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Auto Pilot Warp to Zero

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el alasar The Scope Gallente Federation 84	Posted - 2011.12.05 04:18:00 - [91] - Quote i liked those 2 ideas. makes training the advanced skill more necessary. i split the distance and edited the module activation text. better? check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 149	Posted - 2011.12.05 18:51:00 - [92] - Quote bump
Xenial Jesse Taalo Tactical Nyan Cat Attack Force OMNIMODUS ALLIANCE 36	Posted - 2011.12.06 00:47:00 - [93] - Quote I entered with the initial common opinion of why AP is good the way it is, but scanning the first 2 pages I see the point in removing or heavily buffing it. Just repeating others here then; the benefit to changing autopilot is not so that more people use it safely, it's so that more people risk using it unsafely. That's what we want. Regarding the skills idea, not a big fan. Because for one, it's not character skill. By definition, this is the training of something the pilot clearly doesn't do. I suppose that kind of thing can be found in other places in Eve though. For two, it's not a skill of productivity. It doesn't get an edge over other players; manual will always be better. So now we're training a skill that is only significant when the player is doing nothing. It's encouraging the don't-play button because that's the only way to see its rewards. That's a problem. I have nothing against toying with fun ideas for it though. If a skill were to be implemented I would suggest letting level 1 simply be the ability to use autopilot in the first place.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 276	Posted - 2011.12.06 01:59:00 - [94] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Esunisen wrote: If you play EVE only for pewpew against rats, you are missing 5% of the game. FTFY ^Fixed that for you. Goose99 wrote: Vizvayu Koga wrote: Nestara Aldent wrote: No real solution for you who want to ruin the game is simply to unsub. This is game is pvp game and making pvp flagging system or nerfing ganking and world pvp will ruin the game for every one of us who knew what this game is before subscribing! Instead of crying so loud CCP to make this game into another WoW clone, why you just don't go to WoW or STO or SWTOR? Plenty of PvP in null and also with faction warfare... EVE is larger that you think, there is trading, exploring, ratting, manufacturing, and many other things and ways to play that don't involve PvP. ^This FPS twitch shooters are pvp games. Eve is overwhelmingly pve activity, if you check the numbers. From dec 2007 to today, 6.3 mil player boats popped in highsec to mission rats, this compared to 7 mil players popped to blobs in null. Oh, that figure includes the 3.4 mil pods popped, btw, which, it's safe to assume, is from pvp (pod in a bubble, lulz), since rats don't pop pods. Pvp as a whole is a minor part of Eve. Highsec gatecamping, even less so. Even if all highsec gatecamping stops, it's an insignificant part of Eve that hardly matters. Instead of camping a highsec gate, have you considered... you know, pvp?
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 237	Posted - 2011.12.06 02:17:00 - [95] - Quote Goose99 wrote: Pvp as a whole is a minor part of Eve. Highsec gatecamping, even less so. Even if all highsec gatecamping stops, it's an insignificant part of Eve that hardly matters. Instead of camping a highsec gate, have you considered... you know, pvp? What part of player versus player confuses you?
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 276	Posted - 2011.12.06 03:31:00 - [96] - Quote Emperor Salazar wrote: Goose99 wrote: Pvp as a whole is a minor part of Eve. Highsec gatecamping, even less so. Even if all highsec gatecamping stops, it's an insignificant part of Eve that hardly matters. Instead of camping a highsec gate, have you considered... you know, pvp? FPS twitch shooters are pvp games. Eve is overwhelmingly pve activity, if you check the numbers. From dec 2007 to today, 6.3 mil player boats popped in highsec to mission rats, this compared to 7 mil players popped to blobs in null. Oh, that figure includes the 3.4 mil pods popped, btw, which, it's safe to assume, is from pvp (pod in a bubble, lulz), since rats don't pop pods. I'm confused It means Eve is a sandbox, not pvp, silly.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 237	Posted - 2011.12.06 03:45:00 - [97] - Quote Stop posting bro
Bearilian Man Eating Bears 30	Posted - 2011.12.06 05:07:00 - [98] - Quote this is not the forum thread to argue how you define eve online. I'm talking to both sides here. please stay on topic, because eve is both a pvp and a pve game, and its a matter of opinion how much of each is going on. lets hear from more people on whether they think Auto pilot should be reduced to zero, or introduced into a skill set, or left alone.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 277	Posted - 2011.12.06 05:27:00 - [99] - Quote Bearilian wrote: this is not the forum thread to argue how you define eve online. I'm talking to both sides here. please stay on topic, because eve is both a pvp and a pve game, and its a matter of opinion how much of each is going on. lets hear from more people on whether they think Auto pilot should be reduced to zero, or introduced into a skill set, or left alone. The justification for nonfunctional ingame AP is so that nooblet pvper wannabes who can't catch boats that are not in AP can still have kills. Thus, the entire player base has to resort to outside solutions for the sake of TEST and goon grubs.
Nasopraso BRUTAL GENESIS 4	Posted - 2011.12.06 11:12:00 - [100] - Quote So...make AP to warp at 0, you already make the Stupid Active Jump Button...now you can make automatically AP at 0, Jump..so the next step is to make when you are in recon to clock itself.....wtf??! in this point of view I will login just to change the skill but probably you will find solution for this too...go go go CCP. If I want this I will buy a bot
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 154	Posted - 2011.12.07 17:51:00 - [101] - Quote Nasopraso wrote: So...make AP to warp at 0, you already make the Stupid Active Jump Button...now you can make automatically AP at 0, Jump..so the next step is to make when you are in recon to clock itself.....wtf??! in this point of view I will login just to change the skill but probably you will find solution for this too...go go go CCP. If I want this I will buy a bot You seem to be missing the point that some of us have made. Travelling in Eve is tedious and annoying, and no one wants do do it, unless they're hunting for something. We, or at least, I'm not suggesting to change AP to make Eve more bottable. I'm suggesting it because the current AP takes too long, and no one like to travel. This will get us to where we're going so that we can actually play the game the way you signed up for. Travelling isn't so much playing the game. It's more like getting on you xbox to play battlefield, then waiting for the system to load, then the game to load, then the server to load, then the next match to load(first match totally doesn't count cause you're always in a crappy spot when you start.) Basically travelling in Eve is more like waiting for the game to load so you can play. So essentially, I'm suggesting to reduce the amount of down time for players. Oh, and I would love it if my sb "clocked" itself.
Rina Asanari State War Academy Caldari State 23	Posted - 2011.12.08 07:58:00 - [102] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Basically travelling in Eve is more like waiting for the game to load so you can play. So essentially, I'm suggesting to reduce the amount of down time for players. Can you tell me a game where you can be shot/killed the time the game loads? Bad comparison. Getting from A to B is an integral part of EvE, we're not all in the same solar system, period. If you're twenty jumps out from your fleet op theatre it's either your problem or the FC's bad planning. Travel times more than once decided the outcome of a battle. Live with it.
Prizon Delfus Inc. HumAnnoyeD 0	Posted - 2011.12.08 09:41:00 - [103] - Quote Nestara Aldent wrote: No you're all wrong. This game is pvp game with world pvp and ganking. It's a niche game, while you want to make CCP change in into mainstream pve grinder, where it will simply be overshadowed by competition. Niche and not mainstream game. It's like asking craftsman that handcrafts unique and valuable items, which gives him comfortable living but not a fortune, to start competing with mass produced goods. Just you have to realize it. MMOCrunch has declared Eve to be top pvp mmo of 2011. But without that pvp you hate so much, I doubt Eve would have made it into top five, unnoticed. No one argues the pvp value of the game which is super, but what IS superb, is that if you do not want to, you do not pvp, the best pvp mmo game comes from the larger category most intertwined and difficult mmo, that eve is. I do not want to shoot anyone. ANYONE, let alone pod them. Having typed that, i fully understand and i have several times being wardecked and podded, the need for players to act on pvp. But i beg to differ that pvp is what EVE is about.
Prizon Delfus Inc. HumAnnoyeD 0	Posted - 2011.12.08 09:53:00 - [104] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Travelling in Eve is tedious and annoying, and no one wants do do it, unless they're hunting for something. I love hauling as a matter of fact and i am more than happy when i get to travel a freightr 40 plus jumps... I am hunting for nothing. As for the ap issue i think el alasars propositions have clear merrit..
Jicc Happy fragles 1	Posted - 2011.12.08 10:18:00 - [105] - Quote I dont think AP to 15 is good. Maybe AP to 5km would be enough. But i would like to remind you few things: - sitting 20mins doing nothing but clicking jump to gate every other minute, no matter what you think is NOT fun. - people who have valuable cargo are not using autopilot anyway, so they are hard to gank already - reducing AP distance is good for casual players making game easier and less clickfest, making at the same time game harder for veterans (or gankers) is also good - never introduce mechanic to game that most people will bypass using macros, thus forcing other people at disadvantage - lore: we are far in the future, now explain me, how in the world of high technology, robots etc pilot have to manually navigate because it is faster than AP? It doesnt match for me. I dont understand why for some people clicking=playing. To me, playing always was to make decisions. Clicking of course is needed but should be reduced to minimum. Forcing people to click so they think, they are playing is bad design imo.
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 18	Posted - 2011.12.08 14:41:00 - [106] - Quote Bearilian wrote: Although I would like to add, (forget who I heard this from) but someone suggested introducing an auto pilot skill, or some similar skill that would reduce the distance from the gate. by lvl 5 have it within 0 km. make it extremely sp extensive so it takes a really long time to train. that way you know the person earned it. +1 Rina Asanari wrote: Back to autopiloting: You're travelling, pure and simple. You're occupied with the process of travelling. An airplane pilot cannot simply switch on autopilot and take a nap somewhere in the rear part of plane as well. As well as you can't simply switch on cruise control and make a coffee in the back of your mobile home, even if the long, straight, empty roads of Canada entice you to do it. So.... No. In fact, most of the new planes actually don't really need a pilot... it takes off, fly and land by their own... The pilot is there just in case of an emergency (Someone try to gank the ship), and if the pilot is not at the cabin at the time we will have an accident like that Airfrance that felt in the middle of Atlantic... So in my opinion there is no reason to don't make the autopilot jump to 0, or at last to make a skill that reduces the distance, since there are already some macros that does the jumping...( set the overview to show only stargates and with just a simple recorder macro you can save a "jump to 0 route" from the most used routes that you will only need to undock and activate... jou just need to make it once )... Playing is not clicking and grinding levels/monney... Playing is all about decisions! That is a grown up game! That is what EVE was supposed to be!
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 157	Posted - 2011.12.08 18:30:00 - [107] - Quote Rina Asanari wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: Basically travelling in Eve is more like waiting for the game to load so you can play. So essentially, I'm suggesting to reduce the amount of down time for players. Can you tell me a game where you can be shot/killed the time the game loads? Bad comparison. So my comparison may have been bad, but I was just setting the point that travelling isn't really playing the game IMO. Quote: Getting from A to B is an integral part of EvE, we're not all in the same solar system, period. If you're twenty jumps out from your fleet op theatre it's either your problem or the FC's bad planning. Travel times more than once decided the outcome of a battle. Live with it. You just verified my point exactly. If someone in your fleet can't make it to your location and you end up getting popped, well, he was flying manually to make it faster. This AP system would still be slower, so how would it change anything about the system? If you can't make it there in time when flying manually, than even with AP warp to 0, you're still not gonna be there in time. The only thing that can possibly be considered a valid reason not to implement this is high sec ganks. Yet, I and others have noted that ganking is just as viable on the other side of the gate before the target warps. Pulling off a gank in high sec should require a skilled player with quick reactions that know's what they're doing. yet AP warping to 15 means that anyone with a ship that has high enough dps to quickly down the target can pull off a gank. So skill is a factor. Gate ganking in high sec shouldn't be as easy as doing a lvl 2 mission and just waiting for the target to pop up 15km from the gate. If you wanna gank then gank the same way low sec gate camps do. Their method of ganking requires a lot more skill and knowledge to pull off a good gank. So why do high sec gate gankers get easy kills? Oh, I guess for the same reason it's so easy to pull off wardecs. So that wanna be pvp'ers can feel like they're actually accomplishing something, but yet they're afraid to go where the real fights are and try to take people on in low/null. It's funny how so many people try to say Eve is "pvp centric" but when they get involved in pvp they try to avoid people that can actually fight back. (I'm not talking about all pvp'ers, just the ones in high sec who thrive of ganks and wardecs.) Sure, the corp you're deccing or the person you're ganking should have been prepared, but that's not the reason you're ganking or deccing them. You're ganking and deccing them because they're easy kills. If you wanted a challenge you would go to low/null. So ya'll are in high sec for the same reason all those carebears are in high sec. Because you're risk adverse and don't wanna lose your shinies. If you wanna get away with this then it should require a little more skill out of you, and that skill will be shown if you know how to pull off a gank on a target that is fixing to warp out. Not on a target that is slow boating towards you with no one at the helm. Seriously...Man up and learn how to gank and quit trying to use your lack of ability as a reason for not improving quality of life for everyone else.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 3066	Posted - 2011.12.08 18:55:00 - [108] - Quote Tippia wrote: No. Not needed, and removes the benefit you get for doing it manually (beating your lazy-ass competitors). This. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 18	Posted - 2011.12.08 19:02:00 - [109] - Quote So, now everyone agree that we can have a warp to less then 15Km autopilot? and it would still be possible to gank in hi-sec while they align for the next warp?
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 18	Posted - 2011.12.08 19:03:00 - [110] - Quote Alx Warlord wrote: So, now everyone agree that we can have a warp to less then 15Km autopilot? and it would still be possible to gank in hi-sec while they align for the next warp? Also that everyone that do warps professionally as hauler can have a macro to help its job?
Bearilian Man Eating Bears 31	Posted - 2011.12.08 19:14:00 - [111] - Quote I love how we've beatn the arguement down to the pulp. so super simplified; 1 it'l make people afk more< but its just traveling wich is not really playing the game in the first place. 2 but your gearing it towards pve'ers< no if you wanna gank high sec then gets some brains and balls. 3 it'll help botters< no it'll even the playing field between people who dont bot than people who do and use macro's. (oh, and the other one 4 I wanna feel like i earned to travel faster because i want to do it manually< we offered to comprimize for you and implement a delay, (but in reality; your a lazy ganker in desguise, or a troll who enjoys being bored so STFU)) Since its illogical to keep the AP system the same, I wish ccp would say something. simple question to them. why is AP warp to 15km in place? does our arguments stand up or will you quietly ignore us after all is said and done?
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 158	Posted - 2011.12.08 19:35:00 - [112] - Quote Bearilian wrote: Since its illogical to keep the AP system the same, I wish ccp would say something. simple question to them. why is AP warp to 15km in place? does our arguments stand up or will you quietly ignore us after all is said and done? lol, a response from CCP other than the thread has been moved???? You're crazy... I like you.....but you're crazy...
Torin Corax Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD. 1	Posted - 2011.12.08 19:49:00 - [113] - Quote I'm not an industrialist, so I ask this out of curiosity... Just how much of an advantage does a hauler/ trader get by piloting manually? Over given trade routes how many more runs (and by extension, profit) would you gain over those using AP? More importantly perhaps, given how boring/ annoying some people feel current travel mechanics are, how many potential competitors are dissuaded from becoming haulers because of travel time? I realise my last question is impossible to accurately gauge, but it is perhaps something to bear in mind. If AP warp to zero were implemented there may well be a jump in trading activity that would lower profit margins for the current professionals. Is this something those professionals would be happy to see? Just curious.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 3067	Posted - 2011.12.08 19:51:00 - [114] - Quote Alx Warlord wrote: Mag's wrote: Tippia wrote: No. Not needed, and removes the benefit you get for doing it manually (beating your lazy-ass competitors). This. You mean Macro? No, can you read? CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Jicc Happy fragles 2	Posted - 2011.12.08 20:00:00 - [115] - Quote Some of you should start thinking out of the box, or maybe CCP should ... Anyway. Some of you stuck with that 15km range and wont let it change. But what if AP would be changed so it warps to 0 BUT some other player can drop a can at your ship full of marines while it is preparing for warp. Gameplay could look like this: you dont need to click over and over like headless monkey, you just sit and watch if somebody put some suprice on your ship. You are still traveling as normal but marines are trying to take control of your ship. When you dont respond quick enough, your crew would fight back but not organized in best possible way considering situation (or it would be something like simple scissors/rock/paper game where attacker would change stances and you being afk would have one default which would be simple to defeat). This way you have: strategic choice, a need to be in game and playing and not need to click when its not needed. When you loose, attacker would take control of ship. I think that would spice this game some more. Its only example just to proove to some of you, that there can be alot more ideas just to make it different and make all people happy. Just think more and post ideas. And btw people who cry most about that change are people who love to destroy other people fun without risking and picking easy fights. Why anyone should care about they fun in this case? If warp to 0 would mean more low sec fights then i am all for this.
Bearilian Man Eating Bears 31	Posted - 2011.12.08 21:48:00 - [116] - Quote Jicc wrote: Its only example just to proove to some of you, that there can be alot more ideas just to make it different and make all people happy. Just think more and post ideas. yes, I love your mentality. The potential of eve that is so enticing to me, is its vastness. so rather than argue, "you dont want change", offer new idea's. I think having marines board a ship has already had some discussion, and we're getting into "taking over someones ship" idea. instead of marines, you could have a launcher that shoots a package of tiny bots, that could do a variety of things; sabotage, engines, warp drives, targeting systems, navagation, (would could also be used in combat, but thats should be its own thread). I realize that we already have drones that do many of the same things, but you could have the bots increase their potency in time, as if digging deeper into the ship. they could target power grids or cpu, forcibly shutting off modules... sorry got waayyy off topic. but yes, basically I am supporting the idea that rather than fight change help change be interesting and exciting. and Joe Risalo wrote: lol, a response from CCP other than the thread has been moved???? You're crazy... I like you.....but you're crazy... muahahahahaha!!!!!
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 158	Posted - 2011.12.09 17:31:00 - [117] - Quote bump
el alasar The Scope Gallente Federation 108	Posted - 2011.12.09 19:53:00 - [118] - Quote any more thoughts on my proposal from post #87? i would like to provide some more exact numbers for better discussion, has anyone seen a formula for t(s) factoring in the acceleration? i found this Vt = Vmax * (1 - e^(-t * 10^6 / (I*M) ) here , but it still needs integration to get s(t), and then i would need the inverse function to get t(s)... its been a while... so if someone had a solution? @joe how do you feel about changing your top post and thread headline to reflect that this is discussion about several variants how autopilot could be changed to reduce time spent with AP? also link to my proposal from post #87? i really would like to get some more feedback on it, but i fear many people dont reach that post - i am not a fan of starting a new thread for the same subject over and over, but of course i could do that if you prefer that... i could imagine you change your top post a little like CSM proposals are structured... pros, cons, different ways to implement... check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 158	Posted - 2011.12.09 20:06:00 - [119] - Quote el alasar wrote: stuff I'm perfectly fine with delayed AP as long as it's still faster than the current AP travel time. I suppose you could add time based on the size of the ship because the ship needs to be aligned and at a certain % of their speed before AP will jump them. However, a delay at the gate they warp to is kinda pointless because if you go to lock them and then try to gun them down, well, they're right next to a gate, so as soon as the delay ends they'll jump right out and you'll get conc'd. So I say an AP delay when initiating warp is fine, but not on jump. All this means to gankers is they have to catch you before you warp out instead of while you're approaching a gate.
el alasar The Scope Gallente Federation 108	Posted - 2011.12.09 20:17:00 - [120] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: However, a delay at the gate they warp to is kinda pointless because if you go to lock them and then try to gun them down, well, they're right next to a gate, so as soon as the delay ends they'll jump right out and you'll get conc'd. as pointed out in #45 and #51, this delay is not really meant for locking: Quote: 4. arriving at gate. even with WTZ you can run into smartbombing when arriving at a gate. and this does not only happen in lowsec - though in lowsec people are usually better at doing this and it is used more often ^^. this utilizes a) you passing their ship, b) you stopping sometimes still inside their AoE raidus, c) gate jump is delayed / "timer" Quote: - i feel disco ships are used very seldom in highsec ganking, as an incentive to shift the distribution of used ganking methods in that direction (variety and options are key!) i proposed the idle-before-jump delay. check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts

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