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Curious about the exploiting going on and the actions being taken

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:54:00 - [1] I am a new player, and I like the game. I think it is cool how CCP is handling the server issues, by giving good info ( dev blogs ) etc. The problem I have atm is that I read alot about exploiting complexes, and no action being taken towards the exploiters. So CCP is the message you are giving to new players that exploiting is fine until you close the holes? Main problem here is information and the lack of it. I have seen many games ruined by exploits, cheats and hacks. I dont want to invest my time in Eve if it goes the same way and nothing is being done to prevent it. 1 of the reasons I think it is a big issue is because when I played my 1st 2 days I already received 3 mails to buy ISK from Ebay with Real Life cash. So why cant you ( ccp ) give us an update on how you are handling things? Just like you do with the server issues. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Biglipz	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Biglipz on 01/10/2006 19:03:51 It would seem in the case of the complex thingy, they arn't taking action again those that abused it, thats obvious because the worst of the people who abused it are still logging in and out of EVE every day. Although, It's possible they just haven't taken action yet.
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:02:00 - [3] It was in my sig courtesy of someone else. If you bug report it they ignore you. If you post about it on the forums they ban you or sweep it under the carpet. If you perform the expolit you get rich. I think this sums it up. CCP have had plenty of time to communicate to their subscribers the extent of the damage done (or lack of) and the actions taken.
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:10:00 - [4] Well if they ban me over this fine, then I immediatly know how they handle things and I can forget about this game. If this topic gets locked or deleted I will know as well. As long as there is no name calling or an explanation on how the exploit can be done ( or was done, since it is fixed now ) I see no reason why this topic should be locked or deleted. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:12:00 - [5] Originally by: Deja Thoris It was in my sig courtesy of someone else. If you bug report it they ignore you. If you post about it on the forums they ban you or sweep it under the carpet. If you perform the expolit you get rich. I think this sums it up. CCP have had plenty of time to communicate to their subscribers the extent of the damage done (or lack of) and the actions taken. Well my petitions were not ignored ... they were answered pretty fast. Honestly I have nothing but good to say about this game and its support, except the exploiting issue. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:14:00 - [6] There was a sticky about this a while ago, where ccp told people that they are looking into it. I guess it just takes time. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:14:00 - [7] Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions

Biglipz	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:16:00 - [8] Edited by: Biglipz on 01/10/2006 19:18:57 Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Bans were not issued over the issue anyway, at least if they were they must have missed some people, i was watching one guy in paticular who would stay online 23 hours a day farming the old bugged complex, as soon as DT was over he would login and would stay till next dt, then the next dt he did the same again, he still plays eve all day. If he wasn't banned for exploiting, he should have been for account sharing. In the case of what happend with this bug, it was exploited to such a grand scale that the playerbase needs some kind of assurance that ccp has taken action.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:18:00 - [9] as long as ccp is profiting off the exploiters, and isk sellers, they will not ban them. it is all about profit. subscriptions = profits ccp will conduct their business how they wish too. end of story.
Siri Blue Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:19:00 - [10] Very nice post about the issue... The problem is...it is CCPs policy to not talk about such issues... Exploits, bans and such are not being discussed by CCP... And thats the problem... Imho its a very bad policy (hi Wrangler!) as players only get the info that there have been exploits and macros and such going on... And then...nothing...no info about them being deleted...only info when accused ones are still in game... VERY very bad information policy! I don't say you should post people's and corp's names...but... Some information about actions being taken would really increase the faith again...
DeMundus The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:22:00 - [11] The "exploit" that is ruining pvp, and the base of this game atm is the exploit where some1 jumps though a gate and logs of under cloak to save their ship, or similar situation... Use a scout muppets or stay in empire space where you are safe! To many doing this... Regards mad man DeM... Grrr Abandon all hope But take care of teh cake!11 - Immy
Biglipz	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:25:00 - [12] Edited by: Biglipz on 01/10/2006 19:25:21 Originally by: DeMundus The "exploit" that is ruining pvp, and the base of this game atm is the exploit where some1 jumps though a gate and logs of under cloak to save their ship, or similar situation... Use a scout muppets or stay in empire space where you are safe! To many doing this... Regards mad man DeM... Grrr Are you trying to get this thread locked on purpose? I dont even see why you just said what you said.
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Wrangler, of course you do not post any names ... No one wants a witch hunt, all I ask is to inform us with "X amount of accounts were banned for X amount of time" or "The exploiting was not severe enough for any bans but we removed large portions of the ill gained ISK" or anything ... Eventually even Mythic realised they had to inform the player with such info ( was regarding radar users ) So no names, just numbers and measures. Honestly quoting a Faq is not gonna help with an exploit of this magnitude. Please dont go the SOE way. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:37:00 - [14] When ccp posts about 100 accounts being banned, I bet the thread will contain lots of players saying "What about this guy? And this guy!? They is still in the game! CCP suxorz, me roxorz". And dont forget the "ccp hates my european cluster, but luvs the chinese!" posts. Oh well. I come here for the entertainment anyway. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:40:00 - [15] Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. ...
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.10.01 20:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Razin Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. nonono you are confused by the surface simularity to your own typical post, but the OP distinquished their post by not trolling or trying to derail the thread so as to cause a lock. now back to the subject at hand, what will ccp say about the scandle, if anything... I say ccp will say and do nothing, but ccp can prove me wrong at anytime (we can hope).
Crypt Gallente Raging Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.01 20:15:00 - [17] I've sent in a couple of petitions on exploits. I got a warning for my efforts. Thus I cancelled my account as of yesterday. It was a fun 3.5 year ride. I wish CCP the best on resolving the issues, its a great game. Customer service is severely lacking but thats pretty much the case with any and all software in this day and age and CCP is no better or worse at it than most. Have fun and fly safe. Quote: It is a poor sort of man who is content to be spoon-fed knowledge that has been filtered through the canon of religious or political belief
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.01 20:23:00 - [18] Quote: Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. CCP does not need to publish their names - some general info about how many macroers, sploiters and smmacktalkers have been BANNED would be ok. Lets say: CCP kicked 1260 macrominers. Why can this not be published??? This would make a lot of people happy to hear. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Ilea Celentay Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.01 20:30:00 - [19] I have not yet posted anything on this topic, but I will now. Not sure why... People that need to cheat ruin the game for themselves, they turn something that was designed to be fun into a personal competition beyond that of a fair game. Unfortunately, as we all know cheaters in any way disrupt the game for many more people. Though, as I read these numerous threads about why the exploiters have not yet been banned I do have to ask myself why some people take it on a personal level. I belive, and have and will always believe that CCP love Eve Online on a higher level then that simply to make the wallets bigger... Just in the same way that some people in Eve can be the poorest players, but still have the most fun within the game. I think that those criticizing CCP for not doing anything or demanding they name names donÆt quite understand the principle of owning something thatÆs as vibrant as Eve online, to have created something like this we should all know that CCP and the employees and volunteers care about it. I'm sure that CCP hate the cheaters as much as we all do. IÆm sure that if they could that would ban those that they suspected of cheating on the first sign, but my question is, what happens when they pick an innocent... What happens when that innocent person is You? CCP have made an excellent game, and even though sometimes there customer survive may let a few of us down, we should all know that they do what they can. The problem is, since all the cheating in Eve seams to revolve around selling of in game items for real money, someone will always try and sell it... and worse still someone will always buy it. The final question is out of all these cheaters how often does it really affect you as a player, for me, never, yet... If you now of a said group of people that could be 'illegally funded', why not drive further into them, course more damage, because you know that every ship you kill, every clone you squish, you not only proving that cheaters will always loose, your also costing them real money. Is that not punishment enough? - "We have big plans. Secret plans, but BIG!" Faction\|Tech1 Ship Info
DETOVI Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.01 21:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. CCP 4tl! You can at least post # of accounts banned, etc.
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.01 21:56:00 - [21] Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Razin Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. nonono you are confused by the surface simularity to your own typical post, but the OP distinquished their post by not trolling or trying to derail the thread so as to cause a lock. now back to the subject at hand, what will ccp say about the scandle, if anything... I say ccp will say and do nothing, but ccp can prove me wrong at anytime (we can hope). At the very least I'm not posting with an alt. It takes some kind of a pathological spinelessness to hide behind an alt here when your anonymity is already protected by a game toon. DonÆt you believe in the righteousness of what youÆre demanding? What are you afraid of? ...
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.01 22:07:00 - [22] Edited by: CyberGh0st on 01/10/2006 22:08:39 Originally by: Razin Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Razin Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. nonono you are confused by the surface simularity to your own typical post, but the OP distinquished their post by not trolling or trying to derail the thread so as to cause a lock. now back to the subject at hand, what will ccp say about the scandle, if anything... I say ccp will say and do nothing, but ccp can prove me wrong at anytime (we can hope). At the very least I'm not posting with an alt. It takes some kind of a pathological spinelessness to hide behind an alt here when your anonymity is already protected by a game toon. DonÆt you believe in the righteousness of what youÆre demanding? What are you afraid of? Razin, this is my main character, I started playing a week ago. I pointed this out in my post. Honestly Razin, the way you are hijacking this thread spamming nonsense, is that not the definition of a troll? Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.01 23:22:00 - [23] Originally by: CyberGh0st Edited by: CyberGh0st on 01/10/2006 22:08:39 Originally by: Razin Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Razin Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. nonono you are confused by the surface simularity to your own typical post, but the OP distinquished their post by not trolling or trying to derail the thread so as to cause a lock. now back to the subject at hand, what will ccp say about the scandle, if anything... I say ccp will say and do nothing, but ccp can prove me wrong at anytime (we can hope). At the very least I'm not posting with an alt. It takes some kind of a pathological spinelessness to hide behind an alt here when your anonymity is already protected by a game toon. DonÆt you believe in the righteousness of what youÆre demanding? What are you afraid of? Razin, this is my main character, I started playing a week ago. I pointed this out in my post. Honestly Razin, the way you are hijacking this thread spamming nonsense, is that not the definition of a troll? Greetings, CyberGh0st. O RLY! And this is the first issue that you decided to inquire about? Especially charming is your concern for ill received ISK! Pathetic. ...
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.01 23:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Razin Originally by: CyberGh0st Edited by: CyberGh0st on 01/10/2006 22:08:39 Originally by: Razin Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Razin Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. nonono you are confused by the surface simularity to your own typical post, but the OP distinquished their post by not trolling or trying to derail the thread so as to cause a lock. now back to the subject at hand, what will ccp say about the scandle, if anything... I say ccp will say and do nothing, but ccp can prove me wrong at anytime (we can hope). At the very least I'm not posting with an alt. It takes some kind of a pathological spinelessness to hide behind an alt here when your anonymity is already protected by a game toon. DonÆt you believe in the righteousness of what youÆre demanding? What are you afraid of? Razin, this is my main character, I started playing a week ago. I pointed this out in my post. Honestly Razin, the way you are hijacking this thread spamming nonsense, is that not the definition of a troll? Greetings, CyberGh0st. O RLY! And this is the first issue that you decided to inquire about? Especially charming is your concern for ill received ISK! Pathetic. ISK Sellers' supporter!!onetwoneone
Razin	Posted - 2006.10.01 23:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Exiled One Originally by: Razin Originally by: CyberGh0st Edited by: CyberGh0st on 01/10/2006 22:08:39 Originally by: Razin Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Razin Jeeze, not this **** again. The OP is the definition of an alt troll. nonono you are confused by the surface simularity to your own typical post, but the OP distinquished their post by not trolling or trying to derail the thread so as to cause a lock. now back to the subject at hand, what will ccp say about the scandle, if anything... I say ccp will say and do nothing, but ccp can prove me wrong at anytime (we can hope). At the very least I'm not posting with an alt. It takes some kind of a pathological spinelessness to hide behind an alt here when your anonymity is already protected by a game toon. DonÆt you believe in the righteousness of what youÆre demanding? What are you afraid of? Razin, this is my main character, I started playing a week ago. I pointed this out in my post. Honestly Razin, the way you are hijacking this thread spamming nonsense, is that not the definition of a troll? Greetings, CyberGh0st. O RLY! And this is the first issue that you decided to inquire about? Especially charming is your concern for ill received ISK! Pathetic. ISK Sellers' supporter!!onetwoneone That's a hell of a leap in logic. Quote me where I express this support or STFU. ...
Darkenral	Posted - 2006.10.01 23:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Darkenral on 01/10/2006 23:55:11 Weather the OP is an alt or not is irrelevant. The fact that all we get is a canned answer from a FAQ is the more important thing here. Is it really so hard to post a blog X amount of isk was farmed via the exploit X amount of accounts banned X amount of acounts suspended X amount of macroers banned this week Then again its probably pretty hard to do if no action is being taken. Dark
Gothikia Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.02 00:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Darkenral Edited by: Darkenral on 01/10/2006 23:55:11 Weather the OP is an alt or not is irrelevant. The fact that all we get is a canned answer from a FAQ is the more important thing here. Is it really so hard to post a blog X amount of isk was farmed via the exploit X amount of accounts banned X amount of acounts suspended X amount of macroers banned this week Then again its probably pretty hard to do if no action is being taken. Dark tbh i'd rather have CCP work on the game, rather than post information such as bans when there is no point because it will just cause more trolling posts because peeps like yourself wont be happy their not doing enough, and peeps like me would be saying, "i'd rather have them fix the bugs, ship Revelations and improve the general performace of tranquility".
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.02 00:55:00 - [28] Edited by: Deja Thoris on 02/10/2006 00:59:01 Edited by: Deja Thoris on 02/10/2006 00:57:58 Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Oh please be sensible Wrangler, no one is asking for the names of the players banned. Oveur has previously posted things like "blah blah people were banned for macromining last month" A similar post to reassure an increasingly disillusioned community that exploits like this does not go unpunished would be nice. xx number of characters banned xx ISK confiscated and used to buy exotic dancers xxx was done to the plexes in question Seriously, I don't condone it but I can understand why people go to the lengths they do (dumping shuttles in Jita) to get anything other than tight lipped silence and stone-walling out of CCP. Think about it, people have been fighting tooth and nail over a region. Only to find out their opponents had a magically never ending ISK pot. People think it made a mockery of their in-game efforts and confirmation or denial of this would be appropriate. Edited for spelling
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.02 01:32:00 - [29] Edited by: DukDodgerz on 02/10/2006 01:32:50 Originally by: Deja Thoris Edited by: Deja Thoris on 02/10/2006 00:59:01 Edited by: Deja Thoris on 02/10/2006 00:57:58 Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Oh please be sensible Wrangler, no one is asking for the names of the players banned. Oveur has previously posted things like "blah blah people were banned for macromining last month" A similar post to reassure an increasingly disillusioned community that exploits like this does not go unpunished would be nice. xx number of characters banned xx ISK confiscated and used to buy exotic dancers xxx was done to the plexes in question Seriously, I don't condone it but I can understand why people go to the lengths they do (dumping shuttles in Jita) to get anything other than tight lipped silence and stone-walling out of CCP. Think about it, people have been fighting tooth and nail over a region. Only to find out their opponents had a magically never ending ISK pot. People think it made a mockery of their in-game efforts and confirmation or denial of this would be appropriate. Edited for spelling ccp couldn't care less. If ccp feels it better to keep subscriptions of those using exploits repeated times, then they will, it is their business, let them run it the way they wish too.
DefJam101	Posted - 2006.10.02 01:40:00 - [30] Nothing wrong with the policy. CCP is definetly right to keep these things secret unless the account owner tells them otherwise... They can't go around ranting about how they ban all these people, it's a company after all they do have to have some dignity. I'm sad to say it but back in my WoW days (I went from WoW-To Auto Assault, which collapsed sending me to-EVE) I used a bot so I could level at the same pace as my guildies. I knew it was wrong but I didn't really have a choice, I didn't have enough time to play. Eventually the bot got detected and I was banned etc. etc. I wouldn't want BLizzard flying around the forums telling people how they banned me. Guess it was fate since that skewed me towards EVE, the god of all games \o/ Who knows, maybe if it weren't for that I'd still be WoWing :(
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.02 01:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Blah blah blah. We'd rather scare people than adress valid issues...
Treelox Amarr Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.10.02 01:48:00 - [32] Originally by: DefJam101 I wouldn't want BLizzard flying around the forums telling people how they banned me. actually for at least the first year that WoW was commercial, monthly they put out a release on the blizzard site (not WoW's) that listed total number of accounts active, activated, cancelled, and banned. No names were given, nor reasons for anything, just pure simple facts. Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.02 02:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: DefJam101 I wouldn't want BLizzard flying around the forums telling people how they banned me. actually for at least the first year that WoW was commercial, monthly they put out a release on the blizzard site (not WoW's) that listed total number of accounts active, activated, cancelled, and banned. No names were given, nor reasons for anything, just pure simple facts. CCP seems to want to put their collective 'heads in the sand'. Ignoring an issue makes it all better, right? More seroiusly it's high time CCP takes on the CONTINUING performance problems and stop shooting flak to disauade discussion. Fix the current performance problems before working on 'other features'. Assign more devs to server stability/performance and THEN work on features. The excuse that there's not enough resources to 'fix' it all is running thin. Put more resources into bugfixing and server performance before allocating more programmers to new features. Fix what is wrong first. The game is nothing if everyone is lagged out. Get your priorities straigh FFS.

Serathu Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.10.02 02:56:00 - [34] Thread cleaned. Please leave out the personal attacks, trolling and off-topic discussion. Thank you! \| Forum Rules \| CAOD Rules \| CRC Website \| [email protected] \|

CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.02 07:19:00 - [35] Thanks for cleaning the thread. :p So recap : 1. CCP fixed the issue, and told us this ( forgot where but they did ) So that was the 1st step. 2. CCP has released info about banned accounts before ( no names ), so it would be nice they do this again, and additionally tell people what happened with ( some of ) the ill gained ISK. 3. No one is asking for names, so people learn to read and stop telling that ccp should not release names and ccp stop quoting that you wont give names, cause we didnt ask for names, we dont even want any names !!! 4. Finally when you ( CCP ) are ready to answer, do this on the news page so everyone can read it. ( or make links in the news page to the dev blogs like you are doing lately ) 5. All of this better sooner then later :p Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 07:25:00 - [36] Even if they published the names of banned mains, what does that have to do with privacy? I can assure you that Malachon Draco is not my name in reallife, and any ability of anyone to connect my ingame name to my reallife name is only possible if I give out more information about myself. But even if CCP won't do that, telling us the amount of ISK removed, the amount of assets removed and the number of accounts banned has absolutely NOTHING to do with any privacy being violated.
Estelle Matsuko Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc	Posted - 2006.10.02 08:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Malachon Draco But even if CCP won't do that, telling us the amount of ISK removed, the amount of assets removed and the number of accounts banned has absolutely NOTHING to do with any privacy being violated. I¦d agree with that.
Estelle Matsuko Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc	Posted - 2006.10.02 08:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Worst cop out ever. All it does is causes resentment to fester amongst the rest of the player base as they percieve no action (again) being taken against cheaters and exploiters.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.02 09:00:00 - [39] My prediction: 0 account beeing banned 0 isk beeing removed 0 assets beeing removed 1847 polite questions not to do it again beeing made From Dusk till Dawn
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.10.02 09:17:00 - [40] Originally by: CyberGh0st Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Wrangler, of course you do not post any names ... No one wants a witch hunt, all I ask is to inform us with "X amount of accounts were banned for X amount of time" or "The exploiting was not severe enough for any bans but we removed large portions of the ill gained ISK" or anything ... Eventually even Mythic realised they had to inform the player with such info ( was regarding radar users ) So no names, just numbers and measures. Honestly quoting a Faq is not gonna help with an exploit of this magnitude. Please dont go the SOE way. Greetings, CyberGh0st. and just what will your demand do for the eve community? make you feel better? you sound like a child jumping up and down because he knows his little friend got something and he didnt. or someone has a secret and you want to know too. are you so addled simple lines of thought are not avaiable to you? you demand? ccp do this, all under the guise of a what? a heated suggestion bordering threat. why dont you take a step back and not imerse yourself so much in the game, your thinking like alot is owed to you, and that just isnt so. if your underwear are too tight buy yourself the next size up, your problems obviously stem from that.
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.02 10:27:00 - [41] CCP gives us patch notes CCP gives us DEV blogs CCP gives us info about hardware upgrades CCP gives us info about new player online records Why not frequently info about a very important job they have: keep the game clean of cheaters, macrominers, esploiters and smacktalkers. As long CCP does not frequently give info about this, most players will think that CCP does not seriously fight on this battlefield. I want to add that CCP can be proud if they banned 2000 macrominers. It¦s part of CCPs work like HW-upgrades and patches to keep EVE tidy. So infos about the game security are good! A referee in soccer does also SHOW HIS PRESENCE. And to show presence is good to keep other players away from foul play. A Soccer game without referee showing presence would quickly look like Rugby or Kung Fu - but not like soccer. And EVE without the GMs presence would quickly look like an ISK-farm. One look on Ebay says it all. CCP should get much more aggressive against foul play and should show it that they have no mercy with cheaters. No names, but show presence! Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Treble Top	Posted - 2006.10.02 10:33:00 - [42] Edited by: Treble Top on 02/10/2006 10:34:08 They arn't called CCCP for nothing.... As far as they are concerned, its no longer an issue. Pretty sad that they no longer have any integrity left.
ZiggyX	Posted - 2006.10.02 10:40:00 - [43] Blizzard has always been posting numbers of accounts banned. They have been doing it for almost ten years, with Starcraft, Brood War, Diablo II, Warcraft 3, and now with WoW. It is a smart thing to do. The banned accounts recieve anonymity, while Blizzard shows how active they are in policing and cleaning up the game. However, I know CCP are not going to do it, why? For over 3 years, I've witnessed many critical bug exploits, macros, and large exploit farming operations that were brought directly to senior GM teams and CCP staff, where it was acknowledged that action would be taken. One client patch and/or server hotfix later, the exploit would be gone, but nobody would be banned. There are ugly things that go on behind doors at CCP. Things that get swept under the rug. I have faith in Eve, but not in CCP.
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:07:00 - [44] 1 account suspended due to be disposed of permanently. Just selling the assets on the next account and then thats it for me and EVE after three years. If CCP want a game where people buy themselves ahead and freely exploit to keep their patch of 0.0 then goodluck. There are some new mmorpgs on the horizon. EVE its on its last planned upgrade anyway and they have another game in development. We knew before Castor was loaded there would be a Kali. There are no planned upgrades after Kali so after that it'll just be tinkering. EVE is in its twilight years for the west. CCP are raking it in from the China server. They just need to squeeze out the last bit of profit from tranquility which means not dishing out bans. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:36:00 - [45] After 3 years its pretty clear to me... Its not what you are allowed to do, but what you can get away with doing... "..Red Alliance aren't better pilots...just better exploiters..." Trading 101
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:21:00 - [46] Regardless of the technicalties of the bug/exploit and the punishment for that. It would be nice to know where all that ISK went. Are RA really bad pilots that have lost all that in ships? --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:48:00 - [47] I dont understand why these threads keep popping up. CCP doesn't care about exploits, macros, Goons using Friends list hacs, etc. Its just the way it is. Banning makes them lose money. Same goes for ebay isk sellers and the like. EVE is only MMO where it's actually legitimate to make a real life living off of it. If you're that concerned about it Cyberghost, I suggest you find another game. EVE can't handle the amount of players we have now anyways. Make sure to donate your isk to me before you leave. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime Originally by: Boldyn Edited by: Boldyn on 26/09/2006 17:50:19 Lag in EVE gets w
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Centurin I dont understand why these threads keep popping up. CCP doesn't care about exploits, macros, Goons using Friends list hacs, etc. Its just the way it is. Banning makes them lose money. Same goes for ebay isk sellers and the like. EVE is only MMO where it's actually legitimate to make a real life living off of it. If you're that concerned about it Cyberghost, I suggest you find another game. EVE can't handle the amount of players we have now anyways. Make sure to donate your isk to me before you leave. Thanks. Troll
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Lifewire CCP gives us patch notes CCP gives us DEV blogs CCP gives us info about hardware upgrades CCP gives us info about new player online records Why not frequently info about a very important job they have: keep the game clean of cheaters, macrominers, esploiters and smacktalkers. As long CCP does not frequently give info about this, most players will think that CCP does not seriously fight on this battlefield. I want to add that CCP can be proud if they banned 2000 macrominers. It¦s part of CCPs work like HW-upgrades and patches to keep EVE tidy. So infos about the game security are good! A referee in soccer does also SHOW HIS PRESENCE. And to show presence is good to keep other players away from foul play. A Soccer game without referee showing presence would quickly look like Rugby or Kung Fu - but not like soccer. And EVE without the GMs presence would quickly look like an ISK-farm. One look on Ebay says it all. CCP should get much more aggressive against foul play and should show it that they have no mercy with cheaters. No names, but show presence! Well said, exactly my point.

Oveur	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:05:00 - [50] How many we ban and for what is entirely internal information and personally I find it a bit weird when companies brag about how many people they banned, which is why you do not see us doing it that often. That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. And then people ask, "I reported dude X and he hasn't been banned yet" and so forth and so on. There can be a lot of reasons, which might not be readily apparent, but just to name a few, the support load is high - like the 7000+ cases we've had the last months (believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account), he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) or, and this one might come as a surprise - he was investigated and wasn't doing anything wrong. So relax, take a deep breath - and realize that there might be more reasons for something not happening like you imagined than us not giving a flying ... urhm ... dutchman. Senior Producer EVE Online

Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:15:00 - [51] Thank you.
R'adeh Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:25:00 - [52] Now that's something I like to hear. Thank you! __________________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:27:00 - [53] Edited by: Death Kill on 02/10/2006 14:28:05 Edited by: Death Kill on 02/10/2006 14:27:49 Originally by: Oveur believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account Do you have any numbers on how many petitions made by paying customers regards trial accounts/exploiters? Also, wouldnt responding to petitions about isk farmers qualefy as 'helping out paying customers'? I just cant seam to seperate the two. I offer great smelling flowers
Ombey Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Oveur That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Well, that's one in the eye for the "OMG, CCP don't ban ppl cos they want their subscriptions!!!!one" crowd. -- ombeve
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:38:00 - [55] Originally by: Orri Sarikusa 1 account suspended due to be disposed of permanently. Just selling the assets on the next account and then thats it for me and EVE after three years. If CCP want a game where people buy themselves ahead and freely exploit to keep their patch of 0.0 then goodluck. There are some new mmorpgs on the horizon. EVE its on its last planned upgrade anyway and they have another game in development. We knew before Castor was loaded there would be a Kali. There are no planned upgrades after Kali so after that it'll just be tinkering. Just because they haven't told us the name of the expansion after Revelations, it doesn't neccessarily mean that there won't be one. Quote: EVE is in its twilight years for the west. People said Eve was dying three years ago when the peak number of players was five thousand. Quote: CCP are raking it in from the China server. They just need to squeeze out the last bit of profit from tranquility which means not dishing out bans. I heard that the Chinese game wasn't doing as well as expected. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Ombey Originally by: Oveur That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Well, that's one in the eye for the "OMG, CCP don't ban ppl cos they want their subscriptions!!!!one" crowd. Dont you know? You can pay for subscriptions with isk. I offer great smelling flowers
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Ombey Originally by: Oveur That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Well, that's one in the eye for the "OMG, CCP don't ban ppl cos they want their subscriptions!!!!one" crowd. Dont you know? You can pay for subscriptions with isk. Yeah but that number includes Trial accounts. But then again, perhaps CCP are running a Sting operation on the plex exploiters, following the trail. Then again, perhaps not :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Ombey Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:42:00 - [58] Originally by: Death Kill Dont you know? You can pay for subscriptions with isk. Not sure what your point is though. A lot of ppl whine on here about CCP not doing anything because they like the subs. My comment was aimed at those ppl who haven't thought it through. As for the banned accounts, if they've been paid for with ISK, then that's also brilliant that they've been banned, and lost ISK in the process. -- ombeve
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:53:00 - [59] Edited by: Death Kill on 02/10/2006 14:54:11 Originally by: Ombey Not sure what your point is though. A lot of ppl whine on here about CCP not doing anything because they like the subs. My comment was aimed at those ppl who haven't thought it through. I know, the comment wasn't aimed at you personally, I guess what I wanted to say didn't translate as well into English :) Anyhow, point is that the whole argument you refered to about people saying CCP wouldn't do anything because of loss of income is non existant since farmers can easily buy their own time codes and pay the game for free edit : Quote: Yeah but that number includes Trial accounts. But then again, perhaps CCP are running a Sting operation on the plex exploiters, following the trail. Then again, perhaps not :) Ahh that would have been so cool =) I offer great smelling flowers
Estelle Matsuko Caldari The Beiatch Corp Inc	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:00:00 - [60] Edited by: Estelle Matsuko on 02/10/2006 15:01:39 Originally by: Oveur How many we ban and for what is entirely internal information and personally I find it a bit weird when companies brag about how many people they banned, which is why you do not see us doing it that often. That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. And then people ask, "I reported dude X and he hasn't been banned yet" and so forth and so on. There can be a lot of reasons, which might not be readily apparent, but just to name a few, the support load is high - like the 7000+ cases we've had the last months (believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account), he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) or, and this one might come as a surprise - he was investigated and wasn't doing anything wrong. So relax, take a deep breath - and realize that there might be more reasons for something not happening like you imagined than us not giving a flying ... urhm ... dutchman. 5 minutes of your time and you lower the collective bloodpressure of the playerbase by at least 5 points. Thankyou.
DETOVI Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:52:00 - [61] Originally by: Oveur helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account I don't disagree but, we ALL know these threads refer to the Complex exploiters .. RA to be precise, not trial accounts. How about those stats ?
Lifewire Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:09:00 - [62] @Ovreur: Be proud of it! It is CCPs work like a server upgrade is. And people are interested as much as they are for server upgrade blogs. I cannot imagine that fair players do not enjoy to read you banned 2000+ this month! Cleaning the playerbase of cheaters is one of CCPs key jobs, so nothing to be ashamed of. If i were you, i would monthly invest 5 minutes and publish a DEV blog or lets say a GM blog about what has been done to keep EVE tidy. An the community will like it. 2000+ bans is a good work! Keep kicking them Better have 20K online that love EVE instead of having 30K online that cause lag, only use EVE as ISK/$ machine and cause massive damage to the game. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Kedryn Caitin	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:33:00 - [63] Originally by: Oveur How many we ban and for what is entirely internal information and personally I find it a bit weird when companies brag about how many people they banned, which is why you do not see us doing it that often. That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. Thank you for the reply Oveur, though I notice it does not specifiy if any were in relation to the exploit. I do understand the perception of bragging such announcements bring. It is one reason I could care less for regular announcements of such things. But this is not a case of we have banned X accounts for various reasons, mainly macros or some such. The reason there is an outcry and a desire to know something is going on is that it was due to a specific bug, the potential for a large amount of isk to be generated, the time frame it was carried out over, the fact that it was reported months earlier and fell through the ***** and the advantage it gave a small, concentrated group of people. Macroing and farming for money sales is part of every MOG. It is just fact. Once you are successful enough they will show up and you will not get rid of them all. I agree that putting heavy time into trying is counter-productive. But there is also the fact that the damage they might do is spread out. Persons A, B and C buy isk and are in corps X, Y and Z. While corps can make the decision to spend real money on isk to get ahead it is limited buy the funds the corp is willing and able to field in real life. In this case you have a group that controls 8 of 9 bugged complexes. One of two things is happening. The isk is being sold and they are making money out of game. I could really care less about that scenario. While distasteful, it is the same as other isk farmers. The second scenario is that they use the isk to further themselves in game. This puts corps and alliances at a severe disadvantage and also discourages others from getting into that aspect of the game where you can be overcome not through a better corp with solid infrastructure but just one with massive isk from a tiny risk exploit. In cases of extreme exploit the player base that follows the rules wants some reassurance that it does not pay to break the EULA. While people will always gripe about farmers and isk sales, it does not have exactly the same level of personal impact as losing a war, massive assets and maybe space to an alliance that is cheating and shown a willingness to use any exploit to their advantage over an extended period of time. So if the company does not want to toot its horn and flex its muscles on regular accouncements about general bans, that is all cool. People will gripe anyway, it is a fact of life. When it comes to something like this last issue, especially where it appears that the information was available to CCP and just got missed in the shuffle, I hope you can see the difference from a player's perspective and the urgent need to know that what we strive for is not marginalized by cheaters.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:36:00 - [64] Originally by: Red Ochre Originally by: CyberGh0st Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Wrangler, of course you do not post any names ... No one wants a witch hunt, all I ask is to inform us with "X amount of accounts were banned for X amount of time" or "The exploiting was not severe enough for any bans but we removed large portions of the ill gained ISK" or anything ... Eventually even Mythic realised they had to inform the player with such info ( was regarding radar users ) So no names, just numbers and measures. Honestly quoting a Faq is not gonna help with an exploit of this magnitude. Please dont go the SOE way. Greetings, CyberGh0st. and just what will your demand do for the eve community? make you feel better? you sound like a child jumping up and down because he knows his little friend got something and he didnt. or someone has a secret and you want to know too. are you so addled simple lines of thought are not avaiable to you? you demand? ccp do this, all under the guise of a what? a heated suggestion bordering threat. why dont you take a step back and not imerse yourself so much in the game, your thinking like alot is owed to you, and that just isnt so. if your underwear are too tight buy yourself the next size up, your problems obviously stem from that. You need to take a step back. This isn't your typical "ccp, I demand" thread. What that information will do for the game, and the community is let us players know for sure if CCP is serious about this game. And about enforcing the rules that make the game playable. There are many people, myself included that would have a pretty hard time swallowing that no action was taken on this subject. ALL that does is tell the exploiters that they did the right thing. And tel the rest of us that we should be looking for exploits rather than trying to play within the bounds of the game. It's bad enough that certain things basicly go unpunished. If full on exploiting to make billions of isk goes unpunished why should I continue to play fair? Given the choice between playing fair and playing for all advantage, I choose to play fair ONLY becauase CCP might ban me otherwise. But apperently I don't have to worry about that. The message that CCP is sending right now with reguard to this incident is that they won't punish exploits on a large scale. Which also means that you'll see ever increasing amounts of exploiting. The rules don't stop people, the threat of punishment does. That threat is disolving very quickly. I don't want names. I don't care. I want to be told that CCP has banned some people, or stipped their assets. Privacy has nothing to do with this. Wether or not CCP has taken any action against CHEATERS is the point. And if they don't, thats an invitation for every to start cheating. CCP- This is a turning point. You may not see it, but it is. Fix this, as you would want it fixed, or you will (further) aggravate your player base. Which is something you can ill afford right now. We love you CCP. But this is important to us. VERY important. And it's important to your game. This is the differance between going forward into a brave new world. Or going backward into exploiter haven. No one wants to see exploiting become the norm. But part of that means PUBLICLY enforcing the rules you've set out. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:39:00 - [65] Edited by: Weirda on 02/10/2006 16:41:45 Thank you for the reply "O". many of the reply and further question after his statement (many - not all) are very good example of why they tend not to answer these type of question in first place. ie more speculation, more questions, overanalyze of sentence or 2 in post. it is anyones right to ask what they feel they want to - but if you want more communication, and not less... think about why they might choose to just not bother. Weirda have nothing against these post - we all love EVE. but personally happy with info that we DO get, and hate to see that reduced. @someone - c'mon now, is there really any question that CCP and the devs aren't serious about EVE? this is no 'fanweirda' statement, but honestly they make a lot of RL sacrifices due to their love, and it is obvious. you point isn't diminished, but those sorts of statements are real turnoff and IWHO, unnecessary. we all in it together __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now Stealth Bomber Tweaks
Sean Dillon Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:42:00 - [66] I petioned some macroers early july, CCP said they would look into them. They are still around, I know where they are. Go to Shihuken, 50% of the macroers are happely extracting ice ore there. I am 200% sure that 90% of the people mining there are making a living from it. These guys prolly have been reported over a hundred of times to CCP yet they do jack about it. If you dont belive me go look there for yourself. I do belive that CCP banns people, but I am not sure if they do it in this area.
Zak Bryn	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:45:00 - [67] Originally by: Orri Sarikusa There are no planned upgrades after Kali so after that it'll just be tinkering. Funny, I heard there's some like 10 yearsof planned expansions for Eve.... An interview given by one of CCP I think it was.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Weirda Edited by: Weirda on 02/10/2006 16:41:45 Thank you for the reply "O". many of the reply and further question after his statement (many - not all) are very good example of why they tend not to answer these type of question in first place. ie more speculation, more questions, overanalyze of sentence or 2 in post. it is anyones right to ask what they feel they want to - but if you want more communication, and not less... think about why they might choose to just not bother. Weirda have nothing against these post - we all love EVE. but personally happy with info that we DO get, and hate to see that reduced. @someone - c'mon now, is there really any question that CCP and the devs aren't serious about EVE? this is no 'fanweirda' statement, but honestly they make a lot of RL sacrifices due to their love, and it is obvious. you point isn't diminished, but those sorts of statements are real turnoff and IWHO, unnecessary. we all in it together Under normal circumstances, I'm happy with whatever CCP deams fit for the community to know. This was IMO, a special case of WIDE SPREAD and high impact exploiting, and deserved some special attention. Frankly, I personally would have been happy if Oveur simply said "It's being taken care of". Seriously, NO ONE has said that until just now, and thats all most of us wanted. To know that it is indeed not being swept under the rug and ignored. You ask if there is any doubt about how seriously CCP treats this game. Right now. NO! Not even a shread. Before Oveur posted, I was beging to wonder. My faith is renewed and I'm a happy pod pilot. Communication on issues like this is important. No, it's REQUIRED. I don't need to know how it turned out with every report of exploiting. I don't really care. One pilot more or less banned makes 0 differance in the long run. Whats important is that when community wide information about major exploiting is released, then we need community wide assurance that it's being handled appropriately. CCP has no need to release information regularly about cheaters being banned. If they don't want to, then thats fine. But every once in a while, we need to hear that something is being done. If it's all going on behind closed doors, people start thinking they can get away with things. All it takes is a blurb now and then to quash alot of that. Not all of it, certainly. But enough. As I said before. This is less about complex exploiting and more about enforcement. CCP has decided to do most of the enforecemnt behind closed doors. And thats fine. But other games recognize the usefullness of posting those numbers regularly. That is because rules are enforced by threat. If you back off that threat (publicly) then you open the door to more people doing things they know they shouldn't be doing. Thats CCP's choice to make. And whatever they choose is fine by me. But in cases like this, with wide spread impact on the game itself, we need to hear SOMETHING. And obviously, Oveur agrees, or he wouldn't have posted. I'm what you might call a fan boi. But my fanaticism has limits. And I all I require to continue to be a fan is a blurb like the one above. Sure, others will have questions, and they will likely be ignored. But thats cool, we got exactly what we asked for. The security in knowledge that CCP is indeed doing something. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:32:00 - [69] the big "O" has spoken! glad to see he is aware of the issue at hand. but I doubt the bans mentioned are in any way shape or form related to the issue this topic is about, complex exploit abuse. the number is is closer to what you would expect to see in relation to temp-trial accounts used to spam isk selling sites and other isk selling crud. is this a good thing to see, why yes it is. does it indicate that the exploiters of the complex have or will be punished....NO it doesn't. I can see how mentioning that they "banned all those involved" would embarras the well known exploiter group, since we know who it is, but it leaves doubt in many minds if anything will be done in this game breaking exploit issue. so let ccp handle the issue and related news released to us, how they wish, and you can handle your own personal subscriptions how you wish.
Missie Moomingirl	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:39:00 - [70] Out of the 2300 banned accounts last month, how many were trial accounts? Better yet, how many were paid for accounts?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:43:00 - [71] Originally by: Darkenral Edited by: Darkenral on 01/10/2006 23:55:11 Weather the OP is an alt or not is irrelevant. The fact that all we get is a canned answer from a FAQ is the more important thing here. Is it really so hard to post a blog X amount of isk was farmed via the exploit X amount of accounts banned X amount of acounts suspended X amount of macroers banned this week Then again its probably pretty hard to do if no action is being taken. Dark As long as action was taken, I wouldn't care about seeing a blog on it, but seeing such information would be interesting. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:51:00 - [72] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 02/10/2006 17:52:56 Originally by: Oveur That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. Does that mean GS got in trouble for their client modifications? On a serious note, holy **, that's alot of accounts. Oveur, dunno if you'll end up seeing this reply, but one thing to mention: Yes, bans are interna and it may feel weird to you to tell people your bannage stats, however not doing so will just cause the naysayers to get louder and louder. You may end macroing and farming completely, but if you never say so, people will still think it happens, and places that talk about EVE won't beable tyo mention "CCP doesn't take from cheaters". Giving out such info makes CCP look better, and it makes EVE look better. Don't you think it'd be good for EVE to give out such info so that, if nothing else, it counteracts any damage that may be done to the EVE-Online image due to players spouting off crap? A lie repeated enough will become the truth for the masses. EDIT: It's never a bad thing to show people how hard you swing the ban hammer. Originally by:** kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. Originally by: Oveur last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.
Missie Moomingirl	Posted - 2006.10.02 18:35:00 - [73] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 02/10/2006 17:52:56 Originally by: Oveur That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. Does that mean GS got in trouble for their client modifications? On a serious note, holy **, that's alot of accounts. Oveur, dunno if you'll end up seeing this reply, but one thing to mention: Yes, bans are interna and it may feel weird to you to tell people your bannage stats, however not doing so will just cause the naysayers to get louder and louder. You may end macroing and farming completely, but if you never say so, people will still think it happens, and places that talk about EVE won't beable tyo mention "CCP doesn't take ** from cheaters". Giving out such info makes CCP look better, and it makes EVE look better. Don't you think it'd be good for EVE to give out such info so that, if nothing else, it counteracts any damage that may be done to the EVE-Online image due to players spouting off crap? A lie repeated enough will become the truth for the masses. EDIT: It's never a bad thing to show people how hard you swing the ban hammer. I thought that was amazing also at first, then i remembered how many trial accounts must get banned from the isk selling spam and other numerous abuses.
Noveron Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.02 18:55:00 - [74] Oveur, I dont know why you are surprised.. People demand blood and killing once in a while. Banning is good news.. for some :)
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.10.02 19:27:00 - [75] It's called oversight from shareholders. Since we all pay money, CCP needs occasionally to convince us that they're doing the job that we expect them to do considering we're re-investing in the game every month. I know the fanbois are going to hammer this post for "teh eula saiz u pay 4 teh game, not serviec, nub" but if we were paying 14.95 a month for the ability to play the game, then there'd be no dev team, no customer support team, not ANY team. Just the players playing on the same hardware and software that was around back during beta.
Aurora Ming	Posted - 2006.10.02 19:54:00 - [76] I think the worst of the grips is the isk sellers and macro-miners. They go hand-in-hand. Macro miners strip the belts which causes empire players alot of grief. And the isk sellers, I sware they have macro's running as you pass through systems to eve-mail you there offers. As for the complex, Explot? I guess it's how you view it. I suspect they slowed down the complex farming by keeping carrers/dreads from entering. But complexs are meant to be farmed, thats what there all about. Risk vs reward? I donno I jumped into an 8/10 several times and lost my ship every time. Takes lots of people with skills and team work to beat them. -John
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.02 20:44:00 - [77] Its not exactly a post regarding numbers that was required. Just a definitvie statement saying what was done was wrong and that the ring leaders would be dealt with as per the EULA. I doubt all those involved deserved a ban, punishments can be scaled. Instead we get a bit of a woolly statement with the odd offender coming on the forums telling us that it was none of our business and CCP let them off the hook. In situations where the offense can have far reaching consequences all we need is reassurance that CCP does the following :- 1) Fixes the bug (good job, maybe a bit late but if you say you didn't know then...) 2) Punish those responsible. Why did we have people on this forum saying that there was no offence committed? Because the original CCP statement was ambiguous. Now we get one from Oveur which has more detail than was actually needed and after all the EVE public got wound up about it. To be honest I think the community would tolerate lesser punishments thereby not hurting CCPs wallet if CCP seemed to come down hard. After all where is the deterent for exploiting. If we don't your policing EVE how does the prospective ebayer know? --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.02 20:59:00 - [78] Originally by: Aurora Ming I think the worst of the grips is the isk sellers and macro-miners. They go hand-in-hand. Macro miners strip the belts which causes empire players alot of grief. And the isk sellers, I sware they have macro's running as you pass through systems to eve-mail you there offers. As for the complex, Explot? I guess it's how you view it. I suspect they slowed down the complex farming by keeping carrers/dreads from entering. But complexs are meant to be farmed, thats what there all about. Risk vs reward? I donno I jumped into an 8/10 several times and lost my ship every time. Takes lots of people with skills and team work to beat them. -John wow, you missed the whole topic at hand that this thread is about...amazing...guess you didn't bother to read the thread, just commented on it...so here is the lowdown on the beef many have over this issue... The exploit was not farming, it was farming a bugged overseer that could spawn about 23 times a day (2 or 3 spawns a day is all it should have been), with loot and tier effects involved, that made the exploiters several billion a day in isk. this was done daily for several months if not a year. So farming for isk is not the issue, it is the abuse of a bug, i.e. exploiting, to gain advantage over the rest of the eve subscribers. unlimited isk = no way to defeat that is why so many are upset, they exploited, used the exploit to prevent others from defeating them. (some are just piissseeeedddd that they exploited to get trillions in isk) no means to counter the exploiters unless you were to use the exploit, which can't be done now that the spawn rate was 'fixed'.(and by the rules, would get you banned...) If the big "O" could release some numbers as to how many were banned, isk removed, items removed, so the masses knew that ccp was actualy doing something, then the viewpoint that ccp doesn't care would fade. As is, it still seems they did nothing, and will do nothing, to punish those that abused the overseer spawn bug (exploited). I can hope ccp proves me wrong! (please prove me wrong) but I do not see them banning the offenders nor removing the gains they made via the exploit.
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.02 21:26:00 - [79] Originally by: Oveur How many we ban and for what is entirely internal information and personally I find it a bit weird when companies brag about how many people they banned, which is why you do not see us doing it that often. That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. And then people ask, "I reported dude X and he hasn't been banned yet" and so forth and so on. There can be a lot of reasons, which might not be readily apparent, but just to name a few, the support load is high - like the 7000+ cases we've had the last months (believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account), he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) or, and this one might come as a surprise - he was investigated and wasn't doing anything wrong. So relax, take a deep breath - and realize that there might be more reasons for something not happening like you imagined than us not giving a flying ... urhm ... dutchman. Oveur, Noone really needs blow by blow report of bannings. As a whole community no-one cares about the odd exploit abuse or eula rule breaking buy a few pilots. We do care about large gamewide or wellknown exploits that affect thousands of players and we do want to know that soemthing is being done and some people are beign punished. -----
DETOVI Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.02 23:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail and we do want to know that soemthing is being done and some people are beign punished. And not concerned with trial account macrominer crap, but the COMPLEX EXPLOITERS. Did CCP perform ANY bans on the plex exploiters? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.03 00:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Aurora Ming As for the complex, Explot? I guess it's how you view it. I view farming an overseer that repops in under an hour, for months and months, at every complex of that type, to be an exploit. Considering most other Overseers, if not all others, spawn only 1-2 times a day tops, saying 'oh this one is working fine' doesn't cut it. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. Originally by: Oveur last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.03 00:21:00 - [82] Originally by: Oveur ... You said so much but told us so little :/ Were any of those 2.3k related to the exploited plexes? Was any action taken on the matter? I know you dont have to answer but the community does give a flying dutchman, I'm just the irritating one that keeps pestering
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.03 00:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Oveur ... You said so much but told us so little :/ Were any of those 2.3k related to the exploited plexes? Was any action taken on the matter? I know you dont have to answer but the community does give a flying dutchman, I'm just the irritating one that keeps pestering Well if he doesn't answer it here, someone can always chase him around FanFest asking. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. Originally by: Oveur last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.
Fliewatuet Angelus dos Business	Posted - 2006.10.03 00:59:00 - [84] Originally by: Oveur he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) Heh, my second account got banned on the 1st of october because someone with dirty money (prolly from some sort of scam that ccp doesn't allow) bought some of my escrow stuff. :-( At least it was unbanned the next day after i was... well... lets say it really isn't a pleasant experience to get banned for just trading. Lets hope my case was the only one they made an error. Regards, Fliewatuet -- NPC infos? Calculating DPS for a mission? Have a look at http://eve.neodoomer.de/npc/ and have fun.
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.03 08:48:00 - [85] Originally by: Oveur How many we ban and for what is entirely internal information and personally I find it a bit weird when companies brag about how many people they banned, which is why you do not see us doing it that often. That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. And then people ask, "I reported dude X and he hasn't been banned yet" and so forth and so on. There can be a lot of reasons, which might not be readily apparent, but just to name a few, the support load is high - like the 7000+ cases we've had the last months (believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account), he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) or, and this one might come as a surprise - he was investigated and wasn't doing anything wrong. So relax, take a deep breath - and realize that there might be more reasons for something not happening like you imagined than us not giving a flying ... urhm ... dutchman. Well, hmm maybe you have a point ... still not convinced ... why is it a problem to relay us a bit of information on such issues like you just did? Look at it from my side for example, I reported various players, and when I do not get any feedback on it, why would I keep reporting ? In any case thank you for informing us, my faith has been restored. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Fubear	Posted - 2006.10.03 10:56:00 - [86] Considering that taking advantage of the broken spawn times in those complexes was not an exploit (by CCPs definition), why do you think that any accounts were banned or any ISK was removed? By your logic, using carriers in Lvl4 missions was also exploiting a bug, and anyone who has ever used a carrier in lvl4 missions should be banned and their ISK removed.
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.03 11:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Fubear Considering that taking advantage of the broken spawn times in those complexes was not an exploit (by CCPs definition), why do you think that any accounts were banned or any ISK was removed? By your logic, using carriers in Lvl4 missions was also exploiting a bug, and anyone who has ever used a carrier in lvl4 missions should be banned and their ISK removed. ccp said it was an exploit. stop trolling with FUD in a hope to derail a thread.
Missie Moomingirl	Posted - 2006.10.03 11:54:00 - [88] Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Fubear Considering that taking advantage of the broken spawn times in those complexes was not an exploit (by CCPs definition), why do you think that any accounts were banned or any ISK was removed? By your logic, using carriers in Lvl4 missions was also exploiting a bug, and anyone who has ever used a carrier in lvl4 missions should be banned and their ISK removed. ccp said it was an exploit. stop trolling with FUD in a hope to derail a thread. I'm betting nobody who exploited the bug complex got banned.
Fubear	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:23:00 - [89] Edited by: Fubear on 03/10/2006 12:24:57 Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Fubear Considering that taking advantage of the broken spawn times in those complexes was not an exploit (by CCPs definition), why do you think that any accounts were banned or any ISK was removed? By your logic, using carriers in Lvl4 missions was also exploiting a bug, and anyone who has ever used a carrier in lvl4 missions should be banned and their ISK removed. ccp said it was an exploit. stop trolling with FUD in a hope to derail a thread. Please show me where a public annoucement was made labelling running hte complex an exploit? The closest I have seen was that post by Oveur a while back saying that if you don't report a bug you are breaking the EULA, which as stated in the EULA is not a bannable offence. You guys labelled it an exploit, not the devs, and now you are calling for vigelante justice. What the devs do and who gets banned for what are frankly none of your business. If someone is doing something wrong, then petition them and let the GMs handle it. Labelling an inddividual or group as an exploiter or ISK seller without a single shred of proof because CCP didn't take the action YOU WANT against them, is frankly sick and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. EDIT: Waht I mean to say is that if you petition someone, CCP will investigate and either punish the individual or not. It is not your place to dictate what happens and starting forum witch hunts over it is what I would call harrasment.
Pretty Polly	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:28:00 - [90] Edited by: Pretty Polly on 03/10/2006 12:35:07 ban all cheaters!
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:33:00 - [91] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Ombey Originally by: Oveur That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Well, that's one in the eye for the "OMG, CCP don't ban ppl cos they want their subscriptions!!!!one" crowd. Dont you know? You can pay for subscriptions with isk. Where do you think they get the timecards from, Father Christmas? Think. Then post.
Zooish	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:39:00 - [92] The problem with Eve is not the people exploiting the game, its the childish attitude that "most" of the Eve Player base has become. (just have a look at the trash on the forums). For the stupid and hard of listening ....... CCP will not and cannot publish a list of banned accounts. No matter how much you moan and groan they "will never" legally be able to do it. Period ...... Zip ....... CCP .. Please roll back the clock 3 years, as with only 5000 players the game was more stable and the forums more mature ...
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:58:00 - [93] Originally by: Fliewatuet Heh, my second account got banned on the 1st of october because someone with dirty money (prolly from some sort of scam that ccp doesn't allow) bought some of my escrow stuff. :-( Is this true?! Totally stupid and absurd! Hows this possible?! Someone with paid isk buys your stuff, and you suffer. G-A-Y! Unnerf Amarr!Ö "I read somewhere that Kali will be featuring turn-based combat to increase immersion." ¬ Waagaa Ktlehr
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:11:00 - [94] Originally by: Zooish For the stupid and hard of listening ....... CCP will not and cannot publish a list of banned accounts. No matter how much you moan and groan they "will never" legally be able to do it. Period ...... Zip ....... ... For the hard of reading and comprehension lacking thats not what was asked for
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:19:00 - [95] Originally by: Zooish The problem with Eve is not the people exploiting the game, its the childish attitude that "most" of the Eve Player base has become. (just have a look at the trash on the forums). For the stupid and hard of listening ....... CCP will not and cannot publish a list of banned accounts. No matter how much you moan and groan they "will never" legally be able to do it. Period ...... Zip ....... CCP .. Please roll back the clock 3 years, as with only 5000 players the game was more stable and the forums more mature ... Go train reading skill level 1 plz
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:29:00 - [96] Originally by: Fubear Edited by: Fubear on 03/10/2006 12:24:57 Originally by: DukDodgerz Originally by: Fubear Considering that taking advantage of the broken spawn times in those complexes was not an exploit (by CCPs definition), why do you think that any accounts were banned or any ISK was removed? By your logic, using carriers in Lvl4 missions was also exploiting a bug, and anyone who has ever used a carrier in lvl4 missions should be banned and their ISK removed. ccp said it was an exploit. stop trolling with FUD in a hope to derail a thread. Please show me where a public annoucement was made labelling running hte complex an exploit? The closest I have seen was that post by Oveur a while back saying that if you don't report a bug you are breaking the EULA, which as stated in the EULA is not a bannable offence. You guys labelled it an exploit, not the devs, and now you are calling for vigelante justice. What the devs do and who gets banned for what are frankly none of your business. If someone is doing something wrong, then petition them and let the GMs handle it. Labelling an inddividual or group as an exploiter or ISK seller without a single shred of proof because CCP didn't take the action YOU WANT against them, is frankly sick and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. EDIT: Waht I mean to say is that if you petition someone, CCP will investigate and either punish the individual or not. It is not your place to dictate what happens and starting forum witch hunts over it is what I would call harrasment. Perhaps you have a point that CCP never said the respawn rate bug was an exploit. Wether it was an exploit or not, it was a serious issue and players who pay each month for a game are entitled to get feedback regarding these issues. This is not just an online game, this is a mmorpg, and we, the players, are entitled to information regarding this online world as long as it does not invade someone else's privacy. It is just the way it is with mmorpg's, the players demand and are entitled to good feedback and information, and if you think otherwise, go look at all the other mmorpg's ... But I must agree that overall the information and service provided by CCP is above average compared to other MMORPG's. For me this case is closed. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:27:00 - [97] Originally by: Butter Dog Where do you think they get the timecards from, Father Christmas? Think. Then post. lol were you drunk when you posted that? I offer great smelling flowers
Zooish	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:29:00 - [98] Quote: Go train reading skill level 1 plz Only if you train "moaning like a girl Lvl 1" Stop filling up the forums with trash "we demand, we want, its unfair, boo hoo". If you have a issue email CCP and move on ..
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:42:00 - [99] Exactly CCP didn't label it an exploit when they should have. Hence its not the farmers thats at fault its CCP for the current disatisfaction. It was obviously an exploit compared to other bugs that have been labelled as such in the past three years. Most of the community if asked from a neutral standpoint would view it as an exploit. CCP want the cash so if a lot of people exploit they won't declare as such so they don't have ban anyone even it was obvious. So if you find a bug get as many people as you can to do it and you'll be fine. Kieron stated as much in the announcement about what you should do if you find an abnormal spawn. Thats was a back handed way of saying too many people have exploited this bug so we're not calling it one. So for all the farmers trying to get the thread locked your accounts are safe. The real beef is with another CCP u-turn on policy. Goes in the same bin as:- 1) You should not be able to buy your way ahead, GTC for sale! 2) Our GMs are professional that couldn't possibly be a GM in that rattlesnake. 3)We condone scamming, ere wait you can have your isk back this time but in future you can't. 4) Really 700mill ebayed. CCP plot lost, cya later. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Mysticaa Gallente Fringe Roamers of Goa	Posted - 2006.10.03 16:39:00 - [100] Originally by: Oveur And then people ask, "I reported dude X and he hasn't been banned yet" and so forth and so on. There can be a lot of reasons, which might not be readily apparent, but just to name a few, the support load is high - like the 7000+ cases we've had the last months (believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account), he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) or, and this one might come as a surprise - he was investigated and wasn't doing anything wrong. Biggest problem I have with your system is the lack of information that flows back from the petition system. If I report someone as a macrominer and you determine that he/she was not then please tell me so. Otherwise all I see is a macrominer that CCP does not want to do anything about. It is extremely fustrating to make petitions about people suspected to be macrominers and have absolutly no information coming back. Then seeing the same folk out there mining day after day. ----------------------------------------------- Why do I post here? Originally by: Tao Han "TANK CEO!!!" Quick Wrangler, to the Banmobile!!! Sig snatched by Xorus
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.03 22:39:00 - [101] found on the EO site: http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/banning.asp ------------------------------------------ 1. EXPLOITS An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if: * a. Investigation shows that a player has employed the use of an exploit tactic despite a public announcement being made to alert players they will be banned for using it. * b. A player who has been previously warned for exploiting and continues to exploit, whether using the same exploit or another. * c. An account holder guilty of employing ôdupingö exploits. Players found to have received the benefits of this exploit may also face reprimand, from removal of the items in question up to, and including, banning of their accounts. * d. A player has engaged in activity that intentionally causes others to lose connection, suffer latency issues (lag) or to crash to desktop (CTD). * e. A player renders himself invulnerable through the use of a bug. * f. A player has created, distributed or advertised an illegal 3rd party program (i.e. macro or cheat program) that disrupts game mechanics, is considered unfriendly or gives an unfair advantage by misusing game features in a way for which they were not intended. Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player: * a. Creates a character using a name that is misleading and causes others to believe he is a fair target, such as a non-player pirate or other NPC entity. * b. Is discovered to be employing the use of a third party program to macro illegally. Funds or goods received from the benefits of macroing are subject to removal from the playerÆs inventory. * c. Is aware of an exploitable bug and fails to report it to Game Masters and/or distributes the information to other players. ------------------------------------------ what I wonder is, why ccp is ignoring their own rules -they knew it was a bug, and exploited it -they knew it and got their freinds to join in on the exploit -they had been caught using lag inducing exploits and warned several times...nothing done so CCP, why ? you made the rules, posted the rules, for all to see, and even say ignorence is no excuse, so why the lack of justice? We still woud like to know you are working on it, and/or have banned guilty parties (no names needed, just numbers related to the offense mentioned in this topic)
Captain Lysander	Posted - 2006.10.03 22:50:00 - [102] Heh, 4 pages... To the OP, for what its worth. I think if you have a look at the Kali notes you will notice that Complex's are do to become random(?)...must be searched for etc... My point is they have said the current system is going to change. I believe it is their policy not to comment on exploits until "after" they have fixed them (i.e. the trade 'nerf'). Hope this helps
Marcus Brook D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.03 23:46:00 - [103] Originally by: Deja Thoris It was in my sig courtesy of someone else. If you bug report it they ignore you. If you post about it on the forums they ban you or sweep it under the carpet. If you perform the expolit you get rich. I think this sums it up. CCP have had plenty of time to communicate to their subscribers the extent of the damage done (or lack of) and the actions taken. Ah thats not fair. Its not like the lads and ladies(not sure if ccp has any) of CCP arent working they have been busting a nut to stop bad server lag over the last few weeks, which was pretty bad. They also have to get ready for the deadline of Kali which i cant wait for, and to deal with exploits privately bit by bit must be damm hard anyway its not for us to know if they take action or not as Wrangler said : Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. So keep up the good work Guys. Bring on Kali !
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.10.04 00:22:00 - [104] Honestly, after reading this and every other darn post on the matter I have come to the following conclusion: Forum trolls only want to get kills too. Unfortunately they aren't competant enough to get them in game so they will cry bloody murder till they are blue in the face to get XYZ people banned for something they considered 'not right in their world'. Anyhow, enough is enough. CCP did their thing, they actually have the power to go check things players do not (you know that investigative peice) and took/are taking the action they feel is appropriate. Lay off them, and if you don't like it, quit. It is that simple. Your opinion/voice/statements mean nothing other than wasted bandwidth. Forum trolling has gotten so bad that there is absolutely no expectation that CCP should even read them. Honestly, they should shut them down and use the resources elsewhere. And no, I don't support the complex exploitation but I do support CCP over the conjecture and gossip from a bunch of forum trolls.
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.04 04:05:00 - [105] Originally by: DropZone 187 Honestly, after reading this and every other darn post on the matter I have come to the following conclusion: Forum trolls only want to get kills too. Unfortunately they aren't competant enough to get them in game so they will cry bloody murder till they are blue in the face to get XYZ people banned for something they considered 'not right in their world'. Anyhow, enough is enough. CCP did their thing, they actually have the power to go check things players do not (you know that investigative peice) and took/are taking the action they feel is appropriate. Lay off them, and if you don't like it, quit. It is that simple. Your opinion/voice/statements mean nothing other than wasted bandwidth. Forum trolling has gotten so bad that there is absolutely no expectation that CCP should even read them. Honestly, they should shut them down and use the resources elsewhere. And no, I don't support the complex exploitation but I do support CCP over the conjecture and gossip from a bunch of forum trolls. if you honestly are against the use of exploits, read the history of the issue and stop assuming you know what has been happening. (then stop trolling yourself). I agree it is ccp's business, and if they want to run it that way, then they can, and honest players can choose to quit...it is a matter of choices on both sides
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 05:47:00 - [106] Would be neat to see a ticker somewhere on the webpage of the ongoing number of bans. Maybe some statistics for general categories if you track that sort of thing already. I hate complexes and cosmos generally, and it's annoying when I hear of corps abusing them when broken. If other people do it and get away with it, it's no longer optional, but mandatory. This really sucks when you absolutely despise any npcing or grinding. ECM
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.04 07:27:00 - [107] If CCP don't follow the rules how do you expect the player base to do the same? --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2006.10.04 15:41:00 - [108] I think it's safe to say we all want them LV numbers to drop some.
EchoTheDolphin	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:34:00 - [109] Originally by: Biglipz Edited by: Biglipz on 01/10/2006 19:18:57 Originally by: Wrangler Originally by: FAQ: Suspension & banning Suspensions and bans are private matters between CCP and the players involved. Even if players have done something wrong and we felt it necessary to suspend or ban them from EVE Online, we would not want to publicly humiliate them or deny them their privacy. Bans were not issued over the issue anyway, at least if they were they must have missed some people, i was watching one guy in paticular who would stay online 23 hours a day farming the old bugged complex, as soon as DT was over he would login and would stay till next dt, then the next dt he did the same again, he still plays eve all day. If he wasn't banned for exploiting, he should have been for account sharing. In the case of what happend with this bug, it was exploited to such a grand scale that the playerbase needs some kind of assurance that ccp has taken action. And you didn't petition? Well, you either don't care enough or are hoping GM's police every single player action in game (which is impossible)
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:00:00 - [110] Originally by: Fubear Please show me where a public annoucement was made labelling running hte complex an exploit? Read kieron's post. If you can't connect the dots, then get a T2 pencil. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. Originally by: Oveur last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:29:00 - [111] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Fubear Please show me where a public annoucement was made labelling running hte complex an exploit? Read kieron's post. If you can't connect the dots, then get a T2 pencil. Nice post! What I can not believe to be happening, is happening, ignorence is being the only defence the exploiters have to use, even though the bug was reported a year ago and the rules and proper resolutions are posted all over the EO site. Are rules and subsequent enforcement selectively based on some unknown criteria? I may be completely wrong but aren't rules to be enforced equaly on all players, regardless of excuses and or WHO they are. (Gm being fired recently for a rule violation indicates ccp seems to know rules are for all, but I could be wrong) As so many point out, we dont need a name-and-shame gallery/post, just info that offenders are punished (banned/items-isk removed) Now for a shocker...seems there were several groups abusing the bug (exploiting)...not just the one group even I thought were the only ones. Is the lack of ban stick wrath due to the large number of players and the high ranks they hold what is barring CCP from acting on the exploit abuse? Even the group I belong to would see many senior members banned and the group suffer greatly if the rules were enforced, but they knew what they were doing so can not defend their actions (ban if they deserve it CCP). 3 or 4 threads and several dozen pages all calling for the same thing, are a good indicater of what the majority of the players would like to see, the choice is CCP's to listen or ignore us.
ZiggyX	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:55:00 - [112] Originally by: Oveur How many we ban and for what is entirely internal information and personally I find it a bit weird when companies brag about how many people they banned, which is why you do not see us doing it that often. That being said, last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned. Why did I post it this time? Because I'm proving a point, we do ban thousands of people, the fact that we don't post about it doesn't mean we don't do it. And then people ask, "I reported dude X and he hasn't been banned yet" and so forth and so on. There can be a lot of reasons, which might not be readily apparent, but just to name a few, the support load is high - like the 7000+ cases we've had the last months (believe it or not, helping out a paying customer and lessening his wait is more important than banning a trial account), he's part of an ongoing investigation to get bigger fish and is therefore banned as part of a bigger raid (like on the 1st of october, 285 people were banned) or, and this one might come as a surprise - he was investigated and wasn't doing anything wrong. So relax, take a deep breath - and realize that there might be more reasons for something not happening like you imagined than us not giving a flying ... urhm ... dutchman. No offense Oveur, but I think CCP is running out of reasons for not doing anything. Remember the fabulous 'xploit farm that was m0o, and how much ** they put alliances through before Lord Zap was finally banned? Although I was gratified to see the Revrand(sp) begging for money to fill his negative wallet, m0o got away with so much cheating before action was finally taken. Damage-stacking exploit, for starters? Oh, how about all those alliances that lagfarm jetcans and bookmarks in front of gates? This kind of exploiting has been going on for over TWO YEARS without being *ed-down! Didn't you promise to hand out bans to certain BoB players for doing POS exploits in Delve? Knocking out certain structures to bug a POS into offlining? How many ships were hijacked through exploiting the POS shield bug? How many of these people did you ban? There were no investigations, no punishments, nothing! I certainly don't expect CCP to enforce any of the POS exploits that RA has been involved with. RA has been farming exploits since CASTOR. Remember all the billions they made from smartbomb-chaining spawns every two seconds? Unless you want to jog my memory, I think only 4 of them got issued bans, and one of them was uplifted. RA has been on a fearless cheating spree ever since! You may think it is impressive to ban 2,000 accounts in a month, however I'm betting it's only trials, ISK spamming and/or laundering accounts. That is chump-change compared to the real mass scale cheating going on. "You can take two-thousand drug pushers off the streets, without making the eyes of a wealthy druglord even blink."**
Kadril	Posted - 2006.10.05 11:11:00 - [113] I agree that it must be seen that trying to take advantage of bugs results in punishment. Else the only message it sends is "milk exploits for all they are worth, and then play stupid and ignorant when the loophole is publically exposed. Pocket one's gains and look for a different loophole when the original is closed off." Even if not a public name & shame, at least give us some indication that there is some form of punishment or removal of their gains.
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.05 22:29:00 - [114] Originally by: Kadril I agree that it must be seen that trying to take advantage of bugs results in punishment. Else the only message it sends is "milk exploits for all they are worth, and then play stupid and ignorant when the loophole is publically exposed. Pocket one's gains and look for a different loophole when the original is closed off." Even if not a public name & shame, at least give us some indication that there is some form of punishment or removal of their gains. you repeat what so many have said. if the public is allowed to believe that exploits will not result in punishement, then exploits will become the game-killer fast. name and shame is not needed, just afirmation that CCP has and will ban ANYONE that was found using an exploit. once banned, the parties can offer a defense to their actions, and details can be resolved (game time added for time lost if needed) but to be seen as doing NOTHING, CCP is giving imlpied permissions to use exploits without fear of punishement. If this is how ccp wishes to conduct their business then it is their choice, but many see it as poor judgement.
DukDodgerz Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.13 13:03:00 - [115] well, the subject seems to have been forgotten, but the damage is still there as are those that committed the offenses. what I predicted is happening, the hope is that the topic will fade away. Has CCP done anything? Will they even bother to aknowledge that the exploit happened and punishements are being enacted, or is it an issue with $$$$$$$$$ being the ruling factor. Now here is a serious questine; If I find a bug, exploit it as much and with as many as the 8/10 bug suffered, will I and my friends be left alone also?

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