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ElRodeo
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Posted - 2003.10.27 23:15:00 -
[31]
Edited by: ElRodeo on 27/10/2003 23:17:55
(3 damage types on hybrids? that is projectiles  ) by the way everyone is knocking hybrids over 2 3rds of the comunity :-
a. dont use them,
b.know that they arent widely used, and therefore dont equip against them.
comparatively a good gallente hybrid setup is equivalent to a good apoc setup.
that is all im saying in this thread. not that one is superior because of extra defensive tactics and slightly less powerfull guns.
the two setups are evenly matched, and therefore get my vote for bieng balanced.
my question is why do people think hybrids suck 
they are conservative guns for a well rounded ship.
ElRodeo
May the Blood of the Innocent and the Righteous Cleanse me of my Demons.
May Any God you Choose to Worship Have Mercy Upon Your Soul
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.28 00:27:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
...
my question is why do people think hybrids suck
they are conservative guns for a well rounded ship.
Because PvP isn't about a conservative fight with a well rounded ship. It's about kicking the living crap out of someone as quickly as possible.
When 2 Tempests open up on you with 4 1400mm each and 2 out of the 8 score wreckings over 1.1k, while the rest hit for mere 600 excellents, conservative is a liability.
Boiled down, hybrid users are upset they have no gank guns. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Javi
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Posted - 2003.10.28 00:46:00 -
[33]
elrodeo you're hopeless.
--
"well..."
-Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat |
Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.10.28 02:10:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Am I the only one that notices this... 425's and tach's are in two different categories... compare the 425 to the beam and then you will see similar results. The tach was a special turret that uses alot more power grid and alot more cap for alot more dmg.
You are absolutly right about the turret classifications Draginslayer, but i disagree about your point on why there should not me a 4250MW Hybrid turret, or at least a 3250MW like the Mega Beam or 1400mm.
Quote:
They need to implement 4250 powergrid hybrids but what hybrid ship can really sustain many of those. Why give caldari really huge hybrids and allow them to use lots of missles and lots of EW equip.
Not terribly much difference then Ravens using 2 tachs and 6 h-50s now, since the bonus is to range. The real losers are the Megathron and Domi, since they aren't like Caldari and they can't fill their high slots with launchers. Essentially they are screwed since they are stuck with 425s if they want to get the damage bonus.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.10.28 02:14:00 -
[35]
IMO i think it would be a better balance if they raised the powergrid req on 425s to 3250 and gave some love to the damage mod and mabye tracking speed.
and that is my $0.02.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Javi
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Posted - 2003.10.28 02:55:00 -
[36]
Quote:
IMO i think it would be a better balance if they raised the powergrid req on 425s to 3250 and gave some love to the damage mod and mabye tracking speed.
and that is my $0.02.
very agreeable btw i wouldn't mind it's grid requirement being 3000 flat since megathrons have 3k less base pwr grid on them compared to apocs.
gg xander, i think i'm about to have a crush on j00.
--
"well..."
-Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat |
Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.10.28 03:57:00 -
[37]
Just remember to let some of us carbide guys in on the fun when Biomass tries to sack Fountain like they did Venal and EVOL has to beat them down.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Javi
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Posted - 2003.10.28 04:21:00 -
[38]
who's Biomass?
--
"well..."
-Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat |
Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.10.28 04:42:00 -
[39]
LOL.
and in case you weren't kidding:
click here
make sure you check out Archains Video on second page, its baddass.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Javi
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Posted - 2003.10.28 05:22:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Dear BioMass, you have tried before with EVOL and failed, first, Obe, then, Curse, then Venal, but do say the word, and we will be happy to assist in your destruction.
But, since you seem to have grown a pair after getting some success, i suppose you dont know whats good for you.
SirMolle
oh them? 
--
"well..."
-Estarriol, Evolution AZN Calculat |
Zena
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Posted - 2003.10.28 06:15:00 -
[41]
I have to agree with most, and especially with blonde. I understand your point, but it just isn't valid to me because I have played the game with the following in mind. "The Megathron is one of the most feared battleships in Eve". That is hardly true, but it is taken directly from an eve publication. Its the whole reason my charecter is Gallente.
Also, and probably of more note worthy discussion then my soap-box statement above, is yes perhaps with really good skills a Megathron pilot could be taken seriously, but the same "doesn't have to be" true with the other ships. And that is the biggest unbalanced part imho.
"Eat Worms Dirtbag" |
Hanns
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Posted - 2003.10.28 08:16:00 -
[42]
Most caldari dont use 425's coz there crap (250 protos can hit harder!), and neutrons have stupidly short range,
but do you know why i dont care?
coz most real caldari fighters use torps or cruise missiles!
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ElRodeo
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Posted - 2003.10.28 10:46:00 -
[43]
i guess its all on personal opinion and your favourite setup, thanks for a cool debate people. its been fun. and good luck with the ganking
ElRodeo
May the Blood of the Innocent and the Righteous Cleanse me of my Demons.
May Any God you Choose to Worship Have Mercy Upon Your Soul
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Lartfor
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Posted - 2003.10.28 11:13:00 -
[44]
To see that the 425 is borked, compare it to a mega beam, not a tach. Also you need to relise that crystals do more dmg at longer range than ammo does.
So take a mega beam with a dmg mod of 2.75 and a rof of 9, now compare that to a 425mm with dmg mod of 2.5 and rof 9. Both of these weapons have similar range, but the mega beam not only has a higher dmg mod, it has much better tracking. And it uses crystals thus giving it a range advantage for more dmg than the 425 will ever do.
Ok 425mm rail does not take much to equipt, i understand that. My sugestions: Dmg mod of 3. Or add a whole new line of rails, something like a 500mm, with similar range to the 425 but close to the same stats as a tach.
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Babar
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Posted - 2003.10.28 15:00:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Babar on 28/10/2003 15:29:49
Quote:
So take a mega beam with a dmg mod of 2.75 and a rof of 9, now compare that to a 425mm with dmg mod of 2.5 and rof 9. Both of these weapons have similar range, but the mega beam not only has a higher dmg mod, it has much better tracking.
You're not accounting for race skill bonuses.
With Gallente pilot skill lvl2 the dmg mod of a 425mm is 2.75 as well, and there's ample room for improvement (2.5 * 1.25 = 3.125 base damage mod). 425mm may track a little worse, but it hits harder. There's no damage bonus for lasers.
Actually, let's compare it to the tachyon..
dmg.mod / rof
425mm: 3.125 / 9 = 0.3472
tach : 4.25 / 12.5 = 0.3400
..and tachs eat a lot more cap than the 425mm.
Lasers have an advantage for npc-hunting, as you don't have the nuisance that is ammo. (Wouldn't mind large ammo sizes being decreased even more, btw, as it's supposedly a problem..)
For anything else, you're best off with whatever turrets you have a ship bonus for - or projectiles.
Quote:
And it uses crystals thus giving it a range advantage for more dmg than the 425 will ever do.
lol
Quote:
Ok 425mm rail does not take much to equipt, i understand that. My sugestions: Dmg mod of 3. Or add a whole new line of rails, something like a 500mm, with similar range to the 425 but close to the same stats as a tach.
Fitting reqs for hybrids match the ships you're supposed to use them on pretty well..?
And i think the 425mm match tachyons decently as well (but why would anyone use tachs in the first place?)..
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