part of ISS... using stabs on a combat ship is lame.


keep in mind this is coming off of a POS war that's lasted a long time... I'm tired of capship fighting, POS warfare, and super-blobs.. just because I'm ISS doesn't mean I take part in 100-man fleet gangs. I've been in something like 2 in the past 4 months.

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Originally by: Kiriz Zule

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So you are allowed the luxury to guess they will be weak while others are not allowed the luxury to guess they will be strong? If a dev has stated the guns proposed strength in relative terms(such as your sentry drone example), please in form us as that is part of the problem we are having with this argument; we just don't know how much they cost, how much dps, how much tank, how fast to lock these things are.

Edit: Forgot to add the cost element.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 28/09/2006 02:00:59
there's really nothing more to say about stabs right now.


but I'm for sentry guns at an outpost, and up in the air about guns at the gates.

a POS has guns, but not a station? it doesn't make sense.

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Originally by: Lunarmist

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Stop whining! As many pirates have said:"Risk vs. reward." So deal with it. Pirate life shouldn't be easy after all. Learn to adapt is the way. So cannot use cheap ships to swarm large ship anymore? Tough, use larger ships then. Too costly? Well, learn to make money to support your pirate toon. When alliances spent so much money on creating defense system, pirates should spend more money to deal with the situation. Cannot have best of both world you know.

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Originally by: Gorion Wassenar

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Originally by: Kiriz Zule

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So you are allowed the luxury to guess they will be weak while others are not allowed the luxury to guess they will be strong? If a dev has stated the guns proposed strength in relative terms(such as your sentry drone example), please in form us as that is part of the problem we are having with this argument; we just don't know how much they cost, how much dps, how much tank, how fast to lock these things are.

Edit: Forgot to add the cost element.

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No, its called common sense that they wouldn't put in such a drasticly game ruining, for corsairs, feature. Some defenses should be able to be established but nothing along the line that empires can make/have. They just have so much more logistical support then any player alliance could ever have. So it makes sense that the sentries would be corispondingly weaker.

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Originally by: Lunarmist

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I personally consider roaming ceptor gangs and such are cheap ships against expensive ships. Don't tell me most of the pirate gangs are not using large number of ceptors and maybe one or two recon/hac. I have seen too many of those. Why should pirates be able to flying around 0.0 space, within alliance systems without and check? After all, alliances have spent a lot of money and time to build and guard the systems they have claimed. It is only logic for alliance to be able to create good system wide defense to keep the people they don't like out.

It is not like those defense systems cannot be destroyed. So, pirates have to spent time to remove the defense. Guess what, that is what defense system is for. People who travel through low sec and 0.0 chokpoints have to deal with the risk of getting ganked, what is wrong with pirates now have to deal with it in hostile systems? For the reward of fun and money, you must be able to take the risk. If you cannot, then don't go to the systems with defense systems. Risk vs. reward apply to everybody.

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Originally by: Tasty Burger

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0.0 combat has progressively gotten worse since outposts, POS, capital ships and various other factors. As of right now, blobbing wins. This change only reinforces that. System Defenses? WTF. POS warfare is ridiculous enough already.

CCP, you are killing the game for small pvp corps (and non pvp corps too).

We shouldn't have to have sovereignty anywhere, or capital ships, or huge numbers, just to do good in 0.0. We shouldn't need to have huge gangs to get anything done.

Stop having sex with the alliances, please.

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Originally by: Tasty Burger

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0.0 combat has progressively gotten worse since outposts, POS, capital ships and various other factors. As of right now, blobbing wins. This change only reinforces that. System Defenses? WTF. POS warfare is ridiculous enough already.

CCP, you are killing the game for small pvp corps (and non pvp corps too).

We shouldn't have to have sovereignty anywhere, or capital ships, or huge numbers, just to do good in 0.0. We shouldn't need to have huge gangs to get anything done.

Stop having sex with the alliances, please.

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Originally by: Gonada

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I play eve, and I do very well, wether in or out of highsec.

ohh and if your not in the above, well the congratulations, your 1 in a 100 pirates.

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Originally by: xeom

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Originally by: Gonada

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I play eve, and I do very well, wether in or out of highsec.

ohh and if your not in the above, well the congratulations, your 1 in a 100 pirates.

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Congratulation you are one of 1 100,000 empire dwellers?

Whats your point? There is nobody with a unique playstyle that nobody else has.Well except for MGRL.

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Originally by: Locke DieDrake

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Noted, and I appriciate your recognition of this. I do of course realise that many Pirates do gank and log, and thus they are not pirates, merely gankers...

Theres a fine line between what we do and what others do, but it is there, and we - being Pirates - strongly believe in it, which is why we sometimes post quite strongly.

We dont mean any harm by what we say.

Back to topic, What scared us was every system in alliance space having 2 sentry guns per gate, plus their alliance defending ships. Its all to come, and we cant tell CCP what to do, but you (Being everyone that isnt a Pirate, in particular, or jus random neutrals) can surely see why we worry.

We're already restricted from High sec... Be a bit bad to be restricted from 0.0 too!

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Let me first say... I have no experiance with you guys in game, so I choose now to take you at your word that you are indeed "pirates" and not lamer gankers.

I agree with you in full that static defense should not stop pirate incursions. (nor other small scale incursions) But I disagree that sentry guns at gates would have this affect. It would simply stop you from camping that gate. Which is just fine by me.

Combined with much better system scanning. I don't see why this will even be a problem. (presuming that with the new scanning, we get better "warp to" options for items found on the scanner)

Personally though, I don't want sentries at gates. I'd rather see them at stations.

But as I said before, they don't need to be uber to do the job they are there for. They just need to keep hostiles from camping gates. They should not be able to break an enemy fleet though. Thats just rediculas.

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Originally by: Sonho

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I'am all for sentry's in 0.0 alliance space ,but with one condition that CCP remove the sentry's in low sec.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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System defences worry me. I dont want to jump into any alliances space and insta die to some Arazu and his sentries.

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Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii

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Originally by: Sonho

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I'am all for sentry's in 0.0 alliance space ,but with one condition that CCP remove the sentry's in low sec.

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Maybe your a new pirate... I dunno. But this would mean you would have allmost no targets to hunt... EVER!

Your playtime would be spent ganking at gates. There would be even less reason for any carebears to live in lowsec than there is allready.


Alliaanna

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Originally by: Sergeant Spot

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I'm looking forward to slamming a locked door on small roaming gangs.

You want to raid where we have Sov??? Bring a battle fleet and be prepared to fight.

Have a nice day.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 28/09/2006 01:08:41

Originally by: Crucifier

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What i find really sad in here, is the ******* hypocrit ****s here.. ISS and ASCN, you are more stab*****s than burn eden, hell im a more stab***** than burn eden, since burn eden barely use stabs. But you guys, every ship, each and every1 one, has a stab. SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT "BUHU THEY'RE BETTER THAN US, MUST BE BECAUSE THEY USE STABS BUHUHU" Im so sick and tired of hearing you nubs whine about it when you use it way more than any1 else. ******* hypocrits

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lol, just lol.


I must have hit a nerve.

I have never used stabs on a combat ship, it's a waste of a low slot.

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Originally by: Sergeant Spot

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I'm looking forward to slamming a locked door on small roaming gangs.

You want to raid where we have Sov??? Bring a battle fleet and be prepared to fight.

Have a nice day.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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[
"Hey which race should I choose? Gallente... Caldari... Matari... Amarr... or Ascendant?"

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Originally by: Crucifier

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What i find really sad in here, is the ******* hypocrit ****s here.. ISS and ASCN, you are more stab*****s than burn eden, hell im a more stab***** than burn eden, since burn eden barely use stabs. But you guys, every ship, each and every1 one, has a stab. SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT "BUHU THEY'RE BETTER THAN US, MUST BE BECAUSE THEY USE STABS BUHUHU" Im so sick and tired of hearing you nubs whine about it when you use it way more than any1 else. ******* hypocrits

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Originally by: Crucifier

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What i find really sad in here, is the ******* hypocrit ****s here.. ISS and ASCN, you are more stab*****s than burn eden, hell im a more stab***** than burn eden, since burn eden barely use stabs. But you guys, every ship, each and every1 one, has a stab. SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT "BUHU THEY'RE BETTER THAN US, MUST BE BECAUSE THEY USE STABS BUHUHU" Im so sick and tired of hearing you nubs whine about it when you use it way more than any1 else. ******* hypocrits

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Originally by: Cipher7

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As it stands now, piracy is a detriment to the game and doesn't really add anything.

It's the reason the risk/reward ratio of lowsec is schit.

Everybody and their grandmother is a pirate because there is no downside. Sec hit. Big deal. Use an alt and bring yourself gear from empire.

Can't be hunted down, you can just dock. Undock, redock, ad nauseum.

Rat in 0.0 for cash.

At least alliances add something to the game. Politics, sovereignty, a society in deep space.

Piracy does nothing except entertain the pirate.

Who are the victims? Noobs. Miners. Haulers. People who can't fight back.

Bounty hunting is supposed to be a "profession."

Name me one pirate hunting corp other than CA.

You know what would make Piracy meaningful?

A way to hunt them. A way to force them to undock. A way to make it so they can't dock in a certain area. To force them to be able to LOSE something.

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Quote:

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A way to hunt them. A way to force them to undock. A way to make it so they can't dock in a certain area. To force them to be able to LOSE something.

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Originally by: Cipher7

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As it stands now, piracy is a detriment to the game and doesn't really add anything.

It's the reason the risk/reward ratio of lowsec is schit.

Everybody and their grandmother is a pirate because there is no downside. Sec hit. Big deal. Use an alt and bring yourself gear from empire.

Can't be hunted down, you can just dock. Undock, redock, ad nauseum.

Rat in 0.0 for cash.

At least alliances add something to the game. Politics, sovereignty, a society in deep space.

Piracy does nothing except entertain the pirate.

Who are the victims? Noobs. Miners. Haulers. People who can't fight back.

Bounty hunting is supposed to be a "profession."

Name me one pirate hunting corp other than CA.

You know what would make Piracy meaningful?

A way to hunt them. A way to force them to undock. A way to make it so they can't dock in a certain area. To force them to be able to LOSE something.

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Originally by: Noluck Ned

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 28/09/2006 01:08:41

Originally by: Crucifier

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What i find really sad in here, is the ******* hypocrit ****s here.. ISS and ASCN, you are more stab*****s than burn eden, hell im a more stab***** than burn eden, since burn eden barely use stabs. But you guys, every ship, each and every1 one, has a stab. SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT "BUHU THEY'RE BETTER THAN US, MUST BE BECAUSE THEY USE STABS BUHUHU" Im so sick and tired of hearing you nubs whine about it when you use it way more than any1 else. ******* hypocrits

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lol, just lol.


I must have hit a nerve.

I have never used stabs on a combat ship, it's a waste of a low slot.

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I know this is off topic but I have to clarify a point here: For certain pilots wcs are a STANDARD part of their COMBAT setups.

The above poster is one of them.(at least on his Vaga)

I personally have had points on him more than once and woosh off he warped.

As for the sentry guns, I will be happy to see them outside outposts but I am not really in favour of them being deployed at standard gates. There was something in the pipeline regarding player owned GATES(Las Vegas Dev Q&A IIRC) Now in that case I believe sentries should be permitted.

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Trying to make it sound like you're anything other than a garden variety yarrtard is an insult to your own intelligence.

Nobody ever changed the game through piracy.

People do that because it's fun, theres lots of victims, and low risk.

Trying to gain sovereignty over a system isn't piracy.

If you think ganking hulks while the pod pilot is taking a crap is what seperates WoW from Eve, then I think you're better off playing WoW.

Everybody in the game has tried their hand at piracy, including myself.

Seriously, anybody who thinks OMG PIRACY IS SO HAAAAARD, you need to uninstall Eve.

A$$clowns.

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Trying to make it sound like you're anything other than a garden variety yarrtard is an insult to your own intelligence.

Nobody ever changed the game through piracy.

People do that because it's fun, theres lots of victims, and low risk.

Trying to gain sovereignty over a system isn't piracy.

If you think ganking hulks while the pod pilot is taking a crap is what seperates WoW from Eve, then I think you're better off playing WoW.

Everybody in the game has tried their hand at piracy, including myself.

Seriously, anybody who thinks OMG PIRACY IS SO HAAAAARD, you need to uninstall Eve.

A$$clowns.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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Originally by: Cipher7

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Trying to make it sound like you're anything other than a garden variety yarrtard is an insult to your own intelligence.

Nobody ever changed the game through piracy.

People do that because it's fun, theres lots of victims, and low risk.

Trying to gain sovereignty over a system isn't piracy.

If you think ganking hulks while the pod pilot is taking a crap is what seperates WoW from Eve, then I think you're better off playing WoW.

Everybody in the game has tried their hand at piracy, including myself.

Seriously, anybody who thinks OMG PIRACY IS SO HAAAAARD, you need to uninstall Eve.

A$$clowns.

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That said, Pirayc isnt easy, just like Mining in low sec isnt easy, but you dont have a problem with that do you? No, because thats what you like doing, that or NPCing, or fighting wars. Its all the same mate. The difference is your deciding when you fight, so you personally are happy to engage. Look at it at our point of view and its the same thing.

Dont smacktalk me, either. Its not polite nor was it called for.

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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I cant believe some people want Eve without pirates. It would be like disneyland.

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Originally by: xeom

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Cipher7 you make me laugh bro.You lack of knowledge is beyond any ! character.

How exactly should it be harder? We can be attacked anywhere anytime and can't go into low-sec.What else do you wan't? 200% more damage to -5.0?

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!

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Originally by: shadyfox99

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4th- Gate camping is not piracy.

and last, why do people talk about things they know nothing about?

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Originally by: Almakar Envelsion

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Edited by: Almakar Envelsion on 29/09/2006 00:06:44
Edited by: Almakar Envelsion on 29/09/2006 00:05:26
For those who beleive 0.0 is their personal playground, I must say you are utterly naive. From the start EVE has been designed to be as realistic as possable. Corporations driveing the economy, allainces takeing over regions of space. Pirates praying on those allainces. As new tools have been intoduced, EVE has become more and more realistic. First the conq stations, then outposts, bubbles and interdictors, sentry drones, freighters to move the materials that drive our economy. Capital ships to wage war upon others.

As EVE is designed to be realistic, there no reason to prohibit those who have the resources to do as they wish to( within the realms of being realistic ). I beleive the allaince controled stargate sentries will be far weaker than empire, if you look at the general trend youll see that too. Yet this is besides the point.

If EVE was put into the real world, as CCP seem to be trying to acheive from there work on makeing EVE as realistic as possable, there is no reason why allainces should not be able to deploy defenses, its their money.

Look to the real world. As technology advanced, the pirates of the seas began to die out. Great wars over territory blossomed. The same with EVE.
In the beggining EVE was not very developed, pirates ran rampant. As new tools became avaialble to people and groups formed, the threat of pirates decreased, and yet it did not, as pirates had access to the same tools.

Im not saying pirates will die out, pirates will have to addapt, as they allways have, you cannot stop change just because you wish the behave as children, whineing about "ITS TOO HARDDDD, MAKE IT EASIERRRRR".

Real life is not easy, as is true with EVE, if you want to play a game where you can shoot people without resitance, I suggest you quit EVE and go somewhere else, we dont need the kind of people not willing to work to do what they want.

Honestly its pathetic how people whine about things not being fair, how if something changes, they are doomed. EVE is not fair, EVE is realistic, nor can anyone predict the future of how new content will affect EVE, just as with real life.

CCP is doing a very good job provideing people with tools and capabilities as close to what they wopuld have in RL as possable. Change happens, so get the **** over it and adapt.

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!

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Originally by: shadyfox99

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Second, none of us pirates are asking to make anything easier, we are asking for sentry guns to NOT be put into 0.0

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Originally by: Akhtar Leon

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Originally by: shadyfox99

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Second, none of us pirates are asking to make anything easier, we are asking for sentry guns to NOT be put into 0.0

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How about you actualy go into the system and hunt for your prey, not camping a gate or an outpost for a poor hauler or barge to pop into the camp?
That ally invested bilions of ISK to control that space ... how does it control it? what's the use of soveragnity in a system? at least can provide a bit of help for the home guys.
in 1 vs 1 fight with same ships at a gate or outpost seems normal for me that "local" guy gets a bit of help of his ally soveragnity over the system. Usualy fights are over until the friends, even in local, get out of warp to location and the aggresor is gone.
You want to gank at the gates ... it will cost ya either more manpower or more tanking capabilities.

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!

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Originally by: Rasitiln

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The simple mindedness of people in a alliance astound me dont like us blowing up your barge or hauler npcing battleship carrier dreadnought what ever fly with a escourt or scout. Why should ccp give you static npc protection. Police your own space dont beg ccp for game mechanics that allow you to be even more lazy. next you will ask ccp to beable to hire concord to protect your mining ops

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Originally by: Telemicus Thrace

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This is all conjecture, I think we should just wait and see before we start crying about pirates being nerfed. If CCP put this in the game they way your are presenting it then 0.0 alliance warfare would be kicked in the teeth hard. Nobody wants that so it won't be anywhere near as bad as you are making out.

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Originally by: JP Beauregard

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The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....

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Originally by: HostageTaker

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Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!

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