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Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:30:37 - [151] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread that person suffered third-degree burns and was hospitalised for a week during the case mcdonalds was shown to have known about the hazard for years mcdonalds also admitted that the coffee wasn't suitable for human consumption
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9789	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:32:22 - [152] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to my privacy and not just theirs. Specially since there is no warning anywhere. Nor does there need to be one. It's on the individual to figure somethings out for themselves, Like I did 8 years ago (I actually asked the dude who brought me in to EVE about how secure EVEmail was and he said "it's e-mail in a computer game, what do you think?") and which you failed to do for 6 years up till now. Stop blaming others (like CCP) for personal failings. it's a bit different when the issue might involve personal information, and it becomes less about Eve Is Hard, Deal With It at the point where someone's ignorance might lead to them revealing personal information, even if it is partially or fully their fault, and where it really has nothing to do with the game, it's fine to idiot-proof it a little more. especially considering they're paying customers. failing to provide full information where it might become a real-life matter (and where it's not obvious the info you enterisn't designed to be secure from other users) is deffo the service provider's fault At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game?
Concord Guy's Cousin State War Academy Caldari State 630	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:35:38 - [153] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy: - I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them Forums are a form of social network so you're mistaken. - I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet Irrelevant, if your friends use social networks you'll probably find that there's way more than 3 pictures of you on the internet. - Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname Googling my real name, with or without my unusual middle name, returns between 42k and 15 million+ results (depending on the exact search terms). I'm pretty sure none relate to me, because A: I use pseudonyms and B: when I do use my real name I make damn sure that I can lock it down so it's not publically available. - I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it Which makes no difference at all, smartphones don't automagically put your information on the internet, they require user interaction for that to happen I consider myself a tech-luddite. It shows in your expectations of privacy on the internet. If you want privacy on the internet you have to take steps to ensure it, not rely on others to do it for you. And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to my privacy and not just theirs. It bothers me that you have an expectation of privacy in a virtual environment where nothing belongs to you, but actually belongs to a third party who can, and will share your details if they see fit. Specially since there is no warning anywhere. There is, it's in the EULA as has been posted elsewhere in this thread. ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries" NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 884	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:35:43 - [154] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread Seems more comparable to some of the warnings you see on power tools, like "do not operate chainsaw while intoxicated and holding a muskrat". Please do not attempt to stop chain with your leg. My favorite are the ones that say : !!!!!!WARNING!!!!!! Saw blade is sharp. No ***? Is that how those new fangled things work? I mean I would expect a warning if the handle was wrapped in rusty razor wire, but... I've honest to god seen "this drill is not intended to alleviate or cure any known medical condition". At least they left open the possibility* that the drill could have medicinal value in the future. Vote Sabriz!
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:36:55 - [155] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game? just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client i think people'll have a basic degree of trust with the service provider and are aware of the possibility the other person will have access to the mail it's not at all obvious that the mail may appear to another user e: durr. that should say "are aware the other person may share the contents of the mail"
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9791	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:38:16 - [156] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: On Another side note, anyone view this thread and get the "Gee, I didn't know McDonalds coffee and my private parts don't mix and now I'm surprised, I should sue someone because i didn't know coffee was hot" feel from this thread that person suffered third-degree burns and was hospitalised for a week during the case mcdonalds was shown to have known about the hazard for years mcdonalds also admitted that the coffee wasn't suitable for human consumption McDonalds made it's coffee hot enough to still be hot when you get home. They still do, but it's 158 degrees instead of 185. At no point (even now) is holding a cup of hot liquid WITH YOUR KNEES a good idea. That a Civil Jury awarded someone money for their stupidity (and that wasn't the 1st time) isn't an indicator of McDonalds wrong doing, it's an indicator that at least 12 suckers are born every minute.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:39:43 - [157] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: I've honest to god seen "this drill is not intended to alleviate or cure any known medical condition". At least they left open the possibility that the drill could have medicinal value in the future. i heard drills are used in brain surgery. i guess it's to cover the manufacturer's arse in case some dumb surgery's procerer tries to save a few bucks?
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:42:39 - [158] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: McDonalds made it's coffee hot enough to still be hot when you get home. They still do, but it's 158 degrees instead of 185. At no point (even now) is holding a cup of hot liquid WITH YOUR KNEES a good idea. i googled it and it sounds like most people just drank it drank coffee that the company knew was insuitable for human consumption mcdonalds has an eat-in area and was fully aware people would drink it when it was served to them that makes it mcdonald's fault
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9791	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:44:04 - [159] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game? just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client So did the user forget that they had to login to EVE to use it? At some point, people have to have some kind of responsibility for their own well being. The more you make excuses for dumb behavior, the more if it you get.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers 207	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:47:53 - [160] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy: - I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them - I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet - Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname - I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it I consider myself a tech-luddite. And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to my privacy and not just theirs. Specially since there is no warning anywhere. no warnings anywhere yea,,,, https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:48:00 - [161] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game? just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client So did the user forget that they had to login to EVE to use it? At some point, people have to have some kind of responsibility for their own well being. The more you make excuses for dumb behavior, the more if it you get. it looks like a normal mail client. those aren't designed to release information to other users. in eve, it is. that's not obvious. the api system is not obvious. i don't expect people to know about such out-of-the-way things right when they begin the game. that's an unreasonable expectation it's not at all dumb behaviour to be ignorant of some things when you begin the game
Godfrey Silvarna Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 296	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:49:02 - [162] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game? just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client Well, it IS a normal mail client. It is easy and quite normal for recipients of email to have their email clients set up to forward all incoming mail to all kinds of places and third party applications. An eve user having an API key set up to forward their mail to third party applications is exactly the same as what a lot of people do with their "real" email. Do you people run around screaming that Mozilla should remove all options dealing with automatic mail forwarding from Thunderbird, because a recipient might forward your mails to someone else? Quote: It looks like a normal mail client. those aren't designed to release information to other users. This is the dumbest thing I have read all day. Sending information to other users is LITERALLY the purpose of a mail client.
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1095	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:50:24 - [163] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Malcanis wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: I just read that apparently full API access allows corporations to read the EVE-mail of potential new recruits. I wonder if that includes any EVE-mails sent to that person, or being quoted by that person. Yep. Any evemail. That's interesting, as nobody CCP warned me that full APIs would compromise my privacy if I as much as sent a evemail to someone and that someone intended to join a player corporation and provided a full API. Let's say that for some reason, I trust someone and evemail him some personal data, and that someone joins a corporation unaware of what a full API does mean to any personal data being shared through CCP's services... I really wonder now whether CCP warns of that, somewhere. You sent your personal info to someone, and then complain that someone might be able to read it via an API call. Do you even realize what you're saying? You yourself released that information. If you didn't want it released, why did you release it? Internetz 101, m8. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Concord Guy's Cousin State War Academy Caldari State 633	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:51:10 - [164] - Quote Is it too early for this? ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries" NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9792	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:52:17 - [165] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: To all the people jumping to conclussions about my e-privacy: - I don't owe any account on social networks, and never owned them - I've uploaded exactly 3 pictures of myself to internet - Googling my real name produces 10 results, of which 6 aren't me but persons with a similar surname - I don't owe a smartphone. My cellular was bought in august 2006 and I still use it I consider myself a tech-luddite. And it bothers me that CCP's shoddy corporation mechanics and questionable API pulls end up with anyone reading my answers to other people asking for personal matters if those persons don't understand what "full API" means to my privacy and not just theirs. Specially since there is no warning anywhere. no warnings anywhere yea,,,, https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/ yea, how dare they not warn anyone! [quote=CCP]What is an API key? What do I use it for? The API key is a private code that identifies your account and allows third party programs and web sites to access information about your characters and corporations. Using this data, such utilities can improve your EVE experience by providing useful functionality such as wallet exports, skill training notifications, and other tools. Is this safe? Can someone steal my account? It is safe to provide your API key to applications and web sites as long as you are prepared to allow the application or web site to see your character and corporation information. You can specify which information is accessible for each customizable API key. Sharing an API key does NOT give people access to your account while sharing your account password would. Therein lies the whole purpose of API keys. An API key only allows the recipient to view your character and corporation data but gives them NO control over it. They are NOT able to log in to the game or post on the forums with the API information. No part of the API key information is in any way generated from your account password - there is no way to calculate your password using this information. This is the only safe way to give programs and web sites access to your data. Do not give out your account username or password to any person, program, or web site. Please keep in mind that doing so is a violation of the EULA and can lead to account termination. I still don't like it. If you are not certain that the web site or program asking for your API key is safe, please do not give it to them! You are responsible for any usage of the information obtained by using your API keys. I gave someone my API key and now I want them to stop using it! If you believe that someone is misusing your API key, you can delete it from the list above or simply change the Verification Code. Please note that all programs and web sites that are using your old API key information will no longer be able to access your data unless you provide them with the updated info or a new API key. You can view API activity on your account by using the API Access Log. If you believe someone is misusing one of your API keys, please change the Verification Code or delete the API key from the list above.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers 207	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:52:32 - [166] - Quote Concord Guy's Cousin wrote: Is it too early for this? no not at all,, if you ask me it's late.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:53:38 - [167] - Quote Godfrey Silvarna wrote: This is the dumbest thing I have read all day. Sending information to other uses is LITERALLY the whole purpose of a mail client. 'other' being third-party users. don't be dense. Quote: Do you people run around screaming that Mozilla should remove all options dealing with automatic mail forwarding from Thunderbird, because a recipient might forward your mails to someone else? did i suggest that api functions be removed? no. don't be dense. did i suggest that most users of mail are aware of the possibility that the intended recipient may do something with the contents of the mail? yes. learn to read.
Jallukola 39	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:53:41 - [168] - Quote That is why you always keep the EVE Mail cleared everytime you move to another corporation, wipe it all and tell contacts to stay in touch via third party. The greatest battle music of all time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67MPxnPHBNk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16RCvtziXj0
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9792	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:55:05 - [169] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: At what point does a person using EVE mail not know it's mail....in a video game? just because it's not entirely obvious - it looks like a normal mail client So did the user forget that they had to login to EVE to use it? At some point, people have to have some kind of responsibility for their own well being. The more you make excuses for dumb behavior, the more if it you get. it looks like a normal mail client. those aren't designed to release information to other users. in eve, it is. that's not obvious. the api system is not obvious. i don't expect people to know about such out-of-the-way things right when they begin the game. that's an unreasonable expectation it's not at all dumb behaviour to be ignorant of some things when you begin the game The OP didn't begin the game, he's been here for 6 years. Still that excuse making is useless. If someone is dumb enough to not understand it's email in a video game, whatever happens is on them. Being old enough to us a computer means being old enough to take at least some responsibility for yourself.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:56:38 - [170] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: yea, how dare they not warn anyone! most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time ~~in the day~~ to live their damn lives at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9792	Posted - 2015.02.16 14:59:43 - [171] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: yea, how dare they not warn anyone! most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time ~~in the day~~ to live their damn lives at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api I know you're smarter than this. The thing I quoted IS ON THE API PAGE. You literally cannot access your apis without seeing what i quoted. Why are you championing irresponsibility and clueless-ness.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:01:34 - [172] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: The OP didn't begin the game, he's been here for 6 years. i seriously don't care about the op Quote: Still that excuse making is useless. If someone is dumb enough to not understand it's email in a video game i've said repeatedly that it's not entirely the users' fault if they misinterpret the security of evemail. that implies some fault. i am saying it's an understandable mistake to make, and one that's ok to compensate for. it's not a case of being dumb, it's a case of being ignorant. where the information is not obviously accessible or hidden in ten pages of legal bullshit, that can be considered a fault of the provider
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:02:22 - [173] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: yea, how dare they not warn anyone! most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time ~~in the day~~ to live their damn lives at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api I know you're smarter than this. The thing I quoted IS ON THE API PAGE. You literally cannot access your apis without seeing what i quoted. Why are you championing irresponsibility and clueless-ness. evemails can be accessed from the recipient's api. if you ever need me to help you understand eve online, i'm here to help.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers 208	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:02:35 - [174] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: yea, how dare they not warn anyone! most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time ~~in the day~~ to live their damn lives at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api most people are stupid.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:05:45 - [175] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: yea, how dare they not warn anyone! most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time ~~in the day~~ to live their damn lives at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api most people are stupid. which is a good case for our services being designed to cater to our stupid needs
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers 208	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:06:59 - [176] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: where the information is not obviously accessible or hidden in ten pages of legal bullshit, that can be considered a fault of the provider it's the providers fault that someone refused to read ? or it's the providers fault for not explaining it barney style ? because this is pretty clear.
Godfrey Silvarna Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 300	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:07:53 - [177] - Quote If you call someone, they can record your phone call and send it to FOX News. Should phones have warnings about other telephone users? If you send someone a letter, they can take a BILLION photocopies of it and scatter them all over the continent if they wish. Should mailboxes have warnings that you should not send mail to people you don't trust? If you send someone an email, they can forward it to their entire contact list and all the mailing lists of the world. Should all computers come with warning stickers about not sending sensitive information to suspicious people? If you send someone an EVEmail, they can copy paste it to anywhere, forward it to anyone or make it readable by anyone if they wish. Should EVE come with warnings about not trusting random people with sensitive information?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9793	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:08:35 - [178] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: yea, how dare they not warn anyone! most people don't read every single piece of documentation related to the service. in fact, i'm willing to bet you haven't read all the documentation and eulas you've ever signed. there's too much and normal people only have so much time ~~in the day~~ to live their damn lives at this point it's acceptable for the service provider to respond to how people might actually be using the service. this can easily be done without disrupting the function of the api I know you're smarter than this. The thing I quoted IS ON THE API PAGE. You literally cannot access your apis without seeing what i quoted. Why are you championing irresponsibility and clueless-ness. evemails can be accessed from the recipient's api. if you ever need me to help you understand eve online, i'm here to help. You think you're helping, all who 'think of the (stupid) children' think that. What really helps is telling someone "you are responsible for yourself". Anyone with any brains knew from day one ( day two at the most) that video game email isn't secure in any way , even if the video game company doesn't tell you. Talking to you is exactly like talking to my kids about this. With one, i decided to let them be hard-headed since he wanted to argue with me. Their is still an....unflattering....picture of him floating around the internet forever. He is no longer hard-headed on the issue.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:10:20 - [179] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: Benny Ohu wrote: where the information is not obviously accessible or hidden in ten pages of legal bullshit, that can be considered a fault of the provider it's the providers fault that someone refused to read ? or it's the providers fault for not explaining it barney style ? because this is pretty clear. where most people don't read it before using the evemail service, which i'm willing to bet occurs, yes, it needs to be more obvious. the issue is not comprehending the information, it is an issue of the information being delivered to the users effectively
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 4280	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:11:36 - [180] - Quote Godfrey Silvarna wrote: If you call someone, they can record your phone call and send it to FOX News. Should phones have warnings about other telephone users? If you send someone a letter, they can take a BILLION photocopies of it and scatter them all over the continent if they wish. Should mailboxes have warnings that you should not send mail to people you don't trust? If you send someone an email, they can forward it to their entire contact list and all the mailing lists of the world. Should all computers come with warning stickers about not sending sensitive information to suspicious people? If you send someone an EVEmail, they can copy paste it to anywhere, forward it to anyone or make it readable by anyone if they wish. Should EVE come with warnings about not trusting random people with sensitive information? if you want to read my posts again, you can go to eve-search and see all the posts made just by me. please do so before replying again, and try to comprehend them this time

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