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MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.05 08:26:00 - [1] Who actualy flys these and flys these well? I've been flying one for the last 3 days with many different setups, tanking, ganking, nosing etc and I just cannot find a role that it suits. Always not enough pg, fitting RCUs just isn't natural so I don't even go there as it pretty much gimps any phoon setup. So... does anyone have any really good fitting roles and/or setups for the phoon sinces its so called boost? -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:00:00 - [2] Keep trying - I believe it works nice
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:05:00 - [3] fittting a phoon is still horrible, but at least you can use it as a poor dominix From Dusk till Dawn
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:06:00 - [4] it's a great tank, it can do the close range AC/cruise missile/nos uber speed gank thing, and i suppose you could try to snipe with it with a bunch of 1400's and torps, but i suppose you would get into fitting limits fast. imho the have become great ships, the 8 high slots giving a nice set of options and the 175m^3 drone space is only topped by the domi.. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please
Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:13:00 - [5] is still sub par to other bs, badly needs another 1k grid to brign it in line with other bs
Fogy Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 09:40:00 - [6] yeah, its a pain to fitt.. needs morre Gridd, and maby a boost to the armor hp.. i wouldnt mind if they swapped the shield hp's and the armor hp's around tbh.. But it BADLY needs more gridd!! cheers! Fogy "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity" New Direction New Area New Victims
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:00:00 - [7] Everyone else has already said it....great, versatile ship in concept, but not very variable in what it can do because it's lack of grid screws it. As was pointed out multiple times before the bonus change, it still needs somewhere between 1k-2k base grid to be able to fit most reasonable setups. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:06:00 - [8] I love my Phoon. It can dish out very very good damnage - almost as good as my T2 blastertron (My minnie skills are not close to my gallente skills) I cam quite satisfied with it - If I could get ONE more thing I would ask for a nother low-slot. Once you realize that you do not NEED the top-tier guns on every ship, fittings become a whole lot easier. _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:15:00 - [9] The typhoon never sucked, it used to be unique ship, primarily designed for use against lesser targets outside of it's class as opposed to other battleships which are designed primarily for inter-battleship warfare. I loved it very much. I still love it despite the changes, it's a powerful ship. Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Testy Mctest Everyone else has already said it....great, versatile ship in concept, but not very variable in what it can do because it's lack of grid screws it. As was pointed out multiple times before the bonus change, it still needs somewhere between 1k-2k base grid to be able to fit most reasonable setups. i do fine in it! adding 1-2K would make it overpowered imo just for info, you can get 4 crusie t2, 4 heavy nosf, 20km, med cap inj with 800s, painter, tracking desrupter. large t2 rep, medium t2 rep, 3x t2 hard and dcu and energized t2 thats about same dps as domi [more infact] with ability to mix dmg types [domi can really only do exp or thermal], more nosf than a domi, same tank, good mids its a fine ship, very skill intensive though compaired to most since u need great drone skills [4+mil] and decent missile skills [3+mil]. although id like to see the drone bay increased to 250M^3 -- Imperial College London FTW --
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Benco97 The typhoon never sucked, it used to be unique ship, primarily designed for use against lesser targets outside of it's class as opposed to other battleships which are designed primarily for inter-battleship warfare. I loved it very much. I still love it despite the changes, it's a powerful ship. That's its only role really. You don't have to fit the top tier guns but your dps is going to be crap. Yeah it tanks like nuts, but it's pretty useless when you don't have the dps to kill anything. It needs 1200+ grid imo. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:19:00 - [12] I would like new graphics for the ship... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim McGregor I would like new graphics for the ship... I'm sure it's going to be sexy in Kali :) -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Kaiu Hinkledolph and K Associates The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:36:00 - [14] As a logistics with NOS it is nice support boat imo ____________________ MOGarmy
Zhirong Lee State War Academy	Posted - 2006.10.05 10:45:00 - [15] It's a very underated, but very capable BS which requires a lot of skill points/player skills to fly it really well. Watch the MC videos of Seleene flying a phoon. Very cool :)
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.05 11:06:00 - [16] very soon I can fly the phoon with tech2 AC und tech2 Torps, will give it a try since the close range tempest is quite uselss nowadays. But I guess Im better of flying a raven anyway From Dusk till Dawn
Trefnis Solidline Enterprise	Posted - 2006.10.05 12:05:00 - [17] I wont fly in phoon anytime soon as Sieges T2 are to expensive for me now (its cheaper to fit tempy than phoon) so ill share my fit 4x dual 425mm T2, 4x Sieges T2 disruptor, web, painter, jammer (thou ill use ECCM next time) LAR T2, 3x EAN T2, 3x 1600 Tungsten 5x Berk T2, 5x Valk T2 (or wariors, dont remember) i have no idea what dps i have but i know i killed domi with dual rep tank and plates very fast. omi tanks are popular lately so explo is nice dmg, and ac with barrage will hit above 20km so no need for speed mod if u see blaster mega just use hail and jav torps, he will come to u anyway :)
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.05 12:08:00 - [18] Wonderful ship, crappy grid! Not asking to be able to fit a full rack of best weapons + dual LAR tank, but even medium grade weapons + average tank are hard to fit! On the bright side, even with PG issues, the typhoon rocks for small gang warfare! ___________________________________________ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:27:00 - [19] fit dual 425mm guns and cruise laucnhers if you are low on grid. I can fit dual650mm guns, three siege launchers, heavy Nos, AB and good tank without problems. even better tank and upgrade to Siege launchers with the 425mm guns. Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:28:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/10/2006 13:28:42 Can this ship kill t2 Ravens? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:33:00 - [21] omg nanophoooooon! Ore Mongers is recruiting
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:34:00 - [22] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/10/2006 13:34:44 --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/10/2006 13:28:42 Can this ship kill t2 Ravens? of course not From Dusk till Dawn
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Nafri But I guess Im better of flying a raven anyway That comment applies pretty much regardless of what you're flying, though :P Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:02:00 - [25] 1 more turret, 1 more launcher, 2k more grid, thx
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:45:00 - [26] Even 500 pg more would be nice so fitting min size weapons and a dual rep tank is possible without using cruiser sized mods. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:43:00 - [27] Its a subpar BS. The changes only meant that you had to train another month to be sub-par in it. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Liam Fremen	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:49:00 - [28] Phoon is a very funny pvp ship with a very fast fitting... i mean 5+ nanofiber. My actual fitting for pvp is the following: 4x Cruise launcher (limo's or similar named, low cost one) 4x Knave heavy nosferatu (about 500-600k isk each) 1x 100mn quad lif fueled (about 600k) 1x 20km scrambler 1x Target Painter / Conjunctive ECCM Ladar (about 500k) 1x Heavy electrochemical cap booster (about 300k) 7x Nanofiber t1 This make the ship going about 3km/s, amazing agility, good damage output vs cruiser and bs's, is a little different from the normal fitting with torps, i prefer this one with cruise. The good thing of this ship is that you realy have the control of the distance, and this is amazing... your drone helps you very much and when you get scrambled by a inty, just activate 4 nosferatu on it and warp away :) (made it about 10 times at least) Is a funny ship, for a low expense you get a fun ship to fly, nothing else :) fun and sometime deadly but don't bealive you will be able to kill everything, you just will be able to run away from "nearly" everything :)
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:54:00 - [29] This is the setup I have been thinking about recently. I can use the T2 Torps and Ogres, just waiting on the ACs. In the meantime I think the nanophoon will be fun. 4 siege II 4 Dual 425mm II Cap Inj 100 MWD 2x whatever Large Rep Med Rep T2 2 x EAN II 1 x DC 1 x RCU II 1 x ? (Nano? DMod? Stabbie?) Has 966 grid left and 96 CPU. Should have decent damage output, although not fantastic. I would love to know what speed you can attain in a phoon with a MWD and no nanos as I haven't tried it out yet. It just looks fun to me. It won't beat a Raven, but as Testy said not much else will anyway. It still gets 750 DPS or so with max skills under 10km, and about 700 DPS at 20km or below, which isn't bad. Really curious about the speed thing with the MWD though. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Ardan Minmatar The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:03:00 - [30] Strange... For a Tier 1 BS it is tied for the highest Power Grid at 12500. Has Decent CPU. 600, Decent armor and Shield with a pretty good slot layout. 8-4-7. What's wrong with it? "Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." Colligula
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:07:00 - [31] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/10/2006 20:07:52 Originally by: Ardan Strange... For a Tier 1 BS it is tied for the highest Power Grid at 12500. Has Decent CPU. 600, Decent armor and Shield with a pretty good slot layout. 8-4-7. What's wrong with it? You have to compare the powergrid and cpu with the weapons and the tank its supposed to fit. I dont fly the ship, but appearently it has problems fitting large guns and launchers at the same time if you want a tank. Edit: Nyxus setup looks OK to me though... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:11:00 - [32] The phoon would be a good ship with some more grid and swapped armor/shield HP. Also, it would help matters if it got the same bonus as the Naglfar (5% RoF to Missles and 7.5% RoF to Projectiles).
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:36:00 - [33] The phoon is very versatile an din the hands of a good pilot it can beat many battleships out there. Btw a Phoon can in fact beat a raven, simply fit 4 nos 4 torps and ur tank will do the rest. This ship can also pull off the nano set ups quite amazingly as well and actually take down other battleships w that set up. It may be hard to set up but as u all know this ship is the most skill demanding bs in the game so u simpply need to get those skills up. It rly comes down to the pilot, and im sure there are many phoon pilots that are great while some r totaly incompetent.
Darax Thulain Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.06 06:55:00 - [34] Yer, I love me phoon now. Dont you dare change it.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.06 07:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Ardan Strange... For a Tier 1 BS it is tied for the highest Power Grid at 12500. Has Decent CPU. 600, Decent armor and Shield with a pretty good slot layout. 8-4-7. What's wrong with it? Cause it has to fit 8 highslots and is an armor tanker, like the geddon, but the geddon has 16500 PG. Also it slots are inferor to the Dominix 6/5/7, which are more versatile than the phoons . From Dusk till Dawn
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.06 08:34:00 - [36] The phoon is "fine",it received some love but tux forgot to switch the shield amount for the armor,decrease the amount of minerals to actually build one and give it a bit more power grid ,but hey it is better then the old phoon .
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.06 08:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Pesadel0 The phoon is "fine",it received some love but tux forgot to switch the shield amount for the armor,decrease the amount of minerals to actually build one and give it a bit more power grid ,but hey it is better then the old phoon . Yes, these were the final changes we proposed a while back, but of course they were ignored :P The reason the phoon needs more grid is because of it's slot layout. If it fits nos+siege, or even large size ACs + siege, it struggles to fit a decent armour tank. If it fits a decent armour tank, it struggles to fit it's highs. And you can pretty much forget about fitting artillery on it at all in any realistically usable setup. It's still broken, just a bit less so then it was before. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 08:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Testy Mctest Yes, these were the final changes we proposed a while back, but of course they were ignored :P The reason the phoon needs more grid is because of it's slot layout. If it fits nos+siege, or even large size ACs + siege, it struggles to fit a decent armour tank. If it fits a decent armour tank, it struggles to fit it's highs. And you can pretty much forget about fitting artillery on it at all in any realistically usable setup. It's still broken, just a bit less so then it was before. You fail to see that it is a tier1 BS and that Heavy NOS actually have higher fitting reqs than the biggest tier guns of most races battleshipclass guns. Siegelaunchers are also very demanding on fitting reqs. You do not see many Armageddons with full TACHYON BEAM LASER outfits - Dominixes with full NEUTRON BLASTER CANNON or Scorpions with full SIEGE LAUNCHER/ 425MM RAILGUN outfit either. fit lower calibre guns or Cruise Launchers instead of Siege and realize that Heavy NOS have high fitting reqs and think out of the cookie-cutter box _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Sandra Tseng Originally by: Testy Mctest Yes, these were the final changes we proposed a while back, but of course they were ignored :P The reason the phoon needs more grid is because of it's slot layout. If it fits nos+siege, or even large size ACs + siege, it struggles to fit a decent armour tank. If it fits a decent armour tank, it struggles to fit it's highs. And you can pretty much forget about fitting artillery on it at all in any realistically usable setup. It's still broken, just a bit less so then it was before. You fail to see that it is a tier1 BS and that Heavy NOS actually have higher fitting reqs than the biggest tier guns of most races battleshipclass guns. Siegelaunchers are also very demanding on fitting reqs. You do not see many Armageddons with full TACHYON BEAM LASER outfits - Dominixes with full NEUTRON BLASTER CANNON or Scorpions with full SIEGE LAUNCHER/ 425MM RAILGUN outfit either. fit lower calibre guns or Cruise Launchers instead of Siege and realize that Heavy NOS have high fitting reqs and think out of the cookie-cutter box _ you have a point or do you just telling nonsense? I see lots of tachs on geddons (fleets). And since the phoon is a closerange ship it should be ok to fit long range launchers (cruise) together with closerange guns (autocannons) just to do less damage than the dominix which needs 0PG and 0CPU for its main weapon systems? -.- ohh god From Dusk till Dawn
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 06/10/2006 09:11:14 I think that the domi is slightly overpowered and should notbe compared as a "standard tier 1 BS template" I know I am not alone on this. As I said before. I have no problem fitting my Typhoon. I can fit lowest tier AC's and Siege-launchers or higher tier AC's and cruise launchers. Not every ship is a Dominix and thank kerensky for that... _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Nafri you have a point or do you just telling nonsense? I see lots of tachs on geddons (fleets). Mann, mann, mann Nafri... Ever checked the PG that is left over on a geddon after fitting Tachyons? No way you can fit any form of decent tank on it. (And rightfully so.) Wonder who is 'telling' the nonsense here. Forsch Defender of the empire More love for side factions!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:28:00 - [42] I dont fly armageddons, but I remember someone saying that you can fit a full rack of tachyons AND a tank if you throw 2 RCU II on it...dont kill me if it isnt true, its just something I know I saw in these forums. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Trefnis Solidline Enterprise	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:57:00 - [43] Yes and try to fit 1400mm T2 and sieges and tell me its easier than tachs on arma... Its useless fit but if we talk about biggest guns then talk about biggest guns on both ships.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Sandra Tseng You fail to see that it is a tier1 BS and that Heavy NOS actually have higher fitting reqs than the biggest tier guns of most races battleshipclass guns. Siegelaunchers are also very demanding on fitting reqs. You do not see many Armageddons with full TACHYON BEAM LASER outfits - Dominixes with full NEUTRON BLASTER CANNON or Scorpions with full SIEGE LAUNCHER/ 425MM RAILGUN outfit either. If you want to be all high and mighty, omgz look at me I can say 'cookie cutter' to make myself look uber, realise a few things: -Tachs are an abhorration, and are the only BS weapon that is bigger than big, if you will. The real weapon to use for comparison in the case of long ranged guns would be Megabeam IIs. In this case, you should be comparing to a Megapulse II fitted Geddon, as the Phoon in question is fitting ACs and such. -Ships need appropriate fittings to fulfil their intended role. Tier 1 BS roles are very diverse. A Dominix does not need full Neutron Blasters, as it gains it's DPS primarily from drones. A Scorpion would not mount massive weaponry normally, because that isn't it's role. The Geddon is a gank ship, and can mount 7x Megapulse II, plus a Heavy Dim Nos, and still have 1300 grid left over. The Phoon is a close range combat ship, but cannot fit a good tank if it wants to fit reasonable weaponry. Woe betide if you ever want to fit something like a cap injector to a phoon, whereas other ships can simply drop down weapon tiers to do so, and in some cases (eg, domi) dont even need to do that. Quote: fit lower calibre guns or Cruise Launchers instead of Siege and realize that Heavy NOS have high fitting reqs and think out of the cookie-cutter box Saying a ship has no problems because it can fit undersized mods is wrong. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Epislona Minmatar Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:01:00 - [45] my NPC level 4 running setup 4x cruise launchers 1 diminishing nos 2 dual 600mm ac 2 cap recharger II 100mn ab target painter 1 LAR II damage control and then combinations of active and passive hardeners in all instances where i can afford it, i use the "deadspace x-type" versions of the same equiptment... but when i orignally started running level 4's everything on the ship was "best T1-named or T2" and i did just fine... the faction gear is simply "ensuring my victory"... the afterburner is for being able to get close easily to the battleships that hang out at 50km and like to run away. and the painter is to get a little better damage with the cruise missiles on cruisers/frigs/ destroyers Without some serious skilling in your weapons running missions will be really tedious, as you won't have a high damage output (no damage mods) once you are into T2 drones/missiles/guns... everything should move along about as fast as you could hope. as far as PVP goes... i would go with 4 cruise launchers... lot's of NOS,cap injector, scram, ECM, painter, and a dual LAR tank ( i would have to do some fiddiling around to make sure all that fits...perhaps only 3 nos and one of those drone links that extend the range of drones.... now i am rambeling... "You Are Not Special"
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:05:00 - [46] Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 06/10/2006 12:07:18 Did I offend you in some way and if so how? You are talking about roles yet you do not realize that the Phoon is a special ship without any assigned role. It is a jack of all trades, it is how it was supposed to be and it is in its description. Many ships in the game have this issue, that they can not fit full rack of best guns AND what you call "good" tank. Of all the tier 1 BS's the Dominix is an exeption and as I said before, it is slightly overpowered (that is why everyone flies one theese days) Calling dual 425mm Autocannons "undersized mods" is pretty wrong. They are Battleship class guns just as ELECTRON BLASTER CANNONS are. By undersized are you telling mey are cruiser class weapons? I do not want to be "all high and mighty, omgz look at me I can say 'cookie cutter' to make myself look uber", I am just saying that you should: Stop trying to make the Typhoon a dominix or raven or megathron. It has its own slot layout-desing, PG and CPU output, Speed, armor and so on - and if you can not make the best of what you got to work with - then get another ship. Again, sorry if I offended you for implying that you should try to think different. [Edit: Also let us not forget that it has the second biggest dronebay] _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:06:00 - [47] Edited by: welsh wizard on 06/10/2006 12:07:03 edit nm Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:29:00 - [48] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 06/10/2006 12:33:39 Originally by: Sandra Tseng Did I offend you in some way and if so how? No, but the general tone of people who repeat variations of "this ship is fine because I can make it work sometimes" annoys me. Any ship can be made to work when you have superior skillpoints, play ability, or an advantageous situation. If skills, skillpoints, and situation are equal, and ships equivalently equal, you should have a stalemate situation if balance is right. Currently, given equal of the above factors, every other BS in the game will beat a Phoon due to statistical differences. Originally by: Sandra Tseng I do not want to be "all high and mighty, omgz look at me I can say 'cookie cutter' to make myself look uber", I am just saying that you should: Stop trying to make the Typhoon a dominix or raven or megathron. It doesnt need to be any of them, in fact, with it's layout, it never could be. It just needs to use it's own layout effectively, which it doesn't do. Originally by: Sandra Tseng It has its own slot layout-desing, PG and CPU output, Speed, armor and so on - and if you can not make the best of what you got to work with - then get another ship. Both myself and the community at large are perfectly capable of making the best of what we're given. Not only with the Phoon, but with many ships of all races that are considered sub-par. The whole point of balancing is that you shouldn't have to make do just because a ship is poorly designed and/or implemented. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:33:00 - [49] I use 4 dual600mm guns and 4 Cruiselaunchers (sometimes three laucnehrs anda NOS) cap support, AB and Web in mids and full tank in lows add a pretty huge dronebay to that, select the right ammo and tell me this ship is not dangerous enough? It is a skill intensive ship - common knowledge - but when you have those skills it pwns _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Sandra Tseng I use 4 dual600mm guns and 4 Cruiselaunchers (sometimes three laucnehrs anda NOS) cap support, AB and Web in mids and full tank in lows add a pretty huge dronebay to that, select the right ammo and tell me this ship is not dangerous enough? It is a skill intensive ship - common knowledge - but when you have those skills it pwns _ That's the entire point, though. There's very few hislot fits that it can use. With the above setup you can only fit a single large rep II. Every slot you mount a nos or other non-weapon module in worsens this situation. And stepping away from ship roles and keeping with the flavour that all ships should be variable according to your own initiative, try fitting even the 'low' fitting 4x 1200 II and 4x cruise II on a phoon. It ends up unable to even fill it's slots with normal 1 or 2pg mods such as sensor boosters etc. Now imagine trying to fit 1400s. At least a geddon can fit 6 Megabeam IIs without a fitting mod. Of course, you could drop to named items, and it could be argued that the ship shouldn't be able to fit everything maxed out, which I agree with. But the grid on this is SO low that it struggles to even fit average fittings. It's grid is, simply, insanely low. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Loki Amarr Omni-Core Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:46:00 - [51] Edited by: Loki on 06/10/2006 12:48:21 Originally by: Sandra Tseng Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 06/10/2006 12:07:18 Did I offend you in some way and if so how? You are talking about roles yet you do not realize that the Phoon is a special ship without any assigned role. It is a jack of all trades, it is how it was supposed to be and it is in its description. Many ships in the game have this issue, that they can not fit full rack of best guns AND what you call "good" tank. Of all the tier 1 BS's the Dominix is an exeption and as I said before, it is slightly overpowered (that is why everyone flies one theese days) Calling dual 425mm Autocannons "undersized mods" is pretty wrong. They are Battleship class guns just as ELECTRON BLASTER CANNONS are. By undersized are you telling mey are cruiser class weapons? I do not want to be "all high and mighty, omgz look at me I can say 'cookie cutter' to make myself look uber", I am just saying that you should: Stop trying to make the Typhoon a dominix or raven or megathron. It has its own slot layout-desing, PG and CPU output, Speed, armor and so on - and if you can not make the best of what you got to work with - then get another ship. Again, sorry if I offended you for implying that you should try to think different. [Edit: Also let us not forget that it has the second biggest dronebay] _ he means that within a the large autocannon class dual 425s are the smallest tier. just as within within the large pulse laser class mega pulse are the highest tier, and duel heavy are the lowest. if you try and fit 800mm's II and siege launchers II(close range missiles) you end up with a measely 766 grid left over (AWU4). There is absolutely no way you can fit a tank with this, meaning you are automatically forced to lose a lot of damage per second in order to fit a tank or an mwd or a cap injector, let alone all 3. add to the fact that due to the split weapon config any damage mod you fit only effects half your guns, and it means that any setup you fit is automatically gimped to some extent. ok so you need more grid, you drop down to dual 425's and now you have 3800 grid left over \o/ i can actually fit a large armour repairer. 3800 - 2300 = 1500 grid remaining, what can i fit? injector? no Second LAR? no. You begin to see the problem? I'm not saying that you shouldnt have to make sacrifices in order to fit stuff but the fact that even on the lowest tier guns you cant fit 2 lar, lar + injector, and never mind 2 lar + injector is just silly. btw it's worth noting at this point that by going from mega pulse to duel hvy on a geddon frees up 1100 grid, per gun for a total of 7700 grid (or 2 lar, havy injector + mwd). This is why an extra 1 or 2k grid is not really a lot to ask, and would at least allow you to make reasonable trade offs between defence, offence, maneuverability and sustainability rather than having all bar perhaps one auto gimped. and never mind actually trying to squeeze on some long range weaponry Loki
Rawr Cristina Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:58:00 - [52] You have the fastest, lightest BS in game by far you just think its underpowered because you completely ignore that fact and try to make it a tank/gank ship instead. watch this movie and tell me the phoon is underpowered
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:59:00 - [53] Listen man. 800mm ACs are the top tier minmatar closerange guns Try to fit a full rack of NEUTRON BLASTER CANNONS on a MEGATHRON (which should proove my point because it is even a Tier2 BS and Phoon is a tier1) With seven NEUTRON BLASTER CANNONS, Tech two or not, you do not have much grid to fit a good tank. Top tier guns are not generally ment for tier1 BS. It is generally Tank or Gank. When you choose top tier gusn you also chose gank. Another Megathron example: Neutron blasters: gank and very low or no tank at all. Ion Blasters: medium gank, medium tank Electron blasters: low gank, maximum tank _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Norris Neophitus Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:03:00 - [54] Is this a joke thread, the phoon is possibly one of the best ships in eve, You can do anything with this ship if you have the skills. The drones just make it awesome, i mean you can use it as support, you can fit a beast of a tank, its a hell of a mission runner and as for pvp it can have so many different setups no one knows what they will be up against when a phoons shows up. It can snipe too tho i wouldnt recomend that role for it, it can even mine with a good set of drones and miner2's + torps/cruise missiles to keep you safe. Quit complaining and go train, leave my phoons alone. Plus it only costs like 60-70mil damn cheap for what it can do The thing to know about the phoon like most ships is it cant do all the jobs you want it to at once. Phoon = best ship in class Originally by: Wild Rho -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not emo, I just hate my life and no one understands me -----------------------------
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Rawr Cristina You have the fastest, lightest BS in game by far you just think its underpowered because you completely ignore that fact and try to make it a tank/gank ship instead. watch this movie and tell me the phoon is underpowered Ah, I was wondering before an OMGNANOPHOON fanboi would show up. I haven't even clicked the link and I know what it's going to be. Saying that a ship is not broken or in need of a change because you can fit an abhorrent one-trick pony setup on it is, unfortunately, not a valid argument. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:29:00 - [56] Main point for me is the fitting minimum tier BS weapons (Dual 425's and cruise) leaves you with (assuming AWU5) 5948.2pg. So for this minimum damage you want to fit a good tank, typically that consists of: Heavy Cap booster - 1750pg 2x Large Armour reps - 2000 pg each. T2 - 2300pg So can rule T2 reps out straight away. First the above leaves 198.2pg, not enough for plates or even a AB. We comprimised damage for tank and got.... a slow ship. If we fit a AB to try and take advantage of the "minmatar speed" we drop have to drop a rep, so we have average damage, average tank, average speed... Using ACs you have to get in range, and with a good starting speed you think you would be able to, its not like using all missiles/lasers and sitting 40km away doing full damage. Fitting it gank style is suicidal cos fitting damage mods is pointless you'd have to fit gyro's and bcu's as they only affect 4 weapons each where most other ships affect 6 weapons minimum. It needs another 500-1000pg at least to fit an AB with its minimum weapons/good tank setup. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Onin Ra Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:47:00 - [57] Phoon is fine for a tier1 BS. If you cant find a good use for it, fly a Tempest. And stop comparing it to t2 Raven. --- First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Nafri you have a point or do you just telling nonsense? I see lots of tachs on geddons (fleets). Mann, mann, mann Nafri... Ever checked the PG that is left over on a geddon after fitting Tachyons? No way you can fit any form of decent tank on it. (And rightfully so.) Wonder who is 'telling' the nonsense here. Wont be a great tank, but then agein, the geddon is made for megapulse lasers :p Anyway, as you can see as fitting suggestion it includes great stuff like medium armor repairs... From Dusk till Dawn
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 14:12:00 - [59] Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 06/10/2006 14:12:30 Originally by: Tommy Vercetti Originally by: Sandra Tseng Top tier guns are not generally ment for tier1 BS. It is generally Tank or Gank. When you choose top tier gusn you also chose gank. Generally, those statements are very general. And false. But arguing with you would be like riding an exercise bike connected to a knife that would be continually stabbing me while I pedal. While someone all the time is standing behind you with a bazooka pointed to the back of your head, telling you to keep pedaliong or else.... _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.06 14:45:00 - [60] Ok, it's completely, painfully obvious that the shield and Armor values need to be changed. But giving it more than about 900MW grid or so just seems like it would overpower it to some extent. And for comparison, a Geddon with Megapulse II can't fit much else. Normally, a Geddon will fit 4 Megapulse IIs and 3 Dual Heavy Pulse IIs. Slightly less damage, but with a Co-Proc II and CPU implant you can fit a cap injector and and 2 LAR. A speed mod is pretty much out. If the Phoon had about 900 more grid you could use the setup I posted before with dual large reps or upgrade to Dual 650s with a med t2 and a large rep. Remember that with a MWD and the speed bonus the Phoon should be taking less damage than another BS because the drones and missiles aren't afraid of transversal. TBH it seems to me that giving it too much more grid puts it on the knife edge of being good, to being too good. A bit more wouldnt hurt though. I like that it needs the RCU II since the geddon/apoc and mega all struggle with CPU and putting a co-proc II on them is mandatory. Comparing to a Domi or Raven is slightly unfair since I think everyone can agree they are a bit too good atm. Hopefully that will change some with the Nos/ECM changes. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Wilfan Ret'nub Singularity.	Posted - 2006.10.06 15:30:00 - [61] Make highs 5/5 and whines about grid (and CPU) will dissapear. ------ No ISK, no fun
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.06 17:32:00 - [62] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 06/10/2006 14:12:04 Originally by: Testy Mctest Saying that a ship is not broken or in need of a change because you can fit an abhorrent one-trick pony setup on it is, unfortunately, not a valid argument. why not? its the perfect setup for the Phoon, no other BS can do it so well - and if being able to use Speed+Agility to your advantage dosent mean anything then i guess the Vagabond is sub-par too if you want some muscle, use a Tempest. Basing the opinion of a ships abilities on a video... To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
ergatesAB Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.07 12:08:00 - [63] Edited by: ergatesAB on 07/10/2006 12:08:46 IMHO the Phoon does not "suck". It is true, though, that you can not have four large arties and four siege/cruise launchers at the same time on it. At least not without some great skills/gear. However, even with my about 3.5M combat related skills I am able to run L4 missions like Silence the Informant or Vengeance (Angel version) with my Phoon. If I can put the Phoon's speed to good use (AB2) I currently fit four 1200mm guns and four named heavy missile launchers. With that setup everything besides BS dies quickly, while I only need to tank the occasional cruises/torps. Webber frigs have a huge sig and almost no transversal when they are MWDing 60+ km towards you. Taking down the BS is not that hard either, with the help of some heavy drones. If you have to take down ultra-tanks like Hoborak Moon just switch to four dual 425mms and four named siege launchers. You will not even need to reload your torps before he dies. ergates
Tommy Vercetti Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.07 14:02:00 - [64] Originally by: Wizie Basing the opinion of a ships abilities on a video... To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Nice post wizie. You pretty much summed up what some of us are trying to say. Yes the phoon does have its uses, however people saw how easily the guy owned that thron and think its the new i-win button with 2 mil worth of gear. So consequently, when anyone suggests maybe the phoon needs more armour than shield, or more pg to make fittings more versatile, your met with "The nanophoon is teh haxor" Originally by: "Murukan" It's like really you ***** , it also out damages my tempest so maybe i shouldn't saunter up to the thron at 2km like i'm ready to * it's **.
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.07 14:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be.
Alpine 69 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.07 15:52:00 - [66] Originally by: MysticNZ Who actualy flys these and flys these well? damige, check out locknload 3, phoon ftw Oh noes! Somebody stuck his nerfbat in my sig :(
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.07 15:54:00 - [67] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be. Not as costly as it is to set up a sniper thron these days, 25mil for the MWD is nothing considering the prices on large rails CEO - Art of War
jernej Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.10.07 18:23:00 - [68] I can understand why people fear the nanophoon, but in reality it's just another ship for killing noobs. You have to stay out of web range so you can't web people. That means that you won't be able to kill much on gates or at stations (where most of the fighting is going on) and in the belts you have to avoid asteroids...
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 18:49:00 - [69] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 07/10/2006 18:50:00 Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be. Where are you getting these numbers from ? The 'phoon you're describing hits about ~3.5km / s. Forgive me for not wanting to expend the effort to plug it into the velocity formula right now. Edit : Also Gist-B's have skyrocketed (thanks RA). But there's still plenty of C's around.
Kenya Borgin	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:45:00 - [70] The phoon is in my opinion a very fun ship to fly, much more fun than an apoc or armageddon (the only 2 other BSs I have experience with), and it is excellent for at least small gang pvp. You can fit a crazy tank and still do (some) damage. I agree that it is kinda hard to fit, but its fun!
Octavio Santillian Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:59:00 - [71] Is the phoon the best ship in the gameàwell no. I also agree that it could use at least 500 more PG. In any case, the only really bad thing about the phoon, is that you need crazy skills to fly it to its potential. If ECM does indeed get meaningfully nerfed, the phoon will become a real powerhouse. The thing to remember about a phoon is that almost half of its potential DPS comes from high drone skills. Though it must use drones and all 8 hi slots to pump out its damage, it can indeed pump out a lot. Here are two pretty cheep fitting options: Tank and Damage (746 DPS, ~80 resistances to all, and 9600+ armor): 4x 425 II 4x Siege II 1x Medium Cap Booster 1x Fleeting Web 1x Faint Warp Prohibitory 1x 100MN AB II (here is where the PG for a MWD could really help) 1x LAR II 1x 1600mm RT 1x Explosive II 1x Kinetic II 1x N-Type Thermic 1x EAN II 1x DC (Pseudoelectron or IFFA) Pure Gank (971 DPS, ~1900+ MWD speed): 4x 650 II 4x Siege II 1x 100MN MWD II 1x Multi Spec 1x J5 Warp Inhibitor 1x x5 Web 2x Gyro II 2x BCU II 3x Beta Nano Here is a Chart with the damage potential of the two setups. I included a Phoon with no drones just to give you an idea of where allot of that damage is coming from. I also included a standard 425mm II 1 gyro tempest with Orges to give some Mini reference (of course it would have dual NOS). Linkage PS: I only put 650mm IIs on the gank ship for ammo. The TOTAL DPS differential between using 425 IIs and 800 IIs on a phoon is an astounding 23 DPS (not per gun, but total). 23 DPS is not worth the fitting issues or tracking hit. Ammo is the only real pain with 425s. ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:02:00 - [72] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 07/10/2006 18:50:00 Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be. Where are you getting these numbers from ? The 'phoon you're describing hits about ~3.5km / s. Forgive me for not wanting to expend the effort to plug it into the velocity formula right now. Edit : Also Gist-B's have skyrocketed (thanks RA). But there's still plenty of C's around. Those numbers are based on my crappy navigation/MWD skills with no implants. I'm also Amarr specced, not Minmatar. Btw, PC gist b-type 100mn mwd?
Bunny Wunny Gallente Freelancer Union Unaffiliated	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:08:00 - [73] phoons are uber lemme just say, T2 drones.
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.08 06:36:00 - [74] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 07/10/2006 18:50:00 Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be. Where are you getting these numbers from ? The 'phoon you're describing hits about ~3.5km / s. Forgive me for not wanting to expend the effort to plug it into the velocity formula right now. Edit : Also Gist-B's have skyrocketed (thanks RA). But there's still plenty of C's around. Those numbers are based on my crappy navigation/MWD skills with no implants. I'm also Amarr specced, not Minmatar. Btw, PC gist b-type 100mn mwd? Can't fit 4 siege II, and 4 nos with gist B mwd without an RCU II... (you also need a cap booster, if you haven't flown one). So you can at most have 6 nanos. Whether you bought your mwd for 2mil or 2billion, I don't care. I'm quoting current prices. The Nanophoon only comes into its own once its doing 2.9K/s or better. Know why I mentioned the price? I fly it with 3 different clones with a mix of different implants. Low-grade snakes, full snakes and no snakes. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Pettu Caldari Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.08 06:43:00 - [75] Looks like someone needs to watch the Nanophoon video, very nice and VERY unique way of using it. Now if i can just find that link.... ---- No signature yet
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.08 06:51:00 - [76] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/10/2006 06:52:48 Originally by: Pettu Edited by: Pettu on 08/10/2006 06:49:49 Looks like someone needs to watch the Nanophoon video, very nice and VERY unique way of using it. Now if i can just find that link.... Edit: Reading only the first page before posting 4tl. it's already up there... but putting the link in again thoughLinkage I wish he hadnt made that video... now it looks like the ship is good because it can act like a circus horse. :/ Only problem is that you have to fill all the lows with nanos, so you cant have tank or damage or.. anything really. I think the Vaga is more effective in this role anyway. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.08 08:14:00 - [77] Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 07/10/2006 18:50:00 Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be. Where are you getting these numbers from ? The 'phoon you're describing hits about ~3.5km / s. Forgive me for not wanting to expend the effort to plug it into the velocity formula right now. Edit : Also Gist-B's have skyrocketed (thanks RA). But there's still plenty of C's around. Those numbers are based on my crappy navigation/MWD skills with no implants. I'm also Amarr specced, not Minmatar. Btw, PC gist b-type 100mn mwd? Originally by: Wizie Can't fit 4 siege II, and 4 nos with gist B mwd without an RCU II... (you also need a cap booster, if you haven't flown one). So you can at most have 6 nanos. As I said previously, 6 local hull nanos is enough for the speed you were talking a few posts back (2.3km/s). Originally by: Wizie Whether you bought your mwd for 2mil or 2billion, I don't care. I'm quoting current prices. The Nanophoon only comes into its own once its doing 2.9K/s or better. With full Snake set and 6 local hull nanos it goes over 3km/s. How fast do you want the damn thing to be? Besides, since we're only using 6 nanos here, there's one slot free for RCUII, which means one should be able to fit 4* Siege II and 4* Nos on highs. With my fitting skills these leave 1704.9PG/235CPU free which admittely makes it too hard to even fit a heavy electrochem but that's what ship fitting is all about in the end: Cramming it all to there. I wouldn't fit 4* Nos to NanoPhoon in the first place anyways... Originally by: Wizie Know why I mentioned the price? I fly it with 3 different clones with a mix of different implants. Low-grade snakes, full snakes and no snakes. You're apparently not doing very well in it or haven't tried a true NanoPhoon
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.08 14:07:00 - [78] Bump. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.08 15:57:00 - [79] Honestly, complaining about using ONE fitting mod is kind of a joke when you have all the low slots. You should just get used to it. Ships with extra highs like the Munnin shouldnt have to use fitting mods. For all other ships when you want to fit Nos+ biggest weapons you need to just belly up to the bar and pay the tab in a fitting mod (or two!) even with max fitting skills. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.08 20:08:00 - [80] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 07/10/2006 18:50:00 Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Wizie To fit that Phoon, you need an mwd worth about 75mil, implants worth another 100mil (atleast 1-2 low-grade snakes) and the best nanos possible. 2x 3% implants, 100mn MWD II and 5 local hull nanos only give you approx 2400m/s speed. Thats not enough.... I can fit the best faction gear on any ship and call it uber... doesn't mean it is. The nanophoon has its uses... The situations in which it is useful are very limited though. Your math/ISK estimation is way off. Minnie bs 4 + high speed maneuvering lvl1 + navigation lvl4 + Gist B-Type 100MN MWD (I bought mine for 25M) and 6 local hull nanos is enough to boost the max speed to 2374m/s. 7th nano will throw it to 2550m/s. Alternatively 6 beta hull mod nanos can throw the max speed to 2330m/s, 7h will boost it to 2499m/s. Sure it's costy but not as costy as you claim it to be. Where are you getting these numbers from ? The 'phoon you're describing hits about ~3.5km / s. Forgive me for not wanting to expend the effort to plug it into the velocity formula right now. Edit : Also Gist-B's have skyrocketed (thanks RA). But there's still plenty of C's around. Those numbers are based on my crappy navigation/MWD skills with no implants. I'm also Amarr specced, not Minmatar. Btw, PC gist b-type 100mn mwd? Originally by: Wizie Can't fit 4 siege II, and 4 nos with gist B mwd without an RCU II... (you also need a cap booster, if you haven't flown one). So you can at most have 6 nanos. As I said previously, 6 local hull nanos is enough for the speed you were talking a few posts back (2.3km/s). Originally by: Wizie Whether you bought your mwd for 2mil or 2billion, I don't care. I'm quoting current prices. The Nanophoon only comes into its own once its doing 2.9K/s or better. With full Snake set and 6 local hull nanos it goes over 3km/s. How fast do you want the damn thing to be? Besides, since we're only using 6 nanos here, there's one slot free for RCUII, which means one should be able to fit 4* Siege II and 4* Nos on highs. With my fitting skills these leave 1704.9PG/235CPU free which admittely makes it too hard to even fit a heavy electrochem but that's what ship fitting is all about in the end: Cramming it all to there. I wouldn't fit 4* Nos to NanoPhoon in the first place anyways... Originally by: Wizie Know why I mentioned the price? I fly it with 3 different clones with a mix of different implants. Low-grade snakes, full snakes and no snakes. You're apparently not doing very well in it or haven't tried a true NanoPhoon Do you have a point? Mine was that a nanophoon (a 1 trick pony) costs tons to fit out right. By tons I mean 100mil + for fittings alone. As for my doing well in it... I fly it, and it works. Only in very few situations. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.08 22:37:00 - [81] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 08/10/2006 22:37:37 Why does everyone mention T2 drones as being what makes the Typhoon so "uber"? The Megathron and Armageddon can use the same number of heavy drones, but noone mentions that - because they can both dish out a lot of damage without the drones. Apparently people feel that the Typhoon can't ... That's quite sad.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:30:00 - [82] Originally by: Liam Fremen Phoon is a very funny pvp ship with a very fast fitting... i mean 5+ nanofiber. My actual fitting for pvp is the following: 4x Cruise launcher (limo's or similar named, low cost one) 4x Knave heavy nosferatu (about 500-600k isk each) 1x 100mn quad lif fueled (about 600k) 1x 20km scrambler 1x Target Painter / Conjunctive ECCM Ladar (about 500k) 1x Heavy electrochemical cap booster (about 300k) 7x Nanofiber t1 This make the ship going about 3km/s, amazing agility, good damage output vs cruiser and bs's, is a little different from the normal fitting with torps, i prefer this one with cruise. The good thing of this ship is that you realy have the control of the distance, and this is amazing... your drone helps you very much and when you get scrambled by a inty, just activate 4 nosferatu on it and warp away :) (made it about 10 times at least) Is a funny ship, for a low expense you get a fun ship to fly, nothing else :) fun and sometime deadly but don't bealive you will be able to kill everything, you just will be able to run away from "nearly" everything :) Can't say i've ever tried something like this. Very interesting though :) -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.09 04:40:00 - [83] imo phoon have still problems....pg and armor/shield but also the split weapons/bonuses are imo quite bad. there is a big difference in the 2 weapons systems with missiles totally dominating.... more dps, more versatility, no tracking problems... the fact that there are so many phoon pilots that fit a 4missile/4nos config is indicative of this weapon umbalance... is interesting to see that many pilots actually chose to not benefit from one of their ship bonuses to reach a better efficency. ths imo show that the ship is not yet "fixed" or balanced, also i think it should be considered that this ship is a close range specialized boat, but both the dps and the tank are nothing exceptional. the nanophoon is a fun and nice ship, effective vs turret bs but not that good in other situations... (even if generally it can chose its battle). to be very effective imo it need a quite expensive fitting and implants... 3k max (orbit will be lower) are still low against a good missile user or a good domi.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.09 07:23:00 - [84] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 09/10/2006 07:23:24 Originally by: Octavio Santillian Tank and Damage (746 DPS, ~80 resistances to all, and 9600+ armor): 4x 425 II 4x Siege II 1x Medium Cap Booster 1x Fleeting Web 1x Faint Warp Prohibitory 1x 100MN AB II (here is where the PG for a MWD could really help) 1x LAR II 1x 1600mm RT 1x Explosive II 1x Kinetic II 1x N-Type Thermic 1x EAN II 1x DC (Pseudoelectron or IFFA) That setup 4tw vs. other close range Battleships; Megathrons, Tempests, the only slight problem is reduced capability vs. smaller ships, but then, you can't be good against everything (oh and all out Gank/Tank Torpedo Ravens, but then they can't hold anything in place). The Typhoon does not need more grid, you can already fit 4x Siege II and 4x 425 II plus a full bay of Heavy drones. Compare that to a Dominix, similar tank, and Electron Blaster II's are the largest weapon you can fit and you still need an RCU II But then, both are Tier 1 ships afterall and should not be packing the largest weapons available without sacrifices... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
TuRtLe HeAd The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.10.09 07:32:00 - [85] The Phoon is a wicked platform, Forget the Powergrid, Its got oodles of CPU, Any Idea how many stabs I can fit with that. Honestly I liked the Phoon before, I like it even more now. One thing it should possibly have is a drone bonus like the domi, Not As Much as the domi, But 2.5% to 5% per level would be a start. After all it is/was the Minmatar drone ship before the Drone Nerf/Boost.
Octavio Santillian Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.09 07:50:00 - [86] Originally by: Ath Amon the fact that there are so many phoon pilots that fit a 4missile/4nos config is indicative of this weapon umbalance... is interesting to see that many pilots actually chose to not benefit from one of their ship bonuses to reach a better efficency. ths imo show that the ship is not yet "fixed" or balanced, also i think it should be considered that this ship is a close range specialized boat, but both the dps and the tank are nothing exceptional. Can't argue with that! It's still not as bad as people make it out to be, but it could still use some love. ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.09 08:21:00 - [87] I do not understand why ppl keep saying that the Phoon as PG problems. This ship continues to amaze me. I have previously in this thread said that you have to realize that it is a Tier1 BS and therefore scale down on your weapons. Lat night I tried it out myself. Amazinly enough - I was able to fit full rack of the top tier Autocannons (800mm's) and four Cruise Launcehrs. I had no problem fitting the medslot modules you need and I have a good tank with 75% or more resistance across the board. Top tier Autocannons (with the right ammo) plus four cruise launchers and a dronebay full of Heavy and light drones. Who could be complaining about the damage output here? I was surprised to fit all theese things without any RCU's or Coproc's. Phoon is the ****! \o/ _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.09 09:08:00 - [88] Originally by: Sandra Tseng I do not understand why ppl keep saying that the Phoon as PG problems. This ship continues to amaze me. I have previously in this thread said that you have to realize that it is a Tier1 BS and therefore scale down on your weapons. Lat night I tried it out myself. Amazinly enough - I was able to fit full rack of the top tier Autocannons (800mm's) and four Cruise Launcehrs. I had no problem fitting the medslot modules you need and I have a good tank with 75% or more resistance across the board. Top tier Autocannons (with the right ammo) plus four cruise launchers and a dronebay full of Heavy and light drones. Who could be complaining about the damage output here? I was surprised to fit all theese things without any RCU's or Coproc's. Phoon is the ***! \o/ _ yeah ok, post the setup. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick* now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.09 09:31:00 - [89] I just did 4x 800mm repeating artillery 4x Cruise launchers What you need in meds Tank in lows 5 Heavy Drones 10 Light Drones (5 scout and 5 EW drones) : Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Susa Ou	Posted - 2006.10.09 10:47:00 - [90] Those who doubt the power of the typhoon are not thinking correctly. I know quite a few people who fly them very effectlvly (and not as a 'poor mans domi' either). It has very good slot allocation, armor tanks well and does a fair bit of dps.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:08:00 - [91] Originally by: Gabriel Karade The Typhoon does not need more grid, you can already fit 4x Siege II and 4x 425 II plus a full bay of Heavy drones. Compare that to a Dominix, similar tank, and Electron Blaster II's are the largest weapon you can fit and you still need an RCU II But then, both are Tier 1 ships afterall and should not be packing the largest weapons available without sacrifices... i can't look at graphs now but actually the domi with it electrons+drones outdps the phoon by a good margin... if i remember right actually that domi have the highest dps potential of all BS (or second close to mega), and on top of that it have same tank of the phoon and an additional midslot for more ecm i also suggest to not use 800mm guns, stay on 425 or 650... the damage curve of 800mm is almost identical to 650mm and the bigger guns have also a worse tracking (same tracking as a neutron).
jernej Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:24:00 - [92] A question for the older phoon pilots... Once the phoon could fly 7 heavy drones, so it got quite nerfed with the drone changes ? How many heavies could the geddon fly back then ?
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:33:00 - [93] Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 09/10/2006 11:35:32 Originally by: Gabriel Karade The Typhoon does not need more grid, you can already fit 4x Siege II and 4x 425 II plus a full bay of Heavy drones. Compare that to a Dominix, similar tank, and Electron Blaster II's are the largest weapon you can fit and you still need an RCU II But then, both are Tier 1 ships afterall and should not be packing the largest weapons available without sacrifices... As I posted earlier, 425mm + cruise launchers leaves enough pg for a reasonable tank, it leaves about same pg as electron's on a domi but with less damage and less ECM... Fitting seige launchers would leave less pg than a electron Domi. Comparing against a Domi isn't a great arguement considering how powerful it is. Domi can rely on drones and ECM while fitting a tank similar to a Phoon, which has to use its high's for damage and not just rely on its drones. Sure you can fit seige and 425mm's, but not much after that without said RCU. A Domi fitting RCU can output much more damage while having that extra mid slot and the same tank as a phoon. It also gets greater effect from any damage mods than the Typhoon since it can fit 6 turrets while the Typhoon fitting damage mod will only effect 4 guns or 4 launchers. The phoon isn't far from being a good ship, personally i'm not asking for huge ammounts of grid, just 500pg to 1000pg. Or give it drone bonus instead of proj bonus, no one would complain after that (I am not serious about that drone bonus btw) Originally by: Ath Amon i can't look at graphs now but actually the domi with it electrons+drones outdps the phoon by a good margin... if i remember right actually that domi have the highest dps potential of all BS (or second close to mega), and on top of that it have same tank of the phoon and an additional midslot for more ecm About 150dps difference with no damage mods at 10km the phoons damage is higher (t2 long range blaster ammo would increase it to 15km area). The more damage mods fitted the greater the difference in dps in favour of the Domi. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:49:00 - [94] You can see that the Typhoon has "issues" when you consider that it needs at least 4 high level slots together with its drones in order to have a damage output comparable to a Dominix with drones only. That leaves it with 4 / 4 / 7 slots compared to the Domi's 6 / 5 / 7 while also having a lot less PG and CPU left. The fact that it can use 4 launchers with a bonus and has lower sig radius and better lock time does little to compensate that. It really needs some love, either in the form of 5-6 launcher and turret slots (5 both or 6 both - that is versatility, 4/4 is 0 versatility - jeez, even the Ferox is more versatile) or with a lot more PG/CPU.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:53:00 - [95] Stop comparing with the farkign domonix!! The current state of NOS's and ECM's makes the ship OVERPOWERED. Compare with Scorpion and armageddon if you have to compare. _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Darineah Charach Minmatar The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:06:00 - [96] Originally by: Pan Crastus You can see that the Typhoon has "issues" when you consider that it needs at least 4 high level slots together with its drones in order to have a damage output comparable to a Dominix with drones only. That leaves it with 4 / 4 / 7 slots compared to the Domi's 6 / 5 / 7 while also having a lot less PG and CPU left. The fact that it can use 4 launchers with a bonus and has lower sig radius and better lock time does little to compensate that. It really needs some love, either in the form of 5-6 launcher and turret slots (5 both or 6 both - that is versatility, 4/4 is 0 versatility - jeez, even the Ferox is more versatile) or with a lot more PG/CPU. QFT. 500-1000 grid and the 5/5 or 6/6 hardpoint layout would finish off the Typhoon nicely. Personally, i'd prefer to see a 5/5 layout without changing the ships bonus's. This would mean Tempest is still a better turret boat, Raven still better with missiles and Domi still better with drones. However, only the Typhoon can do all 3 well enough. This in my opinion is the definition of versatile, without being overpowered, and that's what the ships is supposed to be. ------- Boxing Kangaroo
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:20:00 - [97] Originally by: Darineah Charach Personally, i'd prefer to see a 5/5 layout without changing the ships bonus's. This would mean Tempest is still a better turret boat, Raven still better with missiles and Domi still better with drones. The Raven would be better than a 6/6 Typhoon with missiles too, due to its dual bonus, just like the Tempest with turrets. So I'd prefer 6/6 ;-).
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:28:00 - [98] When people are discussing boosting the typhoon without making it actually the best at ANYTHING, I dont know what happened with the minmatar playerbase. Being a generalist that gets killed by every specialist in the game doesnt work. Its like, fine, pick launchers or turrets or drones, you will still die. :/ --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:32:00 - [99] Imho what the phoon really needs (and what would also make it the best at something) is a base speed that is significantly faster than the other battleships. It is the fastest T1 one, sure, sut the margin is way too small to make a difference. It should be up there with the Machariel imho, or maybe even beyond. 200 m/s doesn't sound too wrong to me. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:43:00 - [100] Once again, people are too focused on DPS, the Typhoon setup posted on the previous page totally owns close range Tempests and Megathrons AND can still hit out to 80km. Does it come close in DPS stakes? no - because it doesn't need to. In response to the Dominix vs Typhoon; Firstly I deliberatly spoke of a Dominix with blasters, Nosferatu's and ECM are the problem, not the Dominix itself. Secondly it does not have the same tank, the Typhoon can use all low slots and all it's cap to tank, the Dominix requires a MWD, mandating a large injector, it has cap hungry turrets, which also require a fitting module and this is for the smallest of all Battleship blasters. The Typhoon does not need more grid it is a Tier 1 ship and can already fit the largest T2 launchers, a full rack of T2 Autocannons and a tank to make a Blasterthron cry... Swap over it's shield and armour by all means, given it is an armour tank, but boosting it again is not needed. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:47:00 - [101] Originally by: Pan Crastus You can see that the Typhoon has "issues" when you consider that it needs at least 4 high level slots together with its drones in order to have a damage output comparable to a Dominix with drones only. That leaves it with 4 / 4 / 7 slots compared to the Domi's 6 / 5 / 7 while also having a lot less PG and CPU left. The fact that it can use 4 launchers with a bonus and has lower sig radius and better lock time does little to compensate that. It really needs some love, either in the form of 5-6 launcher and turret slots (5 both or 6 both - that is versatility, 4/4 is 0 versatility - jeez, even the Ferox is more versatile) or with a lot more PG/CPU. You exaggerate the difference: Dominix, Ogre II's - 475 dps Typhoon, Ogre II's - 316 dps Add in the Siege and the Autocannons along with the 7 slot tank and you have excellent versatility (0-80km) and little to worry about from most close range Battleships ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.09 14:02:00 - [102] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 09/10/2006 14:03:53 Originally by: Gabriel Karade You exaggerate the difference: Dominix, Ogre II's - 475 dps Typhoon, Ogre II's - 316 dps With what set of skills? Max. drone skills and BS level 5 should give +50% for the Dominix. Quote: Add in the Siege and the Autocannons along with the 7 slot tank and you have excellent versatility (0-80km) and little to worry about from most close range Battleships The tank will be crap without Nos or at least a Cap booster (which uses so much PG that you have to gimp your guns or your tank - and let's better not compare a Domi with 6 guns and Cap booster to a Typhoon ...), the "0-80km" is widely exaggerated since only your torps will go that far. The maximum DPS is available only at 3-4Km (Dominix without guns: 50Km+).
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.09 15:10:00 - [103] the "source" of dominix power is not by nos or ecm itself, is the effectiveness of drones. is interesting to notice that we have nosboat when the ship have "umbalanced" weapon systems. it happens both with domi, where the drones (and big dronebay) give enought dps to be sufficent in combat and with the phoon where the proj dps is not that influential to ship performance. a 6/6 missile/turret allocation will make me quite happy... but in the end it will not resolve the weapon umbalance aboard the ship... it will be the same to give it 6 missiles and 2 turrets (or 2 "utility" high slots) as the general effectiveness/dps of missiles is far superior to ACs so speaking about bonuses/turret allocation i will like to see something like 6/2 with missile and speed bonus or i can live with current 4/4 or 5/5 but with 7.5 rof/lv to proj (as it is on the naglfar), this way the weapon systems are way more balanced (at leat in dps), the general dps of the ship will increase (whitout becoming overpowered) and we will be way happier :P another thing to note is that raven have not that much to fear from a phoon with 6 missiles and +5rof... even if bonuses/missile slots will be the same the rave can benefit form the velocity/range bonus and from the tons of damage mods it can fit along its uber tank. a phoon to reach similar dps will be forced to gimp its tank and will probably have even some CPU problems.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.10 00:01:00 - [104] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 10/10/2006 00:01:19 Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 09/10/2006 14:03:53 Originally by: Gabriel Karade You exaggerate the difference: Dominix, Ogre II's - 475 dps Typhoon, Ogre II's - 316 dps With what set of skills? Max. drone skills and BS level 5 should give +50% for the Dominix. Quote: Add in the Siege and the Autocannons along with the 7 slot tank and you have excellent versatility (0-80km) and little to worry about from most close range Battleships The tank will be crap without Nos or at least a Cap booster (which uses so much PG that you have to gimp your guns or your tank - and let's better not compare a Domi with 6 guns and Cap booster to a Typhoon ...), the "0-80km" is widely exaggerated since only your torps will go that far. The maximum DPS is available only at 3-4Km (Dominix without guns: 50Km+). The above figure was with maximum skills in both cases so donÆt play dumb and try to add another 50% onto that, the gap is not that significant (159 dps)à. Look at the previous page, the setup is posted there, the tank is pretty good (Medium booster is sufficient and require no fitting modules), enough to out-last a 1200+ dps Ion Blaster II Megathron The maximum damage is only available at AC optimal but then the Domi's maximum damage is only available at Electron blaster optimal, plus the AC's only add a relatively insignificant component to the total damage û the majority is due to drones and torpedos which combined are available out to 60km (80 km for T1 torpedos) ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.10 00:37:00 - [105] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 10/10/2006 00:01:19 Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 09/10/2006 14:03:53 Originally by: Gabriel Karade You exaggerate the difference: Dominix, Ogre II's - 475 dps Typhoon, Ogre II's - 316 dps With what set of skills? Max. drone skills and BS level 5 should give +50% for the Dominix. Quote: Add in the Siege and the Autocannons along with the 7 slot tank and you have excellent versatility (0-80km) and little to worry about from most close range Battleships The tank will be crap without Nos or at least a Cap booster (which uses so much PG that you have to gimp your guns or your tank - and let's better not compare a Domi with 6 guns and Cap booster to a Typhoon ...), the "0-80km" is widely exaggerated since only your torps will go that far. The maximum DPS is available only at 3-4Km (Dominix without guns: 50Km+). The above figure was with maximum skills in both cases so don’t play dumb and try to add another 50% onto that, the gap is not that significant (159 dps)…. Look at the previous page, the setup is posted there, the tank is pretty good (Medium booster is sufficient and require no fitting modules), enough to out-last a 1200+ dps Ion Blaster II Megathron The maximum damage is only available at AC optimal but then the Domi's maximum damage is only available at Electron blaster optimal, plus the AC's only add a relatively insignificant component to the total damage – the majority is due to drones and torpedos which combined are available out to 60km (80 km for T1 torpedos) Can you lock at 80K.. or are you using that mid slot for a sensor booster. In reality, a pvp fitted blasterthron will beat the phoon, so will the typical nos domi... A Tempest will possibly lose (depending on the jamming fitted). ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.10 03:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Look at the previous page, the setup is posted there, the tank is pretty good (Medium booster is sufficient and require no fitting modules), enough to out-last a 1200+ dps Ion Blaster II Megathron The maximum damage is only available at AC optimal but then the Domi's maximum damage is only available at Electron blaster optimal, plus the AC's only add a relatively insignificant component to the total damage û the majority is due to drones and torpedos which combined are available out to 60km (80 km for T1 torpedos) Fit the same tank (use T2 thermic instead of N-Type, fits easily) on a Dominix, add T2 Electron Blasters with Void L and you will get: - almost the same DPS from the 6 blasters as from the 4 AC + 4 torps (about 8% less or so) - 50% more DPS from the Domi's drones than from the Typhoon's - and the Domi gets 1 spare medium slot too for a cap recharger or whatever => The domi gets the upper hand every time unless the pilot is stupid (and without ECM) Since you also brought up the Megathron (I assume you were joking in comparing them) - fit the same tank on a Mega (but use another N-Type for a T2 due to CPU - small difference) and you can fit a rack of T2 Neutrons. I don't think I have to elaborate on what this means for the Typhoon vs. Megathron DPS, not to mention HP etc. So even with high skills it is inferior to most other frequently used ships at PVP, unless you somehow manage to dish it out with them at 50-60Km range only. But hey, torps + heavy drones are nice for ratting, so at least it's useful there.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 07:52:00 - [107] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/10/2006 07:53:09 Assuming Tuxford wants to make the Typhoon into a proper close range ship, I think it needs more dps potential compared to the blasterthron and the Raven. It currently doesnt have any advantages over the gallente ships, unless you want to turn it into a circus horse that spins around in a circle, launching missiles. :/ --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.10 08:08:00 - [108] then gallente should not stand a chance in long range :P but you should try the nanophoon... it is fun and cheaper than a vaga :) (but be prepared to flee from missile boats if you don't use implants/good fitting)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 08:19:00 - [109] Originally by: Ath Amon then gallente should not stand a chance in long range :P Well, they do. Megathron might not have the best alpha strike, but it certainly has higher dps. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2006.10.10 08:37:00 - [110] Originally by: Kaiu As a logistics with NOS it is nice support boat imo that about tells ya how much it sucks.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.10 12:50:00 - [111] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Gabriel Karade Look at the previous page, the setup is posted there, the tank is pretty good (Medium booster is sufficient and require no fitting modules), enough to out-last a 1200+ dps Ion Blaster II Megathron The maximum damage is only available at AC optimal but then the Domi's maximum damage is only available at Electron blaster optimal, plus the AC's only add a relatively insignificant component to the total damage û the majority is due to drones and torpedos which combined are available out to 60km (80 km for T1 torpedos) Fit the same tank (use T2 thermic instead of N-Type, fits easily) on a Dominix, add T2 Electron Blasters with Void L and you will get: - almost the same DPS from the 6 blasters as from the 4 AC + 4 torps (about 8% less or so) - 50% more DPS from the Domi's drones than from the Typhoon's - and the Domi gets 1 spare medium slot too for a cap recharger or whatever => The domi gets the upper hand every time unless the pilot is stupid (and without ECM) Since you also brought up the Megathron (I assume you were joking in comparing them) - fit the same tank on a Mega (but use another N-Type for a T2 due to CPU - small difference) and you can fit a rack of T2 Neutrons. I don't think I have to elaborate on what this means for the Typhoon vs. Megathron DPS, not to mention HP etc. So even with high skills it is inferior to most other frequently used ships at PVP, unless you somehow manage to dish it out with them at 50-60Km range only. But hey, torps + heavy drones are nice for ratting, so at least it's useful there. Please re-read what I said, you cannot fit the same tank, because you require an RCU II to fit the high slots on a Dominix, the Typhoon does not, and that is the point I am making - it does not need more grid. And no I'm most certainly not joking about the Megathron, pit an Ion Blaster II Megathron with perfect skills and Ogre II's vs. that Typhoon setup with good, but far from perfect (lacking T2 heavy drones)skills and you will be suprised of the result of a 3km stationnary slugging match. No one here yet has given a convincing argument for boosting the grid beyond "I want I want", well you already have an excellent close range ship - it seems many you are not taking full advantage of it (perhaps that is fortunate for pilots such as myself). Oh and before I forget, 80km is a ball park figure, you can of course reach 75km with the Typhoon's locking range, but still, thats 70km more than a Void equiped Megathron is going to reach.. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.10 12:55:00 - [112] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/10/2006 08:00:21 Assuming Tuxford wants to make the Typhoon into a proper close range ship, I think it needs more dps potential compared to the blasterthron and the Raven. It currently doesnt have any advantages over the gallente ships, unless you want to turn it into a circus horse that spins around in a circle, launching missiles. :/ no cap usage, primary weapon system useful up to locking range, ability to change damage types without loss of raw DPS, full bay of Heavy drones with reserve space... In a Stationnary slugging match, with equally skilled pilots and full tech II weapons/drones a Typhoon can easily come out on top vs a Blasterthron - it doesn't need any further boosting, swap it's shields and armour HP around, that's all it needs. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:11:00 - [113] Since when is a 2x LAR, and injector, bloody standard for a tier 1 BS???? ffs And wth does a typhoon need a injector for? But no comment from me. Just find the I can't fit 800s sieges, 2x LAR and a injector without grid modules, so typhoon is broken comppletely and totally ridiculous.
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:22:00 - [114] Originally by: Gariuys Since when is a 2x LAR, and injector, bloody standard for a tier 1 BS???? ffs And wth does a typhoon need a injector for? But no comment from me. Just find the I can't fit 800s sieges, 2x LAR and a injector without grid modules, so typhoon is broken comppletely and totally ridiculous. I would be glad if I could fit 1 LAR, 1 1600 plate, 1 mwd, 4 dual 425 (weakest/smallest) and 4 siege and a cap injector. No need to exagerate. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Chee Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:50:00 - [115] this setup fits and works ok: 4 dual 425mm t2, 4 cruise t2 mwd t2, web/scram, heavy electro cap booster lar t2, 1600mm RT plate, therm/kin/exp hardeners t2, eanm t2, decent dmg control t2 heavys and t2 mediums needs an awfull lot of skillpoints but it works. DPS is around 630, which is quite low. You can use fury cruise to bring it up to almost 700 which gets it closer to 425/siege setups. Obvious advantage here is the MWD, which imo, is a must when working solo in hostile territory, saved me from going splat plenty of times. Also the cruise give increased effectivness against smaller targets, I dont run into hostile BS all day long anyway. The tank works pretty good, resists are quite high and coupled with the lar/plate lasts you a while. I havnt tried it in the field against a blasterthron yet but this 'might' work: Keeping distance with ur mwd (ur faster) till you have eaten his shields and partially his armor. Then before the Blasterthron runs because he cant catch you, switch off MWD, let him get close, rely on your tank to outlast him (switch to hail for extra DPS since your going in close anyway). I have no problem going down to a blastermega, the whole concept of a blasterT is to munch other people close range, its what its designed for. Im faster then them and I can choose wheter I want to run or fight (this is not a foolproof statement, just personal experience/luck so far).
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.10 14:06:00 - [116] Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 10/10/2006 14:10:38 Originally by: Gabriel Karade no cap usage, primary weapon system useful up to locking range, ability to change damage types without loss of raw DPS, full bay of Heavy drones with reserve space... Phoon has no Primary weapon, it has to use 3 different weapon systems which are all have different max effective ranges. Only 4 slots (missiles) can change the damage type without loss of DPS. That leaves 4 projectiles which can be changed at a loss of dps and heavy drones which it can't choose what to deploy like a Domi can. Phoon gets 2 reserve heavy drones or 5 meds... Originally by: Gabriel Karade In a Stationnary slugging match, with equally skilled pilots and full tech II weapons/drones a Typhoon can easily come out on top vs a Blasterthron - it doesn't need any further boosting, swap it's shields and armour HP around, that's all it needs. If a Typhoon's tank > Mega's I would question the Mega pilots low slot tank... Typhoon with Dual 425mm and Cruise can fit a combo of: Mwd Heavy Cap booster Large Rep 1600 plate Heavy cap booster is a waste in my experience since cap use isn't to high but is good for anti-nos, fitting a med cap booster is enough for the rep unless you get nossed. PG saved from dropping to med booster means you can do seige launchers for a dps increase since "max tank" isn't possible like others. A Mega with Electrons + heavy nos can fit: Mwd Heavy Cap booster Dual T2 Large Rep 1600 plate (ok would take a cpu implant to fit lows with 2x EANM+dmg control + misc) So I seriously question the low slot use on your Mega if it can't break a phoons tank before the phoon breaks the Megas tank since its DPS (425mm T2 + seige T2 + t2 Drones) is very close to (7x Electron T2 + T2 Drones). Thats the largest missiles and lowest AC (filling all the highs) vs all lowest tier Blasters (plus a spare high for nos) and having very similar dps. 500pg just increases the choice slightly, can fit Dual 425mm T2 + Cruise T2 + Heavy Cap + 2x T1 Large rep BUT without a MWD and just fits a AB with AWU 5. (no plate) Just over 1000pg would allow the Dual 425mm T2 + Cruise T2 + Heavy Cap + 2x T1 Large rep + Mwd setup. (no plate) The ship would still have to sacrifice something, it not a huge increase as the choice of what to fit is limitied. Main point is whatever tank the phoon can fit so can the Mega... Originally by: Gariuys Since when is a 2x LAR, and injector, bloody standard for a tier 1 BS???? ffs Since the BS's are meant to have different roles that they are good at and not just be tier 2 beats tier 1... ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.10.10 14:19:00 - [117] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Please re-read what I said, you cannot fit the same tank, because you require an RCU II to fit the high slots on a Dominix No, you don't. Try it. Straight from Quickfit: Dominix Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Medium Capacitor Booster I 100MN Afterburner II Empty Slot <- EW and stuff Empty Slot Empty Slot 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Remain 515.8 PG / 199.5 CPU You can also leave out 1 Blaster and fit a MWD, it still beats the Typhoon in raw DPS. Quote: And no I'm most certainly not joking about the Megathron, pit an Ion Blaster II Megathron with perfect skills and Ogre II's vs. that Typhoon setup with good, but far from perfect (lacking T2 heavy drones)skills and you will be suprised of the result of a 3km stationnary slugging match. The Mega will blast away the Typhoon easily. Just do the maths yourself like I did. Besides, you can fit Neutrons with this tank (and still have more HP than the Typhoon).
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.10.10 17:31:00 - [118] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 10/10/2006 17:32:46 Originally by: random alt.... aka Mila Prestoc The main point is I have tested this with a competent Matari pilot, and the 425mm II, Siege II, 7 slot armour tank Typhoon with T1 Heavy drones is an excellent close range platform, add in T2 heavy drones and it is even more so, and certainly in no need of further boosting (though I agree armour and Shield HP should be swapped) ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.10.10 18:46:00 - [119] phoon is fine, just skillpoint intensive, still the dominix is a much easier ship for close range work but phoon holds its own a lot.
operated Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:55:00 - [120] The typhoon was my first bs , and after 3 years i still fly it .Thing about the ship that i like is i mostly change the fitting when i board it .So i always fly it different .Though it goes with a lot of swearing etc (lol) .Anyhow im older player with t2 seiges and t2 ac so i can feel the pain of younger players , it sure aint the best bs out there , but once you get the skills you become damn lethal in it . That beiing said give me any other bs and itll be way easyer . Maybe thats why i like the phoon cause its underdog . All minmatar stuff is underpowerd now cause of ppl having uber tanks but our proj still same like before
Siakel	Posted - 2006.10.10 21:06:00 - [121] Originally by: operated The typhoon was my first bs , and after 3 years i still fly it .Thing about the ship that i like is i mostly change the fitting when i board it .So i always fly it different .Though it goes with a lot of swearing etc (lol) .Anyhow im older player with t2 seiges and t2 ac so i can feel the pain of younger players , it sure aint the best bs out there , but once you get the skills you become damn lethal in it . That beiing said give me any other bs and itll be way easyer . Maybe thats why i like the phoon cause its underdog . All minmatar stuff is underpowerd now cause of ppl having uber tanks but our proj still same like before Yes, I'd hate to be forced to fly Vagabonds, or Sleipnirs, or Jaguars, or Wolves, or Ruptures, or Stabbers, or Thrashers, etc. They're all quite obviously the worst in their shipclass. Originally by: operated All minmatar stuff is underpowerd now cause of ppl having uber tanks but our proj still same like before And Lasers, Hybrids, and Missiles all got their DPS increased because tanks were harder to break, right?
operated Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:28:00 - [122] Edited by: operated on 11/10/2006 14:35:31 well look at what skills a minmatar pilot needs before he starts to become usefull , then look at the other races . We need armourtanking, missileskills, shieldskills ;droneskills , etc . Though you might be right proj not underpowerd you just need a lot of training till you can fly a minnie ship well .While other races only need half the skills .

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