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What about BM:s take up so much resources?

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Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.15 19:01:00 - [1] Well, I'm in a situation where I need to escrow myself 12 bookmarks. And escrow gets stuck on "Loading" for 20 minutes, before I just skip it, and instead go with both chars to same station, and trade it in-between them. What is it about instas, really, that takes up so damn much resources? In my head I would figure it's an item with a unique name, with 3 different coordinate values in it (XYZ). How does having 12 of that make you lag for 20 minutes? Has any of the devs ever expressed the reason for what's so demanding about it? [ore mongers, recruiting]
solidshot Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.15 19:05:00 - [2] Bm's never used to lag in the way that they do now, dunno if their coding has been messed with or something but they have become rediculously laggy in recent times
Dukath	Posted - 2006.10.15 19:13:00 - [3] Think about it like this: There aer 10 bookmarks in total in the game, you want to copy 1 of them. Its very easy to find one single bookmark out of 10. Takes almost no time. Now add 5 billion bookmarks of all the other players. You still want to copy just one. Now the database needs to find that one bookmark out of 5 billion and add one extra to the 5 billion. Of course databases are optimised but even then, the more bookmarks in total, the longer it will take and the more memory it needs. And if it needs too much memory you will start swapping and that is not something you want.
Templer Relleg Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.10.15 19:24:00 - [4] I think its becauseof the datatype, the bookmarks are stored in, theres like 4 parameters at least, that defines a bookmark. Compared to a static value, like a 1mn mwd, this have to retrieve 4 values, from the database. When you search in a SQL database, the larger it gets, the slower it is to retrieve frm. Thus the more bookmarks there are, the longer does it take, to retrieve this dynamic values.
TRYPTIC	Posted - 2006.10.15 19:41:00 - [5] I'm not so sure it's a coding issue anymore. If it is, then the several weeks we have had these traffic and node crash problems points to a pretty weak programming staff at CCP. I'm beginning to wonder if it might be a hardware problem. CCP ballyhooed the installation of all sorts of new hardware. Did they underestimate the demands that would be placed on the hardware? Did they underestimate the growth of the the subscription base? All I know is what I've seen on the starmap, which might not be a very good indicator, but that's all we have atm. Traffic advisories heat up every time the player count goes above approx. 17,000. And, the problem is stable at best, not lessening when there are that many players on-line. I've been playing for well over a year now, and it's becoming pretty discouraging. My hat is off to those of you who have been playing longer than that - you have the patience of a saint. I pay for 2 accounts and expect better service than what I'm receiving now.
Le Donkey	Posted - 2006.10.15 19:47:00 - [6] They could take 24hrs to escrow for all I care if we were to have a lag free game
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.15 20:26:00 - [7] Individual bookmarks as items don't take up a lot of resources, but the vast number of them now in the game does. So CCP have deliberately added a massive slowdown factor to all bookmark operations in an attempt to discourage people from copying them. There's no real reason for it other than CCP desperately trying to rescue their dying hardware
Jones Maloy Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.15 21:12:00 - [8] why don't they make a complete set of bookmarks for all high sec instas in the game, pass it out to everyone, and delete any other bookmark within 30km of a gate? that should take care of a hell of a lot of duplicates, while still not ****ing off the pirates who rely on a hauler without instas for their money. or as i'd like to do a galactic insta initiative. but yeah, pirates hate instas sig indecision...lol Gaming Laptop
Okkie2	Posted - 2006.10.15 21:16:00 - [9] If you jump into a new system the game has to check all your BM's to see if they are BM's for this system. If you have a few thousand BM's and a lot of people changing systems this might need a lot of resources. Don't know if this is what's causing the lag, but it will put some heavy load on the servers.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.15 21:25:00 - [10] ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day.

Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.15 21:26:00 - [11] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 15/10/2006 21:26:09 Sorry double post
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:12:00 - [12] Edited by: MissileRus on 15/10/2006 22:12:21 instas cause high cpu usage ccp have nerfed the abillety to copy lots of them, why it "hangs" when you copy 12 is because 10 is the max now you can copy at once, and even then theres a long wait and thats not lag that wait is there by purpous. theres a nice blogg that explains it all --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Admai Sket	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. Make it Rank 10 as well, so that people who REALLY care about this will spend time training it, but those who are just trying to skip a bit here and there won't bother :-) MY SIG: Linkage Funny thread.
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. /signed
Kinomoto Sakura Amarr Turanic Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.16 01:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. Great idea /signed ---------------- Game The World.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 01:50:00 - [16] Only BM fix I've seen that I like is the "Corp BM" option. A single set covers an entire corperation's needs without haveing 100+ copies of the exact same set clogging up the database doing the same thing as we have now. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Deven Sunstorm Security Forces Domain	Posted - 2006.10.16 01:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Rehmes Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. /signed I agree with making it rank (8) or (10) /signed Deven Sunstorm ***Security Forces Domain -SecFo-
Traxman	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:16:00 - [18] BMs are with XYZ format, and for some system, wounder if there is some kind of exploit of having them client based instead, easy to copy, easy to send to friends and NO lag for servers. Just tell the client where we want to go (XYZ position...).. Anyone thinking about that ? Reinstall = loss of BMs but cant be that hard to restore..
Dax Bandar Gallente Guiding Star The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. No more needless skills are required, there are plenty of time sinks in this game already.
Sarpadeon Freedom Guard Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Traxman BMs are with XYZ format, and for some system, wounder if there is some kind of exploit of having them client based instead, easy to copy, easy to send to friends and NO lag for servers. Just tell the client where we want to go (XYZ position...).. Anyone thinking about that ? Reinstall = loss of BMs but cant be that hard to restore.. if they are on client side then people could modify bookmarks while out of game in the folder they are stored in and create insane offgrid safespots like the old "bookmark a constelation, then use it when i arive for a 200+ AU off from nearest object, unbreakable safe."

Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:46:00 - [21] remove instas altogether tho thats flaame bait so ignore it
Doc Brown Gallente Tyrell Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:51:00 - [22] Hmm.. is it even possible to move BM's into a seperate system that isn't as effected by size as the present SQL solution? _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
foolers	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:25:00 - [23] Quote: Hmm.. is it even possible to move BM's into a seperate system that isn't as effected by size as the present SQL solution? What do you propose as an alternative to an sql database?
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:27:00 - [24] CCP keeping BMs server side to remain secure (security issue if client side)
Shiori Asukai	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Shiori Asukai on 16/10/2006 04:31:12 Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. /Signed - but id rather have it called "Warp Trajectory Calibration" or something cool like ;b Edit - And also, rank 4 is a nice balance between time & effect.
Nunc F	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:47:00 - [26] /signed, but with the additional suggestion that it's a random offset (within the given range) from the target rather than a predictable one, so you can't work round it with instas.
Aaron Static Deep Space Consortium Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:26:00 - [27] couldnt I jus go 30km from the gate, make my insta.. then warp to it at 30km?
lofty29 Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Dax Bandar Originally by: Taram Caldar ALL CCP needs to do is this: 1) Get rid of BM's within 30km of Gates. Period 2) Implement a new skill (Make it a sub skill of Warp Drive Operation, make it require 3 skill in Warp Drive Operation to ulock it) called "Warp Accuracy" New Skill: Warp Accuracy 2.5 km Per Level reduction in distance from target that you can warp in Level 1: Warp within 12.5km becomes available Level 2: Warp within 10km becomes available Level 3: Warp within 7.5km becomes available Level 4: Warp within 5km becomes available Level 5: Warp within 2.5km becomes available Voila... nobody needs Instas anymore. Bubbles and 'dictors can still pull folks outta warp. Low Sec pirates can still prey on 'newbs' because most of them won't have the skill high enough to matter yet. This would allow removal of almost all 'object' oriented instas within the 15km range anywhere. No more need for gate instas or station instas or any other insta in the game because you would innately already have the ability to get them. The game wouldn't need to keep track of the BM's. Problem solved, lag gone. Have a nice day. No more needless skills are required, there are plenty of time sinks in this game already. Buuhuu I didnt train my learning skills and I wanne be able to be invulnerable anywhere? --- Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting!
lofty29 Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:38:00 - [29] Originally by: Aaron Static couldnt I jus go 30km from the gate, make my insta.. then warp to it at 30km? Yep. Make it so there are no BMs within 150km of the gate. At this point it still allows snipers. --- Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting!
Aaron Static Deep Space Consortium Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:50:00 - [30] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Aaron Static couldnt I jus go 30km from the gate, make my insta.. then warp to it at 30km? Yep. Make it so there are no BMs within 150km of the gate. At this point it still allows snipers. fair enuff... /signed then



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