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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
XeX Znndstrup Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2015.02.21 22:01:13 - [151] - Quote Old tutorials are not so bad. These ones and Opportunities new system could work together. Some players need to be coached with tutorials. Others will like freedom offered by the new system. Think about this before breaking current tutorials. After... Eve Online will always be a game that supposes some patience. New players who stay in the game are those who like what Eve proposes. I don't really think that current tutorials can explain why some don't stay more than 14 days. The only reason is they don't try to understand or try to be helped. Because they like more accessible and immediate games. You will never succeed in keeping players if they like Left 4 Dead game type. A new player has a lot of mean to understand this world : tutorials, GM, Rookies channel, Evelopedia, forums. If you want to take the time to understand, you have really a lot of informations for this. The problem is that it takes time to read or ask. But isn't this also the pleasure and the interest of this game ? "Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light". John Milton, Lost Paradise.
Sohl Ni-Zha Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative 30	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:20:39 - [152] - Quote 'That CCP executive producer we have now... Well I can only be sorry she isn't the prime minister of my country's government. delivering. drugs. -áIG channel: Narcotics
Fuzzanator Icarus Project 0	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:21:06 - [153] - Quote the Opportunities new system is great it will be even better if you add even more opportunities to it
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 380	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:48:40 - [154] - Quote Traiori wrote: Why not make opportunities give a small, almost negligible, amount of assignable SP? Maybe an hour or two of training at base rates, with the intent of ensuring that it totals under 48h total? Whilst SP traditionally comes from time only, the most frequent concern I hear from new players is that they don't have the skills for this or that, and that it takes time away from their training to pick up the basic required skills. Giving a nominal amount of SP as a reward for exploring the game would both provide them with a reimbursement for the new aspects that they're encouraged to try alongside allowing them to feel less of the "week one" training fatigue. Better still, offering 250k SP (or whatever) is a huge advantage to a new player with only 600k SP but is measurably less useful to current players with 60-100m+ SP. It wouldn't even be a tenth of most skills in my skillqueue at the minute, but would probably be the entirety of most of my friends new player account skillqueues. Some kind of training booster (ala cerb accelerator) would work equally well I suppose, offering 30-60 minutes of advanced training via drugs...but would be more useful to older players who would immediately start trying to buy the booster in vast quantities. You'd also have to tie rewards to the account I suppose, lest we all start using these rewards to generate gank alts in 250k SP training time less. I don't like the presedent this sets I also think it kind of works against your original goal. Yes new players feel like they don't have the skills that they need to be useful or effective but just handing them skill points would only exaggerate and reinforce that feeling. To get them beyond that you need to show them how quickly that level 1 skills train and how they can be useful right off the bat. Just giving them skill points to me sends the message that they are only as useful as the number of skill points that they have which is a mistaken conclusion that many of them come to anyway.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 380	Posted - 2015.02.22 15:49:50 - [155] - Quote I think this all sounds decent. I like the idea of getting missions out of the NPE. With the breadcrumb style questing that many of the WoW clones use to teach players and then lead them into dailies many players come to Eve from other (WoW like) MMOs with an expectation of something similar. So they do the tutorial missions then run level 1 missions and get bored by level 2 missions and then start wondering why they are playing this game. So getting missions completely out of the NPE I think is great. Missions need to be something that they come across on their own no different than any ofher "profession". Another problem that I see with a lot of converts from other MMOs is getting them over the concept of a level cap or BiS (Best in Slot) gear. Many of them feel that they can't PvP and won't be useful with out faction fit T2 Dreadnaughts. They have to be taught that bigger is not always better and more expensive is not usually ideal especially in PvP. So these new players wait on skill points and save up and build a pimped out ship that took them a month of doing level 2 missions to afford only to loose it with in 5 seconds of jumping into low sec for the first time. I can't even remember how many forum posts I've seen on this. Players wondering how anyone could even play this game when you have to grind missions for a month just to PvP for 5 seconds. On this next point keep in mind that I spend a bit of time on the New Player Q&A section of the forum so this might be something common only to the player type that goes there for answers. That being said I see a lot of players trying to "go it alone" and they think that they can solo eve. They go to the forum for help and shortly there after leave a rage post about how this game is not playable. This game needs to be played with friends and I think they need to get that idea in their head as soon as possible. With that in mind maybe we could have some type of group content in the new player areas.Something that forces new player to fleet up and help each other out or get help from vets or something like that to complete a specific goal. But ideally not content that is just too difficult for them and they need to be "carried" through. Continuing on the group efforts idea I think that there are some core game mechanics that could be changed to help new players. I throw these out there in the base idea state knowing that they need to be fine tuned and knowing that I am talking about core game mechanics here but listen with an open mind and try to see if these idea can be improved on and not just shoot them down. That being said let's move forward. So I think that either fleet boosts need to be moved from skill based to be fleet sized based or incorporate fleet size into the boost system. Either that or get rid of command ships and the associated boosts and make those boosts fleet sized based. The idea here would be that just being in fleet is a help to everyone else. It gets all players not only new players thinking more towards group dynamics and less towards solo game play. For mining boosts I've even had some ideas about ways that we could work this in with yield to create a more interesting and more group focused dynamic but I'll not divert down that path here. Burner missions I think were a good idea but I was thinking that they should be something more group focused. As they are now you can solo them with an expensive fit T2 or faction frig if you are nearly all level 5 skills. However if you want 2 people to do them both ships need to be expensive fit T2 or faction frigs with high skills. There might be a way to do these with cheap ships with 5 or more people but at lower group sizes they don't seem to scale. I'd love to use those as an excuse to get new players feeling useful in fleet. Burners are frigs only so it's something that they can fly and if they could help me do content that I either can not do alone or would be very difficult to do alone that would be great. Also for the health of the game in general but also to help new players if we could just start thinking of new game mechanics for PvE mostly (since PvP is already a "the more the merrier" situation) that incorporate group play. For example I can bring new players with me into level 4 missions or running higher level anoms in null or what ever we do for isk but I really just wind up splitting the bounties with them. From an isk stand point it's mostly me doing it just to have friends with but it would be nice if soloable content were somehow more beneficial to do in groups.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 380	Posted - 2015.02.22 16:02:08 - [156] - Quote Another idea that I have to help new players is the ability to make "all level 5" characters on SiSi. This I think would help new players in many ways. First off they could go on SiSi and get on their all level 5 character and PvP vets and see how the skill points don't make them a better player. Also this would allow them to try out various things and help envision the future or at least see what vets are talking about. Some examples of what I mean are that they could get in a dreadnaught or a titian and see for themselves that it's not an "end game" goal that they actually need or even want to plan for. Also they could try out different ships for example and see which path they want to go down on TQ. So they could try out all 4 Marauders would be one example and decide if they want to focus on missiles or projectiles or lazors or hybrids etc...
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3888	Posted - 2015.02.22 16:35:40 - [157] - Quote I'm posting this on request and on behalves of the character Dredd Lochness Munster as he as a new player can not post it here himself. The original post can be found here. ISD Ezwal. Trial, so can't comment in the official thread. I was never a fan of the "board your ship in space" tutorial. However, the new one leaves a TON to be desired. In the "kill a rat" opportunity, it should have them show info on the gun to see range. It starts them with 5K ISK. Then it tells them to buy "something" from the market. Maybe a hint to buy a unit of ammo or something else that is cheap. No mention of jumps, or that items don't move on their own? Finally, it tells them to buy a skill from the market, then inject it and train it. And yet, they now have less than 5K ISK. Off singularity, they are not going to be able to get skill books for 100 ISK. I hope this is a test of the opportunity mechanism, and NOT a test of the content. Mechanism A+++++++. Current content = D. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Acelin Verand Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.02.22 18:05:58 - [158] - Quote Ran through the "Opportunities" system today. I sincerely tried to approach my run-through as a completely objective, new player and I made a couple observations/notes along the way: - Camera zoomed in too closely on log-in... Perhaps touch on camera controls as you did in the current tutorial (03:Camera Movement)? - Did not really explain "Open Cargo" or that you must be within 2,500m... maybe intentional. - Fitting a module is not really explained at all... - For the market portion, perhaps provide a recommendation to a skill book that is appropriate and affordable for a new pilot? (Maybe Repair Systems?) - Pointing straight to the Career Agents is fine, however knowing how to get to them might be worth explaining. Keeping in mind the demographics and reputation of EVE, I agree that simplifying the NPE is a correct decision. I understand and appreciate the challenge of balancing a "hand-holding" methodology against a completely free one, however I would argue that a game like EVE should lean towards hand-holding through the most critical aspects of the gameplay. At least until the new player/pilot can be reasonably expected to figure it out on their own. Thank you for your efforts and thanks for the "opportunity" (cheesy, I know) to provide input.
Salpun Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects 827	Posted - 2015.02.22 18:42:12 - [159] - Quote This new system is begging for a ISIS style skills and career visualizations to complement it. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide See you around the universe.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 30408	Posted - 2015.02.23 16:03:05 - [160] - Quote correction: Hexagons. not pentagons. They still seem after-the-fact. Gamers dislike tutorials because it implies the fun stuff is still not happening (so it's good to not call them tutorials). I still think they should be called achievements. A familiarity thing. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.

Sly Visionz Calibrated Chaos Dead Terrorists 0	Posted - 2015.02.24 09:09:27 - [161] - Quote Is there any way to include the ability to easily join channels, whenever the tutorial is complete, that allow relatively near instant content to anyone? specifically new players of course. Like spectre fleet, RvB ganked, and some of the newer player friendly incursion groups? It took me about a year and a half of playing before I learned about the highly active npsi groups and incursion channels of that day. Hopefully we can speed up that as I've heard it is a similar time frame for the few I've asked. NPSI fleets are so dang fun and I always fall back on them when I'm bored. If I'd have known about them when I was new I wouldn't have been mining for my beginning 6 months.
Reiisha 708	Posted - 2015.02.25 08:07:41 - [162] - Quote Suggestion: Add goals to the tutorial that cannot (easily) be reached. For example: Hunt a certain player, visit a certain nullsec system to pick up an item, kill a battleship - Whatever. Leave it to the player to find a way to actually do it and simply give hints, not instructions. The current NPE is far too focused on handholding. It needs to make suggestions, not give orders. Adding the above things (at random and very few, maybe just one) gets new players to think more along the lines EVE demands. If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Dratholon Pak Kabala Incorporated 0	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:57:27 - [163] - Quote To give players both a sense of what they can really do in game and rewards that help them build the ISK and ships needed to get going, would you consider offering a mercenary opportunity set that actually mimicked the mechanics of searching for and accepting an actual mercenary contract? Likewise an opportunity that led a player through the incursion mechanics (still confusing to me) that had substantial ISK rewards like they do in the game. A wormhole living opportunity, or PI, or moon mining or POCO bashing, or Refining/compressing at a POS. These are some things that were tantalizing to me as a new player, but I had no way to figure out if I wanted to invest in the skill points to actually do them effectively and some are so expensive that I had to wait until I found a corp to join that had the resources to let me try them out. What good are the research skills? Oh... yeah, if I want to make a shiny ship or lots of ISK, that would help. Now I see... These Ah-HA! moments are cool! How can we build a taste of them in the NPE Opportunity system without making it WOW easy and keep an authentic experience of the actual game mechanics?
BeanBagKing The Order of Atlas 314	Posted - 2015.02.25 14:16:49 - [164] - Quote With the downtime I finally got around to trying these on SISI. Some opportunities had already been completed, I'm not sure how these were chosen. For example, in Time To Fight, the "Destroy your target" was completed. Now, I've obviously killed rats in my past, so this kind of makes sense. However, I've also orbited, locked, and activated my weapons on rats as well. So why weren't these checked? I'm torn between not awarding a completion to an opportunity unless the opportunity window is open, so a new player has an understanding of what they are accomplishing, and awarding them automatically as soon as it is completed. The first gives them a clear understanding of what they are doing, but could be tedious to do a bunch of stuff they've already done. The second may not make some things clear, why they've accomplished one thing and not others, or something they've accomplished completely by accident as new players fumbling with buttons. Edit: The more I think about this, the more I think opportunities should -not- be completed unless that window/step is up. It provides very clear feedback that "You've done the thing!". I just docked, unloaded some cargo, and checked off the "Move items from Cargo to Hanger". Now, I know what I've done, but there wasn't really any feedback from a new players perspective that "I've done the thing that completed the task!" because that opportunity wasn't up. I can see noobs clicking buttons, completing tasks, and not having any clue why. Or, if left as is, I would love to be able to right click on an Opportunity in the Map and click "Reset all" to zero my progress in that area. This way if a new player does complete things and doesn't understand why, they can reset the tutorial and start fresh. Under "Lets Get Moving" I would suggest adding an additional "Align to an Object". While both are very similar and use a similar icon, aligning is probably used more in fleet combat and new players need to know that one is off grid. Under "Time to Fight" - "Grab the Loot" the first wreak I looted didn't have loot in it. I can see a very confused noob wondering what's going on. Perhaps change the icon description to "Icon for wreaks with loot" and consider adding an empty wreak icon below that with "Icon for empty wreaks" Under "Time To Mine" - "Orbit an Asteroid", my understanding from my carebear friends is that orbiting is bad. You want to sit at an optimal location to mine as many asteroids as possible so you don't have to constantly readjust your position. I was going to say use this as an opportunity to use "Keep at range", but why can't I keep an astroid at range? Combine "Faster Than Light" and "To The Stars". They just seem semi related under some title like "interstellar travel", and it feels a little silly to have two categories with only 1 item under each.
ShadowNeo29 O.S.E.F A.A.A.A.A 15	Posted - 2015.02.25 14:33:14 - [165] - Quote You should begin to stop ban old players unfairly before doing something for new players. We are tired of corrupted GMs.
Huren Ogeko Huren Ogeko Corporation 2	Posted - 2015.02.25 17:00:07 - [166] - Quote not sure if anyone reported this or if this where bugs should be reported but because of the extended downtime being extended today I was playing around on the test server and noticed a bug in how opportunities work. I was flying a minmatar talwar with missile fit when I was given the "time to fight" opportunity. It seems since I am minmatar char the opportunities system assumed I was going to use a projectile weapon and refused to complete the "activate weapons" objective when i shot at belt rats using missiles. I was able to get check marks on every other part of it but that. I went back to station and grabbed a noob ship and got completion when activating the civilian gun without problem. overall I much like the new system over the old never ending wall of aura text of the old system. you have a +1 +1 +100 from me even though I am not all that new.
Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 751	Posted - 2015.02.26 13:36:00 - [167] - Quote According to this, TQ now has the new opportunities for some players. I don't, for neither of my accounts. Is that just me having bad luck or did I miss the checkbox to enable it (did'nt find any) - or are opportunities not live on TQ yet. EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Handbuch GÇó Colortags/Timer

CCP Wideo C C P C C P Alliance 4	Posted - 2015.02.26 13:43:15 - [168] - Quote Darkblad wrote: According to this, TQ now has the new opportunities for some players. I don't, for neither of my accounts. Is that just me having bad luck or did I miss the checkbox to enable it (did'nt find any) - or are opportunities not live on TQ yet. For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid.

Darkblad Hilf Dir selbst in EVE 751	Posted - 2015.02.26 13:54:14 - [169] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: Darkblad wrote: According to this, TQ now has the new opportunities for some players. I don't, for neither of my accounts. Is that just me having bad luck or did I miss the checkbox to enable it (did'nt find any) - or are opportunities not live on TQ yet. For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. Thanks for your quick response! It appears like that really is for new accounts only. EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Handbuch GÇó Colortags/Timer
Quintessen Messengers of Judah 473	Posted - 2015.02.26 22:40:45 - [170] - Quote I like some of the core concepts of this, but it still makes a lot of assumptions about what people know. Click and hold for the radial button isn't mentioned anywhere and click-and-hold isn't something a lot of players are going to try so you're going to throw them towards the right click menu by default. Little-to-no context is provided for players in how an object can be interacted with in the game. EVE still needs to do a much better job of this. For other successful, open world game, they usually do a very good job of making it clear what can be interacted with and how. The other issue that this still seems to have is that EVE tends to punish those who explore more often than it rewards them. See something in the far distance you want to investigate, head there and more often than not you're going to die. There needs to be a way that young players can manage their difficulty besides going to websites. The game needs to do a better job of saying you have at least some chance of succeeding at this opportunity. There's lots of risk in EVE, which is fine, but very few ways of measuring that risk within the client itself. The concepts core to turret, missile and drone weaponry aren't discussed at all. You start off in a ship and press your attack button, but nothing explains to the user why they aren't hitting. Also there's a timing issue with the loot button. If kill and enemy you will stop orbiting them, but since you're under 2500 meters you can click-to-loot their wreck. The problem is you're going to quickly fly off and no longer be in range so after you've hovered over each piece of loot and say loot all, you're now too far away from the wreck and clicking on it won't help. [An ancillary suggestion here is if you were orbiting something when it dies you should continue orbiting its wreck or the spot where the object was last.] Please send this to a focus group of people who have never played EVE and see how they do. This is too important to get wrong.

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 30616	Posted - 2015.02.26 23:46:52 - [171] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: Darkblad wrote: According to this, TQ now has the new opportunities for some players. I don't, for neither of my accounts. Is that just me having bad luck or did I miss the checkbox to enable it (did'nt find any) - or are opportunities not live on TQ yet. For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. Bravo, bravo. I like the thinking behind it. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Pretty Pony Princess Princess Club 6	Posted - 2015.02.27 12:56:57 - [172] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. Will there, in the future, be an option for existing characters to try them out on TQ? Just like the tutorials can be redone.

CCP Wideo C C P C C P Alliance 5	Posted - 2015.02.27 13:56:47 - [173] - Quote Pretty Pony Princess wrote: CCP Wideo wrote: For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. Will there, in the future, be an option for existing characters to try them out on TQ? Just like the tutorials can be redone. This is still in discussion. We'll see how the current A/B test goes and then go from there.

Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3169	Posted - 2015.02.27 14:49:27 - [174] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: Pretty Pony Princess wrote: CCP Wideo wrote: For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. Will there, in the future, be an option for existing characters to try them out on TQ? Just like the tutorials can be redone. This is still in discussion. We'll see how the current A/B test goes and then go from there. When I was on Sisi, it was active for me, and I am an existing player. I feel they should be active for existing players in some form. My sister is an occasional player, and sort of needs a refreasher these days. I'm sure others get into the same situation. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction

CCP Wideo C C P C C P Alliance 5	Posted - 2015.02.27 16:34:28 - [175] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: CCP Wideo wrote: Pretty Pony Princess wrote: CCP Wideo wrote: For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. Will there, in the future, be an option for existing characters to try them out on TQ? Just like the tutorials can be redone. This is still in discussion. We'll see how the current A/B test goes and then go from there. When I was on Sisi, it was active for me, and I am an existing player. I feel they should be active for existing players in some form. My sister is an occasional player, and sort of needs a refreasher these days. I'm sure others get into the same situation. A valid point, I'm glad you found it useful enough to want your sister to see it too. For now however we're focusing on seeing how well the opportunities work for new players before we develop the system further. On singularity is was turned on for everyone so we could get feedback and so helpful older users would be able to support the noobs. She should still have access to the old tutorials if she needs a refresher.

Noriko Mai 2085	Posted - 2015.02.27 17:03:00 - [176] - Quote While I like the new Opportunities, I'm missing an option to reset them. And with this being another new beta feature, are you going to fix at least some of the issues with the notification system (still in beta mode)? I assume it's the same team, it's NPE too. Come On Everybody, support Dark Opaque theme

CCP Wideo C C P C C P Alliance 5	Posted - 2015.02.27 17:23:53 - [177] - Quote Noriko Mai wrote: While I like the new Opportunities, I'm missing an option to reset them. And with this being another new beta feature, are you going to fix at least some of the issues with the notification system (still in beta mode)? I assume it's the same team, it's NPE too. We have bug fixes going in all the time, but if there are any bugs still bothering you (pun narrowly avoided) submit a bug report using the help menu in game and we'll get to them as soon as we can. :)

Archibald Thistlewaite III The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners 707	Posted - 2015.02.27 18:01:56 - [178] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. This is making Rookie Help difficult. Some new players are struggling with opportunities and the older players in there don't know what they are on about. The other half doing the tutorials can't help either.
Noriko Mai 2087	Posted - 2015.02.28 02:51:53 - [179] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: Noriko Mai wrote: While I like the new Opportunities, I'm missing an option to reset them. And with this being another new beta feature, are you going to fix at least some of the issues with the notification system (still in beta mode)? I assume it's the same team, it's NPE too. We have bug fixes going in all the time, but if there are any bugs still bothering you (pun narrowly avoided) submit a bug report using the help menu in game and we'll get to them as soon as we can. :) LOL. My bug reports are ignored for about 3 mothths now. So why should I even bother... Fix your ****. I don't care anymore... Come On Everybody, support Dark Opaque theme
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1785	Posted - 2015.02.28 07:06:40 - [180] - Quote CCP Wideo wrote: Darkblad wrote: According to this, TQ now has the new opportunities for some players. I don't, for neither of my accounts. Is that just me having bad luck or did I miss the checkbox to enable it (did'nt find any) - or are opportunities not live on TQ yet. For now they're only visible for 50% of new users, so existing users won't see them I'm afraid. I take it this is to see whether there is an improvement in new player retention between the groups. You could have broadened it beyond 50% and still had a statistically significant study, you know :) I hope you share the results in a few months. It would be fascinating to see. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.



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