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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
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Posted - 2011.12.03 19:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP you have balanced T2 ammo at least twice in recent history. Each balance had lots of goodies for turrets. As of Crucible, we are left with turret weapons systems that are remarkably changed today compared to just a few short years ago. There is something in there for almost everyone especially when using T2 ammo....BUT
None of these changes as comprehensive as they have been even considered missiles.
This is the current state of balance resulting from your recent actions and inactions:
1. Reload
Turrets: All turrets can reload their ammo either instantly (lasers) or within 5 seconds.
Missiles: It still takes 10 seconds to load ammo.
2. Ship penalties.
Turrets: Most if not all ship penalties have been removed from T2 turret ammo.
Missiles: Using T2 missiles still either blows up your ship's sig radius or slows you to a crawl.
3. Enhancement.
Turrets: Many different types of T2 ammo have been tweeked in their performance or the turrets themselves have been modified to provide better tracking, damage, range and so on by boosting the actual weapon it self or moduals that affect them like tracking enhancers.
Missiles: Nothing...and my Nighthawk still needs more grid!
So my question is are there any plans to take a look at balancing missiles in the near future? I would settle for the obvious for now.
Remove T2 missile ship penalties and give us a 5 second reload ....Please.
In the long run I would love it if you thought about:
*Revisiting the missile damage formula so that it is more possible to do damage to stationary targets. *Cruise missiles? nuff said! *Introduce low slot and or mid slot missile enhancement modules. * Reconsider this silly doctrine that T2 Missile ammo is meant only to attack a higher ship class. (This is poorly thought out. Please reconsider it.)
Baring any action at all how about you at least communicate with us about why you choose not to act on these issues?
What considerations have you taken into account that lead you to believe things are fine as they are, for example.
Thanks in advance,
Patri |
Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.12.03 20:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Missile is not all about R.O.F and damage bonus, they also depend heavily on Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity. Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
30
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Posted - 2011.12.03 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Projectile weapons still have a ten second reload time. More to the point, missiles as a whole are in no way underpowered. Rockets, HAMs, and HMLs are all solid weapons, and torps are borderline. Standards are fine in terms of range and damage; their only problem is that standard launchers are borderline unfittable on most frigates. The only really poor missiles are cruises, which could use some attention. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
145
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Posted - 2011.12.03 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:So my question is are there any plans to take a look at balancing missiles in the near future? I would settle for the obvious for now.
Remove T2 missile ship penalties and give us a 5 second reload ....Please.
In the long run I would love it if you thought about:
*Revisiting the missile damage formula so that it is more possible to do damage to stationary targets. *Cruise missiles? nuff said! *Introduce low slot and or mid slot missile enhancement modules. * Reconsider this silly doctrine that T2 Missile ammo is meant only to attack a higher ship class. (This is poorly thought out. Please reconsider it.)
Projectiles still have a 10 second reload time. Cruise missiles do need their own gimmick or a heavy boost. Missiles don't need their own equivalent to TEs. Precision missiles are meant to attack smaller targets.
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Songbird
41
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Posted - 2011.12.03 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
low slot missile enhancement modules is the ballistic control systems? Enhances both rof and damage. Midslot is web + target painter - both will increase your missile damage |
Opertone
Signal 7
29
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Posted - 2011.12.03 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'd like a blue Pill... to make my 'warhead' smaller. I am serious.
I can vote for defender missiles revamp. It appears to me that missiles are fun and fine, since the great nano nerf. Omen.
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Skinae
Hello Kitty Hug Patrol
8
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Posted - 2011.12.03 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
The two easiest ships to fly in the game (Drake, Tengu), do not deserve any kind of buff what so ever. |
Asuka Smith
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
6
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Posted - 2011.12.03 22:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Defenders, rockets, standards, all t2 variants need help. |
stoicfaux
389
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Posted - 2011.12.03 22:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
-Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.)
/pedantic
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
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Posted - 2011.12.03 23:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic
Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?
Painters do not have the same viabilty as the before mentioned modules which increase damage to all targets a ship fires on without having to activate the module on each target. Painters are helpful to turrets, missiles, bombs, and drones. Yet drones and all turrets have a way to alter their stats without having to target a ship and wonder about falloff. Missile deserve the same. It's not just convenience. I'd love to hear the cries if CCP ever took away tracking computers or enhancers and told peeps to just use painters.
I must also admit I was unaware that projectiles also retained the 10 second reload. That being said, seems only fair with such as OP weapon system.
Time for more beer!
Patri
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
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Posted - 2011.12.03 23:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:- Dare Devel wrote: Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.) /pedantic
Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?
Painters do not have the same viabilty as the before mentioned modules which increase damage to all targets a ship fires on without having to activate the module on each target. Painters are helpful to turrets, missiles, bombs, and drones. Yet drones and all turrets have a way to alter their stats without having to target a ship and wonder about falloff. Missile deserve the same. It's not just convenience. I'd love to hear the cries if CCP ever took away tracking computers or enhancers and told peeps to just use painters.
I must also admit I was unaware that projectiles also retained the 10 second reload. That being said, seems only fair with such as OP weapon system.
Time for more beer!
Patri
P.S. Strange no one else has a problem with T2 missiles retaining their ship penalties. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
60
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Posted - 2011.12.03 23:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Precision cruise need to lose their penalty to ship speed. They also need explosion radius reduced to 200m down from 270m to be viable.
Fury cruise need their explosion radius reduced from 550m to 450m which is equal to a T1 torpedo.
Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants. |
Khrage
0
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Posted - 2011.12.04 00:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Frayn wrote:Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants.
they don't already? |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
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Posted - 2011.12.04 01:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Arthur Frayn wrote:Torpedoes need to benefit from all the explosion radius modifiers from skills, rigs and implants. they don't already?
They don't. Btw, just bring back AOE torp of the olden times. Good times. |
White Matar Ra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
tl;dr, but I agree after looking over patch notes and seeing how much love hybrids got it makes me hopeful CCP will take a look some of the neglected missiles (cruise, standard, and to a lesser extent torps/rockets). |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
White Matar Ra wrote:tl;dr, but I agree after looking over patch notes and seeing how much love hybrids got it makes me hopeful CCP will take a look some of the neglected missiles (cruise, standard, and to a lesser extent torps/rockets).
All missiles except rockets could use some work. Incidentally, rockets got a buff earlier.
Btw, hmls don't fare better than cruise/standard as a weapon system in its niche, it's just that drake makes up for it. Nerf drake and buff hml, and perhaps you'll see them on other boats' launcher highs instead of neuts. |
White Matar Ra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
I haven't been back long enough to say how well they did with rockets, but if they also got love, then sweet.
HML seem in a good place, but there are a couple HML ships that are hard to fit and/or have a stupid role (cerb). |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
White Matar Ra wrote:I haven't been back long enough to say how well they did with rockets, but if they also got love, then sweet.
HML seem in a good place, but there are a couple HML ships that are hard to fit and/or have a stupid role (cerb).
Hml don't suck as badly as cruise. That's not the same as them being good. Drake does well despite hmls, not because of it. It's the buffer. If drakes can fit arties, that drake blob would be fit differently... Cerb isn't bad in the sniper hac role, if you compare its ship stats to zealot/munnin, it's a joke because of hmls, where others have real weapons. |
White Matar Ra
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think the sniper role with missiles in general is a joke. Then again, sniping in general is a joke when I can have my alt provide a warpin within seconds. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
17
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Posted - 2011.12.04 05:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skinae wrote:The two easiest ships to fly in the game (Drake, Tengu), do not deserve any kind of buff what so ever.
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
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Posted - 2011.12.04 06:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Skinae wrote:The worst weapon system to use in the game (missiles), deserve buff, Winmatar and projectiles deserves nerf.
^Fixed that for you. |
Seigfried Hakaari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.12.04 06:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Heavies are generally fine with the exception of Precision. Precision are actually useless. Faction are far and away better.
One thing i would like to see for Missiles though is a High Velocity variant; Damage somewhere between Standard Tech 1 and Fury, Half the regular Flight time at double Velocity, or at least that's the idea. Basically, something to make Missiles better in fleets, so the damage can be applied in equal numbers without such a massive delay. Unfortunately i think it might be a bit at odds with Flight time and Velocity modifying skills/Bonuses, so it's pretty much a pipe dream.
Cruise and Torps are horrible outside of very specific ship setups, and it doesn't help that every ship that is bonused for them looks like it was beat in the face with a Frying Pan. |
FlameGlow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2011.12.04 09:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Seigfried Hakaari wrote:Heavies are generally fine with the exception of Precision. Precision are actually useless. Faction are far and away better.
Not that precision was bad idea in itself, bad idea was slashing their base damage, range and putting a speed penalty on top. Those could be useful if they were exactly the same as T1 but with better explosion radius&velocity |
Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.12.04 10:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dare Devel wrote:Missile is not all about R.O.F and damage bonus, they also depend heavily on Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity. Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.
This will help Torps and Citadel ammo greatly, in getting their damage applied to their moving targets. While using these type of ammo (which are high damage per volley) the application of the damage is more important rather than increasing the ROF. For instance a sieged phoenix can be speed tanked by another capital ship (moving at 50+ m/s) easily. In such cases modules like BCS can be swapped for mods giving bonus to explosion velocity and decreasing Explosion radius. Smaller ships like Stealth Bombers might use this but T3, Battlecruisers, HACs or Frigates may not use it since small and medium missiles have enough explosion velocity.
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SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
290
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Posted - 2011.12.04 12:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Missiles themselves don't need a real boost.
Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though.
Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance.
Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost.
Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit.
And T2 defenders, while you're at it.
F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple :
Either shoot the last target you were aggressing.
Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you.
That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field.
And it looks fair to me, I guess |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
13
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Posted - 2011.12.04 13:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Missiles themselves don't need a real boost. Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though. Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance. Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost. Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit. And T2 defenders, while you're at it. F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple : Either shoot the last target you were aggressing. Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you. That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field. And it looks fair to me, I guess
Or CCP may revert the missiles to the original effects and be granted AoE dmg back again...
Plz oh PLZ!! do such thing just for the LULZ!!!
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DeepfriedTator
HotRock Mining PLC
0
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Posted - 2011.12.04 16:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
I agree lets give missles a buff. We can add the following as well to make them more like turrets
1. Under a certain range. Infact lets just say they didnt have time to arm the warhead.
2. Anything traveling faster than 1km will not be hit as long as it is orbiting the said ship.
3. Move BCU's to mid slots so shield ships have to sacrifice their shields for a damage bonus
4. We can add some cap usage to the firing of missles.
I'm sorry for the lack of helpfull suggestions. Currently at work so I'm not at home with my list of helpfull ideas for the game.
Thanks all |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
264
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Posted - 2011.12.04 16:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
DeepfriedTator wrote:I agree lets give missles a buff. We can add the following as well to make them more like turrets
1. Under a certain range. Infact lets just say they didnt have time to arm the warhead.
2. Anything traveling faster than 1km will not be hit as long as it is orbiting the said ship.
3. Move BCU's to mid slots so shield ships have to sacrifice their shields for a damage bonus
4. We can add some cap usage to the firing of missles.
I'm sorry for the lack of helpfull suggestions. Currently at work so I'm not at home with my list of helpfull ideas for the game.
Thanks all
1. Yes, turrets other than blasters should not activate under certain range. Don't be sorry, in fact, this is absolutely brilliant.
2. Missiles already can't hit anything traveling faster than 1km, at any range.
3. Yes, Winmatar gyros should be moved to mids, so that they may get TEs in lows for extra kiting winnage. I'd support same for missiles, but I guess they don't have TEs. On the bright side, Khanid will be less fail, and nanodrakes ftw.
4. Yes, Winmatar should use cap. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
7
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Can we just get the bloody ship penalties removed from T2 missiles already?
How the hell can my Merlin or Hawk ever equip range bonused javelin rockets when they slow me to a crawl? Meanwhile everyone zips around blowing **** up!
Did someone forget Caldari are already the slowest race with the largest sig radius? Now we are the only ones left with punishing T2 ammo that makes our ship.....Even Slower AND Fatter!
Please fix this.
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Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.05 01:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
I just want another passive tank/missile combo that isn't insane to train for. Cruiser or Battleship I don't care. |
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