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Avernus
Gallente
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:28:00 -
[1]
Yeah, I know this isn't the usual announcement or political diatribe we're so fond of in this forum area; I figured today I'd do something a little different and see where it goes.
I figure it's time to take the communities temperature on the topic of Free Space, and their thoughts on it. It's been a long time since there has been a successful area of free space, the most famous example being what we had with the Coalition of Free Stars. I know there have been others, but I'm not familiar with them.
It's been a while since we've seen this sort of thing, so here are a set of questions for you:
- Can it still be done?
- Should it be done for profit, or for ideals?
- Is it right to do it for profit?
and...
- What would be required for Free Space to succeed these days?
- Who is in the position to make it happen?
- Where would it be most likely to succeed?
- Do independants deserve Free Space if it can be done?
Fire and flame away people!
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
Dortock
The Scarlet Harmonic
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:37:00 -
[2]
Hmm, it can be done, but it's tough since there are not many entities out there that would stop mining their ore to go help an alliance that they do not believe in or are in just for the isk..
I honestly think it's possible if you have the right leaders at the top, but it wouldn't be worth the effort.
King Tinfoil Hatter |
shadyfox99
Caldari
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:39:00 -
[3]
Edited by: shadyfox99 on 22/10/2006 23:40:40
I was never involved with CFS, so really i have no experience with "free space". Unless you consider Curse, Pure Blind, Syndicate (parts) "free space".
I think, however, that what you are talking about is a set area that someone operates, and says to the general public "this area is 'free space' come and have fun, but follow our rules."
I think free space COULD be setup, but it would definetly need a strong military. (to protect from pirates, etc, etc.) But how would you keep decent PVP'ers in what would generally be considered a "carebear" region? Well I think you would need to pay them, first of all, and offer them something. (free ships? discounts on tech II stuff?) But of course you would need the isk to offer incentives to the PVP'ers, so in that regard you would need some sort of income from the region that you are operating as FS.
If you mean TRUE free space, where there is no governing body, but a large groups of people who operate there, AND defend that area together, then I don't think its as likely to happen. (defend against pirates, since its free space, any other alliance would be able to move through there, etc)
Maybe someone could define "free space", because just writing this is making my head hurt thinking about it.
Edit: maybe an entire Region run and "controlled" by ISS would be considered free space?
 Originally by: HostageTaker
Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!
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Talon SilverHawk
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:39:00 -
[4]
- What would be required for Free Space to succeed these days?
A strong, willing organised fighting force, Without that it would never succeed
Tal
What goes around comes around
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shivan
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:41:00 -
[5]
If you want a great example of free space you need look no further than CVA and ISS.
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 23:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/10/2006 23:49:28
You either control space and are able to enforce things, or you don't control space and end up like ISS: in trouble over your carefree acceptance policies from day one.
While the latter comes fairly close to the essence of freespace, it's not sustainable. The former is, but that's not freespace.
Hence there will be no sustained freespace.
Old blog |
n sx
The Tidemark
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 00:19:00 -
[7]
In the last 24 hours, IAC has returned to it's free space policy. This has been the way we've operated since we first moved to 0.0.
IAC constantly works to provide infrastructure and supplies for itself and also neutral pilots operating in the area. We also actively patrol the area for hostile gangs, though as with all low security areas there are those that love to grief.
All charges/ISK taken from outpost revenues is reinvested in the area, be it defence or infrastructure.
Between ISS's Marginis and Tycho and IAC's The Distillery and The Bottleshop outposts it is fast becoming a civilised region.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 00:53:00 -
[8]
The choice between free space and closed space isn't sharply defined; there are a spectrum of space usage policies that alliances can choose:
- NBSI or NRLI?
- Sell access rights, and if so what pricing scheme?
- Is access tied to corp/alliance standings?
- What are criteria for setting positive/negative standings?
- How aggressively will claimed space be patrolled?
Ideology should not be the driving force behind these choices, though unfortunately this debate is often dominated by ideologues on either side. The most advantageous mix of policies will depend on the local geography and political climate.
*opinions stated are not necessarily those of my corporation or alliance |
Avernus
Gallente
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Avernus on 23/10/2006 02:23:00
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/10/2006 23:49:28
You either control space and are able to enforce things, or you don't control space and end up like ISS: in trouble over your carefree acceptance policies from day one.
While the latter comes fairly close to the essence of freespace, it's not sustainable. The former is, but that's not freespace.
Hence there will be no sustained freespace.
n sx (from IAC) brings up some good points though, I have to admit that I didn't initially think of them when making this post. From what I've seen, they have been pretty successful with free space, alongside CVA, and oddly UK as well.
They might not be considered heavy weights, but I can say from personal experience that their lads do know how to put up a good fight for their turf.
Edit, to reference n sx being in IAC.
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:33:00 -
[10]
What the hell are you playing at Avernus?
Haven't you already been there, bought the t-shirt the postcards and written the guide book?
... or are you simply a masochist.
FIX had a hand in killing CFS, and now you want to bring it back from the dead?
I could scarcely believe my eyes when I read this thread.
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Wierd Beard
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:38:00 -
[11]
FFS!!!
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DeltaH
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:48:00 -
[12]
Edited by: DeltaH on 23/10/2006 02:49:55
I don't understand this whole free space thing...
A lot of people complain that there is no room in 0.0 for small corporations or alliances anymore. I think that is bunk. LV, D2, BoB, etc all rent their space out one way or another. All these small corporations or alliances have to do is drop an eve-mail to the proper representitives.
Is paying rent that much of a put off?
I know I'm biased... but if I wanted to be a 0.0 miner this is what I'd do in an instant. Mine all day long as much as I want without guilt trips to join a PvP gang from the alliance. On top of that, almost every alliance has a refining tax so it isn't like you aren't already paying rent to be a part of an alliance.
-DeltaH
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DeltaH
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: DeltaH on 23/10/2006 02:49:42
stupid forum
---
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Entilzah Valen
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wierd Beard
FFS!!!
QFT
Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg yay |
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:53:00 -
[15]
/emote bkmrks this thread as future source of endless amusement....
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Avernus
Gallente
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nez Perces
/emote bkmrks this thread as future source of endless amusement....
Good idea.
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
Droewa
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 02:59:00 -
[17]
.....  so.. who won?
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Lazydog
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 03:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nez Perces
/emote bkmrks this thread as future source of endless amusement....
OH No!  
My eve vids
When PvP Met Mr Sansha |
nickky01
No Quarter.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.23 03:35:00 -
[19]
i for one would LOVE the chance to visit FIX space again
anyways:
- Can it still be done?
yes and no...if you can protect the people who are exploring/visting 0.0 for the first time, yes. but you'll always have ppl who want a system to themselves for ratting or whatever, or ppl who want to setup POS's...with the carebears comes pirates/(dunno the word for pirates who arn't scared of 0.0) who want to kill them...
- Should it be done for profit, or for ideals?
both...set an objective (i.e. outpost or bunch of T2 items) charge corps to use 0.0 space
- Is it right to do it for profit?
if you defend your space, and operate stations, yeah it is right to do it for profit. i mean...why not?
- What would be required for Free Space to succeed these days?
a good defense...always have gangs ready at a notice, ect.
- Who is in the position to make it happen?
IMO a strong leader, i.e. a guy who can call for a gang and get EVERYONE active to fight...not a doormat basically
- Where would it be most likely to succeed?
a system or sytems only a few jumps from empire...mark deep 0.0 as very hostile and enter at your own risk kinda space
- Do independants deserve Free Space if it can be done?
to much to drink, dont really know what this means.
Fire and flame away people!
one time you got drunk and asked me out on a date
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.23 03:35:00 -
[20]
.... something just ocurred to me, doesn't free space seem like flavour of the month right now?
its certainly been in the news or entities promoting it have been on the front page....
Well there has been UK fighting the "ebil" pirates in 9uy, and ISS fell over backwards to help them. Even CVA couldn't help but drop the RP and rush to support their sworn enemies.
Then ofc there is the IAC, who suddenly had a million and one friends to call upon once their outpost was threatened, including CVA who again 'dropped' the RP to fly alonsided s******dly and people like The Priory. (Incidently The Priory seems very much like a little bit of extra muscle brought in to strengthen the ranks...[anybody remember Krom, don't worry if you don't..]..)
ISS has been in the news over the last couple of days, although for all the wrong reasons, yet they are still viewed as a 'shining example' for the free space ideal.
.. and probably the more flamboyant and trendy news item is Celestial Apocalypse "opening up" Fountain as free space.. *giggle*.. and not only that but starting its own alliance  ... I imagine they are expecting to get pretty busy on the standings front... trying to pvp and keep standings with visiting corporations would quickly overrun the corp standings mechanics. 
All in all if it hadn't been for the BoB vs ASCN war it would pretty much have been Free Space month. 
Ofc now there is this thread too....
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.10.23 04:16:00 -
[21]
Well CVA do it successfuly for quite a long time now, depite all the difficulties rised by not operating NBSI.
Most organizations and people would give up on that, its too much hassle, for no advantage or profit.
The only ones who do it, do it for the ideal.. so no, I'd say its not profitable to do it...
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Save Tranquility! |
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.23 04:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Audrea
Well CVA do it successfuly for quite a long time now, depite all the difficulties rised by not operating NBSI.
ofc.. they had the advantage of operating out of npc stations.. until they put up their outpost that is...
It is really no surprise that CVA are free space idealists (one has to wonder, where their heart truly lies.. Amarr RP or free space)..... Imperial Dreams is at their core.. and they were in the good ol' (yes you guessed it) CFS.
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Rainbow Jesus
Minmatar
Grief Tactics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2006.10.23 04:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Audrea
Well CVA do it successfuly for quite a long time now, depite all the difficulties rised by not operating NBSI.
Most organizations and people would give up on that, its too much hassle, for no advantage or profit.
The only ones who do it, do it for the ideal.. so no, I'd say its not profitable to do it...
Dirty Amarrians, they should ALL FALL!
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Entilzah Valen
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 04:53:00 -
[24]
Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg yay |
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.23 05:40:00 -
[25]
"Free space"?
Avernus, stop starting threads where you sound like a tree-hugging hippie, man. 
-
Movie: 9UY - Got Fighters? |
Marko Debreault
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.23 05:53:00 -
[26]
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thetwilitehour
Omega Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.10.23 06:16:00 -
[27]
I think the single major stumbling block is people want to have free space as an aside from their real goals or as part of a patchwork of objectives they are trying to accomplish. TBB was trying to make money and provide free space, when their money making became an issue and someone hired MC it sort of got wrecked forever. If you had a strong pvp corp with a decent amount of skills and assets that actually had a goal of providing free space for eve players theres no reason it couldnt happen, but it needs to be an END not a MEANS or just a random policy.
In fact, if a group of players really wanted to be anti pirate, this is a great way to do it. Simply enforce a NLRI policy and be real clear about it, find a decent but not great constellation (cloud ring could work well for this) set up 2-4 outposts and have clear rules. No sovreignty claims by neutral corps, no refineries. The alliance can be funded by renting office space and refining, and possibly have 1 really sweet system (in the cloud ring example XZH) that of off limits and NBSI is enforced.
Newbs and carebears running amok would draw pirates like flies to something that draws flies, and the pvpers running the free space would have constant targets, as well as the acclaim of new players and the eve community alike. What they wont get is mega rich or powerful in the alliance scheme of things, but if it was someones dream, of course it could easily be accomplished.
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Semkhet
The Priory
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 06:34:00 -
[28]
Free space in the genuine sense ?
Happens only when CCP adds some systems after a patch or content upgrade. And it lasts a few hours at most.
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Avernus
Gallente
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 07:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Seleene
"Free space"?
Avernus, stop starting threads where you sound like a tree-hugging hippie, man.
It's um.. a public relations exercise. 
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
Helplessandlost
Minmatar
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.23 10:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Helplessandlost
/emote bkmrks this poster as future source of endless amusement....
"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"
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