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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 19:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP you have balanced T2 ammo at least twice in recent history. Each balance had lots of goodies for turrets. As of Crucible, we are left with turret weapons systems that are remarkably changed today compared to just a few short years ago. There is something in there for almost everyone especially when using T2 ammo....BUT
None of these changes as comprehensive as they have been even considered missiles.
This is the current state of balance resulting from your recent actions and inactions:
1. Reload
Turrets: All turrets can reload their ammo either instantly (lasers) or within 5 seconds.
Missiles: It still takes 10 seconds to load ammo.
2. Ship penalties.
Turrets: Most if not all ship penalties have been removed from T2 turret ammo.
Missiles: Using T2 missiles still either blows up your ship's sig radius or slows you to a crawl.
3. Enhancement.
Turrets: Many different types of T2 ammo have been tweeked in their performance or the turrets themselves have been modified to provide better tracking, damage, range and so on by boosting the actual weapon it self or moduals that affect them like tracking enhancers.
Missiles: Nothing...and my Nighthawk still needs more grid!
So my question is are there any plans to take a look at balancing missiles in the near future? I would settle for the obvious for now.
Remove T2 missile ship penalties and give us a 5 second reload ....Please.
In the long run I would love it if you thought about:
*Revisiting the missile damage formula so that it is more possible to do damage to stationary targets. *Cruise missiles? nuff said! *Introduce low slot and or mid slot missile enhancement modules. * Reconsider this silly doctrine that T2 Missile ammo is meant only to attack a higher ship class. (This is poorly thought out. Please reconsider it.)
Baring any action at all how about you at least communicate with us about why you choose not to act on these issues?
What considerations have you taken into account that lead you to believe things are fine as they are, for example.
Thanks in advance,
Patri |

Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 20:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Missile is not all about R.O.F and damage bonus, they also depend heavily on Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity. Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
|

Tsubutai
The Tuskers
30
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Projectile weapons still have a ten second reload time. More to the point, missiles as a whole are in no way underpowered. Rockets, HAMs, and HMLs are all solid weapons, and torps are borderline. Standards are fine in terms of range and damage; their only problem is that standard launchers are borderline unfittable on most frigates. The only really poor missiles are cruises, which could use some attention. |

Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
145
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:So my question is are there any plans to take a look at balancing missiles in the near future? I would settle for the obvious for now.
Remove T2 missile ship penalties and give us a 5 second reload ....Please.
In the long run I would love it if you thought about:
*Revisiting the missile damage formula so that it is more possible to do damage to stationary targets. *Cruise missiles? nuff said! *Introduce low slot and or mid slot missile enhancement modules. * Reconsider this silly doctrine that T2 Missile ammo is meant only to attack a higher ship class. (This is poorly thought out. Please reconsider it.)
Projectiles still have a 10 second reload time. Cruise missiles do need their own gimmick or a heavy boost. Missiles don't need their own equivalent to TEs. Precision missiles are meant to attack smaller targets.
|

Songbird
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
low slot missile enhancement modules is the ballistic control systems? Enhances both rof and damage. Midslot is web + target painter - both will increase your missile damage |

Opertone
Signal 7
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd like a blue Pill... to make my 'warhead' smaller. I am serious. 
I can vote for defender missiles revamp. It appears to me that missiles are fun and fine, since the great nano nerf. Omen.
|

Skinae
Hello Kitty Hug Patrol
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
The two easiest ships to fly in the game (Drake, Tengu), do not deserve any kind of buff what so ever. |

Asuka Smith
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 22:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Defenders, rockets, standards, all t2 variants need help. |

stoicfaux
389
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 22:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
-Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.)
/pedantic
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
|

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 23:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic
Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?
Painters do not have the same viabilty as the before mentioned modules which increase damage to all targets a ship fires on without having to activate the module on each target. Painters are helpful to turrets, missiles, bombs, and drones. Yet drones and all turrets have a way to alter their stats without having to target a ship and wonder about falloff. Missile deserve the same. It's not just convenience. I'd love to hear the cries if CCP ever took away tracking computers or enhancers and told peeps to just use painters.
I must also admit I was unaware that projectiles also retained the 10 second reload. That being said, seems only fair with such as OP weapon system.
Time for more beer!
Patri
|
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 23:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic
Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?
Painters do not have the same viabilty as the before mentioned modules which increase damage to all targets a ship fires on without having to activate the module on each target. Painters are helpful to turrets, missiles, bombs, and drones. Yet drones and all turrets have a way to alter their stats without having to target a ship and wonder about falloff. Missile deserve the same. It's not just convenience. I'd love to hear the cries if CCP ever took away tracking computers or enhancers and told peeps to just use painters.
I must also admit I was unaware that projectiles also retained the 10 second reload. That being said, seems only fair with such as OP weapon system.
Time for more beer!
Patri
P.S. Strange no one else has a problem with T2 missiles retaining their ship penalties. |

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 23:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Precision cruise need to lose their penalty to ship speed. They also need explosion radius reduced to 200m down from 270m to be viable.
Fury cruise need their explosion radius reduced from 550m to 450m which is equal to a T1 torpedo.
Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants. |

Khrage
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 00:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Frayn wrote:Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants.
they don't already? |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 01:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Arthur Frayn wrote:Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants. they don't already?
They don't. Btw, just bring back AOE torp of the olden times. Good times. |

White Matar Ra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 05:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
tl;dr, but I agree after looking over patch notes and seeing how much love hybrids got it makes me hopeful CCP will take a look some of the neglected missiles (cruise, standard, and to a lesser extent torps/rockets). |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 05:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
White Matar Ra wrote:tl;dr, but I agree after looking over patch notes and seeing how much love hybrids got it makes me hopeful CCP will take a look some of the neglected missiles (cruise, standard, and to a lesser extent torps/rockets).
All missiles except rockets could use some work. Incidentally, rockets got a buff earlier.
Btw, hmls don't fare better than cruise/standard as a weapon system in its niche, it's just that drake makes up for it. Nerf drake and buff hml, and perhaps you'll see them on other boats' launcher highs instead of neuts. |

White Matar Ra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 05:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
I haven't been back long enough to say how well they did with rockets, but if they also got love, then sweet.
HML seem in a good place, but there are a couple HML ships that are hard to fit and/or have a stupid role (cerb). |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 05:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
White Matar Ra wrote:I haven't been back long enough to say how well they did with rockets, but if they also got love, then sweet.
HML seem in a good place, but there are a couple HML ships that are hard to fit and/or have a stupid role (cerb).
Hml don't suck as badly as cruise. That's not the same as them being good. Drake does well despite hmls, not because of it. It's the buffer. If drakes can fit arties, that drake blob would be fit differently... Cerb isn't bad in the sniper hac role, if you compare its ship stats to zealot/munnin, it's a joke because of hmls, where others have real weapons. |

White Matar Ra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 05:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think the sniper role with missiles in general is a joke. Then again, sniping in general is a joke when I can have my alt provide a warpin within seconds. |

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 05:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skinae wrote:The two easiest ships to fly in the game (Drake, Tengu), do not deserve any kind of buff what so ever.
|
|

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 06:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Skinae wrote:The worst weapon system to use in the game (missiles), deserve buff, Winmatar and projectiles deserves nerf.
^Fixed that for you. |

Seigfried Hakaari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 06:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Heavies are generally fine with the exception of Precision. Precision are actually useless. Faction are far and away better.
One thing i would like to see for Missiles though is a High Velocity variant; Damage somewhere between Standard Tech 1 and Fury, Half the regular Flight time at double Velocity, or at least that's the idea. Basically, something to make Missiles better in fleets, so the damage can be applied in equal numbers without such a massive delay. Unfortunately i think it might be a bit at odds with Flight time and Velocity modifying skills/Bonuses, so it's pretty much a pipe dream.
Cruise and Torps are horrible outside of very specific ship setups, and it doesn't help that every ship that is bonused for them looks like it was beat in the face with a Frying Pan. |

FlameGlow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 09:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Seigfried Hakaari wrote:Heavies are generally fine with the exception of Precision. Precision are actually useless. Faction are far and away better.
Not that precision was bad idea in itself, bad idea was slashing their base damage, range and putting a speed penalty on top. Those could be useful if they were exactly the same as T1 but with better explosion radius&velocity |

Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 10:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dare Devel wrote:Missile is not all about R.O.F and damage bonus, they also depend heavily on Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity. Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
This will help Torps and Citadel ammo greatly, in getting their damage applied to their moving targets. While using these type of ammo (which are high damage per volley) the application of the damage is more important rather than increasing the ROF. For instance a sieged phoenix can be speed tanked by another capital ship (moving at 50+ m/s) easily. In such cases modules like BCS can be swapped for mods giving bonus to explosion velocity and decreasing Explosion radius. Smaller ships like Stealth Bombers might use this but T3, Battlecruisers, HACs or Frigates may not use it since small and medium missiles have enough explosion velocity.
|

SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
290
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 12:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Missiles themselves don't need a real boost.
Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though.
Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance. 
Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost.
Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit.
And T2 defenders, while you're at it. 
F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple :
Either shoot the last target you were aggressing.
Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you.
That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field.
And it looks fair to me, I guess  |

Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 13:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Missiles themselves don't need a real boost. Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though. Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance.  Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost. Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit. And T2 defenders, while you're at it.  F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple : Either shoot the last target you were aggressing. Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you. That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field. And it looks fair to me, I guess 
Or CCP may revert the missiles to the original effects and be granted AoE dmg back again...
Plz oh PLZ!! do such thing just for the LULZ!!!
|

DeepfriedTator
HotRock Mining PLC
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 16:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
I agree lets give missles a buff. We can add the following as well to make them more like turrets
1. Under a certain range. Infact lets just say they didnt have time to arm the warhead.
2. Anything traveling faster than 1km will not be hit as long as it is orbiting the said ship.
3. Move BCU's to mid slots so shield ships have to sacrifice their shields for a damage bonus
4. We can add some cap usage to the firing of missles.
I'm sorry for the lack of helpfull suggestions. Currently at work so I'm not at home with my list of helpfull ideas for the game.
Thanks all |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
264
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 16:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeepfriedTator wrote:I agree lets give missles a buff. We can add the following as well to make them more like turrets
1. Under a certain range. Infact lets just say they didnt have time to arm the warhead.
2. Anything traveling faster than 1km will not be hit as long as it is orbiting the said ship.
3. Move BCU's to mid slots so shield ships have to sacrifice their shields for a damage bonus
4. We can add some cap usage to the firing of missles.
I'm sorry for the lack of helpfull suggestions. Currently at work so I'm not at home with my list of helpfull ideas for the game.
Thanks all
1. Yes, turrets other than blasters should not activate under certain range. Don't be sorry, in fact, this is absolutely brilliant.
2. Missiles already can't hit anything traveling faster than 1km, at any range.
3. Yes, Winmatar gyros should be moved to mids, so that they may get TEs in lows for extra kiting winnage. I'd support same for missiles, but I guess they don't have TEs. On the bright side, Khanid will be less fail, and nanodrakes ftw.
4. Yes, Winmatar should use cap. |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.04 19:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Can we just get the bloody ship penalties removed from T2 missiles already?
How the hell can my Merlin or Hawk ever equip range bonused javelin rockets when they slow me to a crawl? Meanwhile everyone zips around blowing **** up!
Did someone forget Caldari are already the slowest race with the largest sig radius? Now we are the only ones left with punishing T2 ammo that makes our ship.....Even Slower AND Fatter!
Please fix this.
|

Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 01:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
I just want another passive tank/missile combo that isn't insane to train for. Cruiser or Battleship I don't care. |
|

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
366
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 01:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Arthur Frayn wrote:Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants. they don't already?
They don't and most probably shouldn't, such has HAM's they should be buffed for explosion radius and some dps but that's it, if you want implants and skills to affect those you'll see torps everywhere OS'in cruisers. |

Skinae
Hello Kitty Hug Patrol
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 01:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Skinae wrote:The worst weapon system to use in the game (missiles), deserve buff, Winmatar and projectiles deserves nerf. ^Fixed that for you. 
The weapon system that never misses, hits at 70k and can apply every damage type? |

Demon Azrakel
Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
55
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 02:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
One big thing is damage projection, compare the range and damage of HMLs with LR ammo to Rails, Artillary, or Beams. HMLS will do more damage at longer range. Compare the damage and range of HAMS to the close range weapons. The whole gimmick of missiles is that, with the possible exception of superfallof macharials and mega pulses against torps they will do more dps at longer range. That is made up for by the fact that they can only increase their dps by using t2 missiles, and then the increase is relatively minor.
TL;DR, I made a (super simplified) DPS graph because if I make an EFT graph, no one will look at the link. That, and such a graph will not take into account important things like the fact that turreted weapons have more than one choice of range.
|--\ |....\ <--Turret DPS |......\ |------\-------------- <--Missile DPS |..........\................| |............\..............| |..............\............| |................\..........| |..................\........| |....................\......| |......................\....|
Y axis - DPS X axis - Range
Side note: - Missiles get to choose 100% damage type to affect target's lowest resist. - Missiles always hit, even if they don't hit well - Missiles do not get wrecking hits (1% of all shots fired iirc, as long as the guns have at least a 1% chance to hit) - Missile damage is not debuffed by the actions of the ship firing the shots (then again it cannot be buffed by trying to make target's angular velocity zero), much dps is lost on turret ships moving in a direction that messes with transversal and angular; the fact that this is not the case with missiles is what makes 100mn tengus are so amazing. - The long range ends up hurting the larger ships in the way that long range hurts rail boats. The fix to this is to make warp range 300 km and change max locking range to 300 km. It is pointless to be able to shoot at a range further than the minimum range required to warp, as current probing mechanics make it too easy to probe out that fleet and warp right on top of it. I am not saying that if the changes happen, Cruise ravens will become the be-all, end-all of fleet fighting, or that they will be used at all for that matter. But they might be for at least a little bit. |

LacLongQuan
Deep Space Expedition.
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 10:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
bears can whine just about almost anything |

Filan Fyretracker
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 14:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
The buff that Missiles need... Visible launchers rather than them just spawning outside the ship and going down range. |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
133
|
Posted - 2011.12.05 14:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Filan Fyretracker wrote:The buff that Missiles need... Visible launchers rather than them just spawning outside the ship and going down range.
I don't want my enemies to know what missiles I'm using before the engagement begins, thanks. 
I appreciate that L4 rats don't care though. |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
276
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 01:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Filan Fyretracker wrote:The buff that Missiles need... Visible launchers rather than them just spawning outside the ship and going down range. I don't want my enemies to know what missiles I'm using before the engagement begins, thanks.  I appreciate that L4 rats don't care though.
Confirming you get the leisure to check opponent's turrets and decipher the new models before they fire. |

Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
145
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 02:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Confirming you get the leisure to check opponent's turrets and decipher the new models before they fire. 
Uh, yeah, you usually do. At least I do, and I'm pretty far from cautious when solo/small gang PvPing. |

Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 03:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think missiles are kinda fine. Removing penalties on T2 ammo will be sufficient. |

Aggressive Nutmeg
40
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 04:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
Swap damage types mid-battle?
FOF's if you're jammed?
Your launchers are invulnerable to NEUTs?
I think missiles are just fine the way they are. Lower DPS is the trade-off for the above elements which can be extremely useful in the right circumstances. No need for a buff. |
|

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
280
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 05:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words. |

Aedan Vals
1st. Legion Cascade Probable
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.  Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. And there are some pilots (granted not too much) who fit launchers instead of neuts. |

Mike Whiite
Progressive State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aedan Vals wrote:Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.  Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon.
ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint? |

Aedan Vals
1st. Legion Cascade Probable
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:Aedan Vals wrote:Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.  Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint?
Yes i realized. Still without any bonuses its hardly worth it. |

Mike Whiite
Progressive State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
True though it's mostly a skill thing, missile damage multiplier comes from skills, unlike the turret multiplier and you need to be rather skilled before they start being worth it.
|

Wacktopia
Sicarius. The Kadeshi
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 14:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:
1. Reload
Turrets: All turrets can reload their ammo either instantly (lasers) or within 5 seconds.
Missiles: It still takes 10 seconds to load ammo.
Projectiles: Also have 10 second reload time. Hybrids are 5 because they are a hybrid between lazors and projectile.
Drones: Can take an age to swap out / fly to target when you release a new one etc - their effective 'reload' time
2. Ship penalties.
Turrets: Most if not all ship penalties have been removed from T2 turret ammo.
Missiles: Using T2 missiles still either blows up your ship's sig radius or slows you to a crawl.
Blasters: Void still suffer a tracking penalty as well as capacitor. Null suffers a massive tracking penalty. Rails: Spike is pointless without an on-grid warp nerf.
3. Enhancement.
Turrets: Many different types of T2 ammo have been tweeked in their performance or the turrets themselves have been modified to provide better tracking, damage, range and so on by boosting the actual weapon it self or moduals that affect them like tracking enhancers.
Missiles: Nothing...and my Nighthawk still needs more grid!
Drake: Can fit strong tank + wmd + point and a full rack of damage mods in the lows. No other BC can do this.
4. You forgot to mention
- Missiles do not use cap. So no worries about capping out and not being able to use your weapons. - You can select between 100% damage type. Yeah sucks a bit on the drake but you can select a damage type. - Surprise factor that you cannot tell from looking at the ship what weapons they have fitted.
FYP |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
290
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 17:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aedan Vals wrote:Mike Whiite wrote:Aedan Vals wrote:Goose99 wrote:The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.  Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint? Yes i realized. Still without any bonuses its hardly worth it.
Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words. |

A'Brantox Foson
Spiritus Draconis
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 17:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
1. Too many caldari pilots. 2. Too many caldari pilots carebearing 3. Too many caldari pilots not going into low/nullsec. 4. Too many caldari pilots that have trained cruise missiles to 5. (wasted energy and money)
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 18:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
A'Brantox Foson wrote:Oh noez, Caldari pilots aren't going into null with their Ravens because their Cruises can't pvp. 
Solution: Buff it so that they can pvp. |

Castor Narcissus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 18:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Goose99 wrote: Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words
So what you propose is to buff missiles enough, so that people fit Launchers instead of Projectiles in unbonused slots.
Seems reasonable to me, where can i sign? |
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
291
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Castor Narcissus wrote:Goose99 wrote: Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words
So what you propose is to buff missiles enough, so that people fit Launchers instead of neuts in launcher slots. Seems reasonable to me, where can i sign?
Fixed that for you. |

GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?
"My weapon system of choice should have the exact same upgrades with different names because I dislike the unique drawback that I am in no way forced to endure"
...
"WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH"
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
GavinCapacitor wrote:Patri Andari wrote:stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters? "My weapon system of choice should have the exact same upgrades with different names because I dislike the unique drawback that I am in no way forced to endure" ... "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH"
That's like saying: "I want my gun drawbacks to be just like that of Winmatar." Oh wait, there aren't any. |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 01:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Remove T2 Missile ship drawbacks please!
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Sunviking
The Shining Knights
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 13:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks.
Here's my ideas:
All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20% All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity. Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it. Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates.
The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced...
But it's just an idea 
|

Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 14:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks. Here's my ideas: All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20% All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity. Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it. Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates. The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced... But it's just an idea 
I can go with that
|

Tasiv Deka
The Baseborn Syndicate
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 15:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Sunviking wrote:Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks. Here's my ideas: All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20% All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity. Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it. Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates. The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced... But it's just an idea  I can go with that
i agree
also i do like the idea of giving torps (and possibly cruise) AoE damage. Oh no you've drained my Drake however will I run the coffee maker |

Thelron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 20:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:SMT008 wrote:Missiles themselves don't need a real boost. Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though. Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance.  Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost. Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit. And T2 defenders, while you're at it.  F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple : Either shoot the last target you were aggressing. Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you. That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field. And it looks fair to me, I guess  Or CCP may revert the missiles to the original effects and be granted AoE dmg back again... Plz oh PLZ!! do such thing just for the LULZ!!!
+1, and make sure that includes the old "if you can cram it in the rack, you can fire it" system instead of this "used with chargegroup" silliness brought in from turret-land.
It'd be nice if cruises and torps didn't require *so much* painting/webbing to be worth firing at anything other than L4 NPCs, though... torps aren't even *really* all that good for that. 5-second ammo change and extra modules and all is just stupid though... too many things that need a little basic adjustment get whitewashed with a ton of major ovarhauls elsewhere as it is. |

Mira Lynne
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 02:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
Definitely needs some work. IMO: Increase Torp/HAM/Rocket Explosion Radius. Make Explosion Radius Skill/Rigs affect Torp/HAM/Rockets. Increase Torp Damage by 5-15% Increase Cruise Damage Drastically. Possibly Include some sort of Tracking Computer/ Tracking Enhances for missiles? Reduces Exp. Radius and increases Flight Time, Velocity, and Exp. Velocity, and can take scripts. Would make the Golem slightly more user friendly. |
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