Where does hyperdunking fit in on this chart?

Where does hyperdunking fit in on this chart?

Funny chart. Looking at it from a non-I-only-want-easy-kills-and-am-too-lazy-to-find-real-combat perspective, all those changes seem pretty good.

Let's get two things straight. There's proper PVP, there's ganking for profit and there's griefing. All three are mutually exclusive and interestingly enough, the changes listed in that chart are mostly meant to combat the third one, which is perfectly fine by me because no-one likes a game where griefers get handed all the tools they need to grief.

But since OP likes the idea of HTFU, I suggest he follows that rule himself as the game slowly adapts to a wider audience so we may all enjoy the game for another decade.

So you would prefer to spend 300mil a month than grinding sec status and the tags enable this playstyle for you to have more fun... that kinda sounds like a buff to me... unless you want to go back to grinding instead?

No but we are open to attack from everyone and the faction navies and gate/station guns will kill us very quickly when they catch us.


No gankers buying them however does kinda show they are not a buff for them.

Nice chart!

But all I see is a win-win.

Highsec less harsh

More people play

More money to support the game

More people to shoot at

Harder to shoot them (but still quite doable)


Highsec 'hunters' get more targets and more challenge

Why are you complaining?

then the larger sec hit for gankers isnt a negative.

Nope the ganking nerfs are far far more numerous than the buffs and most of the ganking buffs are unintended effects of adjusting other areas. However almost all of the ganking nerfs have been direct nerfs.

So the problem I think is not so much grounded in griefers and carebears but mechanics that make getting simple PVP more difficult. A lot of people labor under the idea that lowsec and nullsec is PVPer heaven but many who are into PVP find it just as irritating to be out there as would some miner trying to get nullsec ore without being in an alliance. Heck what do we find in deep nullsec past the bubble camps, gank pipelines, and intel channels? Farmers.

So I understand the motive of the image but I think the issue is more complex. "Simple pew" is going to be as hard to get as simple let me rake in ISK leave me alone". This was never an FPS game and it's not a single player game, but I think that the mechanics and "way of things" in the game has bottlenecked a lot of players. Your list make me think that CCP is trying to protect one kind of trapped player from the other kind. Hamhanded perhaps. Unless some things change significantly about the way things are outside of highsec then the changes you listed are mere sops or bandaids. I honestly think the existing other problems are coming to a head now because such changes were not, nor felt to be, needed in the past but the "way of things" (blue donut, blobs, etc.) are what have gotten worse over the years.

Not on that list is the fact that concord used to be tankable.

Feyd's chart isn't only about highsec pvp.

It's clearly labelled HTFU to Theme-Park.

As a lowsec pvper, tags are no buff. I spend about 300 million a month keeping my sec status above -5 (because I fly logistics in fleets).

I would much rather spend that ISK on ships to go fight with. A Tristan is about 6 million ISK fit. That 300 million represents about 50 Tristans a month that could go to pvp instead.

Ratting for sec status is so boring that the increase in sec status penalty requires much more ratting to maintain my status so I can pvp in a role that I like for fleets. So boring, I'd rather spend the ISK instead. The result being less pvp ships.

Security tags are no buff. Sec status hit increase was a nerf.

What are you losing sec status for as logi? I don't kill pods in lowsec for this reason unless they are below -5.

then the larger sec hit for gankers isnt a negative.

However being < -5 makes me instantly engageable anywhere. When the logi can be the cause to initiate a fight, that makes things more difficult for a fleet, especially if sitting on a gate waiting to move forward.

Logi ships are relatively slow to align and warp. That makes them easy to catch on gates and kill if they are freely engageable.

Additionally, often we start fights by shooting a suspect or outlaw in an opposing fleet. Especially when on gates. As logi, pulling range is one of my primary goals when we are together in a bunch. Being neutral usually gives me a few seconds to do that before I have to rep someone and take a suspect flag. Positioning for logi is one of the best ways to protect yourself.

So being an outlaw and logi is not ideal. Better to be neutral as a logi (until the reps are applied, then it's suspect anyway).

But I fight a lot (not as logi) at other times. That's largely where my sec status takes it's hit.

The NPE funnels people into mindless ISK pumping. This must be addressed as a priority.

The chart relates to a shift from HTFU to Themepark.

I can give quotes taken out of context also.

What?

You were talking about sec status of gankers, not mining links in POS shields (that was talked to death already and HTFU to Theme-Park is the title of the chart, hardly out of context).

It was stated that the tags arent a buff cause no ganker uses them cause they just stay at -10. If that's the case the larger sec hit isn't a negative cause gankers are already -10.

It was stated that the tags arent a buff cause no ganker uses them cause they just stay at -10. If that's the case the larger sec hit isn't a negative cause gankers are already -10.

So many have tried to address this over the years. The lack of response from CCP over the reformation of the NPE pretty much says "the players need to handle this".

And some did. Goons for example. Love them and hate them, they treat noobs well. Brave Newbies another example.

What the NPE lacks most, IMO, are two things:
- loss
- PVP

What's with the obsession with ganking? It isn't the only form of PvP that affects sec status. And adding a pseudo-requirement that it be done for profit doesn't offset the larger status hit.

If tags aren't a buff because they decide to remain at -10. Then status hit isn't a nerf because they decide to ... at -10

fill in the gap

If tags aren't a buff because they decide to remain at -10. Then status hit isn't a nerf because they decide to ... at -10

fill in the gap

Neither tags or sec status affect ganking. Stop thinking about only ganking.

Did you look at the image in OP? Not sure where you got the idea that this thread isn't about highsec pvp...

Seems we've reached the limit of useful discussion in this thread (probably a few pages ago actually). Just recycling the same things over and over now because people don't take the time to read the full discussion.

The state of rookie chat suggests they just don't care. HTFU, from day one. In the context of attracting new players, it's disgusting.


gnsc tell their players to GTFO out of highsec ASAP and only return to torment the people who remain. Some of the nerfs cited appear to be a result of their actions organising large scale highsec griefing campaigns. I keep seeing it mentioned that the removal of awoxing was proposed by a CSM member as a 'pet project', possibly Sion. Forum based communities leapfrog over highsec as players in the first place, and only return in a blob to stirr things, so I have a real issue with that intervention. Never mind CSM members having the leverage to get 'pet projects' implemented which they didn't campaign for at the point of election and would have been shot down in a hilarious ball of flames if they'd even tried. Transparency - but only for slagging other CSMs eh? **** your 'pet projects'.


The NPE is a tutorial to explain gameplay mechanics (which fails horriably) then violates the spirit of the game in the direction it implies new players should pursue. I've said previously I think the rookie tutorial should be a deathmatch you have to beat, and I meant it (sort of). They don't have to be mandatory, but it'd be a fun thing to trial. I'd resub alts to try it, loads of people would. But that might be open to abuse, in which case recruit player volunteers and reward them for participating.

Did you look at the image in the OP?

What's the title of the image?

and tags are a buff to carebearing, not pvp.

All I read is "I can't shoot people who don't want to be shot/know what to do anymore" tears. Second shard? Give me a break. The economics alone of highsec-lowsec-nullsec-WH interaction are MORE than enough to disprove that, not to mention lots of residients of other parts of space use highsec for various things.

Here's an idea. If you love PVP that much, come out to Low-sec and shoot people who A: Expect it. B: will shoot back.

Did you look at the image in OP? Not sure where you got the idea that this thread isn't about highsec pvp...

'concord response times'
'sec status penalties for gankers'
'insurance for gankers'
'exhumer ehp' (maybe talking about going out in battlebarges...don't think so since he states it's a nerf)
'venture warp stabs' (maybe not happy about trying to catch them in lowsec...)
'baiters reshipping in space'
'war dec costs'
'allies in wars'
'can-flipping'
'mining links in a pos' (ok I'll give you that one)
'afk mission bears'
'awoxing'
'social corps not being wardeccable'