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Why is the Raven so bad for Solo PVP? (rate me)

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Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:19:00 - [1] Why is the Raven so bad for PVP? No matter what set up I post for PVP in my Raven someone comes back and tells me that it sucks or would get smoked. I donÆt get it at all. I can solo Level 4Æs with these set ups, tanking 4 and 5 BS at a time, but vs a Human I would die? I know the Raven is best suited for Small GangÆs (3 û 8 members) and sees a lot of fleet action spamming missiles. But Solo PVP seems like a HUGE mistake according to everyone. Here is the set up I use for PVE Raven 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xCataclysm Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xCataclysm Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xCataclysm Cruise Missile] Large Rudimentary Concussion Bomb I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Active Hardener (T2) Active Hardener (T2) Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Passive Hardener (T2) Passive Hardener (T2) 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Internal Force Field Array I I change up the resists according to what I might be going up against. This is just a general idea of the set up. This thing tanks like mad and allows me to pick off targets over 100+ km away. Very expensive set up, but it pays off. Here is a set up I though about using for PVP, so please rate it and let me know what you think. I donÆt have the skills for T2 Launchers or Ammo yet, I went Tank before Gank, but shortly I will have access to T2 launchers and Ammo. Raven 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I [23xWrath Cruise Missile] Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [4xCap Booster 800] Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster 'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration 'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Mark I Generator Refitting: Reaction Control I have tried a few different versions with quick fit, trying to use Torps but I find that I just donÆt have the PG or CPU to fit it the way I would like, so I went with CMÆs instead. I know that I will never be taking on someone at 70+ kms so I built this set up to work without a sensor booster. Not believe in WCS so donÆt bother mentioning them. What I want are some ideas of what would make a powerful Raven for Solo PVP. IÆll work my skills to meet the needed requirements of the Perfect Solo PVP Raven. Please Rate my load outs and then let me know what would make the PVP load out better. Also the PVP set up is already over a Billion ISK according to current escrow prices. I would like to keep this Raven under 1.5 billion please. ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:29:00 - [2] Why. Oh God Why. Why would you fit a pandemonium? RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:32:00 - [3] I'll tell you what you could change, drop all the very expensive modules. PVP to me is about not being hesitant to engage and fighting to the death, so you should be prepared to lose your ship unless you only engage when the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, and then that's not PVP its just the usual group slaughter (IMHO). If I fit that much money in modules on my ship, I'd be loathe to undock it to PVP. I don't care how much money you have, if you lose several ships all fitted like that, it all adds up. That or I'm just a tightwad. But the day I realized fighting was basically the same with rat loot as it was with expensive modules, is the day I started having a lot more fun. Much less PVP stress.
Ejderdisi	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:41:00 - [4] hmm at least 1 major problem in med slots : no any warp scramblers... and if it's solo PvP u need to scram them. Solo PvP in raven is not that bad, just very slow. Warping around asteroid belts to catch your prey is tiresome. And the sight of raven is mostly intimidating (uber ghost stories of PWNmobile )so most ppl will runaway before your so long targeting takes place.. and btw how u can keep someone with you at 70km for a fight that they will lose? U need scramblers and forget about sniping in a missile ship.
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:54:00 - [5] A Cruise Missile Raven has the damage Output of a Thorax. A Torp Raven can maybe hit a Brutix. More Reasons?
Zosimos Sabina Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:58:00 - [6] Javelin torpedoes do more than scratch battlecruisers... Cruise missiles go out to 180km unlike thorax which goes out to what, 2000? Regardless, Raven is not bad PVP. In fact, it's awesome, champion of small gang ships. People say it sucks at solo work, but most battleships do. HACs and interceptors are the much more obvious choice if you want to solo since YOU WILL GET BLOBBED and have to run eventually. And battleships are sloooow.. esp. the Raven. Unless you stay aligned to a SS and log every time you get in danger. Yawn.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.17 23:02:00 - [7] 1) I love my BCU's I can use BCU II's but I bought all kinds of 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement before I could use them, since they are almost exactly the same as the T2's I use the 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement's. 2) I know how stupidly $$$ this set up is, I am lucky I fly with it at all, but the whole point is that I want to be able to tank the damage to take the target down. With this set up my Gisti B-Type XL Shield Booster gets me 940+ Damage Regen ever 4 seconds. Thats 235 regen a second and that is able to be sustained until I run out of Cap Charges or about 2+ mins with out cap charges. 3) Oops I forgot the Scram... Okay drop one of the boost amps and add a 20km scram. 4) If I only used T2 gear and no really expensive gear (so no 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement's ) can someone please build me a disposible Raven that would do okay in Solo. Thanks ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.17 23:04:00 - [8] Quote: Javelin torpedoes do more than scratch battlecruisers... Cruise missiles go out to 180km unlike thorax which goes out to what, 2000? Quote: I donÆt have the skills for T2 Launchers or Ammo yet, I went Tank before Gank, but shortly I will have access to T2 launchers and Ammo. If he had the skills, yea the t2 raven is a very good BS but t1 weapon fitted ravens are just meatshields. _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.17 23:06:00 - [9] There is no perfect solo PvP setup because crucial tackling equipment conflicts with your tank. Whatever you do you'll be lacking in one aspect or other. For group PvP... the "perfect" Raven would have mids full of ECM. The perfect Raven, however, would have a spiffing tank instead.
Areconus Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.17 23:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Majin82 1) I love my BCU's I can use BCU II's but I bought all kinds of 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement before I could use them, since they are almost exactly the same as the T2's I use the 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement's. 2) I know how stupidly $$$ this set up is, I am lucky I fly with it at all, but the whole point is that I want to be able to tank the damage to take the target down. With this set up my Gisti B-Type XL Shield Booster gets me 940+ Damage Regen ever 4 seconds. Thats 235 regen a second and that is able to be sustained until I run out of Cap Charges or about 2+ mins with out cap charges. 3) Oops I forgot the Scram... Okay drop one of the boost amps and add a 20km scram. 4) If I only used T2 gear and no really expensive gear (so no 'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement's ) can someone please build me a disposible Raven that would do okay in Solo. Thanks You see, the problem is, sooner or later, no matter how good the modules you fit are, you will die. And when this time comes, you will wish you had fitted cheaper gear, regardless of how rich you are, because as said above, it will add up. And, sooner or later, you will realise it is best not to fit such expensive gear....I mean, 2x DG Invul!? Gloria Stitz- "Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously"
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.17 23:27:00 - [11] Edited by: CherniyVolk on 17/10/2006 23:31:55 To the poster. Ravens are OK at PvP, just as any other ship when properly fit and flown. Infact, Ravens are able to pose a serious threat. OK, here's the no-BS assessment of the Raven in PvP environments. Ravens are common, becuase Caldari is common, and (regardless of what others my say) are easiest to train up and be "useful" as far as damage output. The problem is, at some level and discipline, every other race will eventually catch up, and in many ways surpass damage abilities of missiles. Most Turret based pilots focus heavily and take every Gunnery skill very seriously. I would say a lot of Caldari pilots, through the benefit of ability, figure they have good DPS and become casual in training their Missile skills, Missile support skills etc. So it really has nothing to do with numerical abilities of the ship. Just the odds that the pilot is a noob and will be an easy kill. The most common battleship I've killed... the Raven. Now... when it comes to "PvP", here's another reality and probably why a lot of people say they would crush your setup. "PvP", or 0.0 "PvP" is a lot of high-skilled, T2 weaponry among other things; even T1 cruisers in 0.0 are often T2 fitted. Your Weaponry is not T2, and inspite what some might lead you to believe, there is a big difference in T2 Missile Launchers and Arbalast Missile Launchers.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.18 00:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Majin82 but the whole point is that I want to be able to tank the damage to take the target down. With this set up my Gisti B-Type XL Shield Booster gets me 940+ Damage Regen ever 4 seconds. Thats 235 regen a second and that is able to be sustained until I run out of Cap Charges or about 2+ mins with out cap charges. Oops I forgot the Scram... Okay drop one of the boost amps and add a 20km scram. Ooo...kay, let's see. First off, engaging any untackled target in a Raven results in a target that either warps out, or sticks around of its own free will (either stupid, then you get the kill... or smart, and they YOU are dead). Well, 235 regen per second ain't that bad (with 40/80/60/50 resists or so), but let's say even if you don't get NOSed to death (and even NOS some yourself to keep it sustainable), that's still somewhere around 500 DPS you can tank on average long-term (and about 35k alpha-strike HPs total over shield+armor+hull), while dishing out what, under 400 DPS ? With weapons on that both high target speed and target small sigradius reduce damage ? Heck, you might even have a surprise death from a Wolf/Jaguar that way. And that's without tackling gear fitted, redo the math. For solo PvP, one expects to see either alpha-strike-kills setups (not very likely in a T1 Raven), or web+scram in mids (nasty on tankability) and very high DPS (again, not very likely in a T1 Raven). Either that, or get ganged up with a tackler with web+scrambler... but that's not solo anymore, is it ? Also, you forgot the almighty ECM. YOu don't have any ECM nor any ECM defence. Encounter a pathtic Griffin with multispectral and you have a pretty good chance it will get away... or worse (get tackled, get jumped by his gang later). ___ So in conclusion, Raven is NOT a ship for solo-PvP, as it lacks the capability to do even two of three things properly at the same time: tackle, tank, gank. It might tank, but then it won't tackle (or vice-versa), and the "gank" part is lacking either way. Raven is a good ship for SMALL gang PvP (emphasis on gang). __ Always question everything. Including yourself.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 00:32:00 - [13] There are 2 solutions for PVP raven , either T1 missiles or T2 setups With T1 missle setup ur dmg is crappy compared to t2 and u will rely heavily on ECM or damps to nullify ur target and forget about midslto tank. 6 cruise 1 large nos 1 med 1 AB or mwd 1 target painter 1 20 km scram 3 ECM or damps which ever u can use. 1 large rep 2 EAN 1 large plate 1 signal amp 5 medium t2 drones or a torp raven 6 torps 1 large nos 1 mwd 1 cap inj 1 scram 2 target painter 1 ECM or damp 1 large rep 1 large plate 1 EAN 1 BCU 1 signal amp 5 droens if ur gonan play with cruise no need to worry about speed or rof in comparison to torps , crusie are faster and higher ROF , with T2 torps if ur mwd kicks u real clsoe to ur target rage torps will come handy with the 2 paitners u will do prob same or mroe dmg than Bthron with neutrons ofc it will differ if ur target has what tank regardign what torps ur firing. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"
OldPueblo Gallente Defenders of Order New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.18 02:08:00 - [14] I forgot to add, good call with the smartbomb. Your best anti-drone weapon in my opinion.
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.18 02:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Majin82 Why is the Raven so bad for PVP? The answer to your question lies in your fittings. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Sovereign533 Caldari 133rd Ghost Wing	Posted - 2006.10.18 03:06:00 - [16] 6x Siege Launchers (2em, 2thermal, 2 kinetic) 1 XLarge Shield Booster II 1 Shield Boost Amplifier 1 Photon Scattering Field I 2x Invulnerbility Field I 1x Heavy Cap Booster with Cap800 charges 1x co-processor I (or some named one) 1x Power Diagnostic System I (or some named one) 3x Ballistic Control System I this setup uses a lot of Powergrid and CPU... with Advanced Weapon Upgrades lvl 4, Electronics lvl 5 and Engineering lvl 5, it can be fitted... does loads of damage... and can also tank quite a bit... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... i'm 1337 now
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.18 05:03:00 - [17] caldari suck at solo 10x time more than amarr. u can't be serious in SOLO raven.. u need a tackler[s]. Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Semkhet The Priory Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.18 07:17:00 - [18] Probably the best solo PvP BS is the Dominix. Now go to study good Domi setups as posted on this forum, compare to the Raven and draw your own logical conclusions.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.18 07:21:00 - [19] Well, the fact that you have gistii and dread guristas stuff in your PvP fit really isn't a good start. PvP is about replacable losses, and basically fitting 'good enough' that you don't have to replace that often :). Their major weaknesss soloing is that web/scram (e.g. stuff to stop people leaving) cut directly into tanking. The only real solution is armour tanking, but then that drops your adequate DPS down to 'mediocre'.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.18 10:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Sovereign533 6x Siege Launchers (2em, 2thermal, 2 kinetic) 1 XLarge Shield Booster II 1 Shield Boost Amplifier 1 Photon Scattering Field I 2x Invulnerbility Field I 1x Heavy Cap Booster with Cap800 charges 1x co-processor I (or some named one) 1x Power Diagnostic System I (or some named one) 3x Ballistic Control System I this setup uses a lot of Powergrid and CPU... with Advanced Weapon Upgrades lvl 4, Electronics lvl 5 and Engineering lvl 5, it can be fitted... does loads of damage... and can also tank quite a bit... Solo? And interceptor or two will kill you with easy.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.18 10:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel or a torp raven 6 torps 1 large nos 1 mwd 1 cap inj 1 scram 2 target painter 1 ECM or damp 1 large rep 1 large plate 1 EAN 1 BCU 1 signal amp It is impossible to create such fittting. Just impossible Even with t2 RCU and t2 Coprocessor and Advanced weap upgrade
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.18 11:12:00 - [22] the gist b-type x-large mwd shouldn't be fit on this setup... get t2 launchers/BCU's or faction or you'll waste an expensive mod
Sovereign533 Caldari 133rd Ghost Wing	Posted - 2006.10.18 13:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Sovereign533 6x Siege Launchers (2em, 2thermal, 2 kinetic) 1 XLarge Shield Booster II 1 Shield Boost Amplifier 1 Photon Scattering Field I 2x Invulnerbility Field I 1x Heavy Cap Booster with Cap800 charges 1x co-processor I (or some named one) 1x Power Diagnostic System I (or some named one) 3x Ballistic Control System I this setup uses a lot of Powergrid and CPU... with Advanced Weapon Upgrades lvl 4, Electronics lvl 5 and Engineering lvl 5, it can be fitted... does loads of damage... and can also tank quite a bit... Solo? And interceptor or two will kill you with easy. hehe, it was late... and i missed the word 'solo' Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... i'm 1337 now
Moyra Rumsfeld	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Hydrian Alante A Cruise Missile Raven has the damage Output of a Thorax. A Torp Raven can maybe hit a Brutix. More Reasons? HAHAHAA, you either have like under 100k sp in missiles, or don't know what ballistic controls are or you never saw a raven before. Torp Raven maybe hit a Brutix - how noobish can people be ?
Zekk Pacus Caldari StateCorp	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:01:00 - [25] The problem is that a torp raven can only really engage other battleships, and a cruise raven's damage output isn't that fearsome. But it's an incredibly useful solo ship if you know what you're up against. I tend to go: 6x Cruise 1x 100mn AB 1x 20km scram 1x Fleeting web (vagabonds don't like it) 1x sensor booster 2x ECM of choice (damps are most useful, see Burn Eden) 2x EANM II 1x LAR 2x BCU II It's very hard to fit, especially if you intend on fitting nos or other in the highs. I generally use it against Vagas, in which case I drop the sensor damps for more Webs, and carry some webbing drones.
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:09:00 - [26] The only thing that makes the raven bad for solo PvP is that fact that its pathetically slow. But if you can convince targets to come to you, it owns.
Jippy Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:37:00 - [27] Edited by: Jippy on 18/10/2006 15:38:35 Some point thats need to be made so that you will understand how to Solo PvP, primarily against equal sized opponents. Otherwise, if you are worried about cruisers and such then you can figure that out on your own. Most important. You need to scramble them. That is one slot. You need to be able to get in range. This requires a MWD typically. That is your second mid-slot. DPS. You do not need to do an amazing amount of DPS to a Battleship to kill it as long as ... You can break the other person's tank first. Usually this is accomplished with NOS/Neuts and using a Cap Booster of your own. That is your third mid-slot gone on your Raven. Ok. Now that leaves you with 3 slots on your Raven which can be used for ECM modules typically. The problem with the Caldari Ships is they have the lowest amount of PG of all Battleships, hence it is very much a ***** to fit a full rank of Siege with Nos/Neut. Another note, missiles do not do the greatest DPS, so if you want to work on battleships, you need to fit Arbies, dont sweat the tech II missiles, they are unnecessary, seriously. Javelins decrease your speed too much which you will need to ensure the other ship is tackled. Rage Torpedos require the use of Target Painter, usually 4 target painters are required to blow up a Battleships' signature to match the Explosion Radius of the Rage Torpedo. Anyway, I do not have any solution's to your problem man. I just wanted to input my thought about this subject. I have spent many hours working on something that had the same efficiency as a Domi/Typhoon for the Raven. But I haven't found it yet bud. Now you can certainly create a badass Raven setup that will make everyone run away! But I don't think that is what you are looking for :)
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:39:00 - [28] Edited by: welsh wizard on 18/10/2006 15:43:14 To solo in a raven you'd need to use Javelin to stand a chance against most BS over a variety of ranges. Unfortunately Javelin is a defensive tech II ammo and it nerfs your speed severely. No speed = no tackle In other words if the opponent doesn't like how the fight is going they have a very good chance of simpily running away and leaving you coughing in a cloud of dust. How do you stop your enemy getting away? Bring a mate in a faster ship. As for using cruise you'll get battered by anyone with relatively good skills in another kind of BS. Because unless you have Cruise Spec IV and all the support skills to IV+ you just don't do enough damage. You'll be good at killing cruisers though. :D edit: Obviously the things I've said above aren't absolutely what is going to happen everytime you try to engage in your Raven. Best thing to do is go out there and try it for yourself before this thread dissolves into a 'nerf Javelin' thread. Advice on these forums is hard to come by because everyones got a different opinion. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Lexor SLice Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 17:05:00 - [29] 6x siege II 2x medium nos 100mn mwd II 1x sensor booster II 4x Hypnos multispecs 1x med rep II 1x dmg control 3x bcu II ____________________________________________
Saundra Fayid	Posted - 2006.10.18 17:41:00 - [30] Ravens suck at PvP because, as so many have already labored, you cant tackle... if you cant tackle you cant kill most of the time. most people recognize superior firepower and run like hell. So for a Raven to be PvP uber you dont need mods you need friends... hi > cruise & nos mids > tank los > BCU, DCU, whatever.

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