EVE Search - What's the justification for Learning Skills again?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Skill Discussions

What's the justification for Learning Skills again?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Dannek Llama F5 and Associates	Posted - 2006.10.12 03:43:00 - [1] Agh! Please, put down your flamethrowers, I am t3h n00b! But seriously, I'm not sure I understand why the Learning skills exist. I mean, I understand that they let you learn other skills faster (which is nice), but why was the decision originally made to include them? Is the differentiation in base skill attributes really that important in the long run of any character that the learning skills don't just serve as a timesink? Couldn't the specialization at character birth just be limited to skills that you picked out? I ask, because I sit here, learning up the Learning skills and I wonder "Why couldn't I be learning new and fun ways of killing people instead? What's the point of paying the time-tax to the Learning Revenue Service?" What was the original motivation for them? -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time.
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.10.12 04:04:00 - [2] I would guess to help train the really big skills faster (i.e. spend 6 months training carrier, or 1 month doing learning and 4 months doing carrier, for 5 months total (not to scale)) But yes, learning skills suck.
Inen Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.10.12 04:27:00 - [3] Originally by: Dannek Agh! Please, put down your flamethrowers, I am t3h n00b! But seriously, I'm not sure I understand why the Learning skills exist. I mean, I understand that they let you learn other skills faster (which is nice), but why was the decision originally made to include them? Is the differentiation in base skill attributes really that important in the long run of any character that the learning skills don't just serve as a timesink? Couldn't the specialization at character birth just be limited to skills that you picked out? I ask, because I sit here, learning up the Learning skills and I wonder "Why couldn't I be learning new and fun ways of killing people instead? What's the point of paying the time-tax to the Learning Revenue Service?" What was the original motivation for them? It is frusturating, and it sucks learning the skills at first. I know many people say, well do not do the learning skills first but I myself could not help but do them first. HOWEVER, it did not stop me from learning a "few" skills to let me do some missions or ratting to pass the time. I suggest maybe picking up a few fun skills to pass the time as well.
Ikarushka A.O.U. Corp	Posted - 2006.10.12 05:34:00 - [4] if you don't see the point to learn them, then don't learn them... you don't have to do anything you don't see fit for your character
Kelgen Thann SUBLIME L.L.C. Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.10.12 06:11:00 - [5] The learning skills exist for one reason. Investment. You can learn fun and interesting skills, or invest in your character for the long run. You choose, Everything has a cost, not learning the skills means you learn more fun stuff at the start but slower in the long run. the cost of training learning skills is you have time not used on fun skills. Train them to level 3, then raise them as the skills you train over night or over a weekend or vacation etc.
Ryblan	Posted - 2006.10.12 06:22:00 - [6] Just started an alt myself. Now, I currently have all my advanced learning skills up to 4 (2 long months of waiting), so I've seen the difference. That little bit of training means I train not twice as fast, but about 3 times as fast on my main than the n00b alt. Take the time to learn the basic learning skills to 3 or 4 at least. You'll make up the time on your first rank 3 skill, it's nearly guaranteed. As for justification for the learning skills, I'd say the single best reason for them? Learn twice as fast.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.12 06:41:00 - [7] To waste your money playing longer. No but seriously, I don't think theres any justification for learning skills at all. If they wanted to make skill learning reasonable, they wouldn't have made it take so long in the first place. A week to train this, a month to train that. Then they add adv learning to turn the monthlong skill into 3 weeks, but the adv learning takes a week and a half. Well since you invested in the adv learning, you have to play the game a long time, otherwise its a waste of cash, there ya go a long term subscriber. Even if you quit the game you'll still keep training and come back someday, it would be a sin to waste the character training.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.12 08:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Dannek I ask, because I sit here, learning up the Learning skills and I wonder "Why couldn't I be learning new and fun ways of killing people instead? What's the point of paying the time-tax to the Learning Revenue Service?" A lot of random clueless people tell new players to train learning skills first, because it will reduce their training time on big skills by two days when theyre two years old. This is the worst piece of advice one can possibly give out. Instead, completely ignore learning skills for the first month in eve. Train the skills you need to run missions, mine, kill people, build stuff. After you first month, start training learning skills. After two or three months its time to start thinking off advanced learning skills, you should now be at a point where you can play the game reasonably and arent waiting for crucial skills to complete. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:34:00 - [9] Training the basic learning skills all to lvl 2 takes a matter of hours, and gives a nice boost, even to a noobie. I always suggest going from 0-2, then train all the frig, gunnery, prop jamming, navigation etc up a bit. Once they decide they'll be comfortable getting into a cruiser, train the learnings to 3, and maybe int/per skills to 4. Lvl 5 learnings should only really be considered when they're considering bs level skills or t2 ships. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy
KillerOfMacros	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:12:00 - [10] I'm in the camp of the last poster, get your learning skills to level 2, then train all the cool stuff. I also recommend that you train all the weapon support skills to 2 as well, in missiles a nice little 20% speed + 20% time give you the ability to use missiles more effectively right off the bat. It's also better to have bombardment to 2 and projection to 2 then to have either to 3 and the other to 0 for the same (actually I think the level 3 takes longer) training time.

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:27:00 - [11] Learing skills are nice to have, but having fun is nicer. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Majutsu S.Y.N.D	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:15:00 - [12] Getting all the basic skills to L4 can be done in not much more than a week, I did this almost immediately and saw training times more than half, those that would have taken 30 mins then took 12 mins, those that were over a day were not much more than half a day. I think that initial investment has been well worth it, however I've just spent 6 days doing learning V and seen little return so for now I'm going to cool off it again. Doing 2 months of just learning skills before doing anything else is madness tho IMO, the game is supposed to be fun, got to have some along the way.
Dannek Llama F5 and Associates	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:35:00 - [13] Well, I've been playing for a month and gotten a number of skills to somewhat decent levels (not everything's up to 3 yet, but a number are). I've got a Cruiser now and am working on saving up for a Battleship. I do intend to play for quite a while so I understand that it's an "investment" if you will, but it's just not an investment that fits with any reward schedule that seems reasonable. If the attributes had some effect on your combat ability or anything else, I could feel like I was getting something back immediately for this all, but I'm not, so blah. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time.
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:17:00 - [14] Like other people have said -- you don't have to train Learning skills. Hell, you don't have to train your races skills. When it comes right down to it -- you have the choice to not train skills at all. For people who don't like learning, I would say invest a few days in getting basics up to 3. When you can do level 3 missions with some ease, that is the time to finish training advanced learning to 4. I'm insane and have already taken 1 adv. learning to 5, and some day I will return to learning and train another, but at 15 days per level 5, I don't have the patience, either, to train them all one-after-the-other. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.13 02:17:00 - [15] I think most of you are missing the OP's point, he said what the 'original motivation' was behind having the learning skills in the game as opposed to just increasing everyone's SP gain by 2.5x or whatever the number is. Cipher pretty much said the exact reason why, being just to hook people on the game for long term play/planning, which results in more suscriber fees going to CCP.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.13 03:39:00 - [16] - Before learning skills I couls gain a mox of around 800k SP per 28 days. - After I spent those brutal two months doing the adv learning skills to level 4 I'm gaining 1.5M SP per 28 days. That means T2 large guns in almost half the time. Choise is yours. Don't like the learning skills then don't train them Nobody is holding a gun to your head on that. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Rilder Caldari black viper corp	Posted - 2006.10.13 12:10:00 - [17] My corp mates have told me and I agree with them, get up to a point where you enjoy the game and dont really need anything for awhile then train learning
Vizgoth	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:42:00 - [18] I started out with 2 accounts. Started them both on the same day. Main account I started getting good skills right away and waited on learning. I just did learning every once and awhile. Alt account just did learning. 6 months later alt account has over 8 million sp and main account has about 6. On main account I eventually trained up all advance learning to 4. Now my friend who only started 1 account never trained the learning skills and he started on the same day also. He has about 4.5-5 million SP. He may have been in a ship faster then me but now I am blowing him away. BTW all accounts have the same exact character build. Its up to you how you want to do it. Best bet is to open more then one account
Ashturi Nagano LeM Enterprises	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:55:00 - [19] Edited by: Ashturi Nagano on 13/10/2006 17:02:58 I'm trying something new with my character, and I'm liking the results so far: I'm training the Learning skills up to the next level, and then train my other skills up to that level. So, if I train my learning up to 2, I'll train my Shield Operations, Missile Launcher, etc up to 2, and then Learning to 3, Shields, Missiles, etc to 3, and so on. This way I get a nice balance of "practical" skills, and continually lower the training time for advancing those skills, as well. I PROBABLY could JUST train my Learning skills all at once, but then I'd be stuck in an Ibis with Civilian-Grade weapons for a few weeks...and where's the fun in that? Plus, this way, when I decide to pick up a new skill, it trains up to a decent level fairly quickly. Edit: I don't actually have the "Learning" skill yet. I guess I should say I'm training the "Attribute" skills. They seem to have a much more direct effect than "Learning." One last Edit: If you didn't know this already (and I'm sure most do), when training Attributes all up to the same level (or "powerleveling" 1 [well, you know what I mean]), make sure that Memory always comes first, followed by Intelligence. Then you can train Perception, and Willpower. But Memory and Intelligence should come first because all the attribute and Learning skills use Memory as the Primary and Intelligence as the secondary, so doing it in that order ensures the fastest possible learning time.
Dannek Llama F5 and Associates	Posted - 2006.10.13 18:37:00 - [20] Yeah, I'm thinking a lot of people didn't really understand what I was getting at. Okay, thought experiment time: Suppose that we didn't have any character attributes. All skills train at the same rate. Would the actual gameplay experience be any different? I don't think so. As a few people seem to have confirmed, Learning Skills are just a timesink to keep people around a few extra months. Lame. Oh well, the rest of the game is awesome enough to make up for it. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time.

Belid Hagen Illegitimate Royalty	Posted - 2006.10.13 20:24:00 - [21] if you know you will be playing more than 3 months, getting advanced learning skills to 4 will be more than worth it.
Tarazed Aquilae	Posted - 2006.10.13 21:40:00 - [22] Get the basic learning skills to IV as quickly as possible. It will take about one week total training time to do so and I think you should do it in within the first two weeks. The ôaverageö attribute is just under 8. With the basic learning skills to IV you have raised it to just under 13. ThatÆs over a 50% increase. A skill that took you twelve hours to learn will now take you only eight hours. It doesnÆt take long for that week of training to pay off, so get it out of the way fast. But then you get to the advanced learning skills. (Learning to V, all the attribute enhancers to V, and the advance attribute enhancers to IV.) Training them up will take about seven weeks and cost about 24 million. They will raise your average stat to 18.7 which is a bit over a 40% increase. Training these up will take several months to pay off. Ignoring these for a while is probably good advice but donÆt ignore the basic learning skills.
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.14 03:48:00 - [23] It seems like no one actually reads posts. He wasn't asking if one should do learning skills, he was asking why did CCP decide we need to waste 1-2 months training them instead of just increasing the SP gain rate in general. I wonder how many more people are going to post saying 'you should definately do learning'.
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.10.14 04:36:00 - [24] marketing wise to get people stuck in the game... gam baalnce wise in theory it helps new players since they can get advanced learning skills. where as older players were in abttle ships before these skills were available.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.14 08:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Ariel Dawn It seems like no one actually reads posts. He wasn't asking if one should do learning skills, he was asking why did CCP decide we need to waste 1-2 months training them instead of just increasing the SP gain rate in general. I wonder how many more people are going to post saying 'you should definately do learning'. Yeah well every game has its positives and negatives. You just have to find one that sucks in ways you can tolerate so you can enjoy the rest of it. For the most part the skill system here is excellent, not including the blatantly stupid and moneyhungry concept of "learning skills." I'm getting mine out of the way now, meanwhile playing BF2.
Futuri	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:05:00 - [26] Originally by: dennyreborn marketing wise to get people stuck in the game... gam baalnce wise in theory it helps new players since they can get advanced learning skills. where as older players were in abttle ships before these skills were available. Old players also can get advanced learning skills. In fact, it's easier for them since they already have the essential skills trained and do not lose much by spending 2 months on learning skills.
Nayen Itarr Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:41:00 - [27] dunno where the problem is. the "Learning"skills exist to implement the fact, that an experienced pilot does need a small amount of time to train something new for example. If you expect, that everyone trains a bit learning from time to time, the more experienced a character is, the faster it trains new skills as it is already a master of other ships/weaponsystems/others. where is the problem?
Dannek Llama F5 and Associates	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:17:00 - [28] That doesn't really make sense. A 3 month old character could have the same learning rate as a 3 year old one if it was supposed to reflect that an older pilot takes less time to learn. A better system for that would to just gradually increasing the learning rate for a character the older they were. I'm thinking about it like this: You can either carry a very heavy rock for a long time, or take a couple of shots to the nads and you'll get a smaller rock. Overall, taking the shots to the nads is better, because over a long enough period of time, you're in less pain because your back doesn't hurt as much because you're carrying a smaller rock. But it's still a nad shot. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time.
Jenial	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Jenial on 14/10/2006 19:20:45 Edited by: Jenial on 14/10/2006 19:20:22 I see the point about the learning skills and why they shouldnt even be there in the first place. then again it allows for specialization of characters. no where does it say you need every single learning skill or every single advanced skill. My own training of skills includes learning them as i like to have a balanced character. I dont learn them all at once, but as some one else has said gradually while learning my other skills. When skills start to take longer than a day I bump up the learning skills and/or buy the next implant. This way I am still gaining quality skills that enable me to to make more ISK for better gear, missions, Implants, etc... Right now I've hit the point where I have basic 4's in learning and +2 implants. SO I am taking a break from the learning skills until I get up my skills needed for modules, weapons amd general game play. For new players who dont have ISK and are not alts this is probably the best route as it lets you play and learn about the game and still progress while playing and having a good time. If you have a ton of ISK and are making an alt then yeah slapping in the implants and learning those skills first would be alot less painful as you can play your main while you wait for them to finish.
Trev Kachanov Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.14 23:58:00 - [30] The idea of training a skill that has no benefit other than decreasing the time it takes to train other skills is ridiculous. We'd all be better off if everyone got +9 or +10 to all attributes at creation.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.