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Wierd Beard Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:40:00 - [61] Pure Comedy Gold Btw...wasn't it Nez that pushed NBSI in Querious? Oh yea...and the 3 point plan. Manipulating council members by telling them that everyone but them was already on the bandwagon, so better get on or be left behind. And now. All alone. No corp mates to boss around. No alliance to beat your chest over. You've become the Rush Limbaugh of Eve. A powerless obese troll gobbling heroic amounts of Vicodin yet leading the war on drugs. A pundit commenting on every aspect of a world that you no longer participate in. Hypocracy, thy name be Nez Perces.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.23 21:49:00 - [62] Edited by: Nez Perces on 23/10/2006 21:50:03 Originally by: Wierd Beard Hypocracy, thy name be Nez Perces. don't you mean hypocrisy? If you are gonna pretend to be wordsworth at least check your spelling.. You know what is comedy gold.. your signature.. its very fitting. Its commendable that you feel the need to run onto the forums to protect your master... but the damage has already been done....
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:02:00 - [63] Odd... How is it that despite my presence in leadership, FIX did ok... yet shortly after I had little involvement we had zero friends in Eve, everybody and their mother trying to kick down the gates to 9CG, and corps bailing out left and right because they were sick of the internal situation in FIX... which I was no longer a part of??? Fully NBSI throughout Eve, which we should never have been, we managed to **** everyone in creation. Yup... I recall being against that. Hey.. wasn't that a part of your 3 point plan? You know the one I refer to ofc.. wow, resounding success that brainchild of yours was. I seem to recall dropping my JCoS position over it because there was no way in hell I'd support it. Discussion on the plan was held between you and each corp in secret of course, stamping out general discussion completely.... another first for FIX... and your idea too! Dude, you like got it all figured out. Heck, I even remember taking a break after that from Eve. The ball was all in your hands, you had total control. I leave leadership, you force through several changes I'm against, FIX gets into more fights than we can handle, internal FIX relations fall into the dumpster, corps leave FIX... Yup. Good job on leading FIX man. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back as you tell yourself that you lead FIX into greatness, pandering up to the few and segregating the majority. You're like the second coming of Winston S. man! Nez, you took a break from Eve, by choice, because you couldn't handle the massive mess you had created. Nothing quite like letting you take the reigns and proving your truth worth. PS. I am most very capable of handling my own matters... but can you blame the ol' WB for wanting to stick your nose in it when you can't see what's in front of your own eyes. Read the thread again Nez... take a close look at how well your arguements are holding up as they get taken apart piecemeal and you have to resort to antics to try to keep your head above water. Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:09:00 - [64] the problem will always be who defends when your attacked. If guests simply use n' abuse, be convieniently absent when enemies do come for eg they offer nothing and take everything. Only possible concept is that of paid passes like the fountain of old used to do quite well, where you allow people in, as long as they behave and pay for the privledge. Not free space, but probably as close as your going to get.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Selpy Originally by: Droewa ..... so.. who won? I didn't :( 1 too high Ok... Swindon had 9... Selpy had 11... who the heck had 10 damnit? It's killin' me! Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:14:00 - [66] Originally by: Hakera the problem will always be who defends when your attacked. If guests simply use n' abuse, be convieniently absent when enemies do come for eg they offer nothing and take everything. Only possible concept is that of paid passes like the fountain of old used to do quite well, where you allow people in, as long as they behave and pay for the privledge. Not free space, but probably as close as your going to get. Renters then. Definately one of the most attractive options out there. Someone generally has to keep the house clean. Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Machiavelli7 Gallente Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:25:00 - [67] Actually Avernus, many of the corps left FIX coz you were caught shampooing your crotch. This ain't the forum tho Back to the OP, free space doesn't work because of greed and envy. Oh & Weirdy - stop it you'll make me wet myself.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Machiavelli7 Actually Avernus, many of the corps left FIX coz you were caught shampooing your crotch. This ain't the forum tho Back to the OP, free space doesn't work because of greed and envy. Oh & Weirdy - stop it you'll make me wet myself. Dude! You stole my line! (Actually it was WB's line, I stole it from him) Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Machiavelli7 Gallente Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:41:00 - [69] On another note Avie, spare the soapbox ranting.. Originally by: Avernus My principals have never changed, and never will That's balls Av and you know it and 100's of other ex-FIX pilots know it. I once knew an Avernus who wouldn't swallow the 12 inch arrangement with BoB that you currently do. Now you and Nez have firsthand experience of what you're both arguing about. Rather than putting a rose-tinted veil on your actions (both of you!) how about trying to learn from some of your less-than-illustrious decisions? Tying this back to the OP - you tried managing some free space in Catch, Av, which was spectularly unsuccessful and directly led to the ISS first outpost establishment, and the failure to secure the eastern border. With hindsight, the pursuit of 'managed' free space cost FIX dear.
EnglishBob 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:49:00 - [70] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Selpy Originally by: Droewa ..... so.. who won? I didn't :( 1 too high Ok... Swindon had 9... Selpy had 11... who the heck had 10 damnit? It's killin' me! Saal had 10, If they are all shifting down one to account for the op. I had 3, how overconfident was that? /EnglishBob curses Avernus! ------------------
Wierd Beard Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:53:00 - [71] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Machiavelli7 Actually Avernus, many of the corps left FIX coz you were caught shampooing your crotch. This ain't the forum tho Back to the OP, free space doesn't work because of greed and envy. Oh & Weirdy - stop it you'll make me wet myself. Dude! You stole my line! (Actually it was WB's line, I stole it from him) Actually that line originally belongs to Darien. Most of my quoteable quotes have something to do w/ gender confusion or various orifices and the placement of house pets within them.
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 22:53:00 - [72] Next time I wanna bet - but I would have went for 5 or 6 /me puts on more popcorn... "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
Hardin Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:00:00 - [73] Edited by: Hardin on 23/10/2006 23:03:28 Originally by: Nez Perces .... something just ocurred to me, doesn't free space seem like flavour of the month right now? No it has not suddenly become flavour of the month. It is an ideology that has never gone away. For almost two years now the CVA has maintained an NBSI policy in our space. The only people who were unwelcome are Minmatar terrorists, pirates or anyone who has aggressed against CVA in the past. Others like Ushra'Khan, IAC, Huzzah and NOS have also operated non-NBSI policies. If people now notice this more it is simply because the above entities have gained more prominence in galactic events recently (through no choice of their own). Originally by: Nez Perces Well there has been UK fighting the "ebil" pirates in 9uy, and ISS fell over backwards to help them. Even CVA couldn't help but drop the RP and rush to support their sworn enemies. I did answer this at the time but obviously you missed it. The CVA took no part in the 9UY campaign - on either side. We did step up anti-pirate patrols in low-sec Amarrian space due to Amarrian residents requesting our assistance as the pirates assaulting the UK Outpost were also preying on neutrals in Amarrian space. It is the CVA's long term goal to capture the Minmatar Outpost for itself and we could see no benefit in assisting a pirate coalition (many of whom are also enemies of the CVA) to take it. Better the enemy you know and all that! Since the end of the 9UY 'issue' the CVA and UK have been testing each other's defences regularly. It's actually good fun and keeps our pilots on their toes Originally by: Nez Perces Then ofc there is the IAC, who suddenly had a million and one friends to call upon once their outpost was threatened, including CVA who again 'dropped' the RP to fly alonsided sn-iggerdly and people like The Priory. Again your intelligence on this subject is sadly lacking as there was a long standing link between the IAC and CVA. They didn't 'suddenly' have friends to call upon as they had had those friends for a long time. Indeed, I can actually remember being part of a CVA fleet that escorted the 'egg' for the very first IAC Outpost down to Catch. It just happens that this was the first time when there was sufficient need to 'activate' the friendship - as we are both fairly self-sufficient. The fact is that we have a lot in common with IAC - in that they are also anti-pirate 'free-spacers'. Flying alongside Priory is not something we were particularly happy about but for now Priory have accepted IAC's no-piracy rules (to the relief of many a pilot I am sure ). If that changes then I can assure you that they will be made KOS to CVA once again. The fact is that CVA has been entirely true to its vision from the very start and as one of the original founder members I can testify to that. Assisting a friend in need is hardly 'dropping ones RP'. Indeed it would have been very un-Amarrian not to do so! Almost two years ago the CVA launched 'Operation Deliverance' - a mission dedicated to restoring law and order to low-sec Amarrian space and 0.0 bordering the Empire - and that is an ongoing operation. We are extending the Amarrian Empire into lawless space and providing protection and shelter for all who would operate legally in the areas protected by us. Of course I would be lying if I said that we can guarantee anyone's safety 100% of the time - as that is practically an impossibility for any alliance operating in 0.0 - let alone one as small as ours - yet that does not stop our pilots doing their duty every single night - and generally succeeding. Non-NBSI 'Free space' can succeed as we (and others) have demonstrated - but it requires discipline, hard work, excellent communications and at the end of the day an extremely streamlined decision making process - particularly with regards the managemement and dissemination of KOS lists. ------------------------------
Hardin Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:16:00 - [74] Originally by: Hakera the problem will always be who defends when your attacked. If guests simply use n' abuse, be convieniently absent when enemies do come for eg they offer nothing and take everything. That is a problem Hakera but for every three people who run and hide when an enemy fleet is incoming at least one will beg to help out. Not only that but many of the nuetrals who may not be want to PvP can offer assistance in other ways - not least in providing an advanced warning system. This extended 'information-net' can be worth its weight in gold as we are often alerted and scrambling a fleet to deal with invaders before they even realise they have been spotted... As long as people do not directly abuse our rules by pirating then we do not judge them. That does not mean that we do not 'observe' who helps and who doesn't - which in turn provides us with an excellent 'recruitment' pool - after all you already know who you can rely on and who you can't And what greater honour can there be to fly with the CVA in its never ending wars against Minmatar terrorism and the ever present threat of piracy. ------------------------------
Selpy 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Selpy Originally by: Droewa ..... so.. who won? I didn't :( 1 too high Ok... Swindon had 9... Selpy had 11... who the heck had 10 damnit? It's killin' me! Actually, I had 10 and Swindon didn't have 9, I think he was drunk when he posted that lol and BTW, I'm just LOVEING this thread, like some have said...it's PURE COMEDY GOLD GO NEZ GO \o/ Look deep into these eyes, they'll be the last thing to see you!
EnglishBob 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:21:00 - [76] Edited by: EnglishBob on 23/10/2006 23:22:48 Nope, cos it's the 10th reply. not including the OP, so it's the holder of number 9 that wins. And that's Saal, Damn his eyes! edited 'cos I can't count ------------------
Selpy 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:24:00 - [77] Originally by: EnglishBob Edited by: EnglishBob on 23/10/2006 23:22:48 Nope, cos it's the 10th reply. not including the OP, so it's the holder of number 9 that wins. And that's Saal, Damn his eyes! edited 'cos I can't count lol same person, but now you agree with my statement above, just get home from the pub english :) Look deep into these eyes, they'll be the last thing to see you!
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:29:00 - [78] Edited by: Avernus on 23/10/2006 23:31:51 Edited by: Avernus on 23/10/2006 23:31:05 Originally by: Machiavelli7 On another note Avie, spare the soapbox ranting.. Originally by: Avernus My principals have never changed, and never will That's balls Av and you know it and 100's of other ex-FIX pilots know it. I once knew an Avernus who wouldn't swallow the 12 inch arrangement with BoB that you currently do. Now you and Nez have firsthand experience of what you're both arguing about. Rather than putting a rose-tinted veil on your actions (both of you!) how about trying to learn from some of your less-than-illustrious decisions? Tying this back to the OP - you tried managing some free space in Catch, Av, which was spectularly unsuccessful and directly led to the ISS first outpost establishment, and the failure to secure the eastern border. With hindsight, the pursuit of 'managed' free space cost FIX dear. Mach... I particularily like our arrangement with BoB. It's a bit insulted to refer to it in the manner that you do. Consider everything that we faced at the end of the CODA war, decisions had to be made. Obviously, they were hard ones, but they were thankfully straight forward, and made easier due to BoB's leaders. Think about it... 450 pilots left in FIX at the end of CODA. You know me pretty well, I don't quit things easily, and with the final split in FIX at the end of CODA, the two ideological camps that we had been struggling with for so longer was an issue no longer. The split that occurred was the to all our benefits in truth... I figure there would still be arguements ongoing otherwise. FIX had a choice to make, enter into arrangements with BoB, or clear out and rebuild elsewhere. Neither the exact arrangement, nor the evolving relations between BoB and FIX are up for discussion. Nor is the progress of FIX since CODA. I'll say this though... there isn't a person in FIX that doesn't wholeheartedly believe that we didn't choose the right path. FIX has always had a very independant streak, it's got us in trouble more than once. We still have that instilled within us, it's one of the reasons we're not a dead alliance. I'm damn proud of FIX these days, and the rebuilding and growth of our alliance is something that we all take great pleasure in. Most who know me well, can't figure out why I would accept a deal with BoB. It's simple really... it's set in stone. I can take their word to the bank, and I have no hesitations in belief that they will honour every facet of our agreements. Show me how many alliances that can be said about? It goes back to the foundations of what we build FIX upon. Honour. Our word once given, is gold, you can take it to the bank as well, even if it ends up hurting us for keeping it. In the case of: Quote: Tying this back to the OP - you tried managing some free space in Catch, Av, which was spectularly unsuccessful and directly led to the ISS first outpost establishment, and the failure to secure the eastern border. With hindsight, the pursuit of 'managed' free space cost FIX dear. I came up with the plan... I also gave notice I was leaving FIX for a few months (which I did). I didn't manage the plan or even putting it into place. As far as I know, the whole thing kind of sat there. Nor was I the person who accepted the 'gift' of Catch from SE when it came to us. That wasn't my call... I wasn't in leadership at that point, just a plain old council member. It was obvious that FIX would accept the space, I simply tried to give a way that we might be able to use it. My principals, are well intact.... I'm just not that simple of a guy unless you have all the pieces of the puzzle. Edit: Damn forum cut out my whole reply Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
EnglishBob 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:30:00 - [79] You think I could work it out if I took my shoes and socks off? ------------------
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:35:00 - [80] Ohh... So Saal won then? Tell him I want my cut damnit... this was a lot of work man! Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.23 23:50:00 - [81] Originally by: Hardin Originally by: Hakera the problem will always be who defends when your attacked. If guests simply use n' abuse, be convieniently absent when enemies do come for eg they offer nothing and take everything. That is a problem Hakera but for every three people who run and hide when an enemy fleet is incoming at least one will beg to help out. Not only that but many of the nuetrals who may not be want to PvP can offer assistance in other ways - not least in providing an advanced warning system. This extended 'information-net' can be worth its weight in gold as we are often alerted and scrambling a fleet to deal with invaders before they even realise they have been spotted... As long as people do not directly abuse our rules by pirating then we do not judge them. That does not mean that we do not 'observe' who helps and who doesn't - which in turn provides us with an excellent 'recruitment' pool - after all you already know who you can rely on and who you can't And what greater honour can there be to fly with the CVA in its never ending wars against Minmatar terrorism and the ever present threat of piracy. Good post Hardin! You always raise the quality in here a bit Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Beringe Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:22:00 - [82] I find it interesting that some posters in this thread seem to consider the current freespace areas "failures", somehow. I'm seeing the exact opposite. In fact, taking the ISS as an example - this was an organisation that people said could never exist in EvEs 0.0 landscape, and from what I can tell they are thriving. You don't need to control space to make it free. You just have to stop anyone else from controlling it. However, I really don't see where morals come into the discussion. Free space doesn't seem any more or less moral than controlled space to me. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Mahrin Skel Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:26:00 - [83] Mach: As far as why we accepted the deal with BOB: Everyone who was left in FIX at that point was tired. That last month, especially, sucked. We knew we were going to lose, and there was nothing to do but go down swinging. The prospect of moving everything to some other chunk of 0.0 and fighting to take and defend it? Those that wanted that option had pretty much already cleared out for PURE and Outbreak. FIX was down to the guys who were willing to stand and die in Q. BOB offered us a good deal, especially considering the strength of their negotiating position. They could have offered to let us be "renters", a few corps would have taken that deal (in fact, a couple of ex-fix corps did later). Being a client state looked better to us than being nomads. Anyway, considering yours was one of the corps that buggered off on us rather than fight to the end, I'm not sure what makes you feel entitled to judge the choices of those of us who stayed. --Dave
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:43:00 - [84] Time to explain a few things about what is going on in this thread, a few people, will notice that it has an odd title for a discussion thread. A week or so ago, I was approached by a member of Outbreak. Despite the fact that we often get shot and and shoot at these guys, there is a large quantity of ex-FIX in that corp, and I know these guys well. Lots of friends there. They came to me, and asked for a favor. They had a sweepstakes going... tickets were all sold, and they needed a particular person to get everything working. Ofc, that happened to be myself. I was asked to create a thread, a topic of my own choosing; this happens to be it. The purpose was twofold, one purpose was the betting, the other purpose is that there is a person that likes to dog threads that I create, and has a hell of a lot to say about FIX. In the past there has been some serious forum wars between us in the FIX forums... it was only a matter of time before the same were to happen here much to nobody's delight. It's harder to conduct serious business on this forum when there is a very good chance your topic is going to get derailed by a person who has it in for you. I chose this topic subject, because it does in fact happen to be something I like talking about. I find the material to be of great interest. However, the topic title: Free FIX Space -or- FFS -or- I like dropping bombs; is a multipurpose one. Allow me to introduce you all to a historical Eve-O first: The Eve-O 'Fabled Forum Slap'... FFS! Saal Iverson, congratulations, you have won the sweepstakes. Post number 10 is the post in which Nez Perces jumped into this thread. Nez Perces; You just caught the bomb. /You've been hit by the Gunboat Diplomat, wrecking ego for massive carnage. Avernus - 3 Nez Perces - 0 Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:50:00 - [85] Originally by: Avernus Nez Perces; You just caught the bomb. /You've been hit by the Gunboat Diplomat, wrecking ego for massive carnage. Avernus - 3 Nez Perces - 0 Even if this were true, which sounds absolutely retarded.... .. you guys must spend a hell of a lot of time thinking about me... I am flattered. Avernus you have a big opinion of yourself, its unfortunate that that opinion falls terribly short of reality. You bringing up this topic of free space, whilst FIX does not have its own is the big joke. That you can't see it is the biggest shame of all.
IonHammer Minmatar Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 00:52:00 - [86] Ok heres my take, there is free space its called empire! no one wants to go there unless your a noob as there's no isk there. Every one want to be in 0.0 where there's isk to be had in plexing, npcing and mining and generally misbehaving. Please tell me how then could this be free no wonder this approach never works. Put bluntly free space = space no ones wants. If thats your real life i'm very jealous - Petwraith
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.24 01:13:00 - [87] Edited by: Nez Perces on 24/10/2006 01:13:09 Originally by: Kazim For the purpose of this thread does it matter at all that FIX has no space to call their own? Avernus explained it pretty well a few posts up. err... some people are easily entertained I guess .. I don't know if you read the forums at all... but I post pretty regular on a variety of topics that interest me.. this is just one more of many. So what is this thread really about?
Selpy 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:12:00 - [88] Edited by: Selpy on 24/10/2006 02:12:34 Originally by: Nez Perces So what is this thread really about? me loosing a 1 mill bet, damn #10, who knew OP counted as 0 [Selpy points to Avernus] I still wanna dance with you Look deep into these eyes, they'll be the last thing to see you!
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:16:00 - [89] /Passes Selpy the T2 bong.... shhhhh... don't tell Dopple! Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback.
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 02:16:00 - [90] Gratz Saal :D ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes

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