ECM jams a target for X seconds, where X is based on the difference between the attackers ECM value and the defenders Sensor value. ECM can then be further balanced by retaining or increasing the cycle time of ECM modules.


If target Sensor Strength = 40? With the same ECM strength of 10, gives a 25% chance to jam for 5 seconds...

ECM is fine. People who get falconed forget that there is a whole ship fighting them dedicated exclusively to knock them out, thats fine. Anyone who has done a bit of small gang pvp will confirm that ECM is easy to counter and the ships who can field it very weak most of the time.

Current mechanic gives 50% chance to jam for 20 seconds.
Balanced mechanic would give a 50% chance to jam for 10 seconds (including the relative opposed strengths of attacker / defender.)

maybe there should be an upper limit, say 95% to always allow for potential fails

Rise just doesn't like Capgu...

But I do kinda like that stacking penalty idea, would reduce the frequency of permajamming with tons of stacked jams. Though having a flight of ecm drones would stack against each other? That might not be the best idea as they are only effective in groups.

A simple example: (with arbitrary values for ease of illustration)

Falcon Pilot has ECM strength of 10
Target has Sensor Strength of 20

Current mechanic gives 50% chance to jam for 20 seconds.
Balanced mechanic would give a 50% chance to jam for 10 seconds (including the relative opposed strengths of attacker / defender.)

ECM is fine. People who get falconed forget that there is a whole ship fighting them dedicated exclusively to knock them out, thats fine.

Anyone who has done a bit of small gang pvp will confirm that ECM is easy to counter and the ships who can field it very weak most of the time.

this is very true and the second your jams fail you better either be warping out or you are dead however Rise has a vendetta against ecm it seems to the point he has even said he wants to remove it and as a primarily ecm pilot i would hate to see that

Do enlighten me, which ship would that be?



How do you easily counter ECM in small gangs without counter ecm/damps?



Blob fights aside, considering that a dedicated ECM ship can permajam few targets from 80-100 km away, how exactly are you going to die?



And this all without even considering the solo pvp aspect.

Do enlighten me, which ship would that be?

How do you easily counter ECM in small gangs without counter ecm/damps?

Blob fights aside, considering that a dedicated ECM ship can permajam few targets from 80-100 km away, how exactly are you going to die?

And this all without even considering the solo pvp aspect.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with ECM to begin with. You either set up for perma jams and have a weak tank or use ECM as a supplementary defensive tool. Either way, a Jam boat is still vulnerable to a 2 man fleet.

Don't fight an ECM boat solo, simple as that. The same as you wouldn't solo a Marauder. On the other side, don't take an ECM boat out expecting to solo roam and survive. They are fleet ships they really on logi and dps to be effective. They are pretty balanced in my opinion.

But i don't use ECM and it's annoying as hell when its used against me so just take it out

Have you ever flown an ECM boat? Because being able to permajam everything is a joke in itself. This is especially true if the entire fleet is using ECCM. When that happens you feel like a completely useless ship. If you wanted to complain about something why not complain how damps and tracking disruptors perma damp/disrupt you. Personally I find it hilarious when people bring up that solo pvp card because Eve is not meant to be played alone, and a Pilgrim is a much better solo pvp platform then the Falcon ever could be with the exception of going up against missile boats.

-ECCM is a joke. Seriously, try doing the math. I have.

Lol
There is rumored to be a magical weapon that counters ECM. I believe it is a type of missile launcher. Rumor has it that these missile launcher can fire a special kind of missile that will distinguish between friend or foe and will automatically attack enemies even when perma jammed. Oh if only I could get my hands on these magical missiles, then I would be able to still defend myself whilst being jammed.

Hm? It nearly doubles your resistance to ECM.

I have another idea for ECM.

It just came to me when I thought about how this would be cool and even more annoying:

Compiz gave me that idea. So everytime you get jammed, your screen shows you a wobble instead of a clear screen and depending on the strenght of the jam, the worse the wobble.

You can still lock target if you manage to click+lock a target, since your overview screen becomes a blank one and the wobble gets more intense the more you move the cursor around.

For example, a multispectrum jammer has a lower strenght, so the wobble isn't so strong but you will still have a hard time getting a lock.

If you are jammed by a 'right' racial jammer, the screen gets even a faint white noise displayed - scary stuff.

And ontop of it all, all jammers will produce false brackets in space - as in you might get a target lock but since jammers produce false signatures (ships and drone brackets), you might end up shooting your fleet buddies.

But the amount of false signatures will be less if you are not in a fleet.

Now that would give a white noise generator a whole new meaning

-For unbonused hulls the drone control range is 60km, if the ECM ship is closer than that then he has screwed up.
-ECCM is a joke. Seriously, try doing the math. I have.
-FOF missiles are broken as well. Try firing them and see what happens (hint: a bug CCP haven't gotten around to fixing).
-Burning towards the jammer works as far as there are no scrams/webs on you. Enough said.

There is no reason to complain about damps or td's because they aren't broken as ****.

Also, who the hell do you think you are telling people how eve is meant to be played? Eve pvp was never meant to be done with ECM. See? I can do that too.

What do you think of the idea of changing racial jammers to scripts to be loaded into a multispec jammer, along with your current idea? I think it's stupid that caldari jam boats are forced to armor tank since they have to fill up so many slots with ecm.

God doesn't play dice

No this removes way to much choice from the pilot/FC and makes ECM much more powerful than it should be right now it is in a good place



and ECM ships do not armor tank the ecm is their tank at the same time they can chose to forgo jams to fit more tank just like they can forgo armor to have stronger jams

-There are utility high slots on alot of PVP ships that extends the drone control range by 24km per module.
-How is ECCM a joke, it halves the chance for every module you have on (Before stacking penatlies). The only change I could possibly see here is allowing ECCM to give a bonus to scan res and targeting range similar to that of a sig amp.
-You are right, they are broken, but they still work, some DPS is better then no DPS
-If you are flying in a small gang, which this thread seems to be focused around, the entire fleet isn't going to be webbed and scrammed.

In terms of TD/SD, all they do different from ECM is give you the illusion that you can still do something if you are properly TD/SD'd.

When did I tell people how to play the game? Just because we are playing rock paper scissors and you refuse to play rock doesn't mean you can complain that the scissors is overpowered.

Didn't we already cover this in another repeat thread?

So to counter an ecm ship with drone control range upgrading modules you would need at least one or in some cases even two utility high slots that have no better purpose than to fit a cpu-costly anti-falcon module that has a chance of chasing the ship off the field? The chance based on the drones actually making it to the ecm ship and taking its slim buffer out in time. Obviously you'd also need a ship hull that has both the targeting range AND scan resolution to be able to target the falcon before the jams begin. Yea right.

I've tried EFTing an anti-ecm battlecruiser hull with both ECCM modules and the racial sensor strength implants (all skills V). The chance of a falcon landing the jams is still HUGE (all skills V).

Um, no the missiles don't work. Thats what the broken part means. When you try launching them in space you get the message "there are no viable targets nearby" and they won't fire at all. This in situations when there are ships directly next to you within 10km.

When tracking disrupted you CAN still use your drones. With ECM the drones go blind. When tracking disrupted you CAN still use your ewar/missiles. With ECM NOTHING. With TD you can still fire your turrets even if the chances of hitting have been weakened. With ECM there go the turrets as well.

When damped you CAN still try targeting ships. Only in situations when your targeting range has been minimised to the absolute zero the effect is as great as it is with all of ECM. And in the situations when your targeting has been gimped there is a great chance that there are less targets within the scram range leaving you able to use your propulsion modules. And if they are within the scram range you are at least capable of trying to take them out since they've commited to the fight. With ECM? No chance at all.

Em is not broken. It is just about as easy to counter as anything else. Instead of looking at elm, , maybe you should look at the counters to nuets and vamps seeing as batterys currently only reflect a small amount.

Now this I support. I would like to see power diagnostics have a small reflect amount or dedicated lows or mids that reflect more. Possibly even a utility high, call it Capacitor Mirror or Ghost Capacitor. Would use x amount of energy to power on but imitates the actual ship capacitor making the neuts or vamps pull from the fake capacitor leaving the real one mostly unaffected. The energy cost to activate this module should be about the same as what a energy neutralized activation cost is per size. That way it still drains the host ship's cap but doesn't allow for immunity from neuts.

-For unbonused hulls the drone control range is 60km, if the ECM ship is closer than that then he has screwed up.
-ECCM is a joke. Seriously, try doing the math. I have.
-FOF missiles are broken as well. Try firing them and see what happens (hint: a bug CCP haven't gotten around to fixing).
-Burning towards the jammer works as far as there are no scrams/webs on you. Enough said.

Yes I have flown an ecm boat. Now let me ask you, have you ever been jammed? A while ago i witnessed a player soloing in a carrier and a set of five hornet ec-300's landed a cycle of jams on him on average every 30-45 seconds. The fight lasted for five minutes and during that time he didn't have a single minute period without ecm on him. Also I cant remember the last time I had a fight (either solo or small gang) where I was only partially jammed. Its always either permajammed or no more than a yellow box on you from the ECM ship as long as the miracle of him fleeing the field isn't happening.

There is no reason to complain about damps or td's because they aren't broken as ****.

Also, who the hell do you think you are telling people how eve is meant to be played? Eve pvp was never meant to be done with ECM. See? I can do that too.

I've seen EC-300s do nothing to a cruiser, so please don't tell me that they have ever once jammed a carrier. I'm going to go test this soon, but until I see it, I'm going to call you a liar.