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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 20:17:00 -
[31]
"Wynter Ivy's corp when we wanted a hq in a system where no-one goes anyways - "Yea, well we would give you the office space but I really cant be bothered to move that far, how about you pay me 10m (or summint silly) and we'll talk"
Then we stole the stuff from the apoc (55m in total we made from your ship btw) "Plz plz plz give us the items back! we'll GIVE you the office you wanted!" - Ofcourse alot of time had passed since we asked, and the office was no longer required by SI :)"
... Doesn't change the fact despite SI claims how no one who pays the ransom ever get podded you did pod and kill the pilot after they paid you, non?..
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.31 20:32:00 -
[32]
When we demand a toll, we require you to pay ALL of it. not just what you can afford and logoff.
Thats not considered "paying the toll"
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Livak
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Posted - 2003.10.31 20:37:00 -
[33]
Mastema, the station issue was a no-brainer. The last that was spoken about that was that we'd need a little time to clean the office out before handing it over. While we were a little slow to do so, it was hardly a reason to simply begin attacking our people without a warning that the NAP was over. Sorry, but that's just no excuse.
Wynter has said her peace on the matter; it was never about the money or the items. It was about honor. Wynter made a mistake and paid a ransom honorably. Don't try to shift the blame to where it isn't due.
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Attica
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Posted - 2003.10.31 20:38:00 -
[34]
 Quote:
Edited by: Hackett on 31/10/2003 16:52:55
Edited by: Hackett on 31/10/2003 16:51:41
Well - the biggest ruck I have been in with Pirates was the other week in FD vs MOO/RUS/TLBC.
There were no exploits, no smack talk and no cheating - just 2 fleets (theirs bigger  ) wanting to bash each other up. Which we did resulting in me losing a ship, but not my life.
So I have no complaints at all about pirates at the moment - the ones I have encontered have been decent enuff.
Edtited twice cos I'm looking at the clock at work
I too was involved in a tuff with the 3 aforementioned groups. I was coming back from a solo farming outting in the cloud ring region and jumped into my Dominix half dead. I couldnt move but sit and watch my ship die. I offered ransome but they refused saying "we're not here for money". I hung around in my pod for a few secs talking to them and not a one tried to kill my pod. Not once did I complain or whine. I can respect a pirate that takes your ship but leaves you to pod fly home. I know some wont agree with the whole "respect" word being used but hey....lets face it...the ones that let you live could do alot worse than just take your ship!! I wish I had captured a screen shot b/c it was an awesome sight to see with all the drones and BS's up my as*. lol
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 20:39:00 -
[35]
Edited by: j0sephine on 31/10/2003 20:39:46
"When we demand a toll, we require you to pay ALL of it. not just what you can afford and logoff."
... Leaving aside questionable point of asking for more money than one can actually pay.. is that original poster telling truth about you changing mind about how much money you want, after your original demand was met without complaint? O.o
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.10.31 20:41:00 -
[36]
Perhaps when you demand a toll, you should demand ALL of it and not up it step by step.
Nevermind that you should at least have given the initial payment back after you killed her. Keeping the money and podding isn't really the trademark of an honorable pirate.
free speech not allowed here |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:03:00 -
[37]
Err the point you dont get is, we're not arguing how to pirate here. When we hold someone up, we're the judge, the jury and the executioner.
We may do WHATEVER we wish. dont try lecturing us on piracy.
But we choose to toll, and let people go. We could just as easy kill on sight.
We stopped a ship, demanded all the money he had upfront to make sure he didnt run, and proceeded to cargo & ship scan him. it turns out he has a 150mil ship, so we demand more. He decides to logoff, we decide to pod.
thats it! if he paid the sum we requested he would be free, anyone think that wouldnt have happened? its the only way its been before.
Dont make up rules about being honorable etc. etc. Pay the toll or die, simple. We dont care about what you think, the facts are simple. If you pay, you'll go free. if you decide you're smart and logoff you'll die.
Sorry no refunds for logging off 
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:11:00 -
[38]
Whichever which way it breaks down, if Wynter Ivy has given a true account of this staged extortion then it makes a lie of Space Invaders "honourable" reputation and means that the thread starter should slash his list of "honourable" pirate corps down to just one.
"Pay me X or I kill you"
"Err okay I will pay X"
(Counts the money)
"Now pay me more ... muhahhahahha!"
Sorry chaps ... but that is a scumbags game without any ifs or buts.
And Viceroy you are utterly full of it.
Last night you preached at me in the Rual character assassination thread;
Quote:
We dont need to prove ourselves on a stupid forum.
We are the only corp that strictly stands by the "tolling" aspect of the game. No one that has payed us ever died.
We have proven ourselves in PvP over and over, we have risked ships against overwhelming odds and won. We have lost plenty of ships, yet never whined.
Actions speak louder than words Jade.
Well need too or not, but you have proved yourself on the forums Viceroy ... proved that you are a lying deceiver and you do kill people who pay.
But lets face it ... thats not news to anyone who reads the rubbish Biobuddy Space Cadets post on a regular basis.
And yes "actions do speak louder than words".
Your actions have chucked away any "honourable" pirate rep you guys pretended to from Setec's day. Congratulations.
JF Public Forum |
Wynter Ivy
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:11:00 -
[39]
Sorry, Livak, just one more post in response to the "telling the truth" post.
This occurred in a private chat so as not to alert players in local:
Mastema > Turn off your engines or you will be destroyed.
Mastema > Give us 50m isk and we'll let you go.
Mastema > Excuse me, but I've got to hurry things along here.
NOTE -- My corp mates had gone node dead here so weren't responding to my requests for the extra cash.
Wynter Ivy > I've only got 22m on me.
-- pause --
Mastema > That's fine.
-- I xfer the money
-- slightly long pause --
Wynter Ivy > Am I free to go?
Mastema > Please stand by...
-- long pause --
Mastema > Holy ****!
Mastema > Give us more now or we will destroy your ship and take your cargo.
Wynter Ivy > You scanned me?
Mastema > Yes.
Wynter Ivy > Did you see what I have?
....
-- I went node dead at this point.
When he said he'd take my "cargo", I didn't realize he'd actually scanned my whole ship. In my cargo I was carrying some agent mission items since I had just graduated from a level 1 to 2 and was moving the "insta-mission" items to the new agent's station. Thus my last question in bewilderment since I was wondering what the hell he wanted with units of Quaffe and stuff like that. Plus I was quite shaken since it was the first time I'd gotten caught. It wasn't until Livak spoke with them later that we realized he'd actually scanned my modules. But like Livak said, it wasn't about the ship or the money.
It was the simple fact that I paid what I could and was not allowed to pass.
With that, I am done.
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Lottsa Pox
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:27:00 -
[40]
Just a thought,
How many of you have seen a pirate in local or a ton of them? Now how many of you sought a CIVIL conversation with one? Starting a conversation with F*** Y** and your a Piece of S*** is probably the last thing you want to do. Try the civil convo you would be surprised at the reaction you will get.
Not saying that pirates dont provoke the knee jerk FU reaction but hey negotiations can start much easier without alot of animosity built up. I know this doesnt work at jump in point camps usually but gate camping or station camping still exist. Most pirates can even get the amount of ransom negotiated down. Hell i let an imicus past me for 80k. Not saying I have a heart just saying the individual was Civil and actually started the negotiations with pleasantries. It is quite a refreshing change.
Enjoy the game, I know I am
Lottsa Pox
Pox to ya Pod
BioMass Cartel
Podding a system near you
Enjoy the game, I know I am
Lottsa Pox
Pox to ya pod
BioMass Cartel
Podding a system near you |
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:41:00 -
[41]
Mr Pox, I'm always the height of manners in local and I must confess I have found an awful lot of pirates to be cheats and scoundrels even so.
For example.
(Approaching the gate at Ewok some time ago)
Phoney from Andreas Pandemonian was in system obviously camping and pimping local for victims.
So I strike up a chat enquiring if he would take a toll for my passage (I was in a slow bestower and really didn't fancy running the blockade without my lifs and custom overdrives)
We have a discussion, set a price, then I made him swear to keep his word - He did. I paid him the ransom 200k ... ;)
So, I make the warp to the gate.
As soon as I hit realspace Phoney starts to lock in his Apoc and I am thinking ... "bugger, how stupid is this going to look on the forums in the morning."
I think I typed "cheeky rascal!" or something in local while gritting my teeth and lighting the shopbought burners.
Fortunately (and somewhat amazingly) the Apoc didn't manage to kill my bestower in 4 volleys of tachyon fire and I reached the gate and jumped.
So much for negotiating with a civil approach!
I think what people need to realise is the golden days of "honourable" pirates are gone forever (if they ever existed) and those who call themselves that today are mostly just wreckers who want to kill ships and take the loot.
Only fools would pay over money to pirate corps and trust their good intentions.*
I think legal starfarers just need to consider themselves at war with pirates and if they get stopped or blocked or trapped its just a war casualty. Take it and move on.
***
*exception still being Jokers .. who I think are playing the game the way Space Invaders used to play it under Setec.
JF Public Forum |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:52:00 -
[42]
once again jade you spin the thread to your own interests.
No one that ever paid space invaders died.
This is true. But it doesnt mean you can send us whatever amount of cash you "see fit". We decide how much you pay. Simple as that.
The Vector incident resulted in podding when the target logged off in the middle of negociations. Too bad, but thats what usually happens when people logoff on us, we dont say "dude he paid half of what we wanted, lets let him go". thats not the way piracy works.
We didnt pod him after he gave us what we wanted, we podded him because he LOGGED OFF while we were STILL negociating. Yeah we wanted more money, because his ship was more valuable than we thought. you blame us for that? pfft.
So spin it Jade, continue spinning it, over and over, the forum war never ends!
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.31 21:53:00 -
[43]
My last conversation with a pirate or actually asking a question in local was him telling me to 'stfu', the wordsmith! 
Convert Stations
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 22:04:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 31/10/2003 22:06:04
Space Invader mathematics class 101:
1
Quote:
No one that ever paid space invaders died.
+
1
Quote:
Wynter Ivy > I've only got 22m on me.
-- pause --
Mastema > That's fine.
-- I xfer the money
-- slightly long pause --
Wynter Ivy > Am I free to go?
Mastema > Please stand by...
-- long pause --
Mastema > Holy ****!
Mastema > Give us more now or we will destroy your ship and take your cargo.
=
5?
Quote:
This is true. But it doesnt mean you can send us whatever amount of cash you "see fit". We decide how much you pay. Simple as that.
She made an offer ... Mastema said "fine"; he took the cash, then got greedy and renaged on the deal.
Quote:
you blame us for that? pfft.
Nope, I blame you for trying to pretend to be what you are not. You are dishonest scamsters and scum ... providing homes for corp thieves, exhorting beyond agreed deals, falsely accusing people of lying and then going smack-happy to cover up your mistakes ...
Sorry Viceroy ... but your corp is scum.
(in-game of course)
I am sure you are all lovely in real life and are just roleplaying being arrogant numpties and teenage tosspots.
Love and peace
JF Public Forum |
DATEK
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Posted - 2003.10.31 22:09:00 -
[45]
Honorable Pirates? You can paint sh*t a pretty color, but its still sh*t.
I got your toll, right here. Greif to the griefers.
DATEK
CEO, Frog Morton Industries |
Lianhaun
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Posted - 2003.10.31 22:30:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Lianhaun on 31/10/2003 22:31:05
Can't agree with the initial post regarding Space Invaders. I had just blown a wad on some implants for myself (this was about a month ago or more when you could still get some of those initial drop perception-altering implants for a decent price). And I got caught in a blockade by SI when I was stupidly auto-piloting around without paying attention. Had 22mil left after the implant purchaces and gave it up without any hassle. Then they scanned my Apoc and saw the equipment I had just gotten from a lucky hunting spree in Stain and demanded more. If that isn't retarded I don't know what is. Why should my equipment have anything to do with how much money I have? Sadly my corp mates had just dropped offline by a node crash that affected me a minute later but not the SI guys. My ship was destroyed and I was podded pi$$ing away the implants.
To add insult to injury, my corp had a NAP with Setec after a big mineral deal we had done with them. When my CEO very diplomatically contacted them about this, he was told to go f*ck himself.
I don't mind the piracy or the getting caught by them: it was my own stupid fault for not paying attention and checking the map. But their demanding more money after I paid up and then podding me despite my appearing to log off ON TOP of the NAP is what really got my goat. So I rate SI as quite dishonorable.
If I ever get caught by them again I would destroy my ship before giving them anything.
Your first offer was too low, thats why the negotiating went further. We always ship and cargo scan if we have the chance, but it takes some time before these scans are completed.
Its Space Invaders policy to kill anyone who logs off before negotiating is over. This has been the case ever since people log off too try and escape ( your ships vanishes).
It may be unfortunate for you, because as you say you didn't logg off on purpose. But it happend.
Personally I regret that your node died, I'm fairly sure that if you stayed online, and talked more you and Mastema would have agreed on a deal that would have satiesfied both parties.
I will test on chaos what happends if you go offline and come back, if autopilot switches on immediatly or if you stay on for a few seconds.
I'm sorry this has happend
This is not a hijack
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 22:37:00 -
[47]
"I will test on chaos what happends if you go offline and come back, if autopilot switches on immediatly or if you stay on for a few seconds."
... I think if your connection crashes then the ship continues to perform the commands it was told to do before the crash -- be it moving, shooting or whatever. It happened to me today while i had my ship set to orbit another vessel. After re-logging i found my ship still doing those loops just like i left it. O,o
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2003.10.31 22:42:00 -
[48]
even when the other ship was not there? o-0
If thats that the case, I doubt much will change 
I'll still test it, with some other ships around me. If it takes a few seconds before space is loaded then we could have a lock on again.
This is not a hijack
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 22:47:00 -
[49]
"even when the other ship was not there? o-0"
Hmm no; my ship was orbitting the other one, and when i crashed my ship didn't apparently disappear, but remained in space doing whatever it was told to do before the crash occured ^^;;
... Meaning, if you have someone locked and scrambled and whatnot then their ship probably remains like that even when they crash... but since the person disappears from local then there's no way to tell it from the 'normal' logging, so you would be forced to shoot it anyway i guess...
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PoXiE
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:02:00 -
[50]
why would you pay 22mil to pass thru a gate.
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Kasha
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:13:00 -
[51]
Quote:
why would you pay 22mil to pass thru a gate.
To save your ship , modules, cargo, implants worth over 150 million.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:16:00 -
[52]
Well it didn't help now did it...
Convert Stations
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:19:00 -
[53]
makes you feel extra stupid and doubly betrayed to be blown to bits because the pirates don't like the first "deal" they negotiated ...
JF Public Forum |
Dreez
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:34:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Dreez on 31/10/2003 23:35:17
SI are chicken****s.. and uttery SCUM - they
try to bluff us that they got balls when they
all are accually hiding behind their Big mouth
and numbers.
They act with no respect to other players
and should recive no respect - when i hear
about SI i think of Bullies.. Big mouth
but when no one to back them up 
Face me 1 on 1 and weŚll see who has the balls.
 .
There are pirates i like , and those i dont.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:47:00 -
[55]
SI are just like any other pirates - they're just smart enough to make you think otherwise.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sally
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Posted - 2003.10.31 23:47:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Edited by: Dreez on 31/10/2003 23:35:17
SI are chicken****s.. and uttery SCUM - they
try to bluff us that they got balls when they
all are accually hiding behind their Big mouth
and numbers.
They act with no respect to other players
and should recive no respect - when i hear
about SI i think of Bullies.. Big mouth
but when no one to back them up
Face me 1 on 1 and weŚll see who has the balls.
.
There are pirates i like , and those i dont.
Whatever.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.11.01 00:04:00 -
[57]
Interesting indeed.
Well, here is how i view this situation between Ivy and Mastema for what it is worth.
I think(correct me if i am wrong) it is the goal of SI to get as much money as possible from every encounter. If i were a pirate the formula i would use would be something like this:
if the ship is destroyed:
(1)pilot stands to lose: ship + mods + cargo
(2)pirate stands to gain: some mods + some cargo
since (1) > (2) the pirate can ask for a ransom somewhere greater then the value of (2) and less then the value of (1), and expect many players to pay it(myself included if i feel confident the pirate will let me go afterwards), this is what makes ransoming more profitable then just plain ganking, and it is why you want to encourage as many players to pay the ransom as possible if you are a pirate. To do this you must convince the players that by paying the ransom they will be free to go. This is best done by establishing a reputation for keeping your word in these types of situations.
What the pirate absolutly does not want to do is ask for a ransom less then the value of (2). This is elementary since he can just destroy the ship and make more isk off the loot.
The situation with Ivy i believe was a fluke. Mastema set the ransom value at less then (2), upon realizing his mistake he intended on correcting it, but before he could Ivy either logged off or crashed. Now you do not have time to think only react, and for a veteran gamer the choice is was simple, follow SOP, destroy the logger.
You have been forced into destroying the other players ship when that was not what you wanted. Now you are faced with another choice. You can either A) give the 22M back to the logger to maintain other players confidence in your willingness to keep your word when you ransom, or B)Screw the logger and just hope that it doesn't taint peoples willingness to pay your ransoms.
Short term B was more profitable, but by choosing it Ivy's corp will never pay an SI ransom again, and possibly a reader of these forums might be swayed just enough to do the same.
SI can do whatever they please. But as I see it, in this situation SI did not act in their own best interests, were it me i would have given the 22M back with an explaination of why i had done what i had done, and been happy with the 55M i got off the equipment. This way Ivy's corp would probably be willing to pay all tolls in the future.
Now i am no pirate, and i have no experience participating in piracy, so i could very well have my head firmly planted up my ass with this theory about pirating. This situation might very well have been a fluke. I guess it is up to each individual player to decide.
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Patrin Burzmali
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Posted - 2003.11.01 00:20:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Patrin Burzmali on 01/11/2003 00:20:39
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Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.11.01 00:26:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Whichever which way it breaks down, if Wynter Ivy has given a true account of this staged extortion then it makes a lie of Space Invaders "honourable" reputation and means that the thread starter should slash his list of "honourable" pirate corps down to just one.
Jade,
I am not changing my original post as i treat the information i get off the forums as second hand information only, that i keep in the back of my mind to optimize my success in game. My in-game experience with SI has not changed. Although you can be assured that I and my corpmates will have something else to think about next time SI catches any of us(Last time i was caught by SI was late July).
_________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Torik
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Posted - 2003.11.01 02:27:00 -
[60]
No player will pay a toll to a pirate if he believes that the pirate will pod him anyway. SI has developed a reputation for keeping their word as long as the toll is paid. Negotiating a deal and then requesting more when the victim pays up is just not kosher.
Maybe the SI member made a mistake when he said "that's fine" to the initial offer. However, once he agreed to the deal and got the money, he should have stuck with the initial deal.
If SI wants to keep its reputation as a pirate corp that can be negotiated with, they have to make sure that its members stick to deals they negotiate and not get greedy. If they keep performing acts that go against their reputation, they will quickly lose that reputation and never regain it. Then no one will pay them tolls ever.
SI are pirates and can do whather they want. However, if they want us to treat them different then the average scum pirate, they need to enforce their rules on their members.If they want to be 'businessman pirates' they better behave like businessmen.
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