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Ground rules for running a successful corporation

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Mark Androcius 192	Posted - 2015.03.03 10:01:13 - [1] - Quote This is by no means a full on guide on how to be a successful CEO or Director, in order to be successful, you need to have certain skills that cannot be trained, these skills should be ingrained in your personality. And as a special bonus tip to all of you interested in this..... Miners are BY FAR the easiest to recruit and heavily outnumber all other types of pilots. If you really want to grow a large corporation, set mining as your primary objective and then try your hardest to excite those miners into doing more then just mining. https://androcius.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/corporation-management-priorities-and-other-details/ https://androcius.wordpress.com
Archibald Thistlewaite III The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners 708	Posted - 2015.03.03 12:01:14 - [2] - Quote If you really want a successful corporation, you should read this blog and then do pretty much the opposite. If you want to run a corporation that only exists to collect its taxes and act as war bait, follow the guide.
Bloemkoolsaus Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 180	Posted - 2015.03.03 12:27:05 - [3] - Quote I am CEO of my corporation for almost 4 years now. From that experience, I can tell you that the rules you lay out are absolutely not going to make your corporation succesfull. Most of this is simply not true. Managing a succesfull corporation is a lot more complicated. It's not as easy as following a couple of rules.
Chal0ner Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 155	Posted - 2015.03.03 12:41:41 - [4] - Quote I am not quite sure what PvP corp you will try running by the rules: Quote: Quote: 2. You NEED a diverse group of people, miners, manufacturers, PvPers, mission runners, possibly incursion runners and of course Orca/Rorqual boosters. ... 8. Industry pilots are THE most important players in EVE, donGÇÖt let any PvPer tell you otherwise. I guess it's not a PvP corp? But please state that at the beginning.
Mark Androcius 192	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:01:02 - [5] - Quote Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: If you really want a successful corporation, you should read this blog and then do pretty much the opposite. If you want to run a corporation that only exists to collect its taxes and act as war bait, follow the guide. You are in a one man corporation, so how should anyone take you serious? You are posting using your alt? not a smart move if you wanna look like you have credentials. Bloemkoolsaus wrote: I am CEO of my corporation for almost 4 years now. From that experience, I can tell you that the rules you lay out are absolutely not going to make your corporation succesfull. Most of this is simply not true. Managing a succesfull corporation is a lot more complicated. It's not as easy as following a couple of rules. You are running a 79 man corp, have you seen how large mine is? Also, mine's 4 months old, yours is 4 years old...... hmmm, who's doing a better job here? What's that? you don't care that you only have 79 members? Then why are you commenting on this? apparently you don't wanna be successful. What's that? you don't like me shoving your face in fact? Well I'm sorry, but you just tried to do the same to me, so please don't be a hypocrite. Chal0ner wrote: I am not quite sure what PvP corp you will try running by the rules: Quote: Quote: 2. You NEED a diverse group of people, miners, manufacturers, PvPers, mission runners, possibly incursion runners and of course Orca/Rorqual boosters. ... 8. Industry pilots are THE most important players in EVE, donGÇÖt let any PvPer tell you otherwise. I guess it's not a PvP corp? But please state that at the beginning. Yup, not when you want to run a PvP corp, if you want to become a powerful entity in this game though.... that's basically what I meant with success. I'll see if I can update the post to make it more clear. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 988	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:20:15 - [6] - Quote That is a terrible guide. Remarkably so. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 684	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:24:51 - [7] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: This is by no means a full on guide on how to be a successful CEO or Director, in order to be successful, you need to have certain skills that cannot be trained, these skills should be ingrained in your personality. I have not clicked on or read the link, but since this is the New Citizens Q&A subforum, I will suggest to all new players reading this thread to not even think about starting your own corporation any time soon (except perhaps a one-man corp for tax dodging). If you are to even have a chance at long-term success, you will need at least some understanding of game mechanics, something you will most easily learn by joining an existing, successful corporation. There will be plenty of time later to start up your own corp once you have mastered the basic game mechanics, and absorbed the lessons about corporation management that other corps have learned the hard way. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Archibald Thistlewaite III The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners 712	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:36:47 - [8] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: If you really want a successful corporation, you should read this blog and then do pretty much the opposite. If you want to run a corporation that only exists to collect its taxes and act as war bait, follow the guide. You are in a one man corporation, so how should anyone take you serious? You are posting using your alt? not a smart move if you wanna look like you have credentials. I'm in a one man corp, so I don't have to be in a corp like yours. One that only exists to collect taxes from its members and act as war bait. As I don't have much time to play. I'm not an alt either. Attacking me does in no way make your guide any more useful. Mark Andocius wrote: You are running a 79 man corp, have you seen how large mine is? Also, mine's 4 months old, yours is 4 years old...... hmmm, who's doing a better job here? What's that? you don't care that you only have 79 members? Then why are you commenting on this? apparently you don't wanna be successful. What's that? you don't like me shoving your face in fact? Well I'm sorry, but you just tried to do the same to me, so please don't be a hypocrite. You seem to be suggesting that success is all about the number of members you have. Which once again suggests you want a corp that only exists to collect taxes and act as war bait. Quality of the people who join you is far more important than the quantity you get.
Mark Androcius 193	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:40:04 - [9] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: This is by no means a full on guide on how to be a successful CEO or Director, in order to be successful, you need to have certain skills that cannot be trained, these skills should be ingrained in your personality. I have not clicked on or read the link, but since this is the New Citizens Q&A subforum, I will suggest to all new players reading this thread to not even think about starting your own corporation any time soon (except perhaps a one-man corp for tax dodging). If you are to even have a chance at long-term success, you will need at least some understanding of game mechanics, something you will most easily learn by joining an existing, successful corporation. There will be plenty of time later to start up your own corp once you have mastered the basic game mechanics, and absorbed the lessons about corporation management that other corps have learned the hard way. Yup, that is indeed a good point. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Azda Ja Green Skull LLC 3442	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:40:17 - [10] - Quote Dude, chill out. Did you expect 0 criticism? Most of your bullet points in the "guide" make assertions with nothing to back them up. No evidence, no argument. Here's a few examples: Androcius wrote: 2. You NEED a diverse group of people, miners, manufacturers, PvPers, mission runners, possibly incursion runners and of course Orca/Rorqual boosters. Why exactly is this needed? Androcius wrote: 4. 150 is the magic number, once you get that many members, you will see that you attract a lot more people to your corporation by default, the amount of effort you will have to put into recruitment will go down to almost none. Why does one even need a large corporation to be successful? According to you Bloemkoolsaus' corp is awful simply because they have 'only' 79 members. Really? How about explaining that instead of just stating it as fact. Androcius wrote: 8. Industry pilots are THE most important players in EVE, donGÇÖt let any PvPer tell you otherwise. "PvP pilots are THE most important players in EVE, don't let any industrialist tell you otherwise." Yeah, I love me some PvP; but both of those statements smell like horseshit on a hot day. There are a few points I agree on, 11 in particular. Thing is though, this isn't a guide, and most points aren't even 'tips'. Without any context or explanation, most of this is pointless. You either explain why things are the way you say they are, or it's just hot air. "I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish GSLLC Recruitment Join Today!
Mark Androcius 193	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:42:01 - [11] - Quote Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: If you really want a successful corporation, you should read this blog and then do pretty much the opposite. If you want to run a corporation that only exists to collect its taxes and act as war bait, follow the guide. You are in a one man corporation, so how should anyone take you serious? You are posting using your alt? not a smart move if you wanna look like you have credentials. I'm in a one man corp, so I don't have to be in a corp like yours. One that only exists to collect taxes from its members and act as war bait. As I don't have much time to play. I'm not an alt either. Attacking me does in no way make your guide any more useful. Mark Andocius wrote: You are running a 79 man corp, have you seen how large mine is? Also, mine's 4 months old, yours is 4 years old...... hmmm, who's doing a better job here? What's that? you don't care that you only have 79 members? Then why are you commenting on this? apparently you don't wanna be successful. What's that? you don't like me shoving your face in fact? Well I'm sorry, but you just tried to do the same to me, so please don't be a hypocrite. You seem to be suggesting that success is all about the number of members you have. Which once again suggests you want a corp that only exists to collect taxes and act as war bait. Quality of the people who join you is far more important than the quantity you get. Ah, so you don't agree with a certain style of play then? Well why didn't you make that point to begin with? also, ANY corporation needs to levy taxes if it wants to be able to provide its members with anything...... this is pretty basic stuff you know. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1234	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:45:53 - [12] - Quote Azda Ja wrote: most of this is pointless. The point is to get clicks on his website and for ppl to use his buddy invite.
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 991	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:46:21 - [13] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: ANY corporation needs to levy taxes if it wants to be able to provide its members with anything A better goal would be having a group willing to work together and provide the corp with the things it needs in order to keep membership happy, taxes being used as a last resort. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout
Bloemkoolsaus Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 182	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:53:05 - [14] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: You are running a 79 man corp, have you seen how large mine is? Also, mine's 4 months old, yours is 4 years old...... hmmm, who's doing a better job here? What's that? you don't care that you only have 79 members? Then why are you commenting on this? apparently you don't wanna be successful. What's that? you don't like me shoving your face in fact? Well I'm sorry, but you just tried to do the same to me, so please don't be a hypocrite. I guess we have different measures of what we consider successfull. As with a lot of things in eve, `success` is different for every player. If a large corporation equals a succesfull one, then you're right. But then, you should probably change the topic to `ground rules for running a large corporation`. I consider my corporation very successfull. I'll explain why. My corp is very stable. You can see this on dotlan for exemple by looking at the member count graph. There is some flux ofcourse, but it's generaly pretty stable. A lot of members in my corp, have been here for years, and are still logging in and having fun every day. New members, usually stay for long periods aswell. Thus, I can conclude that people like being in my corp and are having fun. Wich is pretty much the goal of my corporation! We do not actively recruit. More members does not equal more fun for us. We do not need more members to do what like, to play the way we like and most importantly, to have fun. So, the corporation shows very little growth in terms of member count. If you want to call me a hypocrite, thats fine. But realise that what you consider successfull, might mean failure for someone else. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Running an industrial corporation is very different then running a pvp corporation. It would help if you are specific in your guide as to what the goals are.
Archibald Thistlewaite III The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners 712	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:53:40 - [15] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Ah, so you don't agree with a certain style of play then? Well why didn't you make that point to begin with? also, ANY corporation needs to levy taxes if it wants to be able to provide its members with anything...... this is pretty basic stuff you know. What on earth are you babbling on about? Who said anything about playstyles. I was commenting on your guide that you posted on your blog. Some corporations do need to levy taxes, ones with ship replacement programs or POSes that are available for its members use for example. That guide you posted focused so much on numbers and getting miners who don't need any content from you, that it is only going to create a corp that exists for the purpose of collecting taxes for no other purpose than the CEOs wallet. Nothing wrong with that, but lets call it what it is. A way of exploiting people to pad your own wallet.
Primary Fleet Commander EVE CPI Testing Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:54:52 - [16] - Quote I don't know about you guys, but if you hadn't noticed, his corp is pretty much perma camping its current wardeccers and denying them their regular dose of killmails (cept for a few low value ones at least). And it's pretty clear to me what he means with success, a big corp that is making a name for itself in some way shape or form. Also: "8. Industry pilots are THE most important players in EVE, donGÇÖt let any pvper tell you otherwise." That is pretty much accurate. I know it's pretty much the "chicken or egg" question, but without industry, there would be no pvp. Of course without pvp there would be no need for industry either, but i still feel industry > pvp is more true then pvp > industry
Archibald Thistlewaite III The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners 712	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:57:23 - [17] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Azda Ja wrote: most of this is pointless. The point is to get clicks on his website and for ppl to use his buddy invite. I didn't notice that. He even lies about the trial period CCP gives. Mark Androcius' blog wrote: In the mean time, get your free 30 day trial by clicking here and setting up a new EVE Online account. Normal trial period is 14 days. Androcius gives you 30 free days!!. Shame on you Mark!!!
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:58:39 - [18] - Quote Bloemkoolsaus wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: You are running a 79 man corp, have you seen how large mine is? Also, mine's 4 months old, yours is 4 years old...... hmmm, who's doing a better job here? What's that? you don't care that you only have 79 members? Then why are you commenting on this? apparently you don't wanna be successful. What's that? you don't like me shoving your face in fact? Well I'm sorry, but you just tried to do the same to me, so please don't be a hypocrite. I guess we have different measures of what we consider successfull. As with a lot of things in eve, `success` is different for every player. If a large corporation equals a succesfull one, then you're right. But then, you should probably change the topic to `ground rules for running a large corporation`. I consider my corporation very successfull. I'll explain why. My corp is very stable. You can see this on dotlan for exemple by looking at the member count graph. There is some flux ofcourse, but it's generaly pretty stable. A lot of members in my corp, have been here for years, and are still logging in and having fun every day. New members, usually stay for long periods aswell. Thus, I can conclude that people like being in my corp and are having fun. Wich is pretty much the goal of my corporation! We do not actively recruit. More members does not equal more fun for us. We do not need more members to do what like, to play the way we like and most importantly, to have fun. So, the corporation shows very little growth in terms of member count. If you want to call me a hypocrite, thats fine. But realise that what you consider successfull, might mean failure for someone else. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Running an industrial corporation is very different then running a pvp corporation. It would help if you are specific in your guide as to what the goals are. Well at least that is a comment I can do something with and I agree with you on this. If you would have said that from the start, I would have done something with that information and changed the post to better explain what I'm talking about https://androcius.wordpress.com
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:02:10 - [19] - Quote Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: He even lies about the trial period CCP gives. Mark Androcius' blog wrote: In the mean time, get your free 30 day trial by clicking here and setting up a new EVE Online account. Normal trial period is 14 days. Androcius gives you 30 free days!!. Shame on you Mark!!! Whoops, I honestly did not know they also changed the normal trial period, I will fix that right now. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1234	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:07:39 - [20] - Quote Primary Fleet Commander wrote: I don't know about you guys, but if you hadn't noticed, his corp is pretty much perma camping its current wardeccers and denying them their regular dose of killmails (cept for a few low value ones at least). And it's pretty clear to me what he means with success, a big corp that is making a name for itself in some way shape or form. Also: "8. Industry pilots are THE most important players in EVE, donGÇÖt let any pvper tell you otherwise." That is pretty much accurate. I know it's pretty much the "chicken or egg" question, but without industry, there would be no pvp. Of course without pvp there would be no need for industry either, but i still feel industry > pvp is more true then pvp > industry Another alt post of yours, this is becoming a habit. What are the chances that this alt only posted in 2 threads ever, both if which are the OP's. Even more so, in the other thread you're actually bidding against yourself in a WTA.
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:13:14 - [21] - Quote Post updated to better reflect its intentions. Thanks to all the helpful comments. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1052	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:16:58 - [22] - Quote "1. The player comes first, the corporation comes second, any alliance you are in comes third and any coalition you are in comes fourth, you take care of things in that order and in that order alone." So you will ruin the corp for one person? "2. You NEED a diverse group of people, miners, manufacturers, PvPers, mission runners, possibly incursion runners and of course Orca/Rorqual boosters." No? Elaborating a little: I am in a wormhole corp and we do not have or have any need for a rorqual/orca. Most of us have never mined in years and missions even less. "3. Miners and other industry focused pilots will tell you they donGÇÖt like PvP, they are lying to themselves, they just donGÇÖt know that yet. Figure out how you can positively influence them to get involved in pew pew." Forcing someone to do what they don't want to do is a good way to alienate people. If a miner expresses interest in pvp, then yes, give them an avenue. "4. 150 is the magic number, once you get that many members, you will see that you attract a lot more people to your corporation by default, the amount of effort you will have to put into recruitment will go down to almost none." Any proof at all? Or you just happen to get 150 members and then hit a spike in recruitment and then you decided that was the norm? Lot's more wrong with your blog, including the fact you're offering a 30 day free trial.
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:18:43 - [23] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Azda Ja wrote: most of this is pointless. The point is to get clicks on his website and for ppl to use his buddy invite. You know what the funniest thing is dude..... the more you respond to my threads, the more attention my threads get, the more attention my threads get, the more views I get on my blog, the more views I get on my blog, the more actual RL money I make. https://androcius.wordpress.com
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3938	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:34:47 - [24] - Quote I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! The Rules: 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counter productive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Chal0ner Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 155	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:35:10 - [25] - Quote OP edited, still don't need miners and rorqual boosts in a pvp corp. Also, definition of success if strange - as we ran one of the most successful pvp corporations in CFC at one point. And it wasn't all that large.
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:37:48 - [26] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: "1. The player comes first, the corporation comes second, any alliance you are in comes third and any coalition you are in comes fourth, you take care of things in that order and in that order alone." So you will ruin the corp for one person? If you had read the entire blog post, you'd stumble across comments on many points, but I guess that's to much work for you. Tsukino Stareine wrote: "3. Miners and other industry focused pilots will tell you they donGÇÖt like PvP, they are lying to themselves, they just donGÇÖt know that yet. Figure out how you can positively influence them to get involved in pew pew." Forcing someone to do what they don't want to do is a good way to alienate people. If a miner expresses interest in pvp, then yes, give them an avenue. Who said anything about forcing people? "positively influence" means exactly what it says. Tsukino Stareine wrote: "4. 150 is the magic number, once you get that many members, you will see that you attract a lot more people to your corporation by default, the amount of effort you will have to put into recruitment will go down to almost none." Not my first corp, also not the first corp I helped to become a force to be reckoned with, up till now I've basically done my thing in the background. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:40:48 - [27] - Quote Chal0ner wrote: OP edited, still don't need miners and rorqual boosts in a pvp corp. Also, definition of success if strange - as we ran one of the most successful pvp corporations in CFC at one point. And it wasn't all that large. I updated the blog post to show what I mean by success, please let me know if you have any constructive comments. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Chal0ner Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 155	Posted - 2015.03.03 15:01:46 - [28] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Chal0ner wrote: OP edited, still don't need miners and rorqual boosts in a pvp corp. Also, definition of success if strange - as we ran one of the most successful pvp corporations in CFC at one point. And it wasn't all that large. I updated the blog post to show what I mean by success, please let me know if you have any constructive comments. Reading fail? Can't be more constructive than I was, sorry. Nearly stopped reading after 2nd point, you won't get any more hints.
Mark Androcius 194	Posted - 2015.03.03 15:14:05 - [29] - Quote Chal0ner wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: Chal0ner wrote: OP edited, still don't need miners and rorqual boosts in a pvp corp. Also, definition of success if strange - as we ran one of the most successful pvp corporations in CFC at one point. And it wasn't all that large. I updated the blog post to show what I mean by success, please let me know if you have any constructive comments. Reading fail? Can't be more constructive than I was, sorry. Nearly stopped reading after 2nd point, you won't get any more hints. No no, I was being positive there, your comment actually was constructive, I was just asking if you had any more after I changed it. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 959	Posted - 2015.03.03 15:28:19 - [30] - Quote I helped build my successful corporation from scratch, and I cannot fully agree with a single point you made. This guide is downright useless, if not actively harmful for new players. Remove the trial link and prove to us that you are actually interested in helping new players. Otherwise, get out of this forum section. This is worse than Feyd's blog, and that is saying something. Have some shame. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Mark Androcius 195	Posted - 2015.03.03 15:47:33 - [31] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: I helped build my successful corporation from scratch, and I cannot fully agree with a single point you made. This guide is downright useless, if not actively harmful for new players. Remove the trial link and prove to us that you are actually interested in helping new players. Otherwise, get out of this forum section. This is worse than Feyd's blog, and that is saying something. Have some shame. Just because you don't agree, does not mean it is wrong. And, once again, show me where and how you think it's wrong (according to you) and maybe people can actually do something with your wisdom. My blog explains what works for me (and for a hell of a lot of members in our corp), if you can make the guide work for you, great, if you can't, ignore it or give constructive comments. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 224	Posted - 2015.03.03 15:59:07 - [32] - Quote isnt it about quality of players not quantity? ofcourse quantity will be better for passive isk from taxing etc but what use is a 150 man corp if all the players are crap? EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Mark Androcius 196	Posted - 2015.03.03 16:22:56 - [33] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: isnt it about quality of players not quantity? ofcourse quantity will be better for passive isk from taxing etc but what use is a 150 man corp if all the players are crap? Truer words have never been spoken. High quantity increases the odds that you have quality though. Also, we were all noobs once and if I was part of a large corporation in my noob days, I would have made a hell of a lot less mistakes, simply because I would have more people to learn from (like my current corp does for its newbro's). https://androcius.wordpress.com
Phig Neutron Rubicon Cubism 47	Posted - 2015.03.03 19:34:44 - [34] - Quote The biggest reason this blog fails is that it doesn't define "success" or even provide an example. Is the OP a CEO or Director of a corporation? Is it successful, and if so, by what metric? Does he have more than one such experience to draw on? Who knows? IMHO the given guidelines might work, sort of, if your goal is simply to get maximum numbers of newbies with low standards to fly your flag for a while. However, rule #4 (that after 150 there's no need to actively recruit) won't work in that situation. Your directionless corporation will be shedding members so fast that the only way to keep attracting more suckers is to keep actively recruiting. (I'm betting OP is probably also keeping people "on the books" who quit the game after the free trial and haven't logged in in years... it's the only logical thing to do if he believes his own "magic number" theory.) But even this would be okay if the OP was clear that this was the type of success he wanted to achieve. Is it? It is necessary to define success, so here's mine: I would define a successful corporation as one in which you have a mission or vision and you are making progress toward achieving it. A corp that wants to be everything to everybody is rarely successful. (I'm stumped to think of an example of one such that has achieved success or reknown, please let me know if you've heard of one.) In order to realize one vision, you'll have to compromise on something else. That doesn't mean that individuals have to be constrained -- you can still have a successful industrialist and a successful pirate in the same corp -- but that for the corporation to define its success in a meaningful way it needs to focus on what it wants to achieve. And of course, the mission needs to be compelling enough to attract players, and the players need to see some progress toward realizing the vision. Having defined success, then, I could go on with a list of "CEO tips" like how to run your recruitment chat and so forth, which is fine, but I think it's actually a separate topic unto itself.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1053	Posted - 2015.03.03 19:54:38 - [35] - Quote Either way this thread should be shut down as a rather elaborate attempt to get people to use his buddy invite.
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5896	Posted - 2015.03.03 20:12:09 - [36] - Quote Sorry, but please....stop making "guides" that are full or errors and other stupid crap. Or keep making them, but don't expose other people to them, specially new players. OTOH: New players, this is NOT how it should be done. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5897	Posted - 2015.03.03 20:18:05 - [37] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Cara Forelli wrote: I helped build my successful corporation from scratch, and I cannot fully agree with a single point you made. This guide is downright useless, if not actively harmful for new players. Remove the trial link and prove to us that you are actually interested in helping new players. Otherwise, get out of this forum section. This is worse than Feyd's blog, and that is saying something. Have some shame. Just because you don't agree, does not mean it is wrong. And, once again, show me where and how you think it's wrong (according to you) and maybe people can actually do something with your wisdom. My blog explains what works for me (and for a hell of a lot of members in our corp), if you can make the guide work for you, great, if you can't, ignore it or give constructive comments. HJAHAHA A guide should NOT include ANY form of personal opinions (while your list of crappy things, is filled with it completely). A guide should be objective, giving information that is true for any and all cases. But another great attempt to lure people to your blog and to your trial link... Now, I, as Cara, will wait and see till you actually proof to be here to help newbies and not attention *** (like Feyd). Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club**
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 961	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:25:24 - [38] - Quote Alright, I'm feeling nice so I will give you some real advice. If you really want to write guides to help new players, pick topics that are 1. Not subjective 2. Applicable to new players How to lead a corp is not a useful topic for new players. The vast majority of the time, these people should be joining an established corp to learn the game mechanics before trying to lead others. Sure, you get some ambitious newbros that band together and pull off the near-impossible, but statistically it is far more likely these people will quit the game when their fledgling corp fails to take off. A better topic would be what to look for when joining a corp, although this is still somewhat subjective and you would also be competing with excellent guides already made by people like NightCrawler. Even better would be guides describing the basic mechanics that new players need to learn. There are many, but a few jump to mind immediately -How to navigate the tutorials (step-by-step) -How to set up your overview and what to put on it for different situations -A fitting guide with descriptions of different classes of modules and how to distinguish between variations -Descriptions of different PVE options with pros/cons (missions, ratting, combat exploration, incursions, wormhole sites) -How the market works and how to get started with a career in trade -What the different stats on blueprints mean and how to get started with production or research/invention These aren't "opinion" topics like the ones you have been picking and getting backlash for. But they are useful topics for new players which many older players take for granted and don't even consider anymore. Here's an example for you. Just make sure you get your facts correct and then no one can complain about it, no matter what your true motives are. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Phig Neutron Rubicon Cubism 47	Posted - 2015.03.03 22:16:23 - [39] - Quote [quote=Cara ForelliHow to lead a corp is not a useful topic for new players. The vast majority of the time, these people should be joining an established corp to learn the game mechanics before trying to lead others.[/quote] Careful... you're expressing your personal opinion. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander...)
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1245	Posted - 2015.03.04 02:34:31 - [40] - Quote Phig Neutron wrote: Cara Forelli wrote: How to lead a corp is not a useful topic for new players. The vast majority of the time, these people should be joining an established corp to learn the game mechanics before trying to lead others. Careful... you're expressing your personal opinion. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander...) Factually and logically it makes 100% sense to join a group of knowledgeable players who will invite you to all kinds of (advanced) play styles and fleets, teaching you stuff, showing you stuff which then allows the newbie to make his own decisions on play style and choices based on his own experience, helped by older players giving him the info he needs. Sitting in your own little corp is a great way to shield yourself from others, lowering the chance of learning the game and seeing different play styles. This generally increases the chance of new players quitting the game. "No, I want to be solo" is the personal preference option.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 962	Posted - 2015.03.04 02:59:32 - [41] - Quote Phig Neutron wrote: Careful... you're expressing your personal opinion. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander...) Yeah, it does sound that way when you crop out the qualifying statement. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 177	Posted - 2015.03.04 03:22:36 - [42] - Quote Guilty again of scanning and not really reading this topic but I agree the linked guide is useless. The best way to start a successful corp is to open it, find like minded players and get them into the corp then go have fun. If you accomplish this first you can figure the rest as you go and adapt to the needs of your members and corp needs. Far to many small corps get bogged down in the "i must do this" or "I must do that" thought process of running a corp and they fail before they get big enough for all that other stuff to matter.
Mark Androcius 198	Posted - 2015.03.04 10:24:42 - [43] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Guilty again of scanning and not really reading this topic but I agree the linked guide is useless. The best way to start a successful corp is to open it, find like minded players and get them into the corp then go have fun. If you accomplish this first you can figure the rest as you go and adapt to the needs of your members and corp needs. Far to many small corps get bogged down in the "i must do this" or "I must do that" thought process of running a corp and they fail before they get big enough for all that other stuff to matter. The big point is this Gregor Parud wrote: Factually and logically it makes 100% sense to join a group of knowledgeable players who will invite you to all kinds of (advanced) play styles and fleets, teaching you stuff, showing you stuff which then allows the newbie to make his own decisions on play style and choices based on his own experience, helped by older players giving him the info he needs.. Absolutely new players have no idea there is a killboard, they don't care about killboards either. Besides that, they pretty much don't know anything about the game. The shear number of them, means it becomes extremely easy to recruit large amounts of them. Next to this, you will almost always attract a couple of experienced people. In my current corporation for example, we've got people who just wanted to have a mining alt next to their hardcore PvP main, these people (together with yourself of course) can help out newbro's a whole lot. Out of the large numbers, you will always be able to get people interested in a much broader range of EVE content (like PvP, like incursions, like mission running etc etc etc). Once you got a few people interested in other things, that then creates a domino effect, getting even more people interested. We got wardecced by a formidable mercenary alliance last weekend, 30 minutes after the war started, we were in THEIR home system with a 50 man fleet of destroyers, 3 hours later we had a 770M isk kill. The next day, we got no less then 6 mails from other corporations and alliance ceo's that were also wardecced by this same merc alliance, asking us if they could join us in the fight. Last night there were 171 of us in their home system. So far, my own corp hasn't had any high value losses, an alliance member lost a Tengu due to disconnect issues (reimbursed, but still on the killbaord of course). This is what I meant by not giving a F about the killboard, you do it this way, that killbaord will fix itself eventually. In terms of my definition of success, I don't know how to put it any different to how I did on the top of the blog post. A large corporation that eventually makes a name for itself in the game as a force to be reckoned with, like the Goons, like Brave newbies. And towards the people claiming that you have to focus on just a few things, that isn't absolutely true, do you really think Brave only does PvP? how do you think their members make isk? just pew pew? hell no, they've got miners, they've got boosters, they've got mission runners, they do literally almost everything. If that is the type of success you are after, then my guide is perfect for that. https://androcius.wordpress.com
Azda Ja Green Skull LLC 3444	Posted - 2015.03.04 11:10:14 - [44] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: In terms of my definition of success, I don't know how to put it any different to how I did on the top of the blog post. A large corporation that eventually makes a name for itself in the game as a force to be reckoned with, like the Goons, like Brave newbies. I haven't heard of a single corporation you've been in, maybe some have. How exactly are we supposed to take you seriously if that is your definition of success? And after accusing other people of posting on alts, you better not come out with "Oh, I was a part of them on an alt." As others have said, stop trying to get buddy invites and claiming to write "guides" that are more opinion piece than anything. "I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish GSLLC Recruitment Join Today!
Phig Neutron Rubicon Cubism 53	Posted - 2015.03.04 16:48:48 - [45] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: And towards the people claiming that you have to focus on just a few things, that isn't absolutely true, do you really think Brave only does PvP? how do you think their members make isk? just pew pew? hell no, they've got miners, they've got boosters, they've got mission runners, they do literally almost everything. If that is the type of success you are after, then my guide is perfect for that. That's not what I said. I said that a successful corporation can have members doing all kinds of things. But in order to claim to have succeeded as a corporation you have to have something special that makes the corp different than just a bunch of guys who happen to fly the same flag. We can talk about what BRAVE stands for, and whether or not they're doing well at it. "Just a bunch of guys" cannot be successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) because there's no goal to measure it against.
Mark Androcius 198	Posted - 2015.03.04 17:13:01 - [46] - Quote Phig Neutron wrote: That's not what I said. I said that a successful corporation can have members doing all kinds of things. But in order to claim to have succeeded as a corporation you have to have something special that makes the corp different than just a bunch of guys who happen to fly the same flag. We can talk about what BRAVE stands for, and whether or not they're doing well at it. "Just a bunch of guys" cannot be successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) because there's no goal to measure it against. Ah, right right, I get what you mean. Well, my corp is kicking the rear end of some mercenary alliance. We've even stopped them from having any kills on the other 36 corporations and alliances they are wardecced with and we are making a LOT of friends that way. It has come to the point now (after just 3 days) that they've decided to hire a merc alliance to dec us, imagine that, a merc alliance hiring a merc alliance to help fight a bunch of noob miners. That successful enough? we've only just got started too. https://androcius.wordpress.com
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5912	Posted - 2015.03.04 21:42:25 - [47] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: And towards the people claiming that you have to focus on just a few things, that isn't absolutely true, do you really think Brave only does PvP? how do you think their members make isk? just pew pew? hell no, they've got miners, they've got boosters, they've got mission runners, they do literally almost everything. If that is the type of success you are after, then my guide is perfect for that. No, your guid is great for those "Jack of all trades - Disbanded in months" corps. BNI did start as a pure PvP thing... And with time, they attracted other corps that did other things. P.s. A PvP player that runs a couple of missions so he can refund his ships for PvP...is still a PvP player. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5912	Posted - 2015.03.04 21:44:28 - [48] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Phig Neutron wrote: That's not what I said. I said that a successful corporation can have members doing all kinds of things. But in order to claim to have succeeded as a corporation you have to have something special that makes the corp different than just a bunch of guys who happen to fly the same flag. We can talk about what BRAVE stands for, and whether or not they're doing well at it. "Just a bunch of guys" cannot be successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) because there's no goal to measure it against. Ah, right right, I get what you mean. Well, my corp is kicking the rear end of some mercenary alliance. We've even stopped them from having any kills on the other 36 corporations and alliances they are wardecced with and we are making a LOT of friends that way. It has come to the point now (after just 3 days) that they've decided to hire a merc alliance to dec us, imagine that, a merc alliance hiring a merc alliance to help fight a bunch of noob miners. That successful enough? we've only just got started too. A merc alliance that must hire mercs...to kill miners... And HOW and in what world, is that succesful. p.s. Maybe the others aren't stopped by you..again, that's your opinion, not a fact. p.p.s. Not to mention, your alliance's killboard tells a completely opposite story. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 434	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:45:58 - [49] - Quote I must contest point 10 but I thought the rest of the guide was well done. If the first corp I joined had followed this guide it might still be alive. It's good advice. Points 3, 5, 6, 9, 11 are excellent and are the missing variables for a lot of failing highsec corporations. 2 and 8 are a matter of disagreement but not damaging to the corp. You don't need to be a specialist corp to survive as is being argued in this thread. There are "balanced" corporations and alliances that have been around for years because they follow many of the points raised in the article. These places attract players that enjoy a "balanced" play style. Obviously a hardcore pirate or industrial carebear will not fit into such a place. ~ Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
Justin Zaine 204	Posted - 2015.03.05 17:15:29 - [50] - Quote Quote: I know it's pretty much the "chicken or egg" question, but without industry, there would be no pvp. This is absolute horseshit. The rooster came first. Wheeeeeee
Mark Androcius 198	Posted - 2015.03.05 17:23:20 - [51] - Quote Justin Zaine wrote: Quote: I know it's pretty much the "chicken or egg" question, but without industry, there would be no pvp. This is absolute horseshit. The rooster came first. Wahahah, lol https://androcius.wordpress.com
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5913	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:03:57 - [52] - Quote derp. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 406	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:32:32 - [53] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: 3. Miners and other industry focused pilots will tell you they donGÇÖt like PvP, they are lying to themselves, they just donGÇÖt know that yet. Figure out how you can positively influence them to get involved in pew pew." I will be the first person to tell you that the last person that you want to listen to about what someone likes or dislikes is that person. People often have a very distorted view of what their likes and dislikes are. In many cases if you give them the opposite of what they say that they like then they are more inclined to like that. However there is a huge difference between something often being true and something always being true. You can't make blanket statements about individual preferences and not expect someone to call bullshit on that. There are people that just enjoy PvP and then there or those that just don't, then in the middle there is the majority of people that to varying degrees will like or not like it depending upon context. I would have to say unless you add some kind of qualifier to that statement it's pure horsehocky.
Paranoid Loyd 4029	Posted - 2015.03.05 21:12:47 - [54] - Quote I love Eve. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2051	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:49:30 - [55] - Quote When I read that guide I imidiately declared war on the OP. It's literally a guide on how to attract piranhas.
Lachesiss nomnomnom MOAR BABIES The Pursuit of Happiness 274	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:57:46 - [56] - Quote I thought the guide was great. I printed it off to make a perfect paper plane. Mine went the furthest out of the office window whilst on fire. On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 274	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:02:13 - [57] - Quote You NEED bla bla bla You MUST bla bla bla I hate it when people capitalize words like that. It CAN be funny if you're being facetious, but otherwise it just speaks VOLUMES of how little understanding you have of the matter you're trying to teach. Also, I've seen hair spray cans that have more words written on them than there are words in your guide. Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23213	Posted - 2015.03.06 14:19:38 - [58] - Quote Ironically OP appears to have missed the rule about not posting terrible guides to corp management in the NCQA forums and his corpmates appear to have missed the one about not complaining about wardecs in the C&P forum. "Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 180	Posted - 2015.03.06 16:58:19 - [59] - Quote Think very carefully as to what, if anything at all, you write in your corp description. If you are not sure leave it blank. Do not write anything to do with mining, industry, 'new player friendly', or mining. Unless you want to be continually wardecced.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 406	Posted - 2015.03.06 17:35:38 - [60] - Quote Vicky Somers wrote: Also, I've seen hair spray cans that have more words written on them than there are words in your guide. As someone who came of age during the 80's this comment teleported me to some PTSD like out of body traumatic recallation of that time. I still have the smell of aquanet in my nose from it and now my skin feels all sticky and I am being bombarded with mental images of bangs larger than 12 inches.
Lloyd Roses 881	Posted - 2015.03.06 20:03:37 - [61] - Quote Ya, I actualy read through those guides. Doubt I have to rate them at this point. Thankfully there is a pile of responses so newbros should be sufficiently safe from this outburst of mental diarrhea. I GÖÑ Sleipnir
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 9009	Posted - 2015.03.06 23:24:33 - [62] - Quote Both this, and the thread loyd linked are why I hang around on the forums. Glorious. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2063	Posted - 2015.03.08 18:51:12 - [63] - Quote Since this thread was posted lots and lots of destroyers and mining barges have exploded.
Brylan Grey Scope Works Overload Everything 71	Posted - 2015.03.10 04:03:17 - [64] - Quote I honestly found my experience in eve to be completely contrary to everything listed in this guide. As a person and player, the guide also seems completely wrong to me but I won't be so audacious as to assume I know everything about the sociology of EVE. The best advice really is to simply find like minded individuals with similar interests in EVE. That is it. That is all you need. CEO of a pvp corp? Don't mass recruit high sec miners. CEO of an industry corp? Don't cater to the PVPers. Biggest issue I have with the guide... Putting the individual above the group. A good individual will do what is good for the group. If they don't, they are not going to see to it that the group has success.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1281	Posted - 2015.03.10 13:13:50 - [65] - Quote That's funny, he left "his" corp.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1072	Posted - 2015.03.10 14:06:23 - [66] - Quote It's ok he can make another one because he's so successful at it.
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5967	Posted - 2015.03.10 17:31:48 - [67] - Quote Wait, he left his corp. But why, he is great at how to run a corp, how to recruit only great people and how to deal with wars. /sarcasm. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Paranoid Loyd 4129	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:44:29 - [68] - Quote I'll just leave this here. Please change title to: How to lead lambs to the slaughter. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Ned Thomas Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1113	Posted - 2015.03.12 17:35:10 - [69] - Quote Looks like OP got decced out. .......tip your bartenders. Don't get lost alone - Join Signal Cartel, New Eden's premier haven for explorers! Onward to Thera with Eve Scout

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