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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
894
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Posted - 2015.02.10 20:20:04 -
[481] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:But since you mention it, I find it odd that it's ok to encourage men to 'think like a woman' but at the same time not ok to expect women to adapt themselves to the male dominated gaming community they freely chose to join. The very idea that a group of people (who happen to mostly be men enjoying a hard core spaceship game made by honest to god freaking Icelandic Vikings) that isn't really hurting anyone needs to adapt itself to the emotional needs and norms of an oversensitive minority turns my stomach. You write as though you think you represent the majority of EVE. The majority is often silent and not loud mouths who argue and curse at each other.
It only takes 2-3 guys showing how macho they are on comms and a lack of someone kicking them out to sour a channel of any size.
Much like you, I and any third party in this thread without an ISD kicking us around and even that doesn't stop us.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1559
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 20:22:05 -
[482] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:But since you mention it, I find it odd that it's ok to encourage men to 'think like a woman' but at the same time not ok to expect women to adapt themselves to the male dominated gaming community they freely chose to join. The very idea that a group of people (who happen to mostly be men enjoying a hard core spaceship game made by honest to god freaking Icelandic Vikings) that isn't really hurting anyone needs to adapt itself to the emotional needs and norms of an oversensitive minority turns my stomach. You write as though you think you represent the majority of EVE. The majority is often silent and not loud mouths who argue and curse at each other.
Someone said a few month ago that it's easy to speak for the silent majority when it won't object if you are wrong. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9699
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 20:28:57 -
[483] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:But since you mention it, I find it odd that it's ok to encourage men to 'think like a woman' but at the same time not ok to expect women to adapt themselves to the male dominated gaming community they freely chose to join. The very idea that a group of people (who happen to mostly be men enjoying a hard core spaceship game made by honest to god freaking Icelandic Vikings) that isn't really hurting anyone needs to adapt itself to the emotional needs and norms of an oversensitive minority turns my stomach. You write as though you think you represent the majority of EVE. The majority is often silent and not loud mouths who argue and curse at each other.
This is your personal bias and projection talking. I speak for myself and no one else unless I have an individual's express consent to speak for them. Try reading what I write instead of reading things as if you wrote it.
Quote:
It only takes 2-3 guys showing how macho they are on comms and a lack of someone kicking them out to sour a channel of any size.
And? This probably speaks more to your insecurities than it does to what someone else is doing. The fact that you think someone needs 'kicking out' because they are saying things you don't like again speaks to that authoritarian tendency of yours.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9699
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Posted - 2015.02.10 20:29:46 -
[484] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:But since you mention it, I find it odd that it's ok to encourage men to 'think like a woman' but at the same time not ok to expect women to adapt themselves to the male dominated gaming community they freely chose to join. The very idea that a group of people (who happen to mostly be men enjoying a hard core spaceship game made by honest to god freaking Icelandic Vikings) that isn't really hurting anyone needs to adapt itself to the emotional needs and norms of an oversensitive minority turns my stomach. You write as though you think you represent the majority of EVE. The majority is often silent and not loud mouths who argue and curse at each other. Someone said a few month ago that it's easy to speak for the silent majority when it won't object if you are wrong.
Who exactly is speaking for some silent majority?
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1559
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Posted - 2015.02.10 20:31:41 -
[485] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:But since you mention it, I find it odd that it's ok to encourage men to 'think like a woman' but at the same time not ok to expect women to adapt themselves to the male dominated gaming community they freely chose to join. The very idea that a group of people (who happen to mostly be men enjoying a hard core spaceship game made by honest to god freaking Icelandic Vikings) that isn't really hurting anyone needs to adapt itself to the emotional needs and norms of an oversensitive minority turns my stomach. You write as though you think you represent the majority of EVE. The majority is often silent and not loud mouths who argue and curse at each other. Someone said a few month ago that it's easy to speak for the silent majority when it won't object if you are wrong. Who exactly is speaking for some silent majority?
Read the thraed and you will find a few.
Tip : You aren't one. |
Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 20:48:54 -
[486] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:Rain6637 wrote:My ex-wife is still suuuper mad at me, even though she's the one who decided to run off and start seeing other people. I was away at the time, in the Army (at flight school, in fact, which the timing of it still confuses me). She's so mad, that every time we talked to take care of official matters (records, legal documents), every other word of hers was an insult or swear word. Not sure what inner dialogue she has going on, to convince herself she's the victim in all this, but I'm sure it's golden.
So. Personally, caring about the gender of people who play my favorite video game really doesn't make sense. I'd like to keep it gender neutral and interact with people within the bounds of the video game mechanics, regardless of gender.
Really. I'd prefer to not know. Understandable. Personally, I don't care who knows...besides, once you get on coms, it all comes out anyways. Most people who have never been on coms with me either don't know or don't believe it and I don't care. My sex doesn't effect my ability one bit. As far as I'm concerned, we are all just fish in the same pond. Done some acting in my time. I am pretty good at mimicry. I just have to practise some lines and I can sounds like a woman to many guys. (If I go off script and have to pronounce unpractised words or I get emotional in some way then I start to slip and drop words but I know there are better mimics than me.) I can even look like a woman.  Then there are voice synthesisers that work directly on modulating your sound driver. You can also pretend to have a broken mic. The only critical thing about comms is listening to the FC.
Agreed..with the last sentence. The rest, however, I fail to see a point...I'm not sure if you're saying this to make a point, or taking a stab at me..either way, it doesn't matter. In over 2 years of playing, I personally, have only encountered one person attempting to impersonate a female (on coms..there are many others that do but won't go that far). Personally..I don't care and I don't care what others think. I don't care of the person on the other side of the screen is a man or a woman. It just doesn't matter. 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29770
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Posted - 2015.02.10 20:56:49 -
[487] - Quote
OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
894
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 20:58:27 -
[488] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:edit: to be clear, im not speaking for the majrotiy, Im saying that it's stupid to expect people to conform to someone else's norms just because they come in and say "I'm special as I lack Y chromosome". Now you are blathering on about how EVE must not be changed for a very extreme minority.
My message is still simple:
Kick immature people out of your corp / alliance, advertise that fact and you will have more women in your group.Kaely Tanniss wrote:...I'm not sure if you're saying this to make a point, or taking a stab at me.. *Applies a bandaid*
No stab! No stab! 
Adding to what you said.
Rain6637 wrote:OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer. We are more than willing to help women with changing that as long as we get to brag about how fancy our machines are and how they will never afford them. 
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Kaely Tanniss
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:00:27 -
[489] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer.
LOL..touche...I play on my husbands computer.
I'm am thoroughly ammused by this thread. The e-***** wagging is epic. 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Hrothgar Nilsson
437
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Posted - 2015.02.10 21:12:14 -
[490] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:My ex-wife is still suuuper mad at me, even though she's the one who decided to run off and start seeing other people. I was away at the time, in the Army (at flight school, in fact, which the timing of it still confuses me). She's so mad, that every time we talked to take care of official matters (records, legal documents), every other word of hers was an insult or swear word. Not sure what inner dialogue she has going on, to convince herself she's the victim in all this, but I'm sure it's golden.
So. Personally, caring about the gender of people who play my favorite video game really doesn't make sense. I'd like to keep it gender neutral and interact with people within the bounds of the video game mechanics, regardless of gender.
Really. I'd prefer to not know.
Well, did she leave you and let you know about it, or did you find her out when she meant to keep it all a secret? I think there can be entirely different rationalizations going on in an ex-partner's mind in the aftermath, depending on whether they'd planned to leave someone, or get away with it and stay wit h that person.
If your quality of life, happiness, and social/economic well-being has improved markedly relative to theirs, that can pretty strong cause of resentment as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzA_xesrL8
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
834
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:13:49 -
[491] - Quote
If i wanted to know why i know less after reading this amusement park of a thread.
Hope expansion is in the works to be deployed soon GD is becoming stale fast. |
Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians
Fidelas Constans
199
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Posted - 2015.02.10 21:17:37 -
[492] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:I have a slightly different take than Jenn to that post. Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Female sensibilities are not more important than male ones. Females are just as likely as males to engage in immature and objectionable behavior - just of differnt types. The ability to get away with pretending one's feelings must be protected because of ehat's in ones pants is one of the privileges of being female.
The right to say something offensive, as much as it is a right, doesn't have anything to do with a "sensibility". A person can say all manners of offensive things they want, but it's hypocritical of them to be surprised when the hammer comes down as negative feedback. The problem for some of the worst offenders in chat is they believe they have the implicit right to say whatever they want without verbal retaliation. We may disagree on what's offensive, but to be honest most adults playing EVE are smart enough to figure out what they're saying is insulting to someone or not. I believe you have every right to use that insult, but I also believe that opens the door to anyone else freely insulting you back. I feel that people shouldn't create that situation by being insulting and offensive. It's a simple enough rule to abide by in 2015.
There are some cases where what is being said is unequivocally insulting and offensive, but in most cases, it isn't. This is where we get ideas like "people insisting on their right to be offensive" from. In most of those cases, the alleged offender really does not see what he or she is saying as offensive. Tbe alleged "victim" does and uses victim status to claim privilege for their viewpoint over the other.
We see this illustrated perfectly when the "victim" retaliates in kind, or simply reveals that they have a double standard. Or the vroup has a double standard, condemning "offensive" behavior when directed at certain people or groups, but condoning, encouraging, or participating in it when directed at others targets where its more acceptable. Women for example can get away with making almost any generalization about men they want, while male treatment of females invites threadnaughts of hand-wringing.
When you assume that people really are smart enough to know whats offensive, you are really just begging the question and assuming some objective, universal standard of offense. When you claim something is offensive, others are well within their rights to ask if that offense is reasonable. If your response is to simply dismiss that concern because they should ready know why you are guilty of trying to assign your own position the status of self-evident truth. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29771
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:25:56 -
[493] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Rain6637 wrote:My ex-wife is still suuuper mad at me, even though she's the one who decided to run off and start seeing other people. I was away at the time, in the Army (at flight school, in fact, which the timing of it still confuses me). She's so mad, that every time we talked to take care of official matters (records, legal documents), every other word of hers was an insult or swear word. Not sure what inner dialogue she has going on, to convince herself she's the victim in all this, but I'm sure it's golden.
So. Personally, caring about the gender of people who play my favorite video game really doesn't make sense. I'd like to keep it gender neutral and interact with people within the bounds of the video game mechanics, regardless of gender.
Really. I'd prefer to not know. Well, did she leave you and let you know about it, or did you find her out when she meant to keep it all a secret? I think there can be entirely different rationalizations going on in an ex-partner's mind in the aftermath, depending on whether they'd planned to leave someone, or get away with it and stay wit h that person. If your quality of life, happiness, and social/economic well-being has improved markedly relative to theirs, that can pretty strong cause of resentment as well.
I got a dear john phone call a couple weeks before the first phase of training, which left me with a choice of tending to my career, or my marriage. She was very matter of fact about it, and I appreciated that, and took it like an adult. Calm, and at the time I even told her if she changes her mind and thinks we can work it out, to let me know. (staying happy in a military relationship with things like deployments sometimes requires an open mind, and unconventional arrangements, and separating physical from emotional. I realize not many people can relate).
And how I'm doing? Excellent. Better than ever. I'm sure she has more than a little guilt about it, which is unfortunate, because I didn't cause it. I've never given her grief about her decision. I think the simple fact of the matter is it didn't work out with her sancho, so regret, etc. But I'm relieved that everything worked out the way it did, so perhaps neither one of us was ready for that.
Of course we hooked up a few times after that, but nothing ever came of it. Perhaps she expected me to put forth effort to make amends, but if that's the case she really didn't know me as well as she thought.
"If your quality of life, happiness, and social/economic well-being has improved markedly relative to theirs, that can pretty strong cause of resentment as well."
This made my day, thanks for that.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1563
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Posted - 2015.02.10 21:30:47 -
[494] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer.
Pretty common seeing as many of them have a computer capable of running WoW for example. Do you assume a large part of the girls playing subscription MMO do so only when their BF let them use his computer? Gaming couples definately don't play in shifts since we see them online at the same time. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
22471
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Posted - 2015.02.10 21:31:05 -
[495] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:We see this illustrated perfectly when the "victim" retaliates in kind, or simply reveals that they have a double standard. Or the vroup has a double standard, condemning "offensive" behavior when directed at certain people or groups, but condoning, encouraging, or participating in it when directed at others targets where its more acceptable. Women for example can get away with making almost any generalization about men they want, while male treatment of females invites threadnaughts of hand-wringing.
When you assume that people really are smart enough to know whats offensive, you are really just begging the question and assuming some objective, universal standard of offense. When you claim something is offensive, others are well within their rights to ask if that offense is reasonable. If your response is to simply dismiss that concern because they should ready know why you are guilty of trying to assign your own position the status of self-evident truth.
If blindly making offensive remarks is someone's right, then responding in kind and having double standards are rights too. The environment one creates is one they have to endure. Things are about as simple as that. You can work with other people sharing the same space as you, or you can hold your breath and insist on your rights until you're blue in the face.
You have to relinquish some of those rights. That's what collaboration of any kind means. You have to make the effort to understand what could hurt those other people who are your friends or your corpmates and make small adjustments to your behavior. If these friends and corpmates are good people then they will make adjustments too and not insist on trying to control or dictate your behavior.
People don't need to adopt the same standard of what's offensive or not. They simply need to find ways to accept that things that are OK for them may be offensive to someone else, and maybe there isn't a pressing need to expressive something potentially offensive simply because you have an urge to do so. This is the basic tenet of any community.
And careful. You sound dangerously close to being a victim yourself.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars
Khanid's Legion
218
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Posted - 2015.02.10 21:34:04 -
[496] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:What's the problem, EVE is already full of bitches
This comment survived the ISD purge but mine was deleted?
Hmm... the answer to the OP's question becomes that much more apparent. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29773
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:36:32 -
[497] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Rain6637 wrote:What's the problem, EVE is already full of bitches This comment survived the ISD purge but mine was deleted? Hmm... the answer to the OP's question becomes that much more apparent.
I KNOW!!!!! LOL shhh
Frostys Virpio wrote:Rain6637 wrote:OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer. Pretty common seeing as many of them have a computer capable of running WoW for example. Do you assume a large part of the girls playing subscription MMO do so only when their BF let them use his computer? Gaming couples definately don't play in shifts since we see them online at the same time.
That comment was a joke, btw. Pretty heavy in stereotype.
Nexus Day wrote:Tons of women play EvE. They all have large bosoms and skinny waists and tend to wear sunglasses.
Tons of women play EVE. Unfortunately it's not very many.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1564
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:47:20 -
[498] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:
Tons of women play EVE. Unfortunately it's not very many.
That's quite the large assumption. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
219
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:52:22 -
[499] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Tons of women play EVE. Unfortunately it's not very many.
Not very many tons?
Maybe we need some emancipation in gaming world.
Also who is EvE Executive Producer?
"...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..."
The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29773
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:01:11 -
[500] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Tons of women play EVE. Unfortunately it's not very many. Not very many tons? Maybe we need some emancipation in gaming world. Also who is EvE Executive Producer?
A woman with a buzzcut named Andie. Also a larper. Doesn't get more demographically perfect than that.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
221
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Posted - 2015.02.10 22:12:35 -
[501] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:A woman with a buzzcut named Andie. Also a larper. Doesn't get more demographically perfect than that.
It was rhetorical . Larper? Good old times. My gf likes to play Diablo 3, but has zero interest in EvE. All she want to do is to create characters on my free third slot. On the other hand there's only one computer...
"...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..."
The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29775
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:13:55 -
[502] - Quote
I know. But I thought you undersold the point.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Marsha Mallow
1923
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:29:53 -
[503] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer.
Just saw this, seems appropriate.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29775
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:35:17 -
[504] - Quote
Or, you know, it was just for laughs.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Memphis Baas
136
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:49:05 -
[505] - Quote
Walk into Best Buy, Wal Mart, Office Max, or any other store that has an Electronics department, and there's a slew of sales reps (male and female) who are more than happy to recommend a computer or laptop that can play games to anyone (male or female). EVE doesn't have particularly stringent hardware requirements. Tech support is offered everywhere, too. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
32828
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:54:02 -
[506] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Tons of women play EVE. Unfortunately it's not very many. <-Stolen from an Engineering joke.
Your trolling in this thread has been top class Rain. This one though. That's just asking for castration.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29777
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:55:37 -
[507] - Quote
have not, slander and calumny!
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 00:10:35 -
[508] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:It's not women that aren't wanted. It's shrill harpies who come into a community and demand that it changes to be more inclusive of them that aren't wanted. Actually someone remarked in comms once "You are not like other girl gamers I've come across who all seem to be wierdos, you're like a guy." I think he meant it as a compliment and I couldn't really reply other than a strangled howl. You seem to be saying girls should pretend not to be girls in EvE in order to be accepted - which is faintly hilarious given the size of your chest.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I know women who play EVE and I have no problem with them, because they don't make everything about them. When people join a group and start spouting identity politics, that's a problem.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 00:14:06 -
[509] - Quote
Here's the thing you don't people don't seem to understand. If you don't like how a group is, leave. Find another one. Repeat. Men have to do it too. I did.
And I'd argue that you should start speaking on comms sooner rather than later, so you can judge people's reactions before you get too invested in staying.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29785
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 00:14:18 -
[510] - Quote
I like to RP lesbian sex girl characters played by dudes, but I'm too embarrassed to do it with irl girl players.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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