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War Kitten Panda McLegion 302	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:32:00 - [1] - Quote Lifelongnoob wrote: i too think eve online has become too dependant on suicide ganking... its a silly game mechanic really. no ship should die to a single volley imo. Pvp these days is over too quickly. lock, fire one volley at target, watch it explode, lock another target & repeat. there is no really epic dogfights anymore. i think ALL ships (both indy and pvp) should have a major hp buff so that fights actually last more than one or two volleys No epic dogfights? Get out of highsec and go fighting and learn how its done. Highsec combat is mostly highly competent people that know what they're doing, usually up against people that still think cap-stable steady repair is a suitable tank for any pvp ship. This includes the gankers. They know what they're doing and they've planned for it. The targets are oblivious and haven't planned for anything other than their next destination. The game isn't "dependant" on suicide ganking - it's just very easy money. And it isn't CCP's fault. The tools are there to be safe - people just don't learn to use them. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 616	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:33:00 - [2] - Quote Xtover wrote: mkint wrote: OP does make a point. This patch is yet another patch conveying the message: "join a RMT alliance or get out." Buffs to RMTers, nerfs to everyone else. Any subs gained from this patch will be temporary. People don't quit over minor quibbling annoyances. People quit because they realize there is no future for them in the game. If the game has no future for the players, the game itself has no future. I've been with 2 alliances accused of RMTing, about to enter a 3rd. Never seen any proof of botting, other than specific corps or independent people. They are out there, but on an alliance scale? Nope. Denial. The first sign of proof. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 616	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:36:00 - [3] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Speaking of PI. I can see a lot of people not bothering, particularly in worm holes as the PI stations will be used as griefing tools to try and lure people out of their POS. No, that won't work... even if they take a PCO to reinforced, they'll still have to leave through their exit hole if they want to get back to where they came from before hand. If they stay, meh... more wasted isk, put up another when they leave. Unless, of course, the residents actually have the forces to evict the invaders, then it may be fun... but there's better ways to initiate combat in wormholes than shooting at one of these piece of crap structures. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Astrid Stjerna Teraa Matar 117	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:38:00 - [4] - Quote leavwiz wrote: in other words, only low sec should have higher tier missions than lvl 4 because somehow high sec doesnt deserve more challenging content. Well.... Yeah, that's pretty much it. To paraphrase a pen-and-paper RPG that I once played: A stroll down main street doesn't entitle the players to a +9 Demon-Slaying Sword of Eternity's Light. You have to venture into the Caves of Ogg and defeat the dragon first. There are plenty of easy, quick and profitable missions in highsec (I can easily clear a million in a couple of hours by doing work for the agents), but the trade-off is that you're not going to get really 'good' stuff by staying huddled up safe in highsec.
Khai'ne True Grit. 2	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:43:00 - [5] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: leavwiz wrote: in other words, only low sec should have higher tier missions than lvl 4 because somehow high sec doesnt deserve more challenging content. Well.... Yeah, that's pretty much it. To paraphrase a pen-and-paper RPG that I once played: A stroll down main street doesn't entitle the players to a +9 Demon-Slaying Sword of Eternity's Light. You have to venture into the Caves of Ogg and defeat the dragon first. There are plenty of easy, quick and profitable missions in highsec (I can easily clear a million in a couple of hours by doing work for the agents), but the trade-off is that you're not going to get really 'good' stuff by staying huddled up safe in highsec. You're misreading him. He's not asking for better rewards, he's asking for it to be more fun.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation RONA Directorate 300	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:43:00 - [6] - Quote Sweet less competition on the pi market. If you think the taxes are more than the stuff you are produce, they you are making the wrong stuff. As an avid producer all it did was cut my profits by 7% which isnt much.
Pesky LaRue Mercatoris Etherium Cartel 77	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:46:00 - [7] - Quote just to make sure I understand - the OP's OP says he is bored and quitting due to recent changes to the game but it really sounds like he wants all areas/aspects of the game open to all players in all areas? So, he wants L5's (for example) without having to go into low-sec to get them? did I miss anything?
Herrington Vance Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:50:00 - [8] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Speaking of PI. I can see a lot of people not bothering, particularly in worm holes as the PI stations will be used as griefing tools to try and lure people out of their POS. No, that won't work... even if they take a PCO to reinforced, they'll still have to leave through their exit hole if they want to get back to where they came from before hand. If they stay, meh... more wasted isk, put up another when they leave. Unless, of course, the residents actually have the forces to evict the invaders, then it may be fun... but there's better ways to initiate combat in wormholes than shooting at one of these piece of crap structures. I don't know about how annoying it might be to ref a pco in w-space, but the fact that there is now another point of contention for fights to occur is a good thing. There might be "better," things to shoot at, but if one side is reluctant to shoot at all: this ought to provide some incentive.
Hyacinthous Sibyl Cadre 9	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:57:00 - [9] - Quote Hershman wrote: If you cannot adapt, then you die. This thread is the 'GAME OVER' screen of Eve. If the foundation to adapt isn't within the fundamentals of the game then Everyone dies regardless. Oh wait, that's all eve is about - dying. Enjoy wasting your lives never accomplishing anything while you dedicate all of your days and nights to this lackluster imitation of a space game that doesn't even feature zero-g vacuum simulation, manual controls, or more hardcore elements mostly found in scifi. The complaint isn't saying he can't adapt, he is saying that there is no reason to because there is no potential reward for adapting. In other words, players are losing motivation to play because of corruption and the rigged/manipulated market ruining the game. Hell I logged on the 29th just to get the free implant (pathetic but who cares, can't even use it - "slot is filled" with better implant) and decided to grab some skillbooks but had to go 20 jumps just to get to an old school system that wasn't completely borked on the market. People buying the skill books and re-selling them twice as much, those people can f themselves and die irl. Thanks. Anyway, OP is right regardless of what all you brown nosers proclaim, the game is dying because CCP can't even reinforce their own game's design and rules. Two examples: People breaking in-game mechanics to avoid consequences = unfair advantage = game broken; Second example: Poker website using bounty system as leaderboards and free advertising = broken and abused ingame mechanic that has been neglected for so many years = broken game. Anyone who wants to be a kickass bounty hunter (say, cowboy bebop style) can't because this game is broken and abused by it's player base : aka : griefers. Eve = Griefers vs Griefers. Anyway, Anyone innocent or just trying to enjoy the game will always get caught in between these idiot griefers who ruin the game to spite other people just to try and fill the giant empty void that is where their soul and consciousness should be. No offense to CCP, I mean they are trying... But this game could be so much better in so many facets if they just cared more about the game instead of the revenue they get. When you care about your game, the money that comes from it is just icing on the cake. I shouldn't have to explain that a well made game = more revenue but products just made for revenue = lackluster and uninspired and usually tank/don't do well/or just crawl along.
Solstice Project Cult of Personality 221	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:59:00 - [10] - Quote leavwiz wrote: High sec players that are soloists or in small corps are not wanted. I ... am a highsec soloist. Well, no. I am a high- and lowsec soloist. For some reason, i have quite some fun doing what i'm doing. That's this and that. Sometimes this, sometimes that, sometimes many things combined. I am able to produce stuff, i know how the market works and i'm quite good at it, i've become a quite fast prober. (even before the buff) I suck at general "let's just go out there and shoot"-PvP, mostly because i don't see a point in that, but i consider myself quite good at my own niche and i'm actually pretty good at picking out specific targets. I don't care about killboards, as they are flawed bigtime. All that said, as a soloist, i always find plenty of people to interact with, else it would be pointless to even play this game. I do not mission, or rather ... rarely ... as playing EvE as a single player game is stupid as hell. It's not the game ... it's you. You're not good enough for EvE, so we all are happy that you leave. Let the doorknob enter your ******* when you leave, i am pretty sure you'll enjoy that. Vagina !
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:02:00 - [11] - Quote Prince Kobol wrote: I would just like call complete and utter bollocks to this statement I am casual and live mainly in high sec (I enjoy the odd foray into low/null) and I enjoy Eve more now then I ever have. The truth of the matter is that you are a complete and total arse who has ultimately failed and is now throwing a tantrum. Now STFU and take your worthless pathetic hide to some other Hello Kitty Game. **** do I hate people who think they are speaking on behalf of everybody Quoting for truth. I hate it when people say stuff like "omg CCP hates highsec players and wants them to move to lowsec/quit!". I'm still in highsec, still having fun, in fact I just resubbed for 3 months with real money(!!). So don't take your own personal opinion of the game and force it onto everyone else. And as Tippia rightly pointed out, this is a new and exciting development in the industrial sphere. POCOs, new battlecruisers and new tech 2 modules to build. The tax changes to PI products which cause massive market fluctuations and allow for some sweet speculative trading profits. But instead of taking advantage of all this, the OP is upset that its disrupting his sedate playstyle and has decided to quit. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that he's just bored of the game. That's cool, happens to loads of people. Just quietly take a break and go play something else. But please don't throw up a whine post on the forums blaming CCP for actually changing stuff, and claiming every single highsec dweller feels the same way you do.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 616	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:05:00 - [12] - Quote Herrington Vance wrote: Ingvar Angst wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Speaking of PI. I can see a lot of people not bothering, particularly in worm holes as the PI stations will be used as griefing tools to try and lure people out of their POS. No, that won't work... even if they take a PCO to reinforced, they'll still have to leave through their exit hole if they want to get back to where they came from before hand. If they stay, meh... more wasted isk, put up another when they leave. Unless, of course, the residents actually have the forces to evict the invaders, then it may be fun... but there's better ways to initiate combat in wormholes than shooting at one of these piece of crap structures. I don't know about how annoying it might be to ref a pco in w-space, but the fact that there is now another point of contention for fights to occur is a good thing. There might be "better," things to shoot at, but if one side is reluctant to shoot at all: this ought to provide some incentive. Why? What's the incentive? Transfer your goods to the planet remotely, let the invaders reinforce it... they'll likely leave before it comes out, then it's a rep and business as usual. Non-combat oriented corps in holes will function exactly as they do now, except they'll have to delete annoying emails that a PCO is being shot at. Combat oriented corps don't need the added incentive as it is. They see someone on dscan and they're at the hole salivating all the way. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Solstice Project Cult of Personality 221	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:06:00 - [13] - Quote Hyacinthous wrote: Anyone who wants to be a kickass bounty hunter (say, cowboy bebop style) can't because this game is broken and abused by it's player base : aka : griefers. Bullshit. My list of pods gets longer and longer and altough i only claimed 80 Million ISK so far, it's still one hell of a fun. The reason why "EvE is dying" is because more and more people who start to play are simply spoiled and not intelligent enough, demand easy satisfaction and don't want to use their brains. I admit wholeheartedly that the situation for people like me could be better, absolutely, but to say "anyone who wants to be a bountyhunter ... can't" is simply wrong ! I also acknowledge the fact that there are "too many griefers", and CCP should implement a way for people like me to be an effective counter against them. That said ... altough there are flaws in the current system, it's far from broken. Vagina !
Majora Veneris Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:09:00 - [14] - Quote leavwiz wrote: Lady Spank wrote: I like how you dont even explain what the problem is. EVE is no longer fun for casual players that choose to remain in high sec. Incorrect. Since coming back (few months back) I've pretty much been solo as i havent found a corp i really like yet. Regardless, I'm having a ball. Please refrain from making broad statements like that again when you can only speak for yourself, not EVE as a whole. A Good Forum Post Is Like A Skirt.... Long Enough To Cover The Subject Matter, But Short Enough To Keep Things Interesting.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 440	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:09:00 - [15] - Quote let me be the first to say BOO FREEKIN HOO! The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Astrid Stjerna Teraa Matar 117	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:17:00 - [16] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: I admit wholeheartedly that the situation for people like me could be better, absolutely, but to say "anyone who wants to be a bountyhunter ... can't" is simply wrong ! 'Griefers' are really what a bounty hunter is all about, at least in real-life terms. By definition, criminals and bail-jumpers don't play by the rules. Yes, griefers make it harder to be a bounty hunter in EVE (I'm certainly not disputing that), but when you're hunting a wanted man, he's not just going to stand out on the sidewalk with a big red flag yelling 'arrest me, I'm over here!'. You can take up a career as a bounty hunter, but you're going to have to be creative to get the job done.
Urgg Boolean Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:19:00 - [17] - Quote Ana Vyr wrote: Cailais wrote: One thing I would like to ask the OP, before he leaves, is this question: If 'crafters' can produce in complete security what is their inherent value to the game as a whole that couldn't be provided by an NPC delivering a product to the "market" instead? C. None, in your example, but you show me where you can produce in complete security. Despite working primarily in high sec, we are still subject to market PvP, and for me at least, mining insecurity issues, and wardecs too. The market will balance back out, certainly, but lowsec PI is now pretty much out of reach for folks like me, and it was a fun thing to do before Crucible because it was risky. Now, it's a case of either paying pirates taxes, or protecting your own POCO's, and for me anyways, neither of those options is going to fly. I agree. In my small corp, 3 of us have set up PI installations across 15 planets in 0.3 and 0.2 systems next door to each other. We use Transport ships for CO interactions. We use cloaky T1 haulers, with scouts of course, to actually haul the goods on weekly runs. The destruction of NPC COs in those systems remains to be seen, but I think it's a only a matter of time before all the seriously bored Roaming squads take out all the NPC COs just for fun and their brand of lovable mischief. What then? The little guys like us are confronted by, not just putting up one POCO, but an array of POCOs for all the planets we farm. Protecting them is not feasible for small corps like mine. Paying pirate taxes is aiding and abetting the enemy. The price adjustments are irrelevant. The problem I see is the feasibility of a business model that includes expensive and destructible POCOs that the small fry cannot defend. Where do we go with a model like that ? Where? Out of the PI business. If time proves me wrong, I'll gladly eat my words and rejoin the PI business. As it is now, it seems about as smart as building a dynamite factory on top of an earthquake fault. *fixed system security error --> .3 and .2 , not .3 and .4
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront 170	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:19:00 - [18] - Quote If something doesn't put money into the fat-ass null monkeys pockets or benefits them in some other way it will never happen. In that regard, CCP has been pretty consistent for several years now .. the one change that looked like they actually cared for Eve as a whole was partially rolled back at the first opportunity they got (sanctum nerf). Our (everyone not a null monkey) only hope is to come with some genius idea for null that keeps them content/busy so CCP can get to improving the rest of the game without having to dodge whine-fests and threadnaughts.
Tribalic One V i L e 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:24:00 - [19] - Quote Xtover wrote: oh, by the way- taking your stuff to Jita and selling at the first buy order made another industrialist very happy. Maybe even a "solo" person who prior to that was just as dispondent. Sometimes it takes a few to fall to feed the masses. Didn't you know that Care Bears are cannibalistic?
Mistress Motion Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:27:00 - [20] - Quote I really hope some people would stop using term "PvP" like it means only going guns blazing until someone dies. Because usually those same people think that there are NPC's that seed the market full of ships and stuff.
Herrington Vance Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:33:00 - [21] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Why? What's the incentive? Transfer your goods to the planet remotely, let the invaders reinforce it... they'll likely leave before it comes out, then it's a rep and business as usual. Non-combat oriented corps in holes will function exactly as they do now, except they'll have to delete annoying emails that a PCO is being shot at. Combat oriented corps don't need the added incentive as it is. They see someone on dscan and they're at the hole salivating all the way. Obviously the incentive is, if the attacks so desire they'll ref and return to finish the job. I'm not saying PCOs are going to be value targets and generate tons of pvp, but if it comes down to picking a fight with a certain corp, there are now more options than simply trying to hit their dickstar (far more of a chore than a pco) or try and catch them individually. Combat oriented corps who fight one another anyway don't need any encouragement, right. But, corps that would rather simply turtle in their POS and ignore any intruders will now have a reason other than total-eviction to get out and fight for something of value. Clearly, this isn't supposed to be a flash-point for immense pvp activity, but the idea that it's not going to generate fights at all is laughable.
leavwiz Firestorm Tactical Research and Development 31	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:51:00 - [22] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: leavwiz wrote: in other words, only low sec should have higher tier missions than lvl 4 because somehow high sec doesnt deserve more challenging content. Well.... Yeah, that's pretty much it. To paraphrase a pen-and-paper RPG that I once played: A stroll down main street doesn't entitle the players to a +9 Demon-Slaying Sword of Eternity's Light. You have to venture into the Caves of Ogg and defeat the dragon first. There are plenty of easy, quick and profitable missions in highsec (I can easily clear a million in a couple of hours by doing work for the agents), but the trade-off is that you're not going to get really 'good' stuff by staying huddled up safe in highsec. its not about the stuff, its about the fun
Mara Villoso Big Box 37	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:56:00 - [23] - Quote I agree with the general sentiment that EVE has little to offer the casual/solo player. Though, I'm not quitting. As long as EVE is a sandbox, CCP is totally and utterly reliant on its player base to provide its real content. When the content provided is essentially a neverending series of annoyances, the game itself becomes annoying and unrewarding. Each and every casual/solo player driven off by EVE's unnecessarily complex learning curve and annoyances further reduces that content. As long as the player base is small, the more reliant CCP is on each and every player logging in, not for subscription numbers, but to provide content. If what you want is nonstop, nonconsensual PvP, why don't you just reduce EVE to 2 systems, cut out all of the trading/industrial/mining nonsense, and begin an endless battle royale. If you're going to try and entice players to come in and provide content that is essentially an NPC function in most games, CCP would do well to provide an environment conducive to their play style.
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman Loud On The Forums Silent In Game 26	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:01:00 - [24] - Quote leavwiz wrote: its not about the stuff, its about the fun No, after reading your previous posts, it looks like it's about making Isk and playing for free. I'm gald CCP did this and buffed losec and null.
Dbars Grinding Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:04:00 - [25] - Quote This one time i made a rifter. The end.
Lharanai Empyrean Guard 41	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:10:00 - [26] - Quote mixed feelings here, on one side, CRUCIBLE did not give something new to play for casual or low SP players as we are always short on ISKIES, but on the other side and this is new to me personally, I get the impression that casual players can live in low, we are just not making as much ISK as in High Sec there. But ask yourself seriously is EVE only about making ISK? The reason for quitting is because you are making less ISK? The progress of giving low sec and potentially null sec a try brought back the excitement....for me at least. Maybe I will fail but at least I tried....its a game and don't take everything so serious. Touch my ** and I will your with an rusty and into your , and then I will your until you ******************
Martyr Theos The NecroMonger Faith 26	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:12:00 - [27] - Quote Pavel Bidermann wrote: This isn't a dev issue. The player base has gotten quite bored so this is what hey do. If you wnat to point the finger at any one group, point it at Alliance leaders who would rather have bots running and hoard up Alliance isk off of moon goo instead of play the game to it's potential. This is what they're told is "fun" even though running a mission would be more challenging. The effects of good propaganda on the weak minded are evident. THIS IS A CCP DEVELOPER GAME ISSUE The basic game design is so out ot whack as to actually drive potential subscribers away from Eve. This is the essence of why Eve is done. Finito. Finished. Kaput. Eve is done. Stick a Fork in it. My account and others I know are just spending down isk on PLEX because we have it. If it we didn't, we would already be gone. And before the usual tirade, let me assure you that Eve is SUPPOSED to be all about shooting things, but when it requires a phu-kink committee of 500 people to do it, WHO GIVES A SHHHT. The funny part will come when only the Fanbois are left to shoot each other and there aren't enough of them left to form a committee.
Martyr Theos The NecroMonger Faith 26	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:15:00 - [28] - Quote Tippia wrote: You know, if you are/were going to play the industry/market game, then maybe you should have taken the time to learn how supply, demand, and price-setting worksGÇª Don't mind Tippia, reading comprehension is beyond his I.Q.
Martyr Theos The NecroMonger Faith 26	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:18:00 - [29] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: I like how you dont even explain what the problem is. I like how your such a Fanbois Idiot that you couldn't comprehend the problem if he outlined it in black ink on white paper for you.
Martyr Theos The NecroMonger Faith 26	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:23:00 - [30] - Quote RaTTuS wrote: what part of MMO are you not getting ? The part of MMO that recognizes that just because there are massive numbers of players in a game, nothing compels or dictates that they should necessarily cooperate in any way, shape, or form, IF it is truly a "sandbox". On the other hand, if it is constrained by stupid game mechanics that require a committee of 500 players in order for one player to fart... well then I guess that is your style of game.

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