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Trak Cranker Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.06 23:38:00 - [91] Edited by: Trak Cranker on 06/10/2006 23:38:30 Originally by: Arakk Edited by: Arakk on 06/10/2006 18:12:49 That it is currently impossible to take down any deathstars in TDE right now. So we adapted and reacted, faster than you. You don't think we could have put the needed POSs up? There is supposed to be two ways to ensure you have the larger number of POSs. But there is not. Theres adapting and there is exploiting. Quote CCP: "12.5 Do you consider it cheating if someone uses a known bug? Yes." Article 22 of the Terms of Service: "You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players." I do believe you admitted to doing both knowingly in the above. That aside I can only back up the levelheaded responses on both sides. As the days wore on, the fights in TDE became almost non existing(well except for Drarius, props to him - 20 BS or so? :)) and going to 020 to visit Roadkill almost always ensured a fight. And as some said, good and varied ones. Win or lose. I was after Roadkill in the beginning of the conflict for backstabbing us - and that stands. But credit goes where credit is due.
Orbital Drift Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 00:15:00 - [92] I must give r0adkill props for being steadfast allies and generally, all-around kickass guys. Additionaly, I must single out Edgewise: Man, you were there nearly _every_ day of this whole thing giving better than you got. Don't think that you owe me anything for the vagabonds, I got every isk worth out of it with you in the pilot's seat. And if you ever, Great Matar forbid, find yourself without a corp I would take great pleasure in accepting your application on behalf of Unknown Shoe. Finally, Drarius: You could lose more Domis that Fars has (and that's a lot) and you will do no wrong in my eyes.
Orc A Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:30:00 - [93] Originally by: Trak Cranker Edited by: Trak Cranker on 06/10/2006 23:38:30 Originally by: Arakk Edited by: Arakk on 06/10/2006 18:12:49 That it is currently impossible to take down any deathstars in TDE right now. So we adapted and reacted, faster than you. You don't think we could have put the needed POSs up? There is supposed to be two ways to ensure you have the larger number of POSs. But there is not. Theres adapting and there is exploiting. Quote CCP: "12.5 Do you consider it cheating if someone uses a known bug? Yes." Article 22 of the Terms of Service: "You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players." I do believe you admitted to doing both knowingly in the above. That aside I can only back up the levelheaded responses on both sides. As the days wore on, the fights in TDE became almost non existing(well except for Drarius, props to him - 20 BS or so? :)) and going to 020 to visit Roadkill almost always ensured a fight. And as some said, good and varied ones. Win or lose. I was after Roadkill in the beginning of the conflict for backstabbing us - and that stands. But credit goes where credit is due. Server instabillity and Bugs are 2 rather very diffrent things. Originally by: End Yourself hey! we are BoB's lapdogs! not Oberon's or ASCN's!!!
Icabelle The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 16:56:00 - [94] Ratel, I understand that loosing sucks, But the accusasions of spamming, cargo cans, pos spam, ship spam, spam bacons eggs and spam, spam spam spam beans and spam, Then what is this? I mean since you had an outpost in the system why did you need to leave 17 shuttles, noobships and more, at your pos? There have been many fun fights, I kill people, people kill me, and that is how I want eve to be. There are many fun/good people in the Rattel/FE/wr3ck/anyothercorpthatwastherehelpingrattelatthetime (S4xon I hate your Tempest, but in a good way) group and I feel all this snivelling is at best not doing them any favors. and keep in mind what Nikolai V. Gogo sayd "What's the point of blaming the mirror if you don't like what you see?"
Soho Torres VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 18:13:00 - [95] Edited by: Soho Torres on 07/10/2006 18:13:58 s4xon's tempest= Deadly
Crypt Gallente Raging Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 18:29:00 - [96] Cheese To a few, very few Smash and Roadkill that are worthy of respect, good fights, thanks for the fun times, it was a blast. To the rest - lol, you guys are a joke, especially Emperor. Emperor anytime you'd like to take me up on the 1 on 1 offer you just let me know and I'll be there to pop you. "grow a sack, come attack" Quote: It is a poor sort of man who is content to be spoon-fed knowledge that has been filtered through the canon of religious or political belief
HellsRazor Caldari FACTA NON VERBA	Posted - 2006.10.07 18:57:00 - [97] i'll be your huckleberry
Orc A Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:43:00 - [98] Funny how only after theya re defeated they start asking for 1v1's. I've been offerin' 1v1s to you guys since the first day i arrived to TDE, and not a single ratel ever took up the offer. Now you wanna 1v1 emperor? heh. come 1v1 me. Originally by: End Yourself hey! we are BoB's lapdogs! not Oberon's or ASCN's!!!
Crypt Gallente Raging Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 21:10:00 - [99] I offered a 1 vs 1 to Emperor a long time ago in UG and then again in UER where he had run off to and then again in TDE where he had run to his POS to hide. I followed him offering it to him. Both of us were in interceptors but he kept saying he doesn't fight 1 on 1. I just figured I'd offer it to him one more time to see if maybe he'd changed his mind now that he has an outpost to run to. Quote: It is a poor sort of man who is content to be spoon-fed knowledge that has been filtered through the canon of religious or political belief
Orc A Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.08 00:41:00 - [100] tbh m8, i dont think he even reads this. and on another note - will be happy to 1v1 any ratel pilots (BS only). Originally by: End Yourself hey! we are BoB's lapdogs! not Oberon's or ASCN's!!!
DanMck Amarr Rionnag Alba Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.08 09:18:00 - [101] Edited by: DanMck on 08/10/2006 09:24:49 Edited by: DanMck on 08/10/2006 09:23:31 Originally by: Icabelle Ratel, I understand that loosing sucks, But the accusasions of spamming, cargo cans, pos spam, ship spam, spam bacons eggs and spam, spam spam spam beans and spam, Then what is this? I mean since you had an outpost in the system why did you need to leave 17 shuttles, noobships and more, at your pos? There have been many fun fights, I kill people, people kill me, and that is how I want eve to be. There are many fun/good people in the Rattel/FE/wr3ck/anyothercorpthatwastherehelpingrattelatthetime (S4xon I hate your Tempest, but in a good way) group and I feel all this snivelling is at best not doing them any favors. and keep in mind what Nikolai V. Gogo sayd "What's the point of blaming the mirror if you don't like what you see?" the ship array on our medium tower was offlined after it was attacked and put into reinforced (after shields recharged) so we could online more weapons this was at the time the smallest tower in local and talking of corpsthathelpedthengetyourfactsstraight roadkill/smash/exe outcomes/turb serv/sector 7/ram/beagle/Archangels of Chaos/Krayz Dams Inc./Drunk in Public/Facta Non Verba and i can't be bothered thinking of anyone else p.s enjoy the fuel jumps
Arakk Caldari VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.09 07:34:00 - [102] Edited by: Arakk on 09/10/2006 07:36:08 Originally by: Trak Cranker Edited by: Trak Cranker on 06/10/2006 23:38:30 Originally by: Arakk Edited by: Arakk on 06/10/2006 18:12:49 That it is currently impossible to take down any deathstars in TDE right now. So we adapted and reacted, faster than you. You don't think we could have put the needed POSs up? There is supposed to be two ways to ensure you have the larger number of POSs. But there is not. Theres adapting and there is exploiting. Quote CCP: "12.5 Do you consider it cheating if someone uses a known bug? Yes." Article 22 of the Terms of Service: "You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players." I do believe you admitted to doing both knowingly in the above. That aside I can only back up the levelheaded responses on both sides. As the days wore on, the fights in TDE became almost non existing(well except for Drarius, props to him - 20 BS or so? :)) and going to 020 to visit Roadkill almost always ensured a fight. And as some said, good and varied ones. Win or lose. I was after Roadkill in the beginning of the conflict for backstabbing us - and that stands. But credit goes where credit is due. Confirm/deny this is what you believe/are saying...Since the node couldnt handle raids on pos's, and since its "exploiting" to put up pos's cause you dont get mails (despite someone in your alliance whitnessed the pos constructions, notified us that he knew the EXACT number we were constructing in local, and apparently failed to tell anyone in ratel) the bug should have allowed you complete control of sov until an undefined date when the node and/or mails were fixed? So ultimately you think people shouldnt be able to play the game... or conquer systems on crappy nodes until theyre perfect? And i'd think twice about throwing accusations like that, especially if i was from an alliance that used a GM issued seize-fire to put up a pos in UER and UG-. Fact of the matter is NEVER did we exploit a "known bug." the known bug existed as a side effect of our plan, that is all, nothing more. Would you have been able to do anything about 30 pos's in a couple hours anyway? Obviously not, considering one of your mates knew the PRECISE number of pos's being put up mere minutes after we started the operation...so the mails meant nothing, because you could DO nothing. There was one way to conquer this system. And one way to defend it, we succeeded, end of story. Just because theres a mail bug and the server cant handle raids, doesnt mean you have to pass your defeat off as an "exploit". Its a **** poor excuse as well as a scape goat. There was no exploiting involved. Bugs exist, its a fact of gaming, to simply stop playing or give up on a campaign because of it is ridiculous.
Shard Gallente Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.10 23:17:00 - [103] These are the facts in TDE4-H: Ratel built an outpost. Smash and R0ADKILL took it away from us. Plain and simple. There is no reason to smack talk, there is no reason to accuse each other of exploiting any game system. My hat is off to the guys that accomplished their goals, and that includes both Ratel, and Smash/R0adkill. Several of my long time friends in game had a silly goal- build an outpost. We were not part of a large established alliance; we were not part of any alliance at all. We had been in others, and there always seemed to be flaws, or breakdowns, that caused most of them to dissolve, become ineffective, or just did not suit our tastes. So we set about doing it on our own. We found ways to make isk, and raised the needed cash to build the thing. We needed sovereignty in a system to put it up, so we formed an alliance to do that. We identified an area that did not have any of the big alliances claiming it. We moved there, fought some people, and eventually got some people to join us. Many of these corps were ôyoungö in game terms, had players that had not been around for 3+ years, and didnÆt have 40 Million skill points, or 2-300 members. We took those that we felt had the same kind of vision that we did, that would stick it out and be determined. And in that we succeeded. We set up in TDE4-H. We evaluated our chances and strategy for holding it, and the repercussions if we did not. We got our crap together, and eventually we moved it there and assembled the darn thing. Those who have done it know the effort that is involved. We were not a group that was paralyzed by fear or the possibility of ôlosing itö. We understood the risks, and we did it anyways. There is no minimum IQ to play EvE. :D It is always important to have goals, and to try to achieve them. We did that. On August 3rd, the outpost was completed, and the first pilots docked. Smash was right on our heelsà There was no peace possible. From near 07 Aug 06 onward, there was a hostile presence in TDE4 almost all the time. I asked all pilots to forego making isk and try to fight against the invaders. I tried to make some friendly relationships with some corporations to assist us. Hats off to Wreckless Abandon and Forsaken Empire corporations for having some faith in Ratel, going with the underdog unknown alliance, and helping us out. You will always be blue to me (I will defend myself though!) On October 5th, we lost sovereignty in TDE4-H. In the end, Smash got what they came for. They evaluated what the game required and did what they had to, to capture the outpost. It was a game well played, and now they get to enjoy the fruits of their labor. What did Ratel get from it? Somebody much smarter than I has said ôYou are not your shipö. That is also true for the outpost in TDE4-H. Ratel is NOT that outpost. The 11-12 weeks of siege we were under has done nothing but make us stronger, and hopefully smarter. Personally, the outpost in TDE4-H will always be there, and I will always feel some pride knowing that we built it with a small group of players. Not many can say that in Eve. We were not afraid to roll the dice, invest the isk, and see a dream come into existence. We learned a lot about our own capabilities, developed a stronger alliance for the effort, and anticipate continued success building the alliance and reaching the next set of goals. To the Smash leaders, I will miss the constant conversation in local and chat. Thanks for being up front and honest with me. Too bad our goals had to be in conflict, but hopefully you understand why they need to stay that way. At the end of the day, EvE is a game/hobby. I enjoyed the struggle; I hope you do as well.
Orbital Drift Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 01:25:00 - [104] Excellent post.
Zortak Caldari Lords of Andromeda SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 02:58:00 - [105] Indeed, well said. /signed Zortak
Koronos Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:32:00 - [106] /emote bows to Shard.
Trak Cranker Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:03:00 - [107] Edited by: Trak Cranker on 11/10/2006 19:03:37 I would prefer for Shards words to stand alone, but Arakk raised a few uncertainties as to what I might mean in previous posts. Originally by: Arakk Confirm/deny this is what you believe/are saying...Since the node couldnt handle raids on pos's, and since its "exploiting" to put up pos's cause you dont get mails <snip> the bug should have allowed you complete control of sov until an undefined date when the node and/or mails were fixed? That is not what I was saying, no. I did in fact not concern myself in that post with what the alternative should then be. I would like to see one for sure. Because I would not like for that to be the way it should work, no. But quite ironically that is what you went for. Complete control of sov. until the bug is fixed. Originally by: Arakk So ultimately you think people shouldnt be able to play the game... or conquer systems on crappy nodes until theyre perfect? They are not crappy. They break when you attack POSs. They disable a specific option in the game. And again, thats not what I think. But again, ironically that is exactly what the option you went for, knowingly by your own account, gave you. Originally by: Arakk And i'd think twice about throwing accusations like that, especially if i was from an alliance that used a GM issued seize-fire to put up a pos in UER and UG-. I do not believe I made any accusations. I made logical deductions from what you yourself said and asked if you disagreed and could point out the holes in the logic. I don't really see that happening. Originally by: Arakk Would you have been able to do anything about 30 pos's in a couple hours anyway?... There was one way to conquer this system. And one way to defend it, we succeeded, end of story. We might have done something to the four you had prior to that. And indeed tried to, only to be stopped by the node crashes. The lack of the erection mails is a small problem in this picture. The problem was the fact, as you point out, that once they were erected, the option that should have been available to us, was not. And we would not be required to do anything in hours. But in 5 days. And we would not have had to deal with all 30 POSs necessarily. Could we have done that succesfully? Hard to say. But we did not have the option. Quote: Just because theres a mail bug and the server cant handle raids, doesnt mean you have to pass your defeat off as an "exploit". Its a **** poor excuse as well as a scape goat. There was no exploiting involved. Bugs exist, its a fact of gaming, to simply stop playing or give up on a campaign because of it is ridiculous. As far as giving up on a campaign because of bugs being ridiculous goes, please evaluate the bug at hand first? Any campaign imaginable would currently have an insurmountable wall between us and the goal. Now pursuing _that_ would have been ridiculous. When, in essence, the other side fires and CCP accepts that you cannot shoot back, its hardly ridiculous to stop playing at all. You might have beaten us using this tactic anyways - I don't want to take anything away from the prowess evident in slamming up that many POSs in that time. We were not given the choice of proving ourselves wrong though. You yourself said that you realised that it was the only option and took it. That realisation though, must have come from the knowledge of the broken state of the game. And knowingly taking advantage of a broken state of the game is, not by my assesment ony kind of passing off - but the pure logic of it, an exploit. Acceptable as it might be. You might be overestimating the resentment I hold towards you guys for doing it. It is more the situation that has me irked. But the situation being the way it is, for the reasons it is, I just took exception to the proclaimed superiority in adapting.
Pheleus	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:18:00 - [108] Edited by: Pheleus on 12/10/2006 11:20:15 Quote: ER wanted RATEL and friends to "loan" them our large towers in system so that they could start their initial assualt. We would not be paid for the use of these towers and they would basically be in ERs hands until they decided to give them back. This is another part of their "offer" we could not agree too. This is to mujin only and i will convo the same, it was a great fight although i have left smash for the moment. You have received many critics but in a tough situation you did very well, I enjoyed every fight i was involved with and thanks to all Ratel for there honourable combat (never was a smacked nor did i smack) MUCH respect to Ratel and yourself for the above 'quote' good on you guys for not lowering yourselfs to their level!!!! Pheleus. PS, didnt read all post's but come-on guys its only a game stop measuring and move on!
God's Army Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:34:00 - [109] Perfect post Shard /signed ---- R0ADKILL ALLIANCE Killboard
Adolpho Caldari The Sanctum Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 20:15:00 - [110] Edited by: Adolpho on 12/10/2006 20:15:38 I just wanted to pop in and say a big thankyou to the Roadkill folks - I think almost all of you that posted here had not an ill word to write. I'm just sorry that you didn't get the outpost you earned out of all of this. Hats off to you.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.13 00:08:00 - [111] Props to Shard for his perfect post and to Adolpho, great fights.. that lil camp at EOA today nearly got my crusader heh
Shadow Mancer The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.13 04:17:00 - [112] Shard, not only were u a good fighter but also an excellent poster, a true master of the writen English ;-) I can confirm that, see u even made Roadkill's roughneck like God's Army wrote in here without SMACK ;-)
God's Army Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.13 11:33:00 - [113] Originally by: Shadow Mancer Shard, not only were u a good fighter but also an excellent poster, a true master of the writen English ;-) I can confirm that, see u even made Roadkill's roughneck like God's Army wrote in here without SMACK ;-) /me hits shadow mancer with brick ---- R0ADKILL ALLIANCE Killboard

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