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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Marsha Mallow
1915
   |
Posted - 2015.02.09 22:03:15 -
[241] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Also it was darling of you to support my assertion like that.
Be quiet and go to your room.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29750
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Posted - 2015.02.09 22:10:10 -
[242] - Quote
playroom? like XBox n' stuff?
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Vyl Vit
1045
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Posted - 2015.02.09 22:17:57 -
[243] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
The world is exactly as pretty as we make it.
Luckily, most people are pretty good at filling the world with sunshine and rainbows. Its a beautiful place indeed.
well, your an idealist then. I'm amused when people with little or no investment in areas of character like to characterize those who are so invested as "idealistic", as though they just threw a trump card. Allow me to chuckle. *heh heh heh*
Anyone with any sense has already left town.
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
482
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Posted - 2015.02.09 22:22:48 -
[244] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Kenneth Endashi wrote:BTW, this is not a conversation about how to change Eve. We are just freely exchanging ideas here, people. Not really. You're just complaining that there aren't many women at EVE and grasping at straws as to why this might be. Nobody is offering any practical solutions to what they perceive to be the problem. But that's not surprising considering who this is coming from.
Did the train of reality leave you at the station? Seriously, I had you figured for being somewhat intelligent.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Serene Repose
2200
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Posted - 2015.02.09 22:27:00 -
[245] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Sensible solutions should be practical, fair, and realistic, and must preserve the fundamental principles of EVE gameplay and player interactions. Google "dogma". Or not. 
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Memphis Baas
128
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Posted - 2015.02.09 22:47:09 -
[246] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Actually, I've noticed Goonswarm is generally intolerant of their female players being abused, which is strange when their line members do the opposite to external groups.
Not strange; they are a social group, if you're part of the group you're an equal, if you're not part of the group you're treated like ****, male or female they don't care.
Quote:It's really upsetting for women involved in serious disputes at a corp level because in reality they have no natural allies - just leghumping supporters.
If you automatically classify all your allies as "leg humpers" then perhaps that explains why you don't have any allies. Nobody has "natural allies", this is the internet and if a stranger helps you, there's generally something they want in return. Not sure why you're calling everyone who helps you derisive terms behind their backs.
Quote:Get off your arse and stop talking about improving the community and start doing so. There were plenty of times I could have spoken to you ingame about the trials and tribulations of various female players, but you, just like every other cockmonkey ingame will sit there and ramble on about it without doing a thing. Intervene, meaningfully.
"Trials and tribulations," omg, half an hour of blah blah blah. Do any males have this "trials and tribulations" view of the game? Carebears get killed repeatedly till they quit in frustration, never dramatized it as "trials and tribulations."
As far as Malcanis, he's (ex?) CSM, but did his agenda include "improve the game for women" specifically? Because if no, then you may want to get your own meaningful intervention rep who can do all the work for you, so you can then be entitled in cracking the whip like that. |
Marsha Mallow
1915
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 23:18:54 -
[247] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Not strange; they are a social group, if you're part of the group you're an equal, if you're not part of the group you're treated like ****, male or female they don't care.
It is a bit strange to sit in a group huddle clutching each other whilst spewing bile at people you just made up a reason to hate in a spaceship game. If you build a small bonfire in your local park and huddle around it 24-7 ranting obsecenties at everyone who comes near, chances are, they'll attempt to kill you. I wouldn't join a group of football hooligans then just regurgitate everything they say to 'fit in' and I don't see why anyone else should. Unless they want to be branded a boot-licker, in which case, go ahead.
Quote:If you automatically classify all your allies as "leg humpers" then perhaps that explains why you don't have any allies. Nobody has "natural allies", this is the internet and if a stranger helps you, there's generally something they want in return. Not sure why you're calling everyone who helps you derisive terms behind their backs.
You can't create allies in an alien population, even if they like your ankles. You seem to be mixing me up with someone who doesn't make these remarks directly to the people involved, when the comments you're quoting should disprove that. If you're going to handbag wave, don't be an amateur, that was pathetic.
Memphis Baas wrote:"Trials and tribulations," omg, half an hour of blah blah blah. Do any males have this "trials and tribulations" view of the game? Carebears get killed repeatedly till they quit in frustration, never dramatized it as "trials and tribulations."
Males don't generally care if their manboobs and genital pics are splashed across the internet. They almost seem proud somebody noticed that they had them.
Memphis Baas wrote:As far as Malcanis, he's (ex?) CSM, but did his agenda include "improve the game for women" specifically? Because if no, then you may want to get your own meaningful intervention rep who can do all the work for you, so you can then be entitled in cracking the whip like that.
I was talking to him, not you. Wind your neck in.
^ Also a helpful demonstration of why so few female players want to play EvE. We have to interract with people exactly like that, all the time. I don't start every convo with 'I know you're a ******* ****** cockmoney' - but you can be sure people like that end theirs with a 'YFB'.
And that summarises the intelligent level of discourse you'll get ingame, from actual players.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
The 11th Hour Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.02.09 23:28:19 -
[248] - Quote
Reading through this thread from start to end, one cannot but notice a decline from what passed like a proper conversation to more blatant finger pointing and namecalling towards the end. Which according to my earlier posts, is typical male-group behavior and in my opinion the main reason women keep their distance.
although its flattering to women to be fought over, men usually tend to take it too far and make things personal, thus forgetting what it was they fought about in the first place. women react to this typical male behaviour with an audible "MEH" and exit the scene alone, or with the guy smart enough to abstain from all the pointless bickering.
Its not a mystery why women dont take well to eve, when we cannot help ourselves to mitigate the urge to pointlessly compete, even in this very thread.
There's no place like space
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Marsha Mallow
1915
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Posted - 2015.02.09 23:38:39 -
[249] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:Reading through this thread from start to end, one cannot but notice a decline from what passed like a proper conversation to more blatant finger pointing and namecalling towards the end. Which according to my earlier posts, is typical male-group behavior and in my opinion the main reason women keep their distance.
although its flattering to women to be fought over, men usually tend to take it too far and make things personal, thus forgetting what it was they fought about in the first place. women react to this typical male behaviour with an audible "MEH" and exit the scene alone, or with the guy smart enough to abstain from all the pointless bickering.
Its not a mystery why women dont take well to eve, when we cannot help ourselves to mitigate the urge to pointlessly compete, even in this very thread.
You might start to notice trends like that when you post 18 times in a thread over a nine hour period. Maybe you need a lie down.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Crevtran Sbatiol
Outer Void Applications
Get Off My Lawn
15
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Posted - 2015.02.09 23:47:18 -
[250] - Quote
Maybe, just maybe, if you guys would stop with the "ALL MEN ARE PIGS BRUN THEM" and "FEMINISM IS EVIL", somebody could get something done.
if you point fingers at everyone and claim men in general, and their very nature are the problem, then I think you should seek help.
Alice: Geez, Bob, you taunted the Goons and now they want to kill you.
Bob: Should I call the police?
Alice: In game, Bob, kill you in game.
Bob: Ah, so petition it and call the police?
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Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
The 11th Hour Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.02.09 23:48:11 -
[251] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:
You might start to notice trends like that when you post 18 times in a thread over a nine hour period. Maybe you need a lie down.
Yeah, it must be my fault. Maybe i stink too and need to take a bath. Or perhaps something about my mother?
Ill post as many times as I want if a subject interests me and I wont take your bait for personal comments.
Your behaviour of pointlessly calling out others just to argue has nothing to do with the thread itself and ironically only promotes my own arguments. If you care to read what those are. If not, oh well, im sure you will find someone to take your hooks and start yet another cycle of meaningful namecalling.
There's no place like space
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11712
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Posted - 2015.02.09 23:48:59 -
[252] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:Reading through this thread from start to end, one cannot but notice a decline from what passed like a proper conversation to more blatant finger pointing and namecalling towards the end. Which according to my earlier posts, is typical male-group behavior and in my opinion the main reason women keep their distance.
although its flattering to women to be fought over, men usually tend to take it too far and make things personal, thus forgetting what it was they fought about in the first place. women react to this typical male behaviour with an audible "MEH" and exit the scene alone, or with the guy smart enough to abstain from all the pointless bickering.
Its not a mystery why women dont take well to eve, when we cannot help ourselves to mitigate the urge to pointlessly compete, even in this very thread.
I found your problem, and isn't that men exist.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
The 11th Hour Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.02.09 23:57:45 -
[253] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I found your problem, and isn't that men exist.
ooh, do i sense more masked sarcasm? how original. Keep it up, you are really making a case for me here, and the best part is, you are not even realising it! 
Its sad though, seeing what could be beautiful discussion material shadowed by predators, ready to jump at anything looking for a fight.
sheesh.
There's no place like space
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11712
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:00:15 -
[254] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:
ooh, do i sense more masked sarcasm?
It wasn't masked.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
55
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:10:15 -
[255] - Quote
Glathull wrote:Lupe Meza wrote:
As far as this thread goes, why don't more women play eve? This thread.
Both you and Marsha have suggested that this thread is a problem. That there is something about the behavior in this thread that is conclusive evidence of . . . something. What exactly is it? I just re-read all 12 pages to see if there's something here that I skipped or am somehow missing. What I see in this thread so far looks to me like the following: a small amount of halfhearted trolling a few people with obvious prejudices trying to sound reasonable but basically just sounding like idiots a rather large number of people who are interested in having a grown-up discussion about the topic What about this is a problem? Do you want to get rid of the trolls? Do you want to get rid of the people who are clearly uneducated and basically just think women are different/inferior? Or do you want to get rid of the people who actually want to have a rational discussion about this but whom you don't seem to like because some of us disagree with you? If you are willing to agree with how I've characterized the responses to this thread, then you've got a problem with one of these groups of people. Which group is it that's causing the problem? And what specific remedy for this problem would make this thread okay?
Well take this response for instance? Is this a genuine inquiry? Or are these questions and premises designed just to frame me into a position that you will subsequently attack?
For example "Or do you want to get rid of the people who actually want to have a rational discussion about this but whom you don't seem to like because some of us disagree with you?". The wording is strange. Not one proposition I put forward for me to defend; I'm also told I don't "like" people that don't agree with me, and that some of "us". Liking (and moreso disliking) people takes energy. More energy than I'm willing to devote to someone I don't even know through general discussions posts. So on what point or points do I bring up that the "us'es" don't agreeing with me and cause me not to like them?
Anyone that has played any game with voice chat...EVER can agree that more often than not you will hear some pretty outrageous hateful stuff. Unless you actually ARE in fact playing Hello Kitty online.
Gaming is generally demonstrably hostile towards females in general just like many other facets of Nerd culture. When guys aren't hostile they run the risk of going too far in the other direction and just being desperate and creepy. EVE is hard but being in an environment where you may be treated unfairly based on things that have nothing to do with the game itself makes it just plain unattractive. Is this the point? Am I wrong about gaming and nerd culture's attitudes toward women?
Is it the point on there being fewer women gamers to begin with, making a woman that enjoys eve being a niche within a niche? Is this false? Is this the point of contention
Is it any of the other things I said that apparently? Or am I just being painted into a corner?
I said "this thread" because it is both difficult to have rational discussion when people aren't interested in one. How many people came to discuss the issue? How many came to vent the usual privilege denying and/or don't change my EVE rhetoric? Would a woman on the fence about diving into EVE look at this thread and some of the comments and in fact say, "This is what I want to do with MY freetime." You re-read the 12 pages. You tell me. |
Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
291
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:10:40 -
[256] - Quote
Well this seems to have escalated quickly. . . brb bat phoning ISD, I hate when we all fight instead of just trolling each other like normal people.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Crevtran Sbatiol
Outer Void Applications
Get Off My Lawn
15
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:13:55 -
[257] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:ooh, do i sense more masked sarcasm? how original. Keep it up, you are really making a case for me here, and the best part is, you are not even realising it! sheesh.
Please re-read your previous posts. How would one NOT conclude that you think men in general are the problem?
Celestia Via wrote:
shadowed by predators, ready to jump at anything looking for a fight.
Sheesh, are you even trying? If you could present your arguments in a logical, calm manner, I would be able to take you seriously. But right now all I'm hearing is "muh oppression"
OT: I don't think men in general are the problem, the only difference between Eve and other MMOs is that Eve attacts certain characters. Most of the guys I know in Eve are either LEO, Mil, or IT. Neither of those three groups is known to have an easy time dealing with women.
Alice: Geez, Bob, you taunted the Goons and now they want to kill you.
Bob: Should I call the police?
Alice: In game, Bob, kill you in game.
Bob: Ah, so petition it and call the police?
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Marsha Mallow
1915
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:14:01 -
[258] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Celestia Via wrote:
ooh, do i sense more masked sarcasm?
It wasn't masked.
Thank gawd the night shift has arrived.
If you could, uh, try direct a few ninja digs at the ones with really massive bewbs. Preferably from a female alt. Can some of you please drag your womenfolk across to eyeball this and help
tia
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:Well this seems to have escalated quickly. . . brb bat phoning ISD, I hate when we all fight instead of just trolling each other like normal people.
Reported for squealing
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11713
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:15:46 -
[259] - Quote
Lupe Meza wrote:
Gaming is generally demonstrably hostile towards females in general just like many other facets of Nerd culture.
I've noticed that it's mutual. I mean, besides my sainted mother and my wonderful wife, I have only rarely met a woman who doesn't actively deride most forms of male entertainment, from sports to games and everything in between.
But then, my mother is a librarian and I married a Cheesehead, so perhaps I'm just lucky.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
The 11th Hour Alliance
35
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:16:19 -
[260] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:Well this seems to have escalated quickly. . . brb bat phoning ISD, I hate when we all fight instead of just trolling each other like normal people.
amen to that. its actually funny how a thread that was partly about male aggression and competitionism has actually turned into a demonstration on said subject. whats not funny, is having to wait for the testosterone-crazed ones to go away to continue the discussion. ;p
There's no place like space
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Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians
Fidelas Constans
186
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:22:26 -
[261] - Quote
You know what's really interesting about this thread? You can replace pretty much any instance of "women/females/girls/feminists" and related terms with "Christians/fundamentalists/evangelicals" etc. and get basically the same message.
"There are not that many Christians playing the game"
"Evangelicals don't play the game because people constantly say nasty things about them."
"The game would be better with more fundamentalists because that would mean more players and more money."
You can even find that the same sorts of things are offensive! Sexual topics, foul language, nasty stereotyping about their particular groups...
And what's even better? You can find that going on in most groups in EVE - almost any corporation you join will think nothing of jokes about priests and little kids or talk about how religious people are supposedly ignorant redneck neckbeards and so forth. Try using the f-word for gay people or nasty language about females in BRAVE for example and you'll (rightly) fall afoul of the "stay Classy" rule, but you can take all the drive-by shots you want at Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, and unless it's REALLY over the top no one will say a word. This isn't to pick on BRAVE, either, that's basically the norm.
But wait.. there's more! Unlike Christians who basically never get on comms and start preaching at anyone that I've ever heard of in any EVE environment... feminists and even more egalitarian females will happily do so at any opportunity. Often for no apparent reason at all, and in some cases RIGHT AFTER behaving in just the way they complain about people stereotyping them. I've heard the same female talk about granting sexual favors to people and how she would make out with an alliance CEO at a real-life meetup and then shortly thereafter rail at the males for "viewing women as sex objects".
Feminism is pretty clearly not science. It certainly does not attempt to describe reality against falsifiable hypothesis based on observation. Indeed, rather than subject it's theories to scientific scrutiny it attempts to subject science to feminist scrutiny. Hmmm.. not at all unlike the protestations of Creationists.
Oh, and last but not least we get the demands that other women adhere to certain sexual mores adopted by the morality police:
Quote:Yup. Just as all men aren't all imbeciles, women aren't all slags. But there are a surprising number of women who play online games purely to exercise their 'wiles' in some sort of fantasy setting. Which does indeed make it harder for the rest of us, who actually don't want to engage in a convo with leg-humping-puppy-942 about why they can't get a girlfriend, which will inevitably result in.... 'so what are you wearing/can I have a pic' at some point. It's a bit embarassing when you point out you're old enough to be their mother and they start babbling on (and sound even more excited). I must admit, alcohol helps a lot during these conversations and I've probably shame-trolled a few boys out of game to level up the playing field for my ingame female friends who are harassed out.
Because remember folks, there's something wrong with women "using their wiles" if that's what they want to do, because some other woman said so. After all, it makes it "harder" and we can't have someone else's choices inconveniencing they morality police.
And just for the record, folks, I happen to BE a Christian, although not an evangelical, fundamentalist, nor creationist. It's funny how the more objectionable elements of Christianity have so much in common with Feminism - including the unwillingness to leave people alone to enjoy EVE. |
Memphis Baas
128
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:22:39 -
[262] - Quote
This being General Discussion, you'll probably wait a long time. |
Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
291
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:24:33 -
[263] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Celestia Via wrote:
ooh, do i sense more masked sarcasm?
It wasn't masked. Thank gawd the night shift has arrived. If you could, uh, try direct a few ninja digs at the ones with really massive bewbs. Preferably from a female alt. Can some of you please drag your womenfolk across to eyeball this and help tia Iyokus Patrouette wrote:Well this seems to have escalated quickly. . . brb bat phoning ISD, I hate when we all fight instead of just trolling each other like normal people. Reported for squealing
oink oink 
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
17103
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:35:40 -
[264] - Quote
More women don't play games like this, generally, because of the large number of immature and ridiculous players who will harass them after finding out they are a woman.
I've seen multiple occurrances where someone revealed themselves to be a woman, after which one or two guys started trying to "woo" her, if you call it that- a lot of the less socially apt people in a game like this will spring at the opportunity to talk to a girl, and will be way over the top in doing so.
People play games- guys and girls both play. The only reason you see a disparity is because of the number of socially inept and often quite rude guys who can't control themselves once they realize "oh man, a GIRL is playing EVE! I have to get to know EVERYTHING about her! Maybe she'll like me! HEY WHAT'S YOUR BRA SIZE"
Just have fun and play EVE- if you so happen to meet women playing, they're no different from the rest of the players- we're all just here to have fun and play with our spaceships- if you can't handle knowing women play without acting like a rabid animal, you're part of the problem.
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
17103
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:40:50 -
[265] - Quote
Good God, this is a terrible thread.
Seriously, I'm embarrassed.
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery
Prolapse.
292
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:41:55 -
[266] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:Good God, this is a terrible thread.
Seriously, I'm embarrassed.
What's your Bra Size? 
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
818
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:42:57 -
[267] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:Good God, this is a terrible thread.
Seriously, I'm embarrassed.
Yeah, but at this point you've got to keep reading just to see how deep the rabbit hole can go.
Vote Sabriz!
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
17103
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:43:05 -
[268] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:Good God, this is a terrible thread.
Seriously, I'm embarrassed. What's your Bra Size?
Okay that's worth a laugh- I set myself up for that 
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Marsha Mallow
1917
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 00:47:11 -
[269] - Quote
You have to [force a minion] to whisper
But what are you wearing
At a crucial point during a fleet
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Memphis Baas
129
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Posted - 2015.02.10 00:52:48 -
[270] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Yeah, but at this point you've got to keep reading just to see how deep the rabbit hole can go.
We haven't reached the HTFU part yet. Bonus if linked to the developer song.
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