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Insurance of the Crow is a JOKE!!!

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J'Jenksie	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:23:00 - [1] ok here goes, nearly every other ceptor ranges around 6-9mil, apart from tanaris which goes for around 15mil, but the crow 23-30mil is pathetic. I wouldn't mind if insurance goes of a percentage of what you paid, but i buy a crow for 23mil, an get insurance for what 2mil. Yes they are poppers an inty's pop pretty easy, so im bound to lose a few ISK's.. Why so much for a frig people, the prices for a crow are insane. And alot of people say thier **, i for 1 dont think thier **, i think thier the best damn frig out there (part from (assault frigs). Anyways thats my rant ova lol, Do any other in here think the prices for the insurance an the actual ship abit stupid, for how pop prone the ship is ? J'J
Mr Ninjaface Minmatar Shurekin INC	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:29:00 - [2] Insurance on any t2 ship is a joke get use to it
Vendorella University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:30:00 - [3] The ship is so expensive not because of the price to manufacture, but because that is the price the market will bear for that product. If demand drops, then it stands to reason that prices will drop as well. If you don't like the price, don't buy the ship. Insurance only pays costs to manufacture. If you think the Crow is expensive, look at the insurance payout for a HAC (ie. the Deimos) compared to the purchase. If you can't afford to lose it, don't buy it.
Paddlefoot Aeon Neogen Industries Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Vendorella The ship is so expensive not because of the price to manufacture, but because that is the price the market will bear for that product. If demand drops, then it stands to reason that prices will drop as well. If you don't like the price, don't buy the ship. Insurance only pays costs to manufacture. If you think the Crow is expensive, look at the insurance payout for a HAC (ie. the Deimos) compared to the purchase. If you can't afford to lose it, don't buy it. Sorry, forgot to set my main as default.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:35:00 - [5] its tech 2 stop whining
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Vendorella The ship is so expensive not because of the price to manufacture, but because that is the price the market will bear for that product. If demand drops, then it stands to reason that prices will drop as well. If you don't like the price, don't buy the ship. Insurance only pays costs to manufacture. If you think the Crow is expensive, look at the insurance payout for a HAC (ie. the Deimos) compared to the purchase. If you can't afford to lose it, don't buy it. Thats only part of the issue. Even if T2 ships were sold with the same profit margin as T1 ships, the insurance would still cover only a small part of it. This is because the insurance cost/payout is based on mineral costs, and the T2 components arent valued for very much (nowhere near market value), so the payout isnt far above the payout for the T1 hull used in the construction. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:38:00 - [7] market supply and demand and ISK sink get used to it
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.16 03:51:00 - [8] because crows are stupid easy to fly so lots of people fly them and demand is very very high. Leads to price inflation. In rust we trust!!!
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:01:00 - [9] they are still prepared to fly so prices stay where they are supply and demand maybe
Acinonyx Jubatus International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:03:00 - [10] Originally by: J'Jenksie i think thier the best damn frig out there (part from (assault frigs). There you go.... You've got your answer... It's fast. Newbs and vets alike can fly it almost equally due to the lack of tracking need for the missiles. High demand, low supply, jacked up prices.
rodgerd Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:04:00 - [11] Easy, just nerf the Crow until it's only as good as an Ares. Then the price will fall. Problem solved. Oh, I'm sorry, you wanted the uber-Inty for the same price as the mediocre ones? So sorry. Not the opinions of my corp or my alliance.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:05:00 - [12] Welcome to the wonderfull world of T2. Just wait till you try to insure one of the Not-so-popular HACs. :) Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Acinonyx Jubatus It's fast. Newbs and vets alike can fly it almost equally due to the lack of tracking need for the missiles. High demand, low supply, jacked up prices. Ah! You were doing so well until that last remark. When will people realise that T2 prices don't need to be "jacked up", i.e. artificially raised? Supply and demand does that all by itself. "If you kill all the wolves, you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies. And by bunnies I mean stupid people." Ask Ninja
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 04:21:00 - [14] supply and demand based on market forces. CCP need to push t1 on the same direction
Dannek Llama F5 and Associates	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:49:00 - [15] Insurance should work like reverse real world insurance: The safer you are with your stuff, the higher the premium and the lower the payout, the more incredibly stupid you are, the more you get back on it. That way people will be running out to 0.0 to engage in battles with all the pirates complaining about lack of targets. And when the pirates DO get popped, they have to pay hella much becuase they're so er337. Well, I mean, it'd solve the "problem", but no way in hell CCP would do it. -------------------------------------------------------- Working towards my own personal Dreadnought, one ISK at a time.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:55:00 - [16] pirates need a boost not a nerf
Apothos Loot	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:03:00 - [17] Pirates are fine, bounty hunters and low-sec need a boost, but that's a different can of worms. Yeah, I agree that the insurance and prices suck for T2 ships(especially HACs), but in Eve most of the time you get what you paid for, and T2 ships are pretty damn good most of the time, and a lot of fun to fly
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:06:00 - [18] You couldn't have insurance match market prices in any way on T2 since if they did then T2 manufacturers would simply build stuff, insure it, then blow it up. Market cost is way above mineral/manufacturing cost because that's what people are prepared to pay because the supply is limited by the T2 BPO lottery.
Swor Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:06:00 - [19] Welcome to the T2 market! i love how the price of 1MN MWD T2s have risen 2-3mill AKA 40% in 2 months
ArcticFox Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:22:00 - [20] Originally by: keepiru This is because the insurance cost/payout is based on mineral costs, and the T2 components arent valued for very much (nowhere near market value), so the payout isnt far above the payout for the T1 hull used in the construction. Kind sir, please point me in the direction of these people who will pay 2 mil for a Condor. -------------------------- There is only one +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve, and only the lag is allowed to equip it.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Mr Ninjaface Insurance on any t2 ship is a joke get use to it There is no point of insuring T2 even .. I felt warm and fussy inside when I lost my Absolution (costed me 200mil) and payout was 20mil. Yay! Unnerf Amarr!Ö "I read somewhere that Kali will be featuring turn-based combat to increase immersion." ¬ Waagaa Ktlehr
Pabs Sco Caldari Ecosse	Posted - 2006.10.16 06:32:00 - [22] Insurance is not the problem. Its the cost of the ship that is. Insurance covers the minerals needed to build it using NPC base prices. ------
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Pabs Sco Insurance is not the problem. Its the cost of the ship that is. No. There is no problem, period. My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:08:00 - [24] insurance is fine as is
Vince Draken Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Miss Overlord market supply and demand and ISK sink get used to it err no If I had 10 isk everytime someone mentioned an isk sink and were wrong, I'd be a trillionaire. The above thoughts and statements are IC and should be taken as such.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:44:00 - [26] that said any trillionares in game yet
Jane Spondogolo	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Miss Overlord supply and demand based on market forces. CCP need to push t1 on the same direction Nonsense. The T1 market is a good example of a functioning healthy Free market, with a fair degree of production diversity and competition. The T2 market is absolutely riddled with Cartels, price fixing and anti-competitive behaviour (For instance, covops cloak cartel, and swafers attempts to menace competition in the Hulk market a while back. Consequently, the natural dynamics of the market are somewhat broken. More producers = a more responsive market. Monopolies for "essential" items (ie covops cloaks) means the producer, within some rather broad limits, can ask whatever goddamn price he wants and buyer be damned. Thats why in RL govts spend alot of time pursuing monopolists with the full weight of legislation. CCP , I believe are aware of the economic madness in the T2 market, and seem to be interested in repairing it (ie, invention or whatever its called this week). In my opinion, it'd serve the whole game community better just to seed the T2 BPO market at the NPC level, but I can see there would be a lot of angry T2 producers howling that their precious anti-competitive racketeering days would be over.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:26:00 - [28] CCP like the cartels
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:48:00 - [29] Insurance is based on what it takes to build it. If you cannot afford it, bad luck. Also, post in the ship forums, that's what it is there for. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Originally by: Miss Overlord supply and demand based on market forces. CCP need to push t1 on the same direction Nonsense. The T1 market is a good example of a functioning healthy Free market, with a fair degree of production diversity and competition. The T2 market is absolutely riddled with Cartels, price fixing and anti-competitive behaviour (For instance, covops cloak cartel, and swafers attempts to menace competition in the Hulk market a while back. Consequently, the natural dynamics of the market are somewhat broken. More producers = a more responsive market. Monopolies for "essential" items (ie covops cloaks) means the producer, within some rather broad limits, can ask whatever goddamn price he wants and buyer be damned. Thats why in RL govts spend alot of time pursuing monopolists with the full weight of legislation. T1 market... that's a joke right? There is no T1 market. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Tim Raynor	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:56:00 - [31] I, personally, would never insure a tech 2 frigate.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:45:00 - [32] Why not fly Raptor? It is better than Crow. --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind. Pax Caldaria.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:20:00 - [33] Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/10/2006 10:21:16 For those, who moan about the insurance payout of highly demanded tech-2 ships: If you would get high insurance payouts, like 70% of the current price, then more people would fly those ships, they'd use them more often, risk more with them and also lose more. The result would be that the price of these ships increases, until the demands is gone back to current state (= current fixed supply). So you'd gain nothing over time. The only ones, who'd really profit from higher insurance payouts, are the tech-2 ship producers, because the extra-money from higher insurances would end in their pockets. Having a break from EVE until my broadband connection is working again.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:36:00 - [34] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 16/10/2006 10:36:25 nevermind ;p
Cmdr Sy Off Balance Sheet Entity	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:44:00 - [35] Originally by: J'Jenksie Do any other in here think the prices for the insurance an the actual ship abit stupid, for how pop prone the ship is ? That's why it's called an 'elite' frigate. Same principle applies here as in life - if you have to ask, you can't afford it.
Okkie2	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:02:00 - [36] Originally by: keepiru Thats only part of the issue. Even if T2 ships were sold with the same profit margin as T1 ships, the insurance would still cover only a small part of it. This is because the insurance cost/payout is based on mineral costs, and the T2 components arent valued for very much (nowhere near market value), so the payout isnt far above the payout for the T1 hull used in the construction. It's not only part of the issue. T2 components also are more expensive then it the manufacturing cost because of supply/demand.Thereforethe market value of T2 components is also too high compared to the real costs. So if T2 comps and the ships itself were sold at the same profit margins as T1 ships the insurance would cover the price. Main problem whith a higher insurance pay-out is the ships will be more expensive. One because more people are flying them -> more demand, but also the blow-up value will increase -> building the ship and selfdestructing it will give you a higher insurance payout value, so no need to put them on the market and try to sell them.
Ginger Magician Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:19:00 - [37] Well last night I popped a vagabond which was selling in the region for 270mill. That person will have got insurance payment of around 8mill I think with max insurance so he must be crying now.He was in fact His friends in the dominix and the stabber werent very happy either
Nymos Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:34:00 - [38] what? you actually found a crow on the market? where!!? honestly, it's damn hard to even find a crow these days, a simple interceptor that even comes as agent offers sometimes pfft. --
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:35:00 - [39] hey supply drying up as 2-5 month old peeps from the last growth spurt start wanting these hsips 0 enyo prices are falling for some odd reason tho
Ansuru Starlancer The Phoenix Rising Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:46:00 - [40] enyo prices are falling because everybody loves the Ishkur so much. =P
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:54:00 - [41] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/10/2006 11:55:05 There is nothing wrong with insurance values. Scammer gets T2 ship bpo. Scammer's corp owns several pos so he gets components for cheap. Scammer builds, insures and then self destructs the ship - how much insurance should he get - simple - no more than his cost in building. T2 components will have to be priced on a basis of no profit, which is what the NPC market does. That is it - end of story. Otherwise the scammer will build ships for 4mil, sell them on market for 200mil. Buy them with a alt and self destruct to get a free 200mil. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:55:00 - [42] meh it is a tech 2 ship insure has never been any good for them, and for the price you are at the mercy of the ebbs and flows of a dynamic economy, it's part of the game get used to it
Uggster Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.16 12:11:00 - [43] OH MY GODDZZZOORRSSS ALL MY T2 KIT WAS DESTROYED AS WELL AS MY T2 SHIP WHY IS T2 STUFF, LIKE, SO WEAK WHY DOES IT NOT TELEPORT TO MY NEAREST HANGER I MEAN, LIKE, OMGOZORZZZ111 CCP SORT IT OUT OR ILL QUIT AND SO WILL EVERYONE ELSE COS YOPUR ALL THWE SUXXXORRRR1111OMGZZZORRSSS AND DONT KNOW WHATS RUINING THIS GAMEZOOORRZZZZZZZ In case anyone did not know. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Lunachan Minmatar One of These Days	Posted - 2006.10.16 12:22:00 - [44] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/10/2006 10:40:17 For those, who moan about the insurance payout of highly demanded tech-2 ships: If you would get high insurance payouts, like 70% of the current price, then more people would fly those ships, they'd use them more often, risk more with them and also lose more. The result would be that the price of these ships increases, until the demand (at that price) is gone back to current demand (= current fixed supply). To make it clearer: The price for those undersupplied ships will always rise, until the number of interested buyers meets the number of ships put on the market. E.g. for a vagabonds that's around 300mil currently. Make flying vagabonds 50mil cheaper due to better insurance payouts, then the price for a vagabond will rise by roughly 50 mil to bring the numbers of interested buyers back to the same level that we have now. So you'd gain nothing over time. The only ones, who'd really profit from higher insurance payouts, are the tech-2 ship producers, because the extra-money from higher insurances would end in their pockets. A very easy to understand and logical answer. Thank you. 'If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.'
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.10.16 12:24:00 - [45] T2 prices are over inflated, and eveyone knows it. Heres dreaming of Kali and invention......... -----------------------------------------------

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