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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Xerpex
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:18:00 -
[31]
I still don't understand what's wrong with the t1 market... Why do you want to make these changes?
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:21:00 -
[32]
Shouldn't you be out increasing the price of Vagabonds by 1m isk constantly and not worrying about 0.01 isk undercuts anyways?
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:24:00 -
[33]
Yeah this is crap idea Jenny, for so many reasons it's not even funny.
But just in case you manage to catch the devs with this one after a hard night on the ale...
/me hugs office in Jita 4-4 CNAP 
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:30:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/10/2006 16:31:05
Well, not my loss if nobody accepts this idea. Current method of trading is really crap. Easy to make ISKs. If only you could see my assets from trading T1 and T2 ... and yes, they exclude selling Vagabonds.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Vagabond pilots want http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405915 |
Mysticaa
Gallente
Fringe Roamers of Goa
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:36:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Mysticaa
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Tie corp, office and station to market.
1) You can buy anywhere.
2) You can only sell at stations where your corp has an office. People in NPC corps can sell up to a maximum of 3 orders.
Nice idea?
This is a stupid idea. We already have skills which limit how much you can sell. Please explain how limiting where a person can sell will "minimise 0.01isk undercut".
0.01 ISK undercuts or price wars are limited to individuals in corps.
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Why do I post here?
Originally by: Tao Han
"TANK CEO!!!"
Quick Wrangler, to the Banmobile!!!
Sig snatched by Xorus
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:41:00 -
[36]
.01 undercuts only affect people who are trying to extract extra margin from the transaction. If you set the price at the true minimum profit you're willing to accept, including the real value you think your time is worth, then undercutting has no significant effect on you. If you want to take the market for more than that, then it's not unreasonable that you should have to work harder for it, and that includes dealing with pricing challenges from your competitors.
Trying to profit by advocating change in the economic rules/laws in ways that favor you at the expense of your competition is pretty despicable, both in real life and in game. Effective, as witness Archer Daniels Midland, but despicable.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:44:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/10/2006 16:45:03
Originally by: Mysticaa
Edited by: Mysticaa on 12/10/2006 16:39:18
Edited by: Mysticaa on 12/10/2006 16:38:40
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
0.01 ISK undercuts or price wars are limited to individuals in corps.
Akk post got deleted...
You still have not shown how your proposal will keep me from undercutting you by 0.01 isk.
You sell widgets in Oursulaert for 100.00 isk I sell them in Luminaire for 99.99 isk. Only difference is I can not sell in Oursulaert because my Corp doesn't have an office there. But I am still undercutting you by 0.01 isk.
Does not matter. I sell Blackbirds at 5M. You sell Blackbirds at 4M. But in my location, I sell Blackbirds and all the usual kit on the same station. I know what PvPers want and I market my wares to their needs. They will go to my place and buy my a little more overpriced stuffs. If system becomes too competitive, I can start a price war or move to a cheaper system and market my stuffs the same way. Market moves with corp.
Current market is a dumping ground. Everyone dumps their stuffs everywhere and hubs appears because who can dump more stuffs there. Market does not move. Market is a dumping ground. Jita is a junkyard.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Vagabond pilots want http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405915 |
Mysticaa
Gallente
Fringe Roamers of Goa
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Does not matter. I sell Blackbirds at 5M. You sell Blackbirds at 4M. But in my location, I sell Blackbirds and all the usual kit on the same station. I know what PvPers want and I market my wares to their needs. They will go to my place and buy my a little more overpriced stuffs. If system becomes too competitive, I can start a price war or move to a cheaper system and market my stuffs the same way. Market moves with corp.
Current market is a dumping ground. Everyone dumps their stuffs everywhere and hubs appears because who can dump more stuffs there. Market does not move. Market is a dumping ground. Jita is a junkyard.
LOL
That has to be the stupidest thing I have read on these forums in a long time. People, be they PVP'er or not, are not going to pay you an extra million isk just because you have some other overpriced piece of equipment that they may want/need. People will by the cheapest they can find. PERIOD!
Hence the 0.01isk wars.
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Why do I post here?
Originally by: Tao Han
"TANK CEO!!!"
Quick Wrangler, to the Banmobile!!!
Sig snatched by Xorus
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 16:57:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/10/2006 16:57:19
Originally by: Mysticaa
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Does not matter. I sell Blackbirds at 5M. You sell Blackbirds at 4M. But in my location, I sell Blackbirds and all the usual kit on the same station. I know what PvPers want and I market my wares to their needs. They will go to my place and buy my a little more overpriced stuffs. If system becomes too competitive, I can start a price war or move to a cheaper system and market my stuffs the same way. Market moves with corp.
Current market is a dumping ground. Everyone dumps their stuffs everywhere and hubs appears because who can dump more stuffs there. Market does not move. Market is a dumping ground. Jita is a junkyard.
LOL
That has to be the stupidest thing I have read on these forums in a long time. People, be they PVP'er or not, are not going to pay you an extra million isk just because you have some other overpriced piece of equipment that they may want/need. People will by the cheapest they can find. PERIOD!
Hence the 0.01isk wars.
I LOL you. I am glad and happy to be stupid.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Vagabond pilots want http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405915 |
Karille
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.12 17:06:00 -
[40]
Convienience has a price people. Not everyone is a bargain shopper, and i will frequently overpay on things just so i dont have to travel. I agree with Jenny's proposition completely. It would add more diversity to the system markets, and while seeming like some people would start with a monopoly because they have an office in a hub, the raising rent will quickly kick people not willing to pay the premium for existing in a hub out of the system. This may also drive a real market into lowsec since office rent in most lowsec systems are dirt cheap. Now if only people would take hold of some courage and stop putzing around highsec...
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Tarish Montrey
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Posted - 2006.10.12 17:25:00 -
[41]
The Daytrading skill is bugged.
The daytrading skill should not reset your order to the full length of the sale when you change a price.
The charge for changing your price should be based on the total gross amount of the order at the time of the daytrading change.
Soo reducing your sell price 0.01 would not be a good idea if these things worked the way they should.
Lets look into changing your clone station charge also. It should be based on the value of your clone contract.
Lets make insurance for your ship skill based. Insurance should have a base on the value of your ship. There should be a multiply effect if you have a negative sec standing and if you go more than 25 jumps away for the issueing insurance station you dont get the full insurance. Example: If you fly an insurand ship deep into 0.0 dont expect to get 100% insurance payout. Risk - Reward on PVP.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 17:27:00 -
[42]
/signed on removing insurance on everything.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Vagabond pilots want http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405915 |
Tarish Montrey
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Posted - 2006.10.12 17:33:00 -
[43]
Ohh Insurance should be standing based.
If I kill Guristas have a -9 standing why when I dock in pf- the charge me the same rate that the Caldari navy charges me. Arent they nice.
Standings should effect the tax you get charged at NPC stations. This includes buy/sell orders. Right now only thing that standings effects is refine/reprocess.
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Dessa DesPlains
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Posted - 2006.10.12 17:51:00 -
[44]
Whats the problem with someone undercutting you by .01 ISK? Lower your price to minimum profit and drive them out of the system or just ignore them. The players who do that are usually selling rat loot or just started manufacturing and have no idea how to make money at it. They sell at whatever price they feel like. For a while. They can't sustain it forever. If someone undercuts you by 1 million on a ship, they soon figure out that they could make more ISKies by selling the minerals directly. *Poof* Another competitor gone. Someone is selling 1 ship cheaper than you? 10 Large armor reppers? Who cares? Someone will buy it, maybe to resell, and your 25 ships or 100 large armor reppers will be the only thing on the market. Manufacturing/sales is a long haul track not instant ISK.
BTW people WILL pay more if they don't have to travel.  |
Mysticaa
Gallente
Fringe Roamers of Goa
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Posted - 2006.10.12 17:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tarish Montrey
The daytrading skill should not reset your order to the full length of the sale when you change a price.
The order is reset to full length regardless if you have DayTrading or not. Please check your facts.
-----------------------------------------------
Why do I post here?
Originally by: Tao Han
"TANK CEO!!!"
Quick Wrangler, to the Banmobile!!!
Sig snatched by Xorus
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2006.10.12 18:06:00 -
[46]
Ridiculously selfish idea 
MOOCIFER  Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer |
Kcel Chim
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
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Posted - 2006.10.12 18:17:00 -
[47]
Jenny, some good ideas but the problems you describe is not where the customers go or how the whole thing works but how the market works.
T1 market is fully useable even by non specialized characters as you only need a few hundred bil starting money, 4-5 skills and ure ready to roll. Sure u wont offer everything down to a caprelay but ull offer enough to get a slice from the cake.
When market was still "working" as bpos were exspensive, bpcs were rarer and there was more hub systems (lol why did we close off yulai again ?) the market worked. Now there is 500 guys competing in the same system and basically anywhere outside of Rens, Ourslet, Jita and a handfull of other systems isnt worth the hassle.
As for the office idea, i dont like it because it will mean those who currently own an office in jita will push ppl out of jita which seems kinda unfair. Especially considering the fact not every corpoffice is used by buildercorps. The old factory system had the advantage that you actually could close off a station by controlling X factoryslots which was much superior to your office idea tbh.
On the otherhand i would add more and higher lvl skills to building and trading this way we wont see as many "builder alts" or ppl who just "try" the market to generate extra cash for their pvp char or mission char on a low skp toon.
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Tarish Montrey
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Posted - 2006.10.12 18:26:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Mysticaa
Originally by: Tarish Montrey
The daytrading skill should not reset your order to the full length of the sale when you change a price.
The order is reset to full length regardless if you have DayTrading or not. Please check your facts.
I believe if you are in the station that your order is in you the modification of a price should you should get a full time reset. If you are doing it remote - daytrading you should not get the reset.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.10.12 18:45:00 -
[49]
No. Undercutting is good for the economy.
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Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.12 18:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Michayel Lyon
This man speaks the truth. If more people would undercut by 0.01, I doubt the implant market would have crashed as fast as it did. Instead, I see people sometimes undercutting with up to 5m at a time...
It's called the Wal-Mart way of doing business.
You reduce profits on an item to pretty much nothing, solely to drive your competitors out of the arena. At which point, you raise your prices again and profit with no competition.
Of course, this is EVE, and I'm sure 99% of ridiculous undercuts aren't done with such a grandly evil purpose so much as, "LOL I MINED THE MINERALS DIDN'T COST ANYTHING  "
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Labratory Rat
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Posted - 2006.10.12 19:08:00 -
[51]
I didn't quite like the idea at first, but once I'd thought about it I think I actually really like it.
Not sure about limiting sell orders to corp offices though. Perhaps limiting the number of market stalls to a station.
In the current system each hub has one or two stations that are massively over supplied with equipment, all competing with each other with silly 0.01 isk undercuts. I'm actually based in Rens, normally hanging out in the top station because that is where our corp office is. Even though Rens is a big hub system, it can be difficult to get even basic modules in the top station. This is because everyone just dumps their sales in the 2nd station, meaning I often have to make trips next door for even silly little mods or ships.
Spreading people out more in the systems and neighbouring system by limiting the number of sellers in a station will create a much more varied market, cheap mods and ships one or two jumps away from the hub, while the hub consists of alittle more expensive equipment for the convenience. It'll provide more equipment in more stations and allow more people to take part in the market instead of the sales always going to the people who keeping logging in to reduce their prices by 0.01isk.
This will also help cut down on alot of the traffic jams (and graphical lag) pileing up outside the current main stations.
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Keleth
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Posted - 2006.10.13 12:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Matori Kar
This would make no difference at all...except maybe increasing alot of office rentals, heh, and ofc ****ing off a fek of alot of people...
ISKs sink ... good.
Spread of 100 0.01 ISK undercuts ... good.
Nerf super hubs ... good.
Encourage people to go into PC corps ... good.
Fix T1 market for newb crafters ... good.
Spread out people to 4999+ systems in EvE ... good.
Destruction of the market system as people move massively into selling via escrow...bad.
Keleth
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Tarish Montrey
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Posted - 2006.10.13 13:23:00 -
[53]
I think there should be Market stalls.
Having 50 stalls per station. There are 50 factories currently.
You would create a sell/buy order and place it in a ques with the current pricing that factories currently have today. The more stalls used the higher the price and the duration of the order is connected to a daily charge.
I like it. Therefore you can have varied orders when they drop out. If your order is not on the open market you can change with daytrading with no charge. Once its on the market its closed and no more adjustments. This stop daytrading with live orders.
It will be a true market then and not a crazy mess as its now.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.13 13:31:00 -
[54]
Office based market stalls are better than station based market stalls.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
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Ralus
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.13 13:39:00 -
[55]
I've got to say I don't like this one so much, but its very nice to see some good ideas and discussion in the forums rather than winage and smack for a change /me claps
I would prefer a market taxed based solution where the transaction tax is based on the ammount of sell orders currently at that system, busy system = high transaction tax so to maximise profits take your goods to another system
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teddy demontreal
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Posted - 2006.10.13 13:46:00 -
[56]
bad idea
no flame intended but the author should study more closely how the market works
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wystler
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.10.13 13:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
ISKs sink ... good.
Spread of 100 0.01 ISK undercuts ... good.
Nerf super hubs ... good.
Encourage people to go into PC corps ... good.
Fix T1 market for newb crafters ... good.
Spread out people to 4999+ systems in EvE ... good.
Very interesting suggestion. Could be fun. Although you can guarantee it'll create a lot more posts that need moerating 
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
... and yes, they exclude selling Vagabonds.
All your vagabonds are belong to me
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d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.10.13 14:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Edited by: Kcel Chim on 12/10/2006 18:31:46
Jenny, some good ideas but the problems you describe is not where the customers go or how the whole thing works but how the market works.
T1 market is fully useable even by non specialized characters as you only need a few hundred mil starting money, 4-5 skills and ure ready to roll. Sure u wont offer everything down to a caprelay but ull offer enough to get a slice from the cake.
When market was still "working" as bpos were exspensive, bpcs were rarer and there was more hub systems (lol why did we close off yulai again ?) the market worked. Now there is 500 guys competing in the same system and basically anywhere outside of Rens, Ourslet, Jita and a handfull of other systems isnt worth the hassle.
As for the office idea, i dont like it because it will mean those who currently own an office in jita will push ppl out of jita which seems kinda unfair. Especially considering the fact not every corpoffice is used by buildercorps. The old factory system had the advantage that you actually could close off a station by controlling X factoryslots which was much superior to your office idea tbh.
On the otherhand i would add more and higher lvl skills to building and trading this way we wont see as many "builder alts" or ppl who just "try" the market to generate extra cash for their pvp char or mission char on a low skp toon.
Agreed, adding some PE additional skills for specific classes, gall frigate, gall crusier, gall bc, gall battleship, small hybrid, medium Hybrid, (etc through out the entire race and module tree), would be an idea. maybe acting as an extra level of PE for the named class of item.
That should eek out an extra few % profit for those that specialise...
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.13 14:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Erfnam
This will negate all those points players put in to trade skills and it will result in people just creating sales alts in an npc corp so they don't have to open an office. Also, people are lazy and will not travel to purchase stuff. Your idea would make selling the same as lab slots were before RMR--the richer/older players monopolize the hubs and everyone else is forced to move out.
An easier solution to dealing with the .01 isk wars is to manage your orders more frequently, or you could sell at another station/system. Players who don't want to pvp stay in empire. If you don't want to market war, stay out of the hubs.
Contracts
You want a fitted Raven? Create a contract and wait for someone to fill it at your station of choice. It's called value add and can be a lucrative little earner in the real world 
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Plib
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Posted - 2006.10.13 14:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/10/2006 16:31:05
Well, not my loss if nobody accepts this idea. Current method of trading is really crap. Easy to make ISKs. If only you could see my assets from trading T1 and T2 ... and yes, they exclude selling Vagabonds.
Yup. For all that people say T1 market is dead:My main's corp is probably going to wind up its operations soon and in eight months of T1 manufacturing one player (occasionally two) has made an estimated profit of five billion cash+BPs. If we'd bothered with T2 who knows how much we could've made?
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