EVE Search - Why so Split on Supers?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Why so Split on Supers?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Kestral Anneto Bentusi Heavy Industries 60	Posted - 2015.03.07 19:23:12 - [1] - Quote Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing?
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 6134	Posted - 2015.03.07 19:26:35 - [2] - Quote They are terrible because CCP does not know what to do with them. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Batto Rem Section 8. Fatal Ascension 3	Posted - 2015.03.07 19:34:13 - [3] - Quote Supers by themselves are fine. It is when you start having fleets of supers they become a problem. It also has to do with those that have them and those that don't. Those that have them don't want them getting nerfed because of all the time and effort they have spend getting them. Those that don't have supers see them as a kind of I win button. I can bring thousands of people into a fight but if you bring 100 supers. My thousands of people can't win.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2213	Posted - 2015.03.07 19:39:55 - [4] - Quote I think what Abazzar said is right. CCP doesn't know what they want to do with them. They used to know what they wanted to do with them but that was back in the days when a super capital was something special and a titan was rare and treasured and protected... Nowadays, everyone has a carrier somewhere, every other player has a super somewhere and there are enough titans that people blow them up for ***** and giggles.
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 805	Posted - 2015.03.07 19:51:36 - [5] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? I own a Super, and I personally believe they are bad for the game (so that is your first theory torpedoed) - or more to the point, that the mechanics surrounding them are bad. The problem is, they were never imagined to be fielded in numbers, and now people are able to field them in full fleets, the mechanics have broken down. Ultimately its the fault of the remote repair mechanics, not the ship in itself, they just have a big enough amount of hp that they are functionally invulnerable under reps (and since Supercarriers carry reps, they always will have them to hand) to everything other than more than itself (the very essence of the n+1 problem). That said, you can't put the cork back in the bottle and just take them away, and any rebalance has got to take in to account the sheer number rattling around. I personally wouldn't care if they just removed them (I got mine to "compete" not because it was a personal goal, I would go back to Battleships and Battlecruisers without a murmur), but enough would that it is long past being an option.
Felicity Love Imperium Galactic Navy 2208	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:06:17 - [6] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? It's more than just "jealousy", it's an epidemic of impatience. The new generation of instant gratification kids have attention spans of a goldfish, and don't want to wait a year of training. In other games, they can power level their way to the top in days. If they can't jump in at the top of the game, or buy their way in, they ***** "it's not fair". Basically, they are a waste of oxygen. "EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
Kestrix Industrial Renaissance 175	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:10:11 - [7] - Quote Thiers nothing wrong with capitals/supers in of themselves they are only a symptom of unlimited resources which leads to the numbers we have now and the ease to stock pile and replace losses.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6565	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:18:10 - [8] - Quote Doubt I'd get a good chance to really use my super or titan now... not only can it be so fatiguing but apparently interceptors or something like that are the way of the future. But we maybe needed to camp a gate when someone comes to end our dream ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6365	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:26:41 - [9] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? Bittervet here. Supers have come to represent everything that is wrong with the structure of the game and the shortsightedness of the game's design. This has much to do with the blue donut and the stagnating of the game. Infinite resources means supers supers supers. Even the world's superpowers have a limited number of carriers and battle groups. But infinite resources have provided simply more entrenched big dogs. There have been numerous threads about the topic, so I won't go over everything. But for the most part the super is more of a symbol of a host of issues than a problem by itself. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Allant Doran Patriot Security Services New Signature 76	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:36:53 - [10] - Quote Felicity Love wrote: Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? It's more than just "jealousy", it's an epidemic of impatience. The new generation of instant gratification kids have attention spans of a goldfish, and don't want to wait a year of training. In other games, they can power level their way to the top in days. If they can't jump in at the top of the game, or buy their way in, they ***** "it's not fair". Basically, they are a waste of oxygen. I'm a middling player. I'm not a Vet, not a newbie, but I have been in and around Eve for a very long time on various characters. So coming from that perspective, it has nothing to do with not being able to fly one. I actively do not want to fly a Supercapital-class Ship. The problem is Proliferation. Supercapitals are very cool in theory. They are not cool when you, as people have said, consider that they can be fielded in numbers that are usually reserved for Subcapitals. Supers are bad for the game due to the game's inherent 'You can get everything in EVE with time' style. What is meant to be rare and strong, suddenly becomes superfluous and overpowered. I'm more likely to want to fly one now that these changes are in place just because it sounds like a more interesting role to fill than just ANOTHER form of DPS or Logistics.

Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1531	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:50:30 - [11] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? The biggest enemies of supers are living in high sec. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6365	Posted - 2015.03.07 20:56:07 - [12] - Quote Allant Doran wrote: Felicity Love wrote: Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? It's more than just "jealousy", it's an epidemic of impatience. The new generation of instant gratification kids have attention spans of a goldfish, and don't want to wait a year of training. In other games, they can power level their way to the top in days. If they can't jump in at the top of the game, or buy their way in, they ***** "it's not fair". Basically, they are a waste of oxygen. I'm a middling player. I'm not a Vet, not a newbie, but I have been in and around Eve for a very long time on various characters. So coming from that perspective, it has nothing to do with not being able to fly one. I actively do not want to fly a Supercapital-class Ship. The problem is Proliferation. Supercapitals are very cool in theory. They are not cool when you, as people have said, consider that they can be fielded in numbers that are usually reserved for Subcapitals. Supers are bad for the game due to the game's inherent 'You can get everything in EVE with time' style. What is meant to be rare and strong, suddenly becomes superfluous and overpowered. I'm more likely to want to fly one now that these changes are in place just because it sounds like a more interesting role to fill than just ANOTHER form of DPS or Logistics. Indeed let me dispel the notion of "jealousy" and "quick gratification". Anybody who plays the game for any amount of time begins to realize that bigger is not better. I have been at this game since 2006 and have never wanted to fly anything larger than a battle cruiser. When I'm in a battleship it's because there was a need to. I have yet to get any racial battleship skill past 4. To be a super pilot is uncommon and takes a bit of commitment to the game that not every player is up for. You don't just "get a super and PWN the game", like hitting the max level of WoW or something and then getting purple drops in raids. A super takes a good deal of support and logistics to survive. If someone is going to see some news article of some big supers brawl in Eve and then sign up all starry-eyed thinking they are going to be the fleet commander in the super, then it's actually good if they learn reality and leave dispirited. Reason for this? Anybody that impressionable is not going to make it here anyway. They are like the kids who watched "Top Gun" in the 80s and signed up thinking they were going to be F-14 pilots and do amazing stuff and "get the girl" in the end. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 185	Posted - 2015.03.07 21:48:28 - [13] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? They are bad for the game for a variety of reasons. 1) They can't really be balanced against the other ships. 2) Remote repair scalability means that they are nigh on invulnerable. 3) They never really had a purpose - they were really just giant epeen machines. As long as there were only a few of them, it really wasn't a bad thing. It's when everyone and their brother started building them that they became a serious issue, largely because it meant that if you didn't have them, you couldn't compete anymore. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Nick Bete The Scope Gallente Federation 303	Posted - 2015.03.07 21:56:59 - [14] - Quote CCP assumed when supers were put into game that their extremely high costs (to build and train for) would limit a small number of them to only the largest, most organized entities in the game. What they failed to take into account was that resources in Eve are effectively infinite. Over time as more groups and individuals have accumulated more wealth it's gotten to the point that supers are now within reach of nearly anyone who wants one. They've proliferated so greatly that pretty much any entity that doesn't want to be overrun by their neighbor's super fleets needs to field their own super fleet and so the cycle continues. It's probably that issue that has made people unhappiest.
Serene Repose 2346	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:24:20 - [15] - Quote Well, you've got this ego stroking digital symbol of success, seniority and superiority (read: Linus's blanket) and you're just going to S N A T C H it away from the holder! Oh, but wait. You don't just YANK it. It gets heavier and heavier first, so heavy you want to put it down yourself, but the ego ride is strong so, you shift into self-justification overdrive in anticipation of what you surmise is ahead! THEN, when the truth becomes ominously apparent, you figure launching into a premature grief process will shake the digital deities sufficiently to keep your bleggy - hope against hope - but, it's an ego totem so it's not really hope, it's JUSTICE. Soon, we'll see honest-to-God withdrawal from a collection of pixels (they always like to say just after they kill your ship). After all, it is only a GAME, RIGHT? "Never fly what you can't afford to lose." Was that it? Did I get that right? Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 583	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:29:43 - [16] - Quote Why. When I was a lad we used to walk to Jita, in capitals, uphill both ways...in the snow.... Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 75	Posted - 2015.03.08 03:31:11 - [17] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? #1 Caps/Supers used to be great, now they are too OP when someone fields hundreds of them (because hundreds of interceptors, T3 cruisers or BS aren't OP apparently...). #2 They lack a clear role (unlike specialized ships which are... specialized). In this case, those ships are too powerful at 1 thing (especially when a bunch of those ships come together), and then suck really bad at other's... so people get 'stuck' with them, especially super's. #3 A LOT of people are jealous they can't field them, or not field enough. Instead of working harder, it's better to ***** & moan about it so someone else does something about it (it's the mentality of the latest generation). #4 A LOT of people also jump on the bandwagon (i.e: grrr goons, death to supers, etc), usually because of a he said/she said, or simply their pimp tengu got wtfpwned by half a dozen caps when they didn't use a scout to go roaming in someone's space.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1067	Posted - 2015.03.08 03:38:31 - [18] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: ... Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do?... You are asking that of a community where thousands can fly all of the sub caps of a given race and key top ones of another? With great frequency I see logi pilots swop from Scimi to Guardian then to other high skill required sub cap ships. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3135	Posted - 2015.03.08 03:40:53 - [19] - Quote Supercapitals were introduced to the game with a design brief of "hurrr make them KEWL and AWESUM!" rather than anything that actually makes sense within the game and nobody at CCP has the slightest clue how to put this right. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2660	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:37:42 - [20] - Quote Supers were initially balanced on cost and have continued to be balanced in that way. This works fine in the real world because there's a finite amount of resources available to any given nation/player in the game. But in eve resources are not finite, and they always accrue, this essentially eliminates the cost balancing factor over time. If supers were easier to kill this would be a mitigating factor, but they aren't. The pilots tend to be very risk adverse (For good reason), and the functional invulnerability to ewar/tackle save dictors/hictors means any kill on them is basically time limited. As far as the idiot from SMA saying that these things are rare and the ability to pilot them is as well.... no. There are probably more people in game that can fly a SC (Because it's skillset is functionally identical to those of a carrier, it's only one additional skillbook) than can competently fly a black ops bs.

Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1068	Posted - 2015.03.08 05:34:30 - [21] - Quote SmilingVagrant wrote: As far as the idiot from SMA saying that these things are rare and the ability to pilot them is as well.... no.. Drat, not managing to re-find the supers and Titans conga line footage. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6371	Posted - 2015.03.08 05:41:42 - [22] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: Why. When I was a lad we used to walk to Jita, in capitals, uphill both ways...in the snow.... Shut up and help me chase these kids off the lawn. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1068	Posted - 2015.03.08 05:46:48 - [23] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: SmilingVagrant wrote: As far as the idiot from SMA saying that these things are rare and the ability to pilot them is as well.... no.. Drat, not managing to re-find the supers and Titans conga line footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSziz-vtZKY This will have to do. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Logan Revelore Symbiotic Systems 44	Posted - 2015.03.08 12:39:16 - [24] - Quote Perhaps make them more about firepower and less about staying alive. Just a few percent. See if the birth/death ratio shifts.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12046	Posted - 2015.03.08 12:49:26 - [25] - Quote Supers were designed around the intention that only a few of them would ever exist, and seeing one would be a newsworthy event. Since that's in no way the case, they stand as a monument to the short-sighted game design philosophy of CCP. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 1450	Posted - 2015.03.08 13:37:45 - [26] - Quote **** supers. The Tears Must Flow
Godfrey Silvarna Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 365	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:00:53 - [27] - Quote Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? Supers exist outside of the regular rock-paper-scissors design of ship classes, which makes them a bit awkward, if not outright bad design. A certain EVE celebrity has written an interesting piece on balancing supers: http://www.themittani.com/features/james-315-how-fix-supercaps
Shiva Linga Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:40:04 - [28] - Quote I CAN USE CAPS IF I WANT TO <--- * proof * but I choose not to..... Cant understand the debate....
Ethikos SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 49	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:49:34 - [29] - Quote I think the division regarding Supers has its roots in play styles. The thing I love about EvE the most is the Sandbox and the different approaches resulting from that. Some groups take the approach of gathering as many players as possible and throwing them at an objective, others take the approach of gathering a much smaller number of more experienced / higher skilled players and throwing them at an objective. Massive E-War frigate wings and the like are one of the "I Win" buttons for the first group, Supers are one of the "I Win" buttons for the second group. When you add in the cost and effort of owning a Super, it becomes easy to see why a large portion of EvE feels very strongly about the issue. That being said I think the problem may start to solve itself. With the new Sov changes, there will no longer be single objectives to fight over. As such you wont see the single massive fleet supported by a huge E-War wing or Super blob if it works out like I think it will. Instead you will have a collection of smaller fleets all working to gain the various objectives for their side. Sniggwaffe (Waffles)
Dograzor Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance 68	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:58:27 - [30] - Quote Tbh I believe that the costs of super is balanced as is, it has taken me over 2 years to train a dedicated character from scratch and secure -+30 billion that is needed for everything involved in getting a supercarrier. Getting a super has been a long term goal for me once I started playing EVE in 2008, and now in 2015 I find myself in the position to get one. The issue is that once I have a super I seem to be part of some "apex force" problem, which I can understand, but I do believe CCP needs to think very carefully how they address this issue (and not say some half assed **** on an eve meet) as the ones who have supers have spent many years, isk, and RL money (subs) to get one. I do hope CCP gives some more clarification on this super matter soon.

Shiva Linga Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2015.03.08 14:59:40 - [31] - Quote I personally think its all linked to the obvious learning disabilities. You either learn to write and spell proper or you just use caps. Simple as that....
Alice Saki Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 125709	Posted - 2015.03.08 15:00:19 - [32] - Quote Dog, don't get one. Unless you want to be a Giant Command Ship that does nothing else. FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Sweet Adamas Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.03.08 15:56:43 - [33] - Quote Supers are not a problem for most people. They only start to exist once you have put down real estate in nullsec and they start showing up on your doorstop with all their friends. For this reason the Supers only affect a certain percentage of the population. But when they do there is no counter apart from having more of them than the enemy. And a well organised alliance can churn them out. My end game i win ship was always the BLOPS. and ive never gone further. Go anywhere and have some DPS/Tank when i get there.
Rhalina Sedai Notice Has Been Served 2	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:58:35 - [34] - Quote I would like to see supers back in high sec, nothing bashes down a pos faster than a bunch of dreads.
Memphis Baas 192	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:33:50 - [35] - Quote Carriers in RL are few because of a few things: - progressing technology makes older carriers obsolete - the cost of resupplying and repairing them Unfortunately, CCP doesn't have the Tech Levels set up to allow a rolling progress of technology, or they could introduce newer and newer "levels" of tech, and restrict "older" ships to only be able to use older tech. Also, the ship repair mechanics don't require materials or spare parts at all. They could set up a system where alliances could take out components from spare capitals to repair the ones that suffer damage in the field, as an option to reduce their numbers once they're "rebalanced."
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7860	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:44:27 - [36] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: Carriers in RL are few because of a few things: - progressing technology makes older carriers obsolete - the cost of resupplying and repairing them Those are valid reasons, but I think the more important one is resources and money. Here in the real world we don't have unlimited materials gained from passive mining and some omnipotent group dropping cash on us like raindrops. Else the navies of the world would be just like those in EVE. No, once CCP comes to the realization that unlimited resource static moons are the real problem, things will start looking up for this game. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2220	Posted - 2015.03.08 18:08:19 - [37] - Quote Dograzor wrote: Tbh I believe that the costs of super is balanced as is, it has taken me over 2 years to train a dedicated character from scratch and secure -+30 billion that is needed for everything involved in getting a supercarrier. Getting a super has been a long term goal for me once I started playing EVE in 2008, and now in 2015 I find myself in the position to get one. The issue is that once I have a super I seem to be part of some "apex force" problem, which I can understand, but I do believe CCP needs to think very carefully how they address this issue (and not say some half assed **** on an eve meet) as the ones who have supers have spent many years, isk, and RL money (subs) to get one. I do hope CCP gives some more clarification on this super matter soon. It is balanced, until everybody spent that time and ISK and suddenly has one.
Charadrass Angry Germans 200	Posted - 2015.03.08 18:50:10 - [38] - Quote By the time CCP erased Titans and Supercarriers from the game, everyone will target the next bigger class. which will be the carriers, dreadnaughts. after get rid of them, the crying players target the battleships etc etc etc. open your eyes, there is always a bigger fish in the tank. if you get constantly mocked by a superpilot, buckle up and kill him. he will need a bit of time to replace his loss. btw i dont really see how ccp will remove them from their functionality since you Need a lot of time and isk to get them. and suddenly all super pilots are worthless :) but go on, nerf your game more and more till you have rock-paper-scissors on very small scale. i can hear the small scale pilots screaming for that, but for that small scale, you dont Need that amount of Players. maybe fozzie is up to a 5vs5 eve online universe... like Counterstrike.
Grytok KL0NKRIEGER 12	Posted - 2015.03.08 19:30:17 - [39] - Quote Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines. Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day. So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2220	Posted - 2015.03.08 19:33:35 - [40] - Quote Charadrass wrote: By the time CCP erased Titans and Supercarriers from the game, everyone will target the next bigger class. which will be the carriers, dreadnaughts. after get rid of them, the crying players target the battleships etc etc etc. open your eyes, there is always a bigger fish in the tank. if you get constantly mocked by a superpilot, buckle up and kill him. he will need a bit of time to replace his loss. btw i dont really see how ccp will remove them from their functionality since you Need a lot of time and isk to get them. and suddenly all super pilots are worthless :) but go on, nerf your game more and more till you have rock-paper-scissors on very small scale. i can hear the small scale pilots screaming for that, but for that small scale, you dont Need that amount of Players. maybe fozzie is up to a 5vs5 eve online universe... like Counterstrike. It would be nice if CCP sat down, came up with a 'meta' and started dictacting it instead of trying to patch and fix and bandage at every corner every 6 months.

Myriad Blaze Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda 353	Posted - 2015.03.08 20:11:44 - [41] - Quote Getting into a supercarrier was one of my goals in EVE and in a few months I would have been ready. J'Poll: EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you. EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
Alice Saki Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 125723	Posted - 2015.03.08 20:27:43 - [42] - Quote Grytok wrote: Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines. Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day. So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths. Ofc you Fully Endorse it you said so yourself you don't fly them... FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - All I want from Xmas is YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Grytok KL0NKRIEGER 13	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:25:37 - [43] - Quote Alice Saki wrote: Grytok wrote: Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines. Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day. So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths. Ofc you Fully Endorse it you said so yourself you don't fly them... Yeah, but by choice and not by inability.
Grytok KL0NKRIEGER 13	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:26:34 - [44] - Quote Grytok wrote: Alice Saki wrote: Grytok wrote: Back in 2006 when I started playing this game I allready said that titans and mothers should be big fat support-vessels instead of doomsday-machines. Allthough I've over 140 mil SP on this character, I've not trained a single capital ship skill. I can fly a dread and carrier with an alt tho, but I was never interested in training for supers, allthough I could easily afford to buy one and loose it the next day. So yeah, I fully endorse the plan of reducing supers to big fat fleetsupport vessels. Dreads and carriers should be used to blow things up alongside these supporting behemoths. Ofc you Fully Endorse it you said so yourself you don't fly them... Yeah, but by choice and personal preference, not by inability.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6569	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:59:48 - [45] - Quote Myriad Blaze wrote: Getting into a supercarrier was one of my goals in EVE and in a few months I would have been ready. Quick, it's time to end some 0.0 dreams ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Lienzo Amanuensis 46	Posted - 2015.03.09 01:05:14 - [46] - Quote I guess nerfing them is just easier than coming up with a hard counter. There are a zillion other things CCP could do. For example, change the build reqs of all caps and modules and ammo used by caps to require moon minerals as a kind of Tech C. Or add an effect to doomsdays which prevents remote repping a target. Or putting out sov content that has varying levels of defense, some of which is accessible to small gangs sometimes, and others which allow capitals to engage directly, or areas where smaller gangs have to prep zones for caps to get involved. Perhaps they could simply rank the size of HP walls by sov level, requiring only that elevated levels of sov be surrounded by one level lower sov, ensuring that every empire would have a vulnerable periphery that must be defended. Whether supercaps have a role in the environment is a slightly different question than whether they have a role in the ship ecology. Among subcaps, you used to have a mushy sort of circle of predation, where frigs were vulnerable to cruisers, and cruisers were vulnerable to BS, and BS were vulnerable to frigs. That hasn't really been the case for many years, but it's intuitive. You could parallel that easily enough by having BS be vulnerable to caps, caps vulnerable to supers, and supers be vulnerable to battleships. However, there are modules all over the place that make that messy, like webifiers, target painters, and remote repairers, especially in ways that scale. In the long ago days before the circle of predation changes, bigger ships were always better, with armageddons have no lock time and no stacking penalty for damage modules. It would stand to reason that CCP is riven with its own factions, and the vision has changed as leaders and talent have come and gone. RR capfleets may be broken today, and they may be mothballed by summer, but eventually CCP will get around to either doing something else with them, or coming up withing something else entire. We don't have any control over that, only how we react. Abandon null and things will change faster. Abandon alliances, and the leaders of new and surviving alliances will adapt to changing desires from their members. Periods of change are opportunities to create new paths for yourself.
Sean Parisi Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T 642	Posted - 2015.03.09 01:31:33 - [47] - Quote Here is the issue with super capitals - In order to procure them for yourself you do not just need massive amount of assets, but also a large amount of time and null sec owner ship. You will attempt to make your own super fleet to compete with current blocs and have all of your supers prematurely aborted and executed. Then when Supers perform in combat - they do siege dreadnought dps on paper (correct me if I am wrong), have massive EHP, (HAD) large projection as well as remote reps ontop of E-War immunity. Combine these factors with the current sovereignty system and it allows people to monopolize regions that aren't used. Combat wise it is basically a question of who has more super caps. As someone who doesn't use them and is an outside observer (As such my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt) I would like to see their ehp softly nerfed. Their DPS greatly cut and their utility vastly increased. This way they will still have power, but diminishing returns will take effect after a certain point. Basically - reduce their brute force application and make them more niche towards a support role. So they can vastly change the fight. But a blob of them does not dictate who wins and who doesn't.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1073	Posted - 2015.03.09 01:36:24 - [48] - Quote Godfrey Silvarna wrote: Kestral Anneto wrote: Ok, why is the community so split on Supers, or even Caps in general? Is it a simple case of jealousy of not having them, while others do? Why do people think that they are bad for the game? Why do people think that they are a good thing? Supers exist outside of the regular rock-paper-scissors design of ship classes, which makes them a bit awkward, if not outright bad design. A certain EVE celebrity has written an interesting piece on balancing supers: http://www.themittani.com/features/james-315-how-fix-supercaps Wrong link? I didn't find any celebrities. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 626	Posted - 2015.03.09 02:01:31 - [49] - Quote Felicity Love wrote: It's more than just "jealousy", it's an epidemic of impatience. The new generation of instant gratification kids have attention spans of a goldfish, and don't want to wait a year of training. In other games, they can power level their way to the top in days. If they can't jump in at the top of the game, or buy their way in, they ***** "it's not fair". Basically, they are a waste of oxygen. Heh. Top of the game? There shouldn't be a top of the game in EVE. This isn't like other MMOs where we constantly have new levels and gear to obtain and discard the old stuff. The fact is the main purpose of the skill system in this game is to keep people subscribed and provide a "ding" every now and then. Wait a year to unlock an item in the game? That actually sounds terrible. Absolutely terrible. Best way to spin it is it's a reward for loyal customers. Worst way to spin it is it's a way to keep people paying. Spending a year honing your actual skills at playing a game is something to be proud of I guess. Or sad about, there's probably better things out there to master than a video game. But waiting a year/paying CCP for a year for the privilege to unlock an item in game... not exactly an accomplishment. No gratification to be had there. It's empty. You haven't actually done anything but wait until you're allowed to use the new toy. - Player who could have trained for supers on multiple accounts but didn't, and probably never will, because they seem kinda lame, so no, I am totally not jelly.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6574	Posted - 2015.03.09 07:40:28 - [50] - Quote Titans, too... they already have specific boosts associated with them though. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4006	Posted - 2015.03.09 16:04:28 - [51] - Quote I'm going to consolidate several threads on Supers currently active in GD in one thread. As such, as there already is a thread on the same topic, this one gets a lock. The Rules: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussion regarding a topic to a single thread. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.