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Khai'ne
True Grit.
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 01:35:00 -
[91] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Khai'ne wrote:But should the game be all about combat? Yes. That creates a dynamic that has no equal in any other game out there, and it lets us have this quite unique marketplace and player economy that sits at the very core of the game. Quote:The fact that CCP has added the features of mining, building and so on suggests that, at one point at least, they intended the creation half of the cycle to be an important part of the game. However, at the moment it is obvious that participating in the desctructive side of eve is far more involved and varied, and worryingly it is this side that nigh on all of the recent updates are focusing on. GǪyou mean apart from all the new stuff that's being added that gives the creative side more things to create, most notably some of the things the OP whines about? What your fact is missing is that CCP implemented those creative parts in such a way that they are also part of the PvP dynamics that makes combat so involved and varied. It's when you try to separate yourself from that dynamic that the variation and involvement is lost. Crucible added more stuff for the creative-minded to be creative with.
OK, you seem to have missed my point so I'll try to re-word it. I agree that EVE has a unique dynamic and this is in part to its similary unique combat system . However I don't think that improving the non-combat aspects of the game will compromise the combat part in any way.
I'm not asking for any distancing between the destructive and creative aspects, because the way they interlink is the most exciting thing about both of them. However I think they should both be equally important, equally difficult and have an equal opportunity for player skill to make a difference.
This does not mean adding more things to manufacture or harvest by right clicking and then letting your character skills do the work, it means a total revamp of the manufacturing system, invention system etc.
I understand that maybe this is not what the majority of the playerbase want; they only want to blow things up, which is why CCP is concentrating on that side of things.
But this does mean that people like the OP are no longer catered for, it is why they are quitting, and hopefully I'm making it a bit clearer why it is misguided to flame them for it. |

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
341
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 01:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
So I can understand how the OP came to this point. All the folks bashing him need to consider that a lot of folks are reaching the same place as the OP.
I've been in Eve for quite some time, been in a corp, started a corp, lived in null, started an alliance and I've seen the experience change a lot over time. CCP has let elements of the game dominate their thinking and let things creep to a point where a lot of things no longer work as intended. The small corp, casual or solo players are getting hurt by this the most.
Things that were fun when I started that aren't any more include:
Low sec, CCP never intended someone to be able to tank and perma-camp a low sec gate. Now all the gate guns do is kill the occasional new player that forgets about the agression timer.
Low sec ore used to be worth some risk, no longer.
Basic trade routes are no longer worth it.
Ratting used to be a lot more fun in high and low sec than it is now since all the drops have been nerfed to the point of instant reprocess.
Killing NPC convoys used to be worthwhile, does anyone even do that anymore?
Combat was a lot more "even", now the really high end ships dominate by a much larger margin and low sec now has the bored giant alliance cap fleet hot drop to add the misery.
Static sites were more rewarding
There was interesting stuff to look at, CCP no longer puts stuff like this "not a sign" sign or cool abandoned structures to encourage exploration for tourism.
Now the CCP hive mind seems dominated by large alliances and null. And the little guys hasn't felt the luvin for a long time.
So I'd say give the OP some slack, his reactions and sentiments are legitimate. The beauty of Eve was it once seemed to really create an enviroment where any play style could be enjoyed, as time goes on that promise seems diminished. You have to wonder how that plays out for Eve in the long run.
Issler |

Adara Ikkala
Interstellar Federation of Discovery
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 01:37:00 -
[93] - Quote
Myxx wrote:You're the type of totally-risk-averse-mindset player that EVE needs less of or needs to break new habits into. How about you learn to live and thrive in lowsec?
OMG Yes!
At the risk of being slightly off topic, I Can't tell you how big of a downer it was to try to organize lowsec roams, and have your corpies talk a lot of PvP smack but then cop out because 'My ship might get popped' The thing they seem to forget is...
WE CAN MAKE A INFINANT NUMBER OF SHIPS, just a matter of time. |

Hershman
G-Weezy
101
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 01:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Hyacinthous wrote:Hershman wrote:If you cannot adapt, then you die. This thread is the 'GAME OVER' screen of Eve. If the foundation to adapt isn't within the fundamentals of the game then Everyone dies regardless. Oh wait, that's all eve is about - dying. Enjoy wasting your lives never accomplishing anything while you dedicate all of your days and nights to this lackluster imitation of a space game that doesn't even feature zero-g vacuum simulation, manual controls, or more hardcore elements mostly found in scifi. The complaint isn't saying he can't adapt, he is saying that there is no reason to because there is no potential reward for adapting. In other words, players are losing motivation to play because of corruption and the rigged/manipulated market ruining the game. Hell I logged on the 29th just to get the free implant (pathetic but who cares, can't even use it - "slot is filled" with better implant) and decided to grab some skillbooks but had to go 20 jumps just to get to an old school system that wasn't completely borked on the market. People buying the skill books and re-selling them twice as much, those people can f themselves and die irl. Thanks. Anyway, OP is right regardless of what all you brown nosers proclaim, the game is dying because CCP can't even reinforce their own game's design and rules. Two examples: People breaking in-game mechanics to avoid consequences = unfair advantage = game broken; Second example: Poker website using bounty system as leaderboards and free advertising = broken and abused ingame mechanic that has been neglected for so many years = broken game. Anyone who wants to be a kickass bounty hunter (say, cowboy bebop style) can't because this game is broken and abused by it's player base : aka : griefers. Eve = Griefers vs Griefers. Anyway, Anyone innocent or just trying to enjoy the game will always get caught in between these idiot griefers who ruin the game to spite other people just to try and fill the giant empty void that is where their soul and consciousness should be. No offense to CCP, I mean they are trying... But this game could be so much better in so many facets if they just cared more about the game instead of the revenue they get. When you care about your game, the money that comes from it is just icing on the cake. I shouldn't have to explain that a well made game = more revenue but products just made for revenue = lackluster and uninspired and usually tank/don't do well/or just crawl along.
nice try. |

Steveir
Hagukure Empire Industry
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 01:59:00 -
[95] - Quote
Obviously there is bit of shake up on PI, but why not wait till the dust settles before declairing epic fail. For example, one industrialist is trying to set up an Alliance for losec PI. If you have the resources why not help him? Personally I'm looking forward to lauching my first POCO and getting it blown up in 48 hours - it not really money, its all about having fun. Life is good.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1838
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 02:04:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ol Gregg wrote:I cannot wait for the day when EVE continues to bleed subscribers and eventually has to launch ridiculous offers to try to lure new players in so that they don't have to s***can the game, along with your profit margins..
Oh, wait. That's today.. Funny thatGǪ we're currently seeing the kind of post-patch bump that Incarna completely failed to generate. So no, that was six months ago. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
615
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 02:42:00 -
[97] - Quote
Myxx wrote:You're the type of totally-risk-averse-mindset player that EVE needs less of or needs to break new habits into. How about you learn to live and thrive in lowsec?
Low sec, and null for that matter, is for people afraid to live without local. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
170
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 03:00:00 -
[98] - Quote
OP:
"Oh no! I can't run risk-free level 5 missions due to a game glitch anymore! Oh no! I can't make several hundred million per month of passive isk for basically no risk anymore!"
HTFU, STFU. Failing that, GTFO. |

Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
271
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 03:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:message clearly received. High sec players that are soloists or in small corps are not wanted.
As the last remaining player in my once fun and thriving corp, I too will be moving on to an mmo where production and harvesting are operational spheres that dont require subjecting yourself to gank happy pvp'ers
I have taken down the POS with its construction and research bays I have hauled our stuff to Jita and sold it at buy prices (so no you cant have my stuff) I will not bother to visit my PI sites again as launch taxes now exceed the market value of the goods from my humble , low efficiency high sec planets.
When my plex runs out you can add me to the growing statistic of casual players that find no game value in EVE anymore.
perhaps i should turn on my CQ option again to remind me how well dev resources were spent on creating a login lagfest, so I wont wax sentimental about rejoining the game.
To those who I have been able to assist with materials and ships, perhaps our paths will cross again in the mmo's we discussed. in the meantime, fly safe. have fun leavwiz
Join the dark side.  F&ID: Skill Training, Agent Finder What is CCP Guard gonna do with that grenade? |

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
334
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 04:47:00 -
[100] - Quote
So you can ONLY do what you did BEFORE PI?
fuckin crybaby Let us eat cake! -áI mean open containers in corp hangers please ... Let us stack all modules (eliminate repackaging), except damaged ones, give them a red hue/icon. Let us see damaged drones in our drone bay!
|

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 05:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:message clearly received. High sec players that are soloists or in small corps are not wanted.
As the last remaining player in my once fun and thriving corp, I too will be moving on to an mmo where production and harvesting are operational spheres that dont require subjecting yourself to gank happy pvp'ers
Have you considered that perhaps your corpmates abandoned you for other reasons?
Perhaps they all secretly hate you. |

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
102
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 07:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
And now I'm gonna tell you the funniest thing of all...
The Stellar Souncil is supposed to represent the players, but due to its own nature and mechanics, it only represents nullsec alliances.
Starting with an alliance whose goal is to spoil every MMORPG they put their claws on, and whose visible head is head of the SC.
I really wonder who is in charge of customer satisfaction in CCP...  So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...-á
Why should I keep paying to play this game? |

Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
44
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 07:55:00 -
[103] - Quote
The game is back and you are leaving? Oo
I iz confuzed!!! "It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say." -á-á-á -Swooshie |

First Lieutenant Dan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 08:09:00 -
[104] - Quote
Consider using actual money to play the game.
(Insert story here) |

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
207
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 08:20:00 -
[105] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:message clearly received. High sec players that are soloists or in small corps are not wanted.
As the last remaining player in my once fun and thriving corp, I too will be moving on to an mmo where production and harvesting are operational spheres that dont require subjecting yourself to gank happy pvp'ers
I have taken down the POS with its construction and research bays I have hauled our stuff to Jita and sold it at buy prices (so no you cant have my stuff) I will not bother to visit my PI sites again as launch taxes now exceed the market value of the goods from my humble , low efficiency high sec planets.
When my plex runs out you can add me to the growing statistic of casual players that find no game value in EVE anymore.
perhaps i should turn on my CQ option again to remind me how well dev resources were spent on creating a login lagfest, so I wont wax sentimental about rejoining the game.
To those who I have been able to assist with materials and ships, perhaps our paths will cross again in the mmo's we discussed. in the meantime, fly safe. have fun leavwiz
Sad to see you're leaving. I understand where you're coming from and that makes it even sadder, but holds a great deal of truth. At least you're going out with dignity, well done man. Perhaps I can "turn the wheel" and ask you to mail me ?
Whatever your endeavours, go well.
Peace out. o/
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |

Meow Galore
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 08:38:00 -
[106] - Quote
I too am sorry to see you go but if the game isn't fun for you then there's no point playing. However, it's only been a couple of days since the release. I'd highly recommend that you stick around for a couple of weeks to see if it grows on you.
In any case, good luck for the future. |

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 08:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
another whining shite who feels the need to share his/her whine when the game becomes boring to him/her and he/her decides to unsub and **** off.
to OP hey ! there is a limit on doing one thing in game, doing only one thing in any game becomes boring.
refusal to do other stuff in game will lead to being here on the forums within a year whining like a ***** that everyone else ruined the game when infact it was the whining little ***** who refused to accept that eve is a PVP game and you must work hard to survive. this is what makes eve what it is kids, it is not a single player game where you can log on do shite for a few minutes and then sit talking shite on vent/TS3 for the rest of the night while spinning your ship on station boasting about killing ******* NPC's.
fairwell OP it's is a pity you don't understand that to make an omelette you must crack a few eggs.
PS: an industrialist who sold to buy markets and didn't get that he gave his stuff to a real players anyway, that statement explains a lot. |

Cailais
Rekall Incorporated The Forsaken.
151
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 09:07:00 -
[108] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Cailais wrote:One thing I would like to ask the OP, before he leaves, is this question:
If 'crafters' can produce in complete security what is their inherent value to the game as a whole that couldn't be provided by an NPC delivering a product to the "market" instead?
C.
perhaps CCP should consider having npc's provide everything so there is no need for people to derive enjoyment from the act of making things for other people. If the game was all about combat (which it wasnt when i started playing) then your question is valid. The fact that immense processes for BP's , production, resource gathering all tell me that CCP intended for this sphere to be part of the enjoyment of the game. In most worlds, crafters are admired for putting their skills into their craft at the expense of being adventurers. let the adventurers keep them safe and fight as they wish amongst themselves. We choose where to spend our skill points. Our inherent value is providing things to others in a timely fashion often in exchange for other things we need to do our work. I rather liked that aspect of the game.
I cant see why anyone would 'admire' some poor bloke pick axing away at a rock to then press a few buttons to make a sword or whatever.
I would (and do) admire those who do manufacturing and resource extraction in an environment where there is a risk of failure. Separating EVE into 2 distinct spheres of invulnerable PVE and vulnerable PVP then you may as well make two separate games - the true value of resource collection, manufacture and trade is that it is a competitive process with inherent risk.
C. |

Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
436
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 09:15:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ol Gregg wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Ol Gregg wrote:Actually, the OP was making an acute point about everything wrong with EVE. No, he wasn't. He was whining his profit margins are lower because of a change introduced that he doesn't understand, that will actually balance out, possibly in his favour if a lot of other idiots quit doing PI this week, too. The "OMG ITS ALL BLOBS!!" retort is just a weak, apologetic excuse for not even trying. Well done, anonymous forum alt #61223, for being too risk averse to even try. A Sudden Buggery pilot that defends blobs. Imagine that. How rich. Yeh, our 4 man fleets really blot out the (now brighter!) suns
 - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |

Shardivh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 09:26:00 -
[110] - Quote
Sorry for making your boring, monotonous activites a little bit lively and exciting.
Wait, no.
Go away. |

Bad Messenger
draketrain
31
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 09:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
Usually trying to PVE in PVP server is bad idea, if you want to just PVE join PVE server. |

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 10:15:00 -
[112] - Quote
leavwiz wrote: I will not bother to visit my PI sites again as launch taxes now exceed the market value of the goods from my humble , low efficiency high sec planets.
Sorry, this just doesn't happen in EVE.
If you look at the market sell prices and then see that the way those goods are produced takes more ISK than what the end product is being sold for (ten times over, if the "taxes exceed market value" is true), you could then multiple your ISK reserves by buying every single unit off the market that is being sold at a loss, holding them for a few days and then selling them again.
Market prices follow gameplay changes with a lag. If you are smart and capable of doing math, you can predict upcoming market prices and absolutely bathe in ISK as the change happens.
This patch has been simply epic because so many people keep selling stuff "at the market price" without ever checking what the cost for the product is, allowing anyone with a spreadsheet software (thank you google docs for a free one) to make so much ISK that it is just ridiculous.
Why are you not doing the same if you understand that the "market price" is too low?
Also if you are crying that others will be doing PI at 0% tax, that is irrelevant. The vast majority of PI is done in highsec. The vast majority of your competition is paying the same tax. The prices will be set at this level as there is nowhere near enough supply at "0% tax" price level. Yes, those who can do PI under lower tax regime (by investing in personal POCO in non-highsec) will profit more, but that doesn't change the fact that your (highsec) profit level is what sets the price. Period. You make money. POCO owner makes bit more money. POS runner/T2 builder pays the extra money to you and the module/ship buyer pays the extra money to the POS runner/T2 builder. ISK goes around, nobody sells at a loss and nobody has to quit because of "unprofitable market prices".
Edit: FREE TIP FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN DOING PI:
The POCO/Tax change will greatly increase the market price of PI goods. All of them. If you currently have any stock, selling them below cost is silly as the "market price" will rapidly readjust. Once the new equilibrium is found, you will be making exact same ISKies as before. Potentially more, as bunch of math-deficient crybabies give up on PI, cutting down supply while the demand is not going anywhere. If anything, this is great news for PI as it allows PI producers to squeeze more ISK out of T2 producers, POS runners and Starbase equipment builders.
TAXES ON PRODUCTION ARE IRRELEVANT - YOU JUST HAVE TO SHIFT THE TAXES TO THE BUYER OF YOUR PRODUCT
In the end, the purchaser of a module or a ship is then one who pays the tax and at that point it is a fraction of the final sell price of the module/ship so it becomes irrelevant. |

Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
436
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 10:38:00 -
[113] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Edit: FREE TIP FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN DOING PI:
The POCO/Tax change will greatly increase the market price of PI goods. All of them. If you currently have any stock, selling them below cost is silly as the "market price" will rapidly readjust. Once the new equilibrium is found, you will be making exact same ISKies as before. Potentially more, as bunch of math-deficient crybabies give up on PI, cutting down supply while the demand is not going anywhere. If anything, this is great news for PI as it allows PI producers to squeeze more ISK out of T2 producers, POS runners and Starbase equipment builders. SHHHHHHH!!!
Stop telling them. I'm filling loads of buy orders at "current market prices"  - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |

Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
436
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 10:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
n.b. @OP:
Do you feel suitably stupid yet? You realize you dedicated your gameplay to "industry" but the "PVPers" have pwned you at your own game? - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |

Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
405
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 10:41:00 -
[115] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:As the last remaining player in my once fun and thriving corp, I too will be moving on to an mmo where production and harvesting are operational spheres that dont require subjecting yourself to gank happy pvp'ers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvFbcK6Pa2M
Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |

Ocih
Space Mermaids
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 10:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:Serial Chi wrote:what game are you going to btw? i had avoided naming other mmo's in my post, but in response to your question, I play vanguard (all my primary characters are crafters and diplos) It is a game for mature players that dont expect to make max level in a matter of weeks. great community as well.
I've heard good things about Vanguard but I 've also heard that it was coded bad and minimum requirements are through the roof. While I can't provide empathy from a PI point of view I can respect how your niche in a niche game of niche ships got nerfed to extinction and you now feel obselete. Have fun in Vanguard.
|

Halcyon Ingenium
Warm Holes
37
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 11:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
I love how the term "risk averse" has become a pejorative, as if there was ever a businessman worth his pound of flesh that wasn't risk averse. Or combat pilot for that matter. Really, when people use "risk averse" in this way, all they are really saying is, "I'm a dumbass with no ability to judge consequences, I can be baited into any fight, bilked of all my money, and taken for everything I have; I have no ability to evaluate risk, and I'm also too stupid to realize this is a bad thing." Pretty funny. People say things like: "Oh, you make so much money. What do you need any more for?" Well, actually, *****, I never asked for your opinion. I'll let you know when I have enough money. -Gene Simmons |

Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
60
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 11:16:00 -
[118] - Quote
Yep damn those risk advers carebears i hate them, now im going to fly my drake/Drameil/insert ship here and shoot at industrials with five of my corp mates or hunt shoot three month old characters in tech 1 ships. Damn those risk adverse carebears, im going to suicide gank an unarmed miner in a cheap ship where i cant be podded. Damn those risk adverse carebears and all thier isk i cant make any money on anything other than my incursion alt. I hate all these small risk adverse carebear corps, if someone wants to join my 100 man wardecing corp i demand thier limited api. Damn them and their level 4 mission running that lines my pockets as i ninja them. Gods i hate them becasue of inflation and i have to pay my money to play a awsome game with my main, my scam alt, my suicide gank alt, my capital alt and my spy alt. Damn all carebeares to heck, oh theres a carebear with tears lets mock them as this make me feel like a grown up. I cant pvp that small corp with my 100 man corp casue they dropped alliance, damn them for being risk adverse!
You do realise that all of this is tears don't you, the concept tha people who are risk adverse is stupid. I might add, how risk adverse is a gate camp?
And befor you get all sniffy and tell me you have elite skillzz and stuff i engage in at least one of the above activities and am just as guilty, i'm just not a hypocryte.
OP, can i have you stuff?  |

Mnengli Noiliffe
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 11:46:00 -
[119] - Quote
i have not even tried pi and am doing great being industrialist.
i knew it's a trap at the moment PI was introduced :) |

Ai Shun
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.02 12:01:00 -
[120] - Quote
leavwiz wrote:EVE is no longer fun for casual players that choose to remain in high sec.
That is a very bold statement. Why can't you simply say it is no longer fun for you? I don't want to be dragged into your "my favourite MMO dumped me so it's a ****" meme, thank you.
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