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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |

Obidiah Kane
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
0
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:08:38 -
[61] - Quote
This looks great - I tried to get my little gaming clan to join up last year; two stayed, three bailed on 21 days, all middle aged hardcore gamers...I will try and get one of the three to run through this new set up once its released - just from the screenies I get a better feel of the game trying to engage me.
The unique structures are great too, no matter how many times I said 'but it's space..it's like that', the 'it all looks the same' was repeated endlessly from my friends - until the dynamic and game play grab you, having impressive or pretty things to look at is crucial.
Looking forward to seeing it live. |

Alain Colcer
Agiolet Security and Logistics
128
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:12:07 -
[62] - Quote
As a recruiter in a corp, i would like to know if the new player has completed a sub-group of opportunities...and start from there.
Will that be taken into account? would be nice for it to be shown in the character screen. |

Tarpedo
Incursionista
1483
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:12:19 -
[63] - Quote
This is nice but could be even better if "old player experience" had open-end missions too ("kill any 10 NPCs in asteroid belts", "visit 3 landmarks", "do 3 missions for a fleet", "pop 5 player ships", "get killmails for 100 million isk", etc.) |

Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
128
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:38:58 -
[64] - Quote
Forget the drones. It's because you're not starting them off with strippers! I'm tellin ya, it's all about the strippers!
But otherwise, it does look like a very interesting direction for NPE and I will certainly be interested in having a look and watching this develop further. |

Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1109
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:43:17 -
[65] - Quote
Obidiah Kane wrote:This looks great - I tried to get my little gaming clan to join up last year; two stayed, three bailed on 21 days, all middle aged hardcore gamers...I will try and get one of the three to run through this new set up once its released - just from the screenies I get a better feel of the game trying to engage me.
The unique structures are great too, no matter how many times I said 'but it's space..it's like that', the 'it all looks the same' was repeated endlessly from my friends - until the dynamic and game play grab you, having impressive or pretty things to look at is crucial.
Looking forward to seeing it live.
Care to share their reasons for leaving?
As for rewards for opportunities, why not LP? Starter corps have LP stores. Ex: University of Caille has +1 implants for 750LP and 750k isk. They can choose what they want and either plug it in or sell it for more. Although, that might push them into missions.
Some SP might be better. But it would need to be limited or you'll get people farming SP. This however, would serve as an excellent lead-in for teaching about the skill queue.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Sam Spock
The Scope Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:54:21 -
[66] - Quote
You could add some of the skill books that the current tutorials give you to the drops in the new landmark sites. Speaking as someone who enjoys finding things I would go "what's that do" and jump in and check it out.
For people who want to use newbies in rookie ships to do tackle and stuff would the civilian warp disruptor and stasis web be good enough? If they drop from the landmark sites then the newbies will have them.
From what I recall the rookie ships also have a 5m3 drone bay. Velators at dawn here we come!
Here is a crazy idea: add a rookie ship only deadspace pocket to the starter systems that allows combat without concord getting in the way and put that as one of the opportunities.
Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
205
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Posted - 2015.02.19 18:59:39 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on. This looks incredibly similar to my list. Can go a lot further though as well. Look at wingspantt's: Broadcast a chat message in w-space Lot of options for us going forward :)
Followed closely by "Complete your first out of pod experience" I welcome my new local chatting newbie overlords |

Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
215
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:04:43 -
[68] - Quote
These are excellent news!
I really like the non-linear approach and the fact of starting in a ship heading straight in space to a specific location that spawned just for you (I hope I understood correctly that each new player will have there anomaly spawning in the starter system when they first log in...)
I would recommend that probing be prohibited in starter systems though, by simply removing the ability to laucnh probes there. This would make sure nobody can mess with them as they figure out the first steps of a hopefully long and productive life in New Eden.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Abby Silverwind
Demonic Retribution
5
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:11:58 -
[69] - Quote
Looks great. Some of the best changes to the NPE in the last 10 years. Love that it moves away from the mission based system which pushes new players into L1 missions. Hopfully the these will eventully include intoductions to pvp and other experiance's that are not covered by the current system.
<3 Abbs'
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
Your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5865
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:12:16 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!
Everyone wants to have their own minions of death!
Seriously though, it could be that it feels like a 'pet class' from other MMOs, and that strengthens the feeling that you're not alone in this cold harsh world and that at least someone will help you kill those nasty NPC redplusses. Soloing is traditionally easier for pet classes, and until one finds the right corp or social group, soloing is the way forward.
Perhaps the NPE should put more emphasis on drones... and tell players about the wonderfulness of the Ishtar that they should be training for... 
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Memphis Baas
171
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:18:03 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Our minds are still very open on rewards, we just need to see how things work without them and build from there. Some form of reward structure would have to be tailored to the experience the Opportunities framework provides.
In my opinion, skill books are excellent as newbie rewards. Newbies need a lot of skills so books are valuable to them, whereas veterans already have the skills so the core books are pretty much worthless to them.
Also: The user interface you have for these Opportunities, once the newbies are done with the NPE, they'll probably expect those user interface elements to continue throughout the game. Which may not be the case. |

Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
104
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:27:55 -
[72] - Quote
Good job CCP. Looking great so far.
Only two things, i'd like to mention.
1. Please don't spam new players with achievements/trophies. Don't treat players like stupid monkeys ("You pressed the right button! Good job! You unlocked bla bla...) like many other games do.
2. You want to give as little as possible guidance and let the player discover the game.
Quote:we need to use testing to find out exactly how little explanation we can get away with Fair enough. But i see a lot of potential for frustration, if you don't give the player enough information about the task.
For example: "Mine X m3 of ice in nullsec" If i was a new player, i'd for sure want someone to tell me, that there are gate camps and bubbles along the way, what warp scrams are, etc. (You know, all the stuff that will get you killed) BEFORE i take my new retriever, which i spent most of my hard earned ISK on, on a suicide mission into null. Instead of just "Go to Null, find Ice Belt, press F1".
But anyway, i think this is a first step in the right direction. Good luck and keep it up!
PS: Just out of curiosity, do you have any numbers for us, on how many players actually stick to the game? Maybe a percentage of trails upgrading to full accounts? |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3182
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:42:42 -
[73] - Quote
it could be a good replacement for the tutorials but don't think it should go further than that. "Killing a drifter" achievements will open a can of worms i am not sure you want to open. I already can see the "eve play through in 40 days" yt vids.
Let players create rulesets for other players to solve. Try to innovate instead of copying things form other games. Achievements are for GTA but not for player driven sandboxes.
again: great as tutorial replacement but PLEASE don't go too far.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
31
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:02:01 -
[74] - Quote
This looks good. Make sure it includes some cooperative activities. Here are some suggested tasks:
Fleet Activities: 1. Join a fleet. 2. Give or receive boosts. 3. Take squad/wing/fleet warp. 4. Broadcast 'enemy spotted'. 5. Activate a fleet assistance module (armor rep, remote sebo, etc)
PVP basics: 1. Get 'suspect' status. 2. Get somebody to shoot you. 3. Shoot a weapon or use an offensive module. 4. View your kill or loss report. 5. Type "gf" or ASCII art in local.
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Givi Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:08:49 -
[75] - Quote
Unlike a lot of the players posting here, I'm an actual new player. I have to say that I find this change a bit confusing.
First off, EVE is very difficult to get started in with other players. The mechanics are just that and learning them is just like learning any other game. EVE is by far the most difficult game I've ever seen when it comes to socializing though since the level of distrust and disdain for new players is so high. Even reading these replies feels a bit like "What will the peasants be doing this year?". I am aware that it isn't the intent to be like that, but yeah.
Because socializing is actually difficult, I'm not sure how moving new players even further away from the game population is helpful. The missions are boring but they get the job done and it's the best way to get he skills and ships needed to actually attempt playing this game. I'm not clear on how removing access to the game itself is an "opportunity".
If you want a better new player experience, why not have some more variety in the missions instead of looping 5 missions until you stop logging in due to boredom?
What if the Corporation Finder was improved so instead of sitting in a station running skill sheets we might actually get into the game? The only reason the Corp Finder is only one step away from an RNG mechanic that provides almost no information to shop for potential groups to join. To be honest, Dotlan does a better job than the Corp Finder. Don't even get me started on the recruitment forum.
How about a tool like EFT, but in-game so we can actually see what the items do and learn how to put fits together without losing what little money we have or squandering SP on skills it turns out we didn't need yet? That would be enormously useful.
What if the overview DIDN'T need to be unf*@ked? What if it came out of the shoot ready to go so we could tell if we are looking at an actual hostile player or not? Some might consider that useful information.
We need to be able to get INTO the game, not moved further away with fewer rewards and less money. We actually NEED those missions to get anything done since we need the money. We're boned on SP since there isn't a way to grind those. Actions really mean very little in EVE.
Maybe I'm doing this wrong, but I already treat all the starter missions and Epic Arch missions as "opportunities" that I either choose to do or not. I'm not really seeing a difference in that regard. For instance, you can forget thinking that I'm going to be running all over the universe doing that Sisters mission thing. That's like 30 or 50 missions isn't it? Not even once my friend. If you think I should do that you better have a bucket of plex at the end of THAT rainbow!
How many people actually finish all of a tutorial before they go and just start playing a game, no matter what game it may be? Very few I'm sure. I came for pew-pew, not a class.
In a weird way, this new player experience looks like running dailies in Guild Wars 2. I really would advise never, ever getting to that point in EVE. Daily quests are awful, awful, awful.
That was all very negative, so how about some positives? I think EVE is a good game, even with its' issues. All games have issues. The new player experience isn't all that bad until you try to move into another corporation. that would be the players who cause that, so I don't fault CCP at all on that. New players can play the entire game at lower levels quite quickly and that's good.I don't mind the training since at least it seems like I'm dong something in the game. It does seem odd that there is little reward for actually PLAYING the game though. The game is quite nice looking too, which is always a plus.
Feel free to unleash the hate (like you needed my permission). |

Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
31
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:16:04 -
[76] - Quote
Givi Oskold wrote:Because socializing is actually difficult, I'm not sure how moving new players even further away from the game population is helpful. The missions are boring but they get the job done and it's the best way to get he skills and ships needed to actually attempt playing this game. I'm not clear on how removing access to the game itself is an "opportunity".
Confirming that none of what you are saying makes any sense at all. It sounds like you think the boring tutorial missions are "the game", and that by getting players out into space exploring belts, stations, etc, and interacting with other players, that would be "removing access to the game itself". What?
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Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
77
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:16:06 -
[77] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:it could be a good replacement for the tutorials but don't think it should go further than that. "Killing a drifter" achievements will open a can of worms i am not sure you want to open. I already can see the "eve play through in 40 days" yt vids.
Let players create rulesets for other players to solve. Try to innovate instead of copying things form other games. Achievements are for GTA but not for player driven sandboxes.
again: great as tutorial replacement but PLEASE don't go too far.
I see nothing wrong with achievement awards/rewards. The right kind in the right amounts provide strong incentives and the gods know EVE's steep learning curve can sometimes require some incentive to stick with it.
What would REALLY be cool (once there is sufficient content in place) would be if players could could create one or more sharable Opportunities Sets that include a series of specific tasks. It would be even cooler if game mechanics gave a CEO or Directors a way to assign such a set to a character and then get notification when that character had completed the assignment, upon which we could then assign them a corp achievement medal. Thinking about megacorps like Brave Newbies, how nice would it be if the medal could be given automatically once requirements were completed (assuming the wallet contained the ISK to cover medal costs...maybe medal cost could be charged at the time of issuing an Opportunities Set assignment?). Just brainstorming ideas and how some things we have and do already could be more integrated with the NPE. Might even factor into new players wanting to join a player corp.
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Outlaw Insouciant
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Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
272
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:22:42 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Innominate wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I really want to highlight that one of the huge benefits of this system is to NOT drop people after a tutorial with no idea what to do next. What do you expect new players to do when they have finished the tutorial? For now, we expect most of them will go to the career agents. We make a direct hand off from our new system to the career agents in this release. Later on we want to have enough content in this system that we can have them investigating game systems for weeks just based on Opportunities.
Wait so this system isn't getting rid of the career agents? Because they are part of the problem in my opinion. There is WAY too much overlap with the career agents which is A. boring and B. confusing. I would include a bit of streamlining to the career agents as well if possible.
We don't need a military and advanced military agent. Just combine them and cut out the overlap. We don't need a business and industry agent that teach a lot of the same skills. Just condense it into one agent. And as an afterthought I would take away the Destroyer as a reward at the end of military training. I feel like this encourages new players to keep rushing ahead to the next big ship instead of learning how to use and skilling up the old one.
And I would definitely use this new system to push players into PvP while they are brand shiny new and don't have much to lose. The first thing that I see a lot of rookie help and NPC corps chat doing is warning people to stay away from low and null sec. The more time that passes without a player getting his feet wet the more he feels he has to lose. Maybe have some sort of starter wormhole areas that only new players in rookie ships can access where they have some PvP objectives with each other just to give people a taste. |

Grookshank
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
44
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Posted - 2015.02.19 20:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sorry, to be a negative Nancy, but it looks to me like this makes the same mistake as before: The tutorials, no matter how you improve their lining and interface only introduce new players to EVE as a single player mining, missioning and market game. It is not that the current tutorials already do that job decent. The problem is: there is zero player interaction in the tutorials and the opportunities look the same. |

Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1178
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Posted - 2015.02.19 21:22:16 -
[80] - Quote
I'm liking this a lot, especially if it starts to replace the hilariously terrible tutorial texts which just result in new players going "holy crap, please kill me now". One thing though, please also include more "naughty" achievements. It doesn't have to be anything substantial but at least it conveys to "the right type of new players" that there's some tricks and fun to be had in EVE. |
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1630
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Posted - 2015.02.19 21:28:36 -
[81] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:I like it. I can see a lot of potential with the system and look forward to seeing it in action.
I do think there needs to be some achievements associated with the more nefarious side of Eve. Things like losing a ship to Concord, gaining a suspect timer, gaining a criminal timer, be in a corp that declares a war, bumping the same ship multiple times in a given time frame, successfully suicide ganking someone, etc. Hell, come up with an opportunity for "doubling" someone's isk (I have no idea how that would work). Besides showing people that they can be evil bastards in Eve, it would also serve as a warning to a new player looking through opportunity tree that these things do exist and are considered valid gameplay.
Just my two cents.
Make another player write a griefing ticket about you because of something you did while following the rules :D
Build your empire !
Rent Space in Feythabolis and Omist
Contact me for details :)
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1456
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Posted - 2015.02.19 21:33:18 -
[82] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Everyone wants to have their own minions of death!
Seriously though, it could be that it feels like a 'pet class' from other MMOs, and that strengthens the feeling that you're not alone in this cold harsh world and that at least someone will help you kill those nasty NPC redplusses. Soloing is traditionally easier for pet classes, and until one finds the right corp or social group, soloing is the way forward.
We had a newbie who named all of his drones individually.
He finally stopped after the rat aggro change started killing them too frequently.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Galen Dnari
Damage Unlimited
18
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Posted - 2015.02.19 21:53:47 -
[83] - Quote
To me, the character "creation" process basically simulates growing up. You graduate from "university", and there you are out and about in New Eden. Things have changed over the years, though, so maybe I "remember" some things that are no longer true. Anyway, it seems to me that one of the choices in character creation is, or used to be, what your parents do or did for a living. That might affect starting skills a bit. Which school you choose to attend (military, trade, industrial) should also affect your starting skills. The bottom line though, to me, is this: every new "graduate" should have a skillset that reflects the school he attended and to some small extent, maybe, his parents' professions.
Every new graduate should be able to fly his racial rookie ship with at least level 1 mastery. Every new graduate should have at least level 1 mastery in the social skills. Every new miltary graduate should be able to fly at least one racial combat frigate with at least level 1 mastery. Perhaps he should be able to fly all of them with that mastery. Every new industrial school graduate should be able to fly a venture and his racial industrials with at least level 1 mastery. Every new trade school graduate should be able to fly his racial industrials with at least level 1 mastery, and have trade skills to level 1 mastery. There may be some appropriate tweaks to this: neural skills and thermodynamics come to mind.
Rookie ship and social skills would amount to 29,910 SPs, 1,335,000 ISK worth of skill books, and a bit over half a day's training for 29 skills. Adding all the frigate skills (the Military school path) brings it to 86,564 SPs, 2, 361,000 ISK for skill books, and a bit less than a day and a half training for 48 skills. You can see the skill plans here and here.
I don't know, maybe a new graduate already has most of these. I'm pretty sure he won't have all of them.
http://eveboard.com/ub/1939472205-31.png
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Memphis Baas
172
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Posted - 2015.02.19 22:08:26 -
[84] - Quote
This is a bit off-topic (thread is about the Opportunities system), but if you have broad general information that you wish to convey, such as for example that EVE Careers flowchart I saw on the internet, you could have sort of a "graduation" process after, before, or part of the character creator. "What careers are you interested in? Put a checkbox in anything that looks interesting below."
Because the Opportunities system seems very hands-on, "here are some goals, figure it out". It's not easy to convey a general guide about the game through that system. On the other hand, you could do a full screen gorgeous-concept-art-and-text brief interactive tutorial to follow the character creator, to give them a synopsis of the game before they "graduate", get shoved into the pod, and get thrown into the Ibis and left in space to figure things out. |

Severyn Talus
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.19 22:28:49 -
[85] - Quote
I really like the direction this is going, and look forward to trying the Opportunities system when it's released. I recently went through the current NPE with an alt, and having to read one wall-of-text after another wasn't a positive gameplay experience.
Speaking of drones, the Rookie ships do have a small drone bay. How about adding a Civilian Combat Drone alongside the Civilian Mining Drone?
Also, how about adding a small ore hold to the Rookie ships? That way the progression for a mining oriented player could be mine a holds worth of veld, buy two Miner I modules. Mine a few more holds worth of ore, and then have enough capital to invest in a Venture and a mining frigate skillbook. |

Erasmus Grant
Roid Traders Syndicate
16
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Posted - 2015.02.19 22:31:17 -
[86] - Quote
Now all you got to do is get your GMs do their jobs compensate you for time lost towards skillpoints lost when you have billing issues. |

Circumstantial Evidence
168
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Posted - 2015.02.19 22:38:08 -
[87] - Quote
Fostering player interaction is challenging: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. The NPE starts players in a system full of other players, and will quickly lead them to a landmark site where they will see other player ships. But the NPE also needs to expose players to basic game mechanics... which can be used for yourself, or with others.
But... Time to mine?!
I think it might be better for this "opportunity," to first describe the *benefit* rather than the *process* - which some players view as incredibly boring.
But then it gets complicated, and so I don't know if what I offer is a better way to organize it, because the benefits of mining depend on player goals: is it manufacturing (which can lead to usage of item, or ISK,) or direct ISK, through resale of minerals or ore?
I imagine CCP office whiteboards (and other surfaces) are covered with stuff that looks something like this:+ Making ISK |-Shoot red crosses |-Mine rocks, sell ore on market |-Market Trading: buy low, sell high |-Planetary Industry |-...etc
+ Making stuff |-Mine rocks, reprocess to minerals ||-OR Get minerals (by other methods) |-Get a BPC |=Use BPC + minerals to build something ||-Use it ||-Sell it The word "get" implies different ways things can be aquired, some less nice than others. I don't know how much CCP wants to be seen leading new players towards "less nice" methods.
About new player ship loss / ganks: I don't think its a problem for player retention in the first month, when you don't have much to lose, as it is after the second month.
You liked what you saw in the first month, and are building a character and isk, perhaps moving a bunch of stuff around, other players have been friendly to you. But out of nowhere, your overloaded hauler carrying more than 50% of your net worth, is taken out (in highsec) by "LoL" guy, who thanks you for the loot. That's the decision point, where some will say "screw this game, I'm not paying for another month of (mission/mining) grinding to get that stuff back." |

beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2015.02.19 23:04:28 -
[88] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:it could be a good replacement for the tutorials but don't think it should go further than that. "Killing a drifter" achievements will open a can of worms i am not sure you want to open. I already can see the "eve play through in 40 days" yt vids.
My instinct is to agree with this GÇô presenting new players with a set of arbitrary goals from above could potentially be very misleading.
On the other hand, difficult goals that a new player can't possibly accomplish by themselves (like killing a Drifter) are something that might get new players actually talking. Maybe they fleet up from their starter corp to find one and get massacred, maybe older players start leading Drifter-killing roams for newbies. It could be a great way to boost engagement.
Be careful though  |

Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4064
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Posted - 2015.02.19 23:24:43 -
[89] - Quote
What about the possibility of introducing daily, weekly, monthly (etc.) 'Opportunities' that scale up and result in more challenges for either sole or group play and reward players with SP bonuses? (not ISK or loot) You'd get more players actively logging in to complete 'Opportunities', and they'd also be undocking and roaming about.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4064
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Posted - 2015.02.19 23:25:50 -
[90] - Quote
What about the possibility of introducing daily, weekly, monthly (etc.) 'Opportunities' that scale up and result in more challenges for either sole or group play and reward players with SP bonuses? (not ISK or loot) You'd get more players actively logging in to complete 'Opportunities', and they'd also be undocking and roaming about.
Examples could include: GÇó Mine xx of Felspar [daily|weekly|monthly] GÇó Kill xx of NPC [frigates|cruisers|battleships] [daily|weekly|monthly] GÇó Salvage xx m3 or xx ISK of loot [daily|weekly|monthly] GÇó Travel to xx unexplored systems or wormholes [daily|weekly|monthly] GÇó Scan down xx anomalies [daily|weekly|monthly]
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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