| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
   |
Posted - 2006.10.13 14:16:00 -
[61]
@ 0.01 isk undercutting: i'm not a builder, only have an alt to build and reprocess stuff for me. however, i find 0.01 undercutting just silly. i often buy from someone who quotes a meaningful price and not 999,853.63 with 10 offers following and each 0.01 apart. doesn't matter to me if i pay a bit extra for this.
@ convenience and "jita is a junkyard": hell yea it is. jita really feels like everyone dumps their stuff there and you pick what to buy, from a pile of junk and not a market where i select stuff.
encouraging people to form markets outside of super hubs would put emphasis on reputation (and there is actually only jita because both rens and oursulaert are a joke compared to jita for getting items). it could be like "ok, i need a new mega and i know this guy in masalle has most of the stuff i need. i'll send him an eve mail". i'm sure most people don't even bother searching local markets because either prices are bad or, more likely, noone sells them outside jita at all. if you're lucky you find a bargain in the citadel and that's all. so, afk travel to jita, again...
convenience means a lot for some people, more than isk. personally, i dont want to make 30 (!) jumps to get to jita and another 30 back. how i come to the conclusion? buy some stuff in jita and put it up somewhere close to 0.0 or even in 0.0 - if i'm just in a shuttle in empire i sometimes buy a random ship just to resell in 0.0 at nice profit. ok, dont flame me because i said 0.0 - i know one gets bbq'd there instantly by griefers and gate campers 
--
|
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 14:20:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Nymos
@ 0.01 isk undercutting: i'm not a builder, only have an alt to build and reprocess stuff for me. however, i find 0.01 undercutting just silly. i often buy from someone who quotes a meaningful price and not 999,853.63 with 10 offers following and each 0.01 apart. doesn't matter to me if i pay a bit extra for this.
Unless you go to another station to buy your item you are buying from the person with the lowest price regardless of which order you click on. You might pay more, but the order is filled by the lowest sell order available in that station.
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 14:20:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mysticaa
That has to be the stupidest thing I have read on these forums in a long time. People, be they PVP'er or not, are not going to pay you an extra million isk just because you have some other overpriced piece of equipment that they may want/need. People will by the cheapest they can find. PERIOD!
You obviously don't have much experience of selling things. People are lazy. Location is a major factor in pricing especially on smaller items. I made a lot of money buying Strip Miner Is from NPCs, moving them six jumps and selling them for a 40% markup. In that case it was good sense. I miner could make up the difference by using the travelling time to mine but it holds true across the board.
A lot of my trades have been moving stuff to where it's wanted then adding 20% for my trouble. It's a bit like kicking sheep but it keeps my wallet fat 
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Xyn Rhais
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 14:40:00 -
[64]
ISKs sink ... good.
- maybe.
Spread of 100 0.01 ISK undercuts ... good.
- i don't see the problem here. Make it so you can only undercut by 1 isk if you want  . Undercutting is just buisness "PvP" not flawed game mechanics.
Nerf super hubs ... good.
- i don't think so. trading hubs are cool, it gives personality to systems, it's only an external problem with lag and stuff.
Encourage people to go into PC corps ... good.
- not by forcing them, no. Maybe you should say: "good for me" ?
Fix T1 market for newb crafters ... good.
- i don't see how this would "fix" that at all
Spread out people to 4999+ systems in EvE ... good.
- how so ? People move outward to mine and control space, but come inward to shop and trade. It's healthy, thinking high-sec should be deserted noob-land and 0.0 should be where everybody is after a while, with no need to go back is dumb. I don't care if some dev thinks otherwise either. Sec status and ownership of portions of space is what keeps people out of most systems.
Your solution would uniformize distribution of goods and lower competition. It would screw the game over for anyone that invested into trade skills, and wants to deal with the PvP part of the game that is the market.
Basicly if you don't care for trade and just want stuff for you at your door so you can blow other peple up faster, then yes this is good.
But it's not good for the people who actually like that part of the game.
|
Roy Batty68
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 15:27:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
How to minimise 0.01 ISKs undercut, fix T1 market, NPC corps and Hubs
Why exactly are 0.01 ISK undercuts bad?
If anything you should be happy about people who undercut by a small amount. It keeps the average price fairly stable. It's the people who undercut by a large amount you should be ****ed at...
|
d026
Herrscher der Zeit
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 15:36:00 -
[66]
Nerf super hubs ... good.
why?
|
Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 15:52:00 -
[67]
Nope bad idea
This would cause the rent in systems like jita and rens to go very high than people would leave/spread out and I would get more competition... I don't like competition. All you big producers undercutting each other stay at the bigs hubs leave me alone in my nice lonly system
|
Futuri
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:09:00 -
[68]
Such a selfish idea... undercut wars reduce the spreads, they are bad for a minority that plays the market, and good for everyone else.
You may not like hubs but for 99% of the population they're a godsend, a single place where you can buy everything you need at a good price.
A realistic free market system was one of the reasons I started playing EVE. Your suggestions would completely ruin the free market, spreads will be insane and it would take ages to sell or buy something at a good price.
|
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:28:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Tie corp, office and station to market.
1) You can buy anywhere.
2) You can only sell at stations where your corp has an office. People in NPC corps can sell up to a maximum of 3 orders.
Nice idea?
You must be a producer. Because only a T2 bpo holder would think this is a good idea.
There is already NOT ENOUGH competition in the market place. There is no reason what so ever to make the market even harder for newbies to enter.
Although, I do agree with finding a way to nerf Jita. I think the easiest way to nerf jita is to make all entry systems into jita .4. Man, wouldn't that be a pretty fire works show.
___________________________________________
The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain.
___________________________________________
|
Futuri
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:34:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Although, I do agree with finding a way to nerf Jita. I think the easiest way to nerf jita is to make all entry systems into jita .4. Man, wouldn't that be a pretty fire works show.
What's wrong with Jita :) Sell price for trit: 2.08, buy price: 2.05 (and there's a buy order for 2.09 in jita4-10). That's a 1.5% spread. IMO an excellent achievement in a game economy...
|
X3vious
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:34:00 -
[71]
Its called competition - why mess with it?
Its obviously inconvienced you, but hey, thats how an open market works.
:-)
Only being able to sell at locations that have an office is too restrictive. A lot of opportunities to sell is lost - for example, I sell some items in remotish locations where I can mark up the prices compared to other locations- and these items sell well.
I doubt my corp would want to set up offices in locations on the whim of its members... you'd get corp offices everywhere - and then ppl would be saying "too many corp offices" - why have them at all.
|
arjun
Viziam
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:48:00 -
[72]
a not thought out idea. if i lose a ship i go to a certain station, buy the ship and all the modules to fit.no stupid traveling for many jumps no waste of my lifetime with doing a dozen jumps for that t2 armor hardener.
same for producers: want to travel with your freighter for hours to grab stacks of minerals?
the more i think of it the more i think stuff it up your Shhhhh nose.
|
Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 16:49:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: Nymos
@ 0.01 isk undercutting: i'm not a builder, only have an alt to build and reprocess stuff for me. however, i find 0.01 undercutting just silly. i often buy from someone who quotes a meaningful price and not 999,853.63 with 10 offers following and each 0.01 apart. doesn't matter to me if i pay a bit extra for this.
Unless you go to another station to buy your item you are buying from the person with the lowest price regardless of which order you click on. You might pay more, but the order is filled by the lowest sell order available in that station.
that's not true. if i right click on an order and do "buy stuff", one unit is deducted from that order. else it would be incredibly silly would it? i mean, pay 4m isk and fill an order of 3.9m? or do you use the market list to browse and just click "buy item" there and not look at individual orders? that's a real bad way to buy stuff.
--
|
Futuri
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:06:00 -
[74]
When you buy something, you always buy from the lowest priced order no matter which order you clicked. Not sure if you pay the higher or the lower price, though.
|
Amiable
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:08:00 -
[75]
Vagabond prices are too high.
|
Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:14:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Futuri
When you buy something, you always buy from the lowest priced order no matter which order you clicked. Not sure if you pay the higher or the lower price, though.
then please explain to me why it deducts one unit from the order i selected? and please explain how that should make any sense. using this approach i'd never be able to buy something in another station because it would buy an item where the cheapest sell order is. again, doesn't make sense. and i could instantly monopolize the whole region with the lowest sell order...
i'm not talking about the big "buy" button that automatically buys something 15 jumps away just because it's the cheapest order. i mean the buy/sell order thing.
--
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:21:00 -
[77]
All  . Post with your mains or you will not get replies.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:24:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
You must be a producer. Because only a T2 bpo holder would think this is a good idea.
There is already NOT ENOUGH competition in the market place. There is no reason what so ever to make the market even harder for newbies to enter.
Not really. Uncontrolled dumping grounds is the reason for newbs having a hard time to enter market.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
|
Noriath
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:25:00 -
[79]
I think this is a great idea, it's about damn time markets were spread out a bit more and ruled by player-corps rather then alt crafters in noobcorps.
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:27:00 -
[80]
Originally by: arjun
a not thought out idea. if i lose a ship i go to a certain station, buy the ship and all the modules to fit.no stupid traveling for many jumps no waste of my lifetime with doing a dozen jumps for that t2 armor hardener.
same for producers: want to travel with your freighter for hours to grab stacks of minerals?
the more i think of it the more i think stuff it up your Shhhhh nose.
As was written earlier contracts. You want to replace your kit, set up a contract. There's an entire trade ready to be started right there.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Futuri
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:38:00 -
[81]
I am a new player and I have found it really easy to enter the market. With no real capital and almost no trade skills trained I make millions every day just by trading around Jita.
Your suggestion, on the other hand, will only benefit a small minority (T2 producers etc), while hurting new traders like myself, and also hurting 99% of EVE population that doesn't trade at all.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
You must be a producer. Because only a T2 bpo holder would think this is a good idea.
There is already NOT ENOUGH competition in the market place. There is no reason what so ever to make the market even harder for newbies to enter.
Not really. Uncontrolled dumping grounds is the reason for newbs having a hard time to enter market.
|
Nanobotter Mk2
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:40:00 -
[82]
How about this....lets focus on fixing the even bigger problem right now which is the t2 market. People are making astronomical amounts of ISK for no risk and little effort in terms of gameplay this is a major problm causing severe economic imbalances. People like Jenny who own a sweet t2 bpo think money grows on trees and have no clue how this game plays for the 90% of the player base.
Once we get the debacle that is the t2 lottery fixed we can worry about the t1 production issues for noobs lol.
PS Jenny feel free to jack up your vaginabond prices by 1 milion for every complaint about t2 market, wait that is your lame threat, you dont actually have the ooompa to jack your prices up and sell nothing :)
|
Tarazed Aquilae
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:45:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Tarazed Aquilae on 13/10/2006 17:45:10
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Tie corp, office and station to market.
1) You can buy anywhere.
2) You can only sell at stations where your corp has an office. People in NPC corps can sell up to a maximum of 3 orders.
Nice idea?
This is a really bad idea, in fact itÆs the epitome of bad ideas. (Sorry, just calling it the way I see it.)
Like many bad ideas, yourÆs addresses a problem that simply doesnÆt exist. There are already limits on how many orders someone can have active so itÆs not like people can have a half a million orders up. So itÆs not like a single player can undercut prices on every item in every system.
Besides, thereÆs nothing wrong with someone undercutting your prices by 0.01 ISK, thatÆs just business. If they can afford to sell 0.01 cheaper than you do (plus the effort to transport the goods to your station) then you are charging too much. Try lowering your prices some. The economy is just another form of PvP. My alliance holding sovereignty in a system doesnÆt stop me from getting ganked, why should your corporationÆs office in a system stop you form getting economically pwned?
Selling choice loot is one of the main ways new players make money. Your plan would cripple them. How do you plan to address this? And, not everyone wants to join a player based corporation either.
Location is vital to the ability to sell. But your plan would give a monopoly on good locations to corporations that had offices in high traffic areas.
You do spread out the market a lot, which just means more time pointlessly flying around to pick up what you need. It inconveniences everyone in the game for no good game play purpose. Having to travel is a pain, but thereÆs a legitimate game reason for it. Having to travel over the better part of two regions just to fit out a shipà Sorry thatÆs a pointless waste of time.
|
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:48:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 13/10/2006 17:53:47
Originally by: Futuri
I am a new player and I have found it really easy to enter the market. With no real capital and almost no trade skills trained I make millions every day just by trading around Jita.
Your suggestion, on the other hand, will only benefit a small minority (T2 producers etc), while hurting new traders like myself, and also hurting 99% of EVE population that doesn't trade at all.
CY-1 Rogue implants used to be cheap. I waved my godly hands and sold them at godly prices. Regional prices followed the "Domino" effect. Gone the days where CY-1 was selling at 700k.
Could newbs wave their godly hands? I have dumped the CY-1 market and waving hands on something else. Watch and learn. This something else is a T1 item.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
|
Futuri
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:55:00 -
[85]
If people buy those implants for more than 700k, it means they're worth that much. It means that the market has priced them too low and you've corrected the mistake. What's wrong with that?
And anyway, what does that have to do with your original suggestion, which will benefit you and hurt new players, and why do you try to disguise it as "helping newbs"?
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
CY-1 Rogue implants used to be cheap. I waved my godly hands and sold them at godly prices. Regional prices followed the "Domino" effect. Gone the days where CY-1 was selling at 700k.
Could newbs waved their godly hands? I have dumped the CY-1 market and waving hands on something else. Watch and learn. This something else is a T1 item.
|
Locke DieDrake
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:57:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 13/10/2006 17:50:33
Originally by: Futuri
I am a new player and I have found it really easy to enter the market. With no real capital and almost no trade skills trained I make millions every day just by trading around Jita.
Your suggestion, on the other hand, will only benefit a small minority (T2 producers etc), while hurting new traders like myself, and also hurting 99% of EVE population that doesn't trade at all.
CY-1 Rogue implants used to be cheap. I waved my godly hands and sold them at godly prices. Regional prices followed the "Domino" effect. Gone the days where CY-1 was selling at 700k.
Could newbs waved their godly hands? I have dumped the CY-1 market and waving hands on something else. Watch and learn. This something else is a T1 item.
Mirror
Here is the thing Jenny. I'll admit you probably have more control over certain parts of the economy than most other people. But you are far from a god. Even in this respect.
For one, any single item can only be manipulated if you control the entire SOURCE for that item. In the case of t2 items, this is possible. In the case of anything that drops from in game play, this is not possible.
You can fubar a single region, or maybe two. But you can't hike prices across the entire game world.
It's foolish to believe that the majority of people buy their goods in jita or rens. The majority doesn't. I buy pretty much everything at the closest place I can find it. I'm more carefull with items that have wider price ranges. T2 cap chargers, or cloaks for instance, but for most stuff, paying 10 to 15% extra just to get it quick and easy is not a problem.
So you may believe you control a portion of the market, but you don't really. What you control is one regions portion of a portion of the market.
The fact that people like you actually go out of your way to artificialy hike prices just goes to show exactly why the rest of us should boycott you. *CCP can we please see the seller name/corp before buying?
BTW, Vaga's are overpriced. (so go ahead and raise it again, I'm caldari)
___________________________________________
The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain.
___________________________________________
|
Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 18:15:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Nerf super hubs ... good.
Wouldn't really. All it would mean is you'd get a few really big corps monopolising the good hub locations with very limited competition. Hubs are where they are because of the geography of eve. Unless you change that, hubs will still "want" to be in the same systems. The only thing you'd change here is that a few large corps would end up with the monopoly on trade in that system (especially if they pad out the office rentals with their own 1-man alt corps). There simply aren't enough producers to have a full supply of everything produced within a couple of jumps of everywhere, especially with T2, nor is there sufficient market demand to justify such widespread supply for many items.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Fix T1 market for newb crafters ... good.
This it definitely wouldn't do. Think about what you're saying - you need to rent a corp office to sell. That corp office rental is a fixed cost, with the cost dependent on how many other people want offices there too.
That fixed cost is going to be a big deal to a newb crafter, who may only have one ammo blueprint and be lucky to build 1mill worth of stuff a day. However, it's going to be peanuts to the large corp with hundreds of BPs shifting many hundreds of millions of isk worth of stuff a day.
The larger corps will compete up the price of offices in the worthwhile locations to their level, which will be way above the level the newbs can afford, due to the large corps economies of scale. True, the newbs won't have to worry about 0.01 isk undercuts, because they would no longer be able to compete at all.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Spread out people to 4999+ systems in EvE ... good.
There are already plenty of good reasons to spread out, it's just that most either don't realise it or are too lazy or unimaginative to do so. I've done very well out of setting up in places that were otherwise fairly devoid of market activity. The problem is that most people look at the market and flock to where the activity is already, rather than looking for the holes where demand isn't already being met.
This sort of method to force people into that would be a severe nerf to those players smart and hard-working enough to be willing to do it off their own back.
Originally by: Michayel Lyon
This man speaks the truth. If more people would undercut by 0.01, I doubt the implant market would have crashed as fast as it did. Instead, I see people sometimes undercutting with up to 5m at a time...
It may not have crashed as fast, but it would have stabilised at the same level in the end either way. The people undercutting by 5mill at a time knew how overpriced that market was, and were smart enough to want out of it as fast as possible.
Originally by: Vala Draaken
Regarding the blue text:
Is that taking into account that you'll need to pay office rent? I've seen office rents up to 90 mill/30 days. That would in my opinion make it somewhat unattractive to sell at hubs.
How much would you pay for the near-exclusive right to sell stuff in Jita? For large industrial corps, that sort of control of a hub market would be almost priceless. Remember, a hub is what it is because of it's location. As long as you can maintain a supply of the items people want, they won't care whether there are 100 corps selling in Jita, or one, they'll still go there as a hub to buy.
Sure, as the other producers are forced out, traffic to the hub may be reduced slightly. But any producer can choose to move out of the hub and generate that effect now if they wanted. They shouldn't be forced into doing it through office restrictions - eve has never, and should never force people to make smart decisions.
-------
There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 18:24:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Nymos
Originally by: Futuri
When you buy something, you always buy from the lowest priced order no matter which order you clicked. Not sure if you pay the higher or the lower price, though.
then please explain to me why it deducts one unit from the order i selected? and please explain how that should make any sense. using this approach i'd never be able to buy something in another station because it would buy an item where the cheapest sell order is. again, doesn't make sense. and i could instantly monopolize the whole region with the lowest sell order...
Situation: There are two orders for Item X in the same station, one selling for 100isk, one selling for 50isk. Right-click on the 100isk order to bring up the immediate buy window, and click buy. Observe as 100isk goes out of your wallet, and the 50isk order reduces by 1 item.
Note that this only happens when the orders are in the same station. If the orders are in different stations, they will not both be valid for the immediate order you place, because the location doesn't match the order you put in.
It's important to realise that right-click->buy on an order does not tell the market to buy from that order. All it does is give you a buy window that is pre-filled with the price and station info of the order you clicked on. In the majority of cases, this has the effect of buying from the order you selected. However, if there are two orders in the same station at or below the price you set (i.e. the price of the order you clicked on), they are both considered as "matching" that order, and the market will go with the order with the lowest sell price. If there is a lower order in a different station, that order does not match on location, so isn't considered.
So while you are able to buy a more expensive order if the cheaper orders are in a different station, if there is a cheaper order in the same station as the order you select, you will always buy from the cheaper order. All that clicking on the more expensive order does is mean you pay the more than you need to.
-------
There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 18:31:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 13/10/2006 18:34:52
To Matthew.
This is market specialisation. 20M SP Jack Of All Trades or 20M SP pure Minmatar specialist? You specialise in what you sell. Market diversification is good. Junkyard market is bad.
CCP encourages new players to group up with old players because of experience gaps. Same with market, corps are the vehicle for newcomers to do their sales and socialise. Solo play is not really good for Eve. Solo play will get you somewhere but not very far. Alliance space vs small corps argument?
Hubs might spread and diversify. Jita might not be Mayfair. Jita might become somewhere along Route 66. May be Jita might be a warehouse for producers to resellers? If newb corps play their cards right, borderworld systems or coastal systems might be heavily populated where economy trives if you have the right stuffs to sell.
---------
Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
|
Tarish Montrey
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 18:50:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 13/10/2006 13:39:01
Office based market stalls are better than station based market stalls. Locking price adjustment after it is in market is a big no. Undercut is PvP but it has to be a diverse undercut. Limited in intra-stations, more inter-stations, often inter-systems.
You miss the point. Following current game mechanics we use to be able to make active manufacturing where as the product was produced it was placed in a hangar. They changed it to batch. Why not have order based batches. This will reduce the system load on the market. Make buyers have smaller orders and sellers smaller. We need to stop the update on the database and making orders batch then we do that.
Having also station stalls is what we are doing for manufacturing and research. Why not the market. This will spread you out based on value not my a secondary office issue. Tieing the market to offices is a big no.
Price undercutting will happen in my plan. Just cause you dont like it does not mean it wont work. Why not try to keep the things we do in EVE the same way and not make new rules.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |