Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
366
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 01:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Arthur Frayn wrote:Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants. they don't already?
They don't and most probably shouldn't, such has HAM's they should be buffed for explosion radius and some dps but that's it, if you want implants and skills to affect those you'll see torps everywhere OS'in cruisers. |
Skinae
Hello Kitty Hug Patrol
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 01:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Skinae wrote:The worst weapon system to use in the game (missiles), deserve buff, Winmatar and projectiles deserves nerf. ^Fixed that for you.
The weapon system that never misses, hits at 70k and can apply every damage type? |
Demon Azrakel
Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
55
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 02:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
One big thing is damage projection, compare the range and damage of HMLs with LR ammo to Rails, Artillary, or Beams. HMLS will do more damage at longer range. Compare the damage and range of HAMS to the close range weapons. The whole gimmick of missiles is that, with the possible exception of superfallof macharials and mega pulses against torps they will do more dps at longer range. That is made up for by the fact that they can only increase their dps by using t2 missiles, and then the increase is relatively minor.
TL;DR, I made a (super simplified) DPS graph because if I make an EFT graph, no one will look at the link. That, and such a graph will not take into account important things like the fact that turreted weapons have more than one choice of range.
|--\ |....\ <--Turret DPS |......\ |------\-------------- <--Missile DPS |..........\................| |............\..............| |..............\............| |................\..........| |..................\........| |....................\......| |......................\....|
Y axis - DPS X axis - Range
Side note: - Missiles get to choose 100% damage type to affect target's lowest resist. - Missiles always hit, even if they don't hit well - Missiles do not get wrecking hits (1% of all shots fired iirc, as long as the guns have at least a 1% chance to hit) - Missile damage is not debuffed by the actions of the ship firing the shots (then again it cannot be buffed by trying to make target's angular velocity zero), much dps is lost on turret ships moving in a direction that messes with transversal and angular; the fact that this is not the case with missiles is what makes 100mn tengus are so amazing. - The long range ends up hurting the larger ships in the way that long range hurts rail boats. The fix to this is to make warp range 300 km and change max locking range to 300 km. It is pointless to be able to shoot at a range further than the minimum range required to warp, as current probing mechanics make it too easy to probe out that fleet and warp right on top of it. I am not saying that if the changes happen, Cruise ravens will become the be-all, end-all of fleet fighting, or that they will be used at all for that matter. But they might be for at least a little bit. |
LacLongQuan
Deep Space Expedition.
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 10:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
bears can whine just about almost anything |
Filan Fyretracker
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 14:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
The buff that Missiles need... Visible launchers rather than them just spawning outside the ship and going down range. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
133
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 14:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Filan Fyretracker wrote:The buff that Missiles need... Visible launchers rather than them just spawning outside the ship and going down range.
I don't want my enemies to know what missiles I'm using before the engagement begins, thanks.
I appreciate that L4 rats don't care though. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
276
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 01:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Filan Fyretracker wrote:The buff that Missiles need... Visible launchers rather than them just spawning outside the ship and going down range. I don't want my enemies to know what missiles I'm using before the engagement begins, thanks. I appreciate that L4 rats don't care though.
Confirming you get the leisure to check opponent's turrets and decipher the new models before they fire. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
145
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 02:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Confirming you get the leisure to check opponent's turrets and decipher the new models before they fire.
Uh, yeah, you usually do. At least I do, and I'm pretty far from cautious when solo/small gang PvPing. |
Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 03:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think missiles are kinda fine. Removing penalties on T2 ammo will be sufficient. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
40
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 04:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
Swap damage types mid-battle?
FOF's if you're jammed?
Your launchers are invulnerable to NEUTs?
I think missiles are just fine the way they are. Lower DPS is the trade-off for the above elements which can be extremely useful in the right circumstances. No need for a buff. |
|
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
280
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 05:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words. |
Aedan Vals
1st. Legion Cascade Probable
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words. Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. And there are some pilots (granted not too much) who fit launchers instead of neuts. |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aedan Vals wrote:Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words. Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon.
ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint? |
Aedan Vals
1st. Legion Cascade Probable
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:Aedan Vals wrote:Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words. Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint?
Yes i realized. Still without any bonuses its hardly worth it. |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
True though it's mostly a skill thing, missile damage multiplier comes from skills, unlike the turret multiplier and you need to be rather skilled before they start being worth it.
|
Wacktopia
Sicarius. The Kadeshi
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 14:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:
1. Reload
Turrets: All turrets can reload their ammo either instantly (lasers) or within 5 seconds.
Missiles: It still takes 10 seconds to load ammo.
Projectiles: Also have 10 second reload time. Hybrids are 5 because they are a hybrid between lazors and projectile.
Drones: Can take an age to swap out / fly to target when you release a new one etc - their effective 'reload' time
2. Ship penalties.
Turrets: Most if not all ship penalties have been removed from T2 turret ammo.
Missiles: Using T2 missiles still either blows up your ship's sig radius or slows you to a crawl.
Blasters: Void still suffer a tracking penalty as well as capacitor. Null suffers a massive tracking penalty. Rails: Spike is pointless without an on-grid warp nerf.
3. Enhancement.
Turrets: Many different types of T2 ammo have been tweeked in their performance or the turrets themselves have been modified to provide better tracking, damage, range and so on by boosting the actual weapon it self or moduals that affect them like tracking enhancers.
Missiles: Nothing...and my Nighthawk still needs more grid!
Drake: Can fit strong tank + wmd + point and a full rack of damage mods in the lows. No other BC can do this.
4. You forgot to mention
- Missiles do not use cap. So no worries about capping out and not being able to use your weapons. - You can select between 100% damage type. Yeah sucks a bit on the drake but you can select a damage type. - Surprise factor that you cannot tell from looking at the ship what weapons they have fitted.
FYP |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 17:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aedan Vals wrote:Mike Whiite wrote:Aedan Vals wrote:Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words. Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint? Yes i realized. Still without any bonuses its hardly worth it.
Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words. |
A'Brantox Foson
Spiritus Draconis
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 17:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
1. Too many caldari pilots. 2. Too many caldari pilots carebearing 3. Too many caldari pilots not going into low/nullsec. 4. Too many caldari pilots that have trained cruise missiles to 5. (wasted energy and money)
|
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 18:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
A'Brantox Foson wrote:Oh noez, Caldari pilots aren't going into null with their Ravens because their Cruises can't pvp.
Solution: Buff it so that they can pvp. |
Castor Narcissus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 18:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Goose99 wrote: Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words
So what you propose is to buff missiles enough, so that people fit Launchers instead of Projectiles in unbonused slots.
Seems reasonable to me, where can i sign? |
|
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Castor Narcissus wrote:Goose99 wrote: Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words
So what you propose is to buff missiles enough, so that people fit Launchers instead of neuts in launcher slots. Seems reasonable to me, where can i sign?
Fixed that for you. |
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?
"My weapon system of choice should have the exact same upgrades with different names because I dislike the unique drawback that I am in no way forced to endure"
...
"WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH"
|
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
GavinCapacitor wrote:Patri Andari wrote:stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters? "My weapon system of choice should have the exact same upgrades with different names because I dislike the unique drawback that I am in no way forced to endure" ... "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH"
That's like saying: "I want my gun drawbacks to be just like that of Winmatar." Oh wait, there aren't any. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 01:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Remove T2 Missile ship drawbacks please!
|
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 13:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks.
Here's my ideas:
All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20% All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity. Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it. Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates.
The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced...
But it's just an idea
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 14:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks. Here's my ideas: All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20% All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity. Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it. Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates. The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced... But it's just an idea
I can go with that
|
Tasiv Deka
The Baseborn Syndicate
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 15:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Sunviking wrote:Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks. Here's my ideas: All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20% All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity. Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it. Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates. The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced... But it's just an idea I can go with that
i agree
also i do like the idea of giving torps (and possibly cruise) AoE damage. Oh no you've drained my Drake however will I run the coffee maker |
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 20:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:SMT008 wrote:Missiles themselves don't need a real boost. Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though. Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance. Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost. Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit. And T2 defenders, while you're at it. F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple : Either shoot the last target you were aggressing. Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you. That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field. And it looks fair to me, I guess Or CCP may revert the missiles to the original effects and be granted AoE dmg back again... Plz oh PLZ!! do such thing just for the LULZ!!!
+1, and make sure that includes the old "if you can cram it in the rack, you can fire it" system instead of this "used with chargegroup" silliness brought in from turret-land.
It'd be nice if cruises and torps didn't require *so much* painting/webbing to be worth firing at anything other than L4 NPCs, though... torps aren't even *really* all that good for that. 5-second ammo change and extra modules and all is just stupid though... too many things that need a little basic adjustment get whitewashed with a ton of major ovarhauls elsewhere as it is. |
Mira Lynne
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 02:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Definitely needs some work. IMO: Increase Torp/HAM/Rocket Explosion Radius. Make Explosion Radius Skill/Rigs affect Torp/HAM/Rockets. Increase Torp Damage by 5-15% Increase Cruise Damage Drastically. Possibly Include some sort of Tracking Computer/ Tracking Enhances for missiles? Reduces Exp. Radius and increases Flight Time, Velocity, and Exp. Velocity, and can take scripts. Would make the Golem slightly more user friendly. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |