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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34782	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:07:16 - [301] - Quote Harrison Tato wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Syn Shi wrote: And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want. Nope. You can try to succeed at whatever you want. But you don't get to automatically succeed at whatever you try. Since EVE is a PvP game, other people get to have their say. Hmm. The only place I see succeed written is in your response. It's just a comment. The language doesn't have to be interpreted so literally. I think it's reasonable to think that most people don't set out to fail at doing something. So, when the original comment of "everyone is allowed to play the way they want" is made, it's probably not unreasonable to conclude they are trying to achieve something they want to do. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 315	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:19:56 - [302] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Harrison Tato wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Syn Shi wrote: And the definition of sandbox is everyone is allowed to play the way they want. Nope. You can try to succeed at whatever you want. But you don't get to automatically succeed at whatever you try. Since EVE is a PvP game, other people get to have their say. Hmm. The only place I see succeed written is in your response. It's just a comment. The language doesn't have to be interpreted so literally. I think it's reasonable to think that most people don't set out to fail at doing something. So, when the original comment of "everyone is allowed to play the way they want" is made, it's probably not unreasonable to conclude they are trying to achieve something they want to do. Whatever floats your boat. I think he was being infintile because the idea of another player ignoring or avoiding him hurts his feewwwingsss.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12137	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:21:01 - [303] - Quote Harrison Tato wrote: Whatever floats your boat. I think he was being infintile because the idea of another player ignoring or avoiding him hurts his feewwwingsss. *infantile. At least spell it correctly, if you're going to try and insult me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34782	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:25:01 - [304] - Quote Harrison Tato wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Harrison Tato wrote: Hmm. The only place I see succeed written is in your response. It's just a comment. The language doesn't have to be interpreted so literally. Whatever floats your boat. Should I take that literally, or is it just a general statement? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Niobe Song Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:26:20 - [305] - Quote Why do NPC corps bother people so much? If it is just the fact that the people you wardec can jump to a NPC corp to avoid you then shouldn't you be going after that specific mechanic? Or look at wardec as a whole? What about me being forced out of an NPC corp would make your game play experience more enjoyable?
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12137	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:29:37 - [306] - Quote Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? Their risk/reward ratio is hugely skewed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34783	Posted - 2015.03.15 02:31:44 - [307] - Quote Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? If it is just the fact that the people you wardec can jump to a NPC corp to avoid you then shouldn't you be going after that specific mechanic? Or look at wardec as a whole? What about me being forced out of an NPC corp would make your game play experience more enjoyable? I don't think it bothers anyone as such. The OP was just a general question since CCPs data suggests that players that remain in an NPC Corp quit Eve earlier than players that move to player run Corps. The thread was prompted by the friendly fire safety switch, which was introduced because CCP believe that one of the reasons Corps don't recruit is because of awoxing. So the discussion is the other side of the coin so to speak. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 140	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:08:09 - [308] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? Their risk/reward ratio is hugely skewed. You are in hi-sec killing players who don't fight back vs being in low or null fighting other pvp players. You should be the last one to talk about risk. Its obvious you are risk averse.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12137	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:17:05 - [309] - Quote Syn Shi wrote: You are in hi-sec killing players who don't fight back vs being in low or null fighting other pvp players. You should be the last one to talk about risk. Its obvious you are risk averse. I wasn't aware that people we wardec are forbidden from shooting back. My level of risk is theirs to dictate, after all. Their failure in that regard belongs solely to them. And heck, if you're talking about ganking, there is no riskier profession. Neg tens can be shot by literally anyone without recourse. Such projection from you. Here you are arguing that risk should be taken away, and saying that disagreement is itself risk averse. Do you think anyone will fall for that lie? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1102	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:20:25 - [310] - Quote Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? If it is just the fact that the people you wardec can jump to a NPC corp to avoid you then shouldn't you be going after that specific mechanic? Or look at wardec as a whole? What about me being forced out of an NPC corp would make your game play experience more enjoyable? NPC corp + high sec + veterans = high ISK for lowest risk = economic impacts with farmed items. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 252	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:24:57 - [311] - Quote Personally. 1) I'm afraid joining a corp would create a bigger sense of obligation to Eve than I have time for. I've spent a lot of time on Eve, but it's exactly when I want to -- not when I have to show up for my bros or CTA. 2) I play Eve for intellectual challenge,in game goals and entertainment. I have a family and social circle so I'm not seeking to expand that through a game. (Although I think it's a great way for people that do - only downside is that it can be fleeting) 3) Because I don't have to. There are still plenty of things I want to do in the game that I can do by myself and my alts. 4) No drama. I don't have to deal with immature players, self-important jerks, blowhards or key individuals disappearing leaving the corp in disarray. The last thing I want is for Eve to insist that I join a corp for my own good.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:33:15 - [312] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Caladin Brood wrote: why? ok case in point, i decided to try a new char out an joined a brand new corp, social blah de blah boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec boom wardec make of it as you will, but to put it simply, to retain new players this needs to stop Sorry you had 10 wardecs like that, but they aren't that bad. If you are in the right Corp, they are easily managed and everyone continues to have fun. Wardecs aren't something to be scared of or ticked off about. The worst that happens is a lost ship and pod, both of which are expendable tools in this game anyway. But that can mostly be avoided in a good Corp. If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12137	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:35:42 - [313] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum. Never heard of the Griffon, I take it? Most wardec corps are pretty little, so even a relatively small corp can have numbers on them, and ewar leverages numbers better than almost anything else you can do in highsec. Yes, there are things you can do when decced. Just because they don't constitute being able to ignore wardecs completely doesn't mean it's not a viable way to do it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34783	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:37:37 - [314] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum. Yeah, a collection of new players forming a Corp in highsec is not a great idea, but not because of the risk of loss. Simply because they are unlikely to know how to manage the wardec so they can still have fun. Being new doesn't mean you are just cannon fodder. It's relatively easy for a new player, even during a war, to continue to have fun playing the game, even in highsec. I don't know what playing with a half dozen alts would be like personally. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:41:03 - [315] - Quote Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? If it is just the fact that the people you wardec can jump to a NPC corp to avoid you then shouldn't you be going after that specific mechanic? Or look at wardec as a whole? What about me being forced out of an NPC corp would make your game play experience more enjoyable? Folk don't like the idea of there being any place in the game where they aren't allowed, or rather where it is mechanically very difficult, to blow up other people's ships. Especially when the people who gravitate to those areas tend to fly needlessly expensive things and react badly to their being exploded. I feel this myself when I ship scan a 3 month old toon in a faction fit Vindicator with 8x Fed Navy railguns. I sympathize. But I think its good for the game to have somewhere thats not a free fire zone, especially when EVE pvp basically comes down to SP and blobbing, with an occasional dash of FC competence.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:46:44 - [316] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum. Yeah, a collection of new players forming a Corp in highsec is not a great idea, but not because of the risk of loss. Simply because they are unlikely to know how to manage the wardec so they can still have fun. Being new doesn't mean you are just cannon fodder. It's relatively easy for a new player, even during a war, to continue to have fun playing the game, even in highsec. You can't undock a wardecced toon without instantly popping up on someone's watchlist, assuming your dockup station doesn't already have a neutral scout babysitting. Even then the cycle of watchlist ping > locator agent > neutral eyes pinpoint target > gank proteus vs tech 1 barge or BC takes all of 15 minutes assuming they aren't missioning in Outer Mongolia. I agree there's alot of people running corps who aren't up to it but that's not gonna change unless corp startup requirements do.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23925	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:49:48 - [317] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? Their risk/reward ratio is hugely skewed. As a person in an NPC corp, I would agree with this assessment. However, in EVE, if the risk/reward benefit is hugely skewed for something could you really blame someone for choosing it? It would be foolish not to. Wardecs and NPC corps need to be fixed, no question. Social corps and Awox buttons are not the way. Sleep all day. Party all night. Never grow old. Never die. -óß¦ªß¦ç-ó
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34784	Posted - 2015.03.15 03:58:14 - [318] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: You can't undock a wardecced toon without instantly popping up on someone's watchlist, assuming your dockup station doesn't already have a neutral scout babysitting. Even then the cycle of watchlist ping > locator agent > neutral eyes pinpoint target > gank proteus vs tech 1 barge or BC takes all of 15 minutes assuming they aren't missioning in Outer Mongolia. I agree there's alot of people running corps who aren't up to it but that's not gonna change unless corp startup requirements do. I wish I was that important that wardec Corps were spending that much energy trying to disrupt my gameplay. Unfortunately, like 99.9% of other players, I'm not. Just applying some simple methods and common sense makes it easy to continue to have fun in highsec during a wardec. Highsec is pretty big and wardec Corps and mercs usually have multiple wars active. They are easy to avoid if that's what you want to do. We seem to have drifted off topic though. There are other threads on wardecs that this could be continued in though. Happy to do so. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:04:51 - [319] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: If you are a new player with one account, losing a cruiser or BC or your first T1 battleship can be a major setback. And there's no way for a collection of such players to fight back against t3 gangs so, they get to just not play for a week or two. Some of you folk can't imagine what its like to play without a half dozen alts minimum. Never heard of the Griffon, I take it? Most wardec corps are pretty little, so even a relatively small corp can have numbers on them, and ewar leverages numbers better than almost anything else you can do in highsec. Yes, there are things you can do when decced. Just because they don't constitute being able to ignore wardecs completely doesn't mean it's not a viable way to do it. Once again, if highsec newbie corps were filled with players who understand pvp tactics and fleet doctrines, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12138	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:06:59 - [320] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Once again, if highsec newbie corps were filled with players who understand pvp tactics and fleet doctrines, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And? Are you suggesting that they simply be immune? Or that they should be able to win when playing the game incorrectly? It seems fairly simple to me. New players need to be taught, not by one another obviously. Why should a corp unsuitable for this do well? If they are weeded out, it leaves more room for the worthwhile corps to recruit. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:07:30 - [321] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: You can't undock a wardecced toon without instantly popping up on someone's watchlist, assuming your dockup station doesn't already have a neutral scout babysitting. Even then the cycle of watchlist ping > locator agent > neutral eyes pinpoint target > gank proteus vs tech 1 barge or BC takes all of 15 minutes assuming they aren't missioning in Outer Mongolia. I agree there's alot of people running corps who aren't up to it but that's not gonna change unless corp startup requirements do. I wish I was that important that wardec Corps were spending that much energy trying to disrupt my gameplay. Unfortunately, like 99.9% of other players, I'm not. Just applying some simple methods and common sense makes it easy to continue to have fun in highsec during a wardec. Highsec is pretty big and wardec Corps and mercs usually have multiple wars active. They are easy to avoid if that's what you want to do. We seem to have drifted off topic though. There are other threads on wardecs that this could be continued in though. Happy to do so. It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 34785	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:13:35 - [322] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do. Of course it's not hard, but we just aren't that important on an individual level either. New players joining nee player Corps are going to struggle. I agree with you that it would be good if there were some minimum requirements to start a Corp. That would result in a lot of change in the view of wardecs. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12138	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:16:15 - [323] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do. Of course it's not hard, but we just aren't that important on an individual level either. New players joining nee player Corps are going to struggle. I agree with you that it would be good if there were some minimum requirements to start a Corp. That would result in a lot of change in the view of wardecs. Bingo. A lot of the problems with "new player corps" is that the bar is set so low for corp creation. It trivializes the mechanic. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:16:35 - [324] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Once again, if highsec newbie corps were filled with players who understand pvp tactics and fleet doctrines, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And? Are you suggesting that they simply be immune? Or that they should be able to win when playing the game incorrectly? It seems fairly simple to me. New players need to be taught, not by one another obviously. Why should a corp unsuitable for this do well? If they are weeded out, it leaves more room for the worthwhile corps to recruit. Who's to do the teaching if all the bittervets are busy farming them for stats? I think some sort of tweak to the wardec system that disincentivizes deccing corps low in SP and assets would solve the problem.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2015.03.15 04:27:51 - [325] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: It's not that hard to run a locator and move a neutral scout around in a frig on your second monitor. Especially if you know your target is a dumbass who doesn't understand how game of alts works or what locators do. Of course it's not hard, but we just aren't that important on an individual level either. New players joining nee player Corps are going to struggle. I agree with you that it would be good if there were some minimum requirements to start a Corp. That would result in a lot of change in the view of wardecs. Bingo. A lot of the problems with "new player corps" is that the bar is set so low for corp creation. It trivializes the mechanic. Set the bar as high as you like you'll still have old characters with only pve experience and no leadership skills to speak of starting corps, recruiting a bunch of likeminded players and newbs, getting obliterated in a cascade of wardecs and doing the same thing again a few months down the road. It would be nice if the bittervets would make a conscious decision to challenge themselves instead of going after the easy targets, but risk-aversion is just as ingrained in their playstyle as it is in that of the "carebears."
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12138	Posted - 2015.03.15 05:01:36 - [326] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Who's to do the teaching if all the bittervets are busy farming them for stats? Oh puh-leez. Of all of the mid-high skillpoint players in highsec right now, I very much doubt than even 10% of them are in wardec corps. It's probably lower than that. Quote: I think some sort of tweak to the wardec system that disincentivizes deccing corps low in SP and assets would solve the problem. And I think that CCP themselves have stated that non consensual PvP has no ramifications on player retention. And that taking player freedom away to serve the purely theoretical purpose of "helping newbies" is disingenuous at best. Quote: It would be nice if the bittervets would make a conscious decision to challenge themselves instead of going after the easy targets, but risk-aversion is just as ingrained in their playstyle as it is in that of the "carebears." And here you are mischaracterizing the motives of people you don't like. If you hadn't yet figured this out, far more people do the former, than the latter. Ever heard of Eve University? RvB? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4681	Posted - 2015.03.15 07:02:34 - [327] - Quote Yzar Soikutsu wrote: I am not in a corp because corps of 1 or 2 players just declare war on our corp everytime we are in jita or other high traffic areas in the hope of getting easy kills. Don't be an easy kill? Example: great way to get frequent wardecs is to AFK in a freighter.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7951	Posted - 2015.03.15 07:06:31 - [328] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Niobe Song wrote: Why do NPC corps bother people so much? Their risk/reward ratio is hugely skewed. As a person in an NPC corp, I would agree with this assessment. However, in EVE, if the risk/reward benefit is hugely skewed for something could you really blame someone for choosing it? It would be foolish not to. Wardecs and NPC corps need to be fixed, no question. Social corps and Awox buttons are not the way. Wardecs, yes. NPC corps, no. The only thing wrong with NPC corps is that they cause a flood of tears in this forum from people that like to use words like 'force' when discussing game mechanics. For some reason these alleged sandbox promoters seem to get real wound up when someone else is not using the sandbox the way they want them to. Now wardecs on the other hand...where do I even start. The entire thing needs to be wiped out and started from scratch. So many years of patchwork fixes has done nothing but make it worse. CCP has had the time now to see what works and what doesn't. It's time to grab the bull by the horns and rewrite all that legacy code into something befitting of this century. Sure, it'll be a pain in the ass for the coders and will use up a lot of time some might consider wasted, but it needs to be done. Else it will just keep getting more muddled and more unworkable as each new layer of 'fixes' gets rammed on to it. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
ashley Eoner 457	Posted - 2015.03.15 07:59:56 - [329] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Yzar Soikutsu wrote: I am not in a corp because corps of 1 or 2 players just declare war on our corp everytime we are in jita or other high traffic areas in the hope of getting easy kills. Don't be an easy kill? Example: great way to get frequent wardecs is to AFK in a freighter. I got more wardecs on my corps when mining than any other single activity.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 315	Posted - 2015.03.15 08:41:01 - [330] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Harrison Tato wrote: Whatever floats your boat. I think he was being infintile because the idea of another player ignoring or avoiding him hurts his feewwwingsss. *infantile. At least spell it correctly, if you're going to try and insult me. I meant that you go on forever. Nice spelling catch though. You win he internet.

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