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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:34:00 -
[1]
Never got a chance to test it as I lost sever connection and are now #300 in queue but here are some info at least:
Astrometrics changed to allow 3 more scan groups per level. 2 new skills, one thart increase probe sensor strenght by 5% (I think it was) per level and one that decrease scan time by 10% per level (and is a rank 8 skill...).
Lots of new probes and I mean LOTS. The current probes are still there with slightly changed stats and have around 2-20 sensor strenght to all 4 kinds (same type of sensor strengh that ecm use).
Then there are 3-4 new probes, all which comes in 4 version, one for each sensor type. They have 500 to primary sensor type strenght and 100 to the rest.
1 new scan probe launcher, Recon launcher, almost same fitting (2pg instead of 1) much less cargo space (4 m3 instead of 40 m3) and 120 sec scan time instead of 600sec.
That's all I had time to check before I was disconnected, will try to get more info soon.
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Magunus
The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:38:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Hoshi Never got a chance to test it as I lost sever connection and are now #300 in queue but here are some info at least:
Astrometrics changed to allow 3 more scan groups per level. 2 new skills, one thart increase probe sensor strenght by 5% (I think it was) per level and one that decrease scan time by 10% per level (and is a rank 8 skill...).
Lots of new probes and I mean LOTS. The current probes are still there with slightly changed stats and have around 2-20 sensor strenght to all 4 kinds (same type of sensor strengh that ecm use).
Then there are 3-4 new probes, all which comes in 4 version, one for each sensor type. They have 500 to primary sensor type strenght and 100 to the rest.
1 new scan probe launcher, Recon launcher, almost same fitting (2pg instead of 1) much less cargo space (4 m3 instead of 40 m3) and 120 sec scan time instead of 600sec.
That's all I had time to check before I was disconnected, will try to get more info soon.
Wait a second. You mean to find a ship in space, you first have to know what race that ship belongs to? ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Wicaeed
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:40:00 -
[3]
I am kind of disappointed with the current changes taht are being proposed. I am against the idea of cloaked ships being able to be scanned out, in theory anyways. Cloaked ships should be unscannable. Period. But this is Eve, and the carebears always have to have their say.
What I would like to see is that Covert Ops Cloaking Device II's be made so that you can not be scanned out in them. It would make sense because it is used by a ship that specialises in cloaking. It's not used by some guy who slapped a T2 Cloak on his battleship so he could go around and terrorize miners. It is a specific fit module that is only used by a handful of ships in the game, and paying 70m for it would actually make sense if you couldn't be scanned out while using it.
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:49:00 -
[4]
Bump as I updated the initial post a lot.
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Magunus Wait a second. You mean to find a ship in space, you first have to know what race that ship belongs to?
That can't be the case, since the recon probes are omni sensor.
I would speculate that the different sensor types are used for finding different types of spacial phenomena. Maybe one is specialized for ships, one for asteroid belts, one for complexes, and one for gas clouds, or something along those lines.
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Hectaire Glade
Amarr Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:24:00 -
[6]
Be interested to see if you can get this working, i was scanning earlier with the new system and didnt get a single result set back, seemed borked to me. Keep up the good work :)
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Wicaeed I am kind of disappointed with the current changes taht are being proposed. I am against the idea of cloaked ships being able to be scanned out, in theory anyways. Cloaked ships should be unscannable. Period. But this is Eve, and the carebears always have to have their say.
Yes, nothing is more carebear than removing the ability to permasafespot with cloaks. Man, covert ops cloaks sure are pretty hardcore - what with being effectively invincible and all?
My heart is pumping already.
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Originally by: Wicaeed I am kind of disappointed with the current changes taht are being proposed. I am against the idea of cloaked ships being able to be scanned out, in theory anyways. Cloaked ships should be unscannable. Period. But this is Eve, and the carebears always have to have their say.
Yes, nothing is more carebear than removing the ability to permasafespot with cloaks. Man, covert ops cloaks sure are pretty hardcore - what with being effectively invincible and all?
My heart is pumping already.
Eh, you put an 70-80 mil isk module on a ship, so you can help your gang/alliance/whatever. Realize you just spend this isk on a ship, and the module to no benifit to yourself and then tell me that 80mil isnt worth being able to safespot cloaked, when you gotta take a ****.
It removes one of the biggest reasons for a recon/covert ops... Recon. If you can scan out cloaked targets, you can scan them out at gates, and remove the whole role of the recon ships from the game.... __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.10.24 23:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Originally by: Wicaeed I am kind of disappointed with the current changes taht are being proposed. I am against the idea of cloaked ships being able to be scanned out, in theory anyways. Cloaked ships should be unscannable. Period. But this is Eve, and the carebears always have to have their say.
Yes, nothing is more carebear than removing the ability to permasafespot with cloaks. Man, covert ops cloaks sure are pretty hardcore - what with being effectively invincible and all?
My heart is pumping already.
Eh, you put an 70-80 mil isk module on a ship, so you can help your gang/alliance/whatever. Realize you just spend this isk on a ship, and the module to no benifit to yourself and then tell me that 80mil isnt worth being able to safespot cloaked, when you gotta take a ****.
It removes one of the biggest reasons for a recon/covert ops... Recon. If you can scan out cloaked targets, you can scan them out at gates, and remove the whole role of the recon ships from the game....
No, It just means that mr cov ops has to move around a little.
Afk stationary cloaking = vulnerable Piloted cloaking = fine, in 300 secs, hell in 60 secs any cloaked pilot worth his salt will be well out of scan result decloak range. So maybe a modicum of risk hinges on if the scan result is the cloaked ships position at the beginning of the scan cycle or the end.
Only an eegit sits around in a cloaked ship if there is currently any chance a fast moving hostile saw where you cloaked. This just adds the same proviso to cloaking 23/7.
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Giant Haystacks
Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:21:00 -
[10]
Can someone check the fitting costs of the Recon Probe Launcher? The coldfront db shows 880 :( Linkage
If thats right whats it supposed to go on?
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Hayabusa Fury
Caldari Wu-Tang Financial Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Originally by: Wicaeed I am kind of disappointed with the current changes taht are being proposed. I am against the idea of cloaked ships being able to be scanned out, in theory anyways. Cloaked ships should be unscannable. Period. But this is Eve, and the carebears always have to have their say.
Yes, nothing is more carebear than removing the ability to permasafespot with cloaks. Man, covert ops cloaks sure are pretty hardcore - what with being effectively invincible and all?
My heart is pumping already.
Yes, invincibly sitting there doing nothing proactive at all 4tw! How dare they? While were at it, I think we need to add something so I can make afk people undock at my desire. Can't just have them sitting there in their station safespot.
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"I can not recall the number of times my superior intellect has got me knee deep in ****!" --Harely Hayes |
Asharaak
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Giant Haystacks If thats right whats it supposed to go on?
Since Covert Ops Frigates get the bonus for using standard probe launchers, the obvious answer (considering the name) would be they are only usable on recon cruisers.
Presumably they will recieve the good old (hidden) cpu reduction bonus in order to fit them.
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Giant Haystacks
Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Asharaak
Originally by: Giant Haystacks If thats right whats it supposed to go on?
Since Covert Ops Frigates get the bonus for using standard probe launchers, the obvious answer (considering the name) would be they are only usable on recon cruisers.
Presumably they will recieve the good old (hidden) cpu reduction bonus in order to fit them.
Covert ops frigs don't get a cpu reduction for standard scan probe launchers, they take 220 cpu on anything.
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Syllke Aronstein
Gallente Le Moulin Rouge
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:39:00 -
[14]
Stealth Bombers are hardly used because their cloaking ability sucks really badly, and removes their suprise element for all except campers. Adding the ability for people to scan out cloaked ships not only completely removes all abilities from stealth bombers but additionally removes the suprise elements from Recon and Covert ops ships too.
Their main strength comes from people not knowing what is out there, and the fear factor they develop as a result.
I can understand why this has been added, to counter non cloak specific ships cloaking, such as Indys and BS's, but surely some kind of cap drain adjustment based on ship mass or sig radius meaning that enormous ships could only run for 4 or 5 cycles before having to decloak, would be more appropriate, rather than a sweeping sentence over the whole cloaker class.
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EvilNate
Caldari Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 11:42:00 -
[15]
Can we get back on track and talk about the new scanning and probing?
Any new info?
Nate.
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.10.25 12:05:00 -
[16]
The recon probe launchers are more for hunting ships. The other probes, gravimetric and such named are very accurate but take a lot of time to scan. They are mostly useful for finding celestial anomalies.
PS. I've already sent a mail about getting the two new skills seeded. _______________ |
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.10.25 12:07:00 -
[17]
PS. I've already sent a mail about getting the two new skills seeded. I'll take a look at the flight time of snoop probes after lunch, which smells so good. Actually I might just take the afternoon off and rub my tummy. _______________ |
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Wintermoon
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.25 12:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tuxford PS. I've already sent a mail about getting the two new skills seeded. I'll take a look at the flight time of snoop probes after lunch, which smells so good. Actually I might just take the afternoon off and rub my tummy.
Get someone else to rub your tummy, frees up valuable time to look at the probes. ;)
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.10.25 12:50:00 -
[19]
Ok here's the deal with snoop probes. They are really expected to go into the recon probes which has a two minute base scan time. With good skills you can put them into the scan probe launchers but why would you do that. You're better of using one of the bigger probes if you're gonna do that anyway. _______________ |
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Garramon
Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tuxford Ok here's the deal with snoop probes. They are really expected to go into the recon probes which has a two minute base scan time. With good skills you can put them into the scan probe launchers but why would you do that. You're better of using one of the bigger probes if you're gonna do that anyway.
Woot! Now I am even more confused. For some reason the fact that ~50% of the people replying to the thread fail to read and understand the point of the OP is hilarious.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:43:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Nyphur on 25/10/2006 13:44:11
Is there a reason that the scan deciations were pretty much obliterated? The observator has a 10,000km scan deviation, that means you just launch that, scan, warp to the point and launch 3 3au probes to get a fix on anyone you want. Or am I missing something about the new system?
In fact, with all these scan deviations being so small, they're pretty much pointless. Why is there a deviation at all if it's going to be so small that the difference between probe size classes doesn't actually make a difference to the time it takes you to track down someone? That means the bigger probe is always better.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
DaemonBarber
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:07:00 -
[22]
Can someone explain why the probes have sensor strengths? Obviously the system has changed, but I'm having trouble figuring out how those fit in (unless scanning is chance based now?).
Can you jam a scan probe...?
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Aertuun
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:11:00 -
[23]
Some points:
1. If the scan strength on the probes determines how far the deviation is from the target ship, that could work.
If it causes probing to "fail" (aka ECM), that would possibly be the worst implementation imaginable. People don't want to wait around for minutes at a time "gambling" on whether a result will turn up or not.
2. Are the "Probes to Analyze" figures current? If so, why are we keeping the old 3 probe system? It was ugly, and no-one used it. The only way to reliably probe was to drop the three probes in a line.
Better to make all probes only require one probe. Anything else just seems like a waste of player time, and makes everything more fiddly.
3. Scan times for ships still seem 100% or more too long. Even with ship and skill bonuses (assuming they are still around in Kali), scanning out a ship using max ship+skill bonuses (-50% and -50%) would take 30 seconds (!). That's not including the time to drop however many probes are needed, PLUS the time to scan again if you're dropped too far from the target.
Cutting it by 50% down to 15 seconds with max skills would work far better, or even less. If probes in PvP are going to have ANY use, the entire probing process from dropped probe > landing on the target should happen in roughly a 1 minute time span.
This is from anywhere in the system. Otherwise, people will just warp around as they do now, and will be just as invincible and unfindable as they are now.
PLEASE PLEASE fix this aspect of PvP.
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:46:00 -
[24]
Yeah, lets make it so every noob and his dog can probe people. Lets give every covert pilot that's spent hours and days of his time perfecting the art of probing a smack in the face.
Probing should be something that takes true player skill to master, not something where you just drop a probe, scan once and warp to the target. That's just stupid.
Scan probing should be very challenging, because that's what seperates truly competent covert from wannabe noobs. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy |
Marsh Mallow
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:57:00 -
[25]
What's the fitting on the RECON probe launcher? Can you use it on Cover-ops frigates, or is it for Recons (T2 cruisers)?
Thanks for the info! |
Aertuun
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Damien Smith Yeah, lets make it so every noob and his dog can probe people. Lets give every covert pilot that's spent hours and days of his time perfecting the art of probing a smack in the face.
Probing should be something that takes true player skill to master, not something where you just drop a probe, scan once and warp to the target. That's just stupid.
Scan probing should be very challenging, because that's what seperates truly competent covert from wannabe noobs.
How do any of the suggestions above have anything to do with making things "easier"?
1. If they change scan probes to use ECM random chance, having probes fail randomly doesn't make things "harder". It just makes things more time consuming and annoying.
2. Using three probes rather than just one is purely cosmetic. Having to drop three probes in a line rather than just one probe on its own isn't "harder", it's just more time consuming.
3. Reducing the time it takes for scan probes to return results doesn't make things "harder". It just moves scan probes into an area where they might actually be usesful for PvP.
The current version of scan probing *is* to just drop three probe and then warp straight to the target. The hard part is getting to a probable range using BMs and the scanner.
Making scan probes useful in PvP has nothing to do with making them "easier" or "harder". It has lots to do with making them useful.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Damien Smith Yeah, lets make it so every noob and his dog can probe people. Lets give every covert pilot that's spent hours and days of his time perfecting the art of probing a smack in the face.
Probing should be something that takes true player skill to master, not something where you just drop a probe, scan once and warp to the target. That's just stupid.
Scan probing should be very challenging, because that's what seperates truly competent covert from wannabe noobs.
I am also disappointed. They said they would make the probes 3D, that was the perfect solution. Instead they are basically releasing "win probes" where you can just launch them, scan and warp to your target. Instant win with no pilot-skill.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
McTaggart
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 -
[28]
So basically you have two types of probing; one for finding everything and one for finding ships.
Finding everything happens with the big, slow but very accurate probes (and the non-recon launcher). Mainly used for exploration. Only one probe needed.
Finding ships uses the recon probe launcher, which is faster and uses probes similar to what we have now. Techniques probably similar to now but (hopefully) without this 1-au-or-less-from-the-orbital-plane nonsense.
Am I near the mark? hmm... test this out on the test server or pass my exams... such a hard damn decision.
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Skarsnik
Caldari A.W.M
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:59:00 -
[29]
This I think is going to change things for the better. If you take into account the smaller gangs offered by the skill tree currently on SiSi this may make for an even further varied group of differently skilled pilots.
I honestly wonder if CCP are doing this and creating Recon Launchers that only fit to Recon ships as a new bebfit over the cyno generation.
Interesting changes that I will be keeping my beady eye on at least. ------------- EVE-CCG Pre-orders EVE-Ink Tattoo Project |
Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2006.10.25 16:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Skarsnik This I think is going to change things for the better. If you take into account the smaller gangs offered by the skill tree currently on SiSi this may make for an even further varied group of differently skilled pilots.
I honestly wonder if CCP are doing this and creating Recon Launchers that only fit to Recon ships as a new bebfit over the cyno generation.
Interesting changes that I will be keeping my beady eye on at least.
If scanning is moved from Covert frigs to Recon cruisers, and cloaked ships can now be scanned, I'm not quite sure what the purpose of a covert frig is any more. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
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Ghen
White Wolves Defence league
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:08:00 -
[31]
Recon probe launchers can be fit on covops frigates as well (bit of a bad name I guess).
Using a snoop probe will have a 30 second scan time with max skills, I believe there's also a rig that will shave 15% off that if you use the t2 version. The rate of fire on rpl is 2.5 seconds and you only need one probe to scan, so in effect it will take you 33 seconds or a bit under to scan someone down.
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Rathstern Executus
Gallente Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:15:00 -
[32]
Dropping an observator, then dropping a snoop almost certainly won't work. There is a new rule enforced on probe locations -- probes cannot be within the scan range of other probes. If you're within the scan range of another probe (hopefully only another of yours) you cannot drop a probe. If the probe you're trying to launch would have another probe in scan range, it will not launch.
Drop an observator, warp to 10,000k, you have to wait for the observator to wear off.
A side effect of this is that you can no longer use observators for creating way off-grid SS's, and probing things out just got a hell of a lot cheaper.
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Skarsnik This I think is going to change things for the better. If you take into account the smaller gangs offered by the skill tree currently on SiSi this may make for an even further varied group of differently skilled pilots.
I honestly wonder if CCP are doing this and creating Recon Launchers that only fit to Recon ships as a new bebfit over the cyno generation.
Interesting changes that I will be keeping my beady eye on at least.
Expect a new type of probe soon that can only be used with that launcher on recon ships.... cynosural field probe. Im betting that will be how they get around the "cant put cyno and cloak on recons" bug.
This signature space for rent |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:49:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Aertuun The only way to reliably probe was to drop the three probes in a line.
Patently not true, if you actually understand how the current system works.
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CelticWarrior
Lords Of Guile Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:00:00 -
[35]
With these new quick scanning and accurate probes it just got a whole lot harder for alliances to take a rivals system etc.Your not even gonna be able to leave ur screen for more than 30 secs,theres gonna be one hell of alot of logging off and on with this just to take a leak.
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DaemonBarber
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:28:00 -
[36]
I know it's a bit old but:
From the 06/26/06 TomB Blog:
Quote: Lost & Found Just finding objects will be based on the probe type you are using. Its stats will 'battle' against the stats of the objects within its scan radius, if the probe wins it finds the object and gives you the estimated location of the findings.
Also from the comments:
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: F'nog If we use more than one probe at a time, does that increase our chances of success and accuracy?
Now there's something I forgot to mention;
- Probes can not be deployed within scan radius of another probe owned by the same person
- Probe strength stacks with other probes if an object is located in both probe radiuses
- Inaccuracy is stacked as well with even freakier results, "stacking" a probe with high inaccruacy and another one with low inaccuracy won't give the same results as if the low inaccuracy would have given you
Also this:
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Donna Darko What happens to the Covert ops? Why did they have to lose their role as the fastest scanning ship?
Woopsie, the name "Recon Launcher" has nothing to do with Recon ships there, it's just called that atm, Covert Ops are still supposed to be equally or even more scan based than Recons. I'll get the name changed, thanks for pointing that out.
Quote: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=357367
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DaemonBarber
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:31:00 -
[37]
Given that the above is 4 months old it could have changed, but can anyone confirm any of that? Perhaps someone with those shiny gold bars?
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xHoodx
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Yes, nothing is more carebear than removing the ability to permasafespot with cloaks. Man, covert ops cloaks sure are pretty hardcore - what with being effectively invincible and all?
My heart is pumping already.
If I sit docked in station all day, am I invincible? Or if I log off for the day, I'm invincible until I get back on? Are you one of the people who thinks cloaking and going afk for a bit in a system is griefing?
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Mahrin Skel
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:45:00 -
[39]
I'm seriously worried about this business of being able to scan and probe out cloaked ships. It's hard enough to get enough people to fly coverts in fleet ops, one of the reasons they do is because it allows you to deal with Real Life issues by simply going AFK. Take that away, and all you have left is the boredom.
--Dave
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: xHoodx
If I sit docked in station all day, am I invincible?
Yes, but it takes you longer than 6 seconds to move from a station to a belt and warpscramble a target.
Quote: Or if I log off for the day, I'm invincible until I get back on?
It probably takes you a good bit longer than a few seconds to log on too.
Quote: Are you one of the people who thinks cloaking and going afk for a bit in a system is griefing?
Are you one of those people that thinks cloaked capitals is brilliant?
This can't possibly be hard to understand. Launching into space in EvE is what provides a majority of the opportunitys (yes, not all - no need to harp on that) - the cost thereof is being attackable. Remove that and you're playing a game you can impossibly lose, short of being criminally stupid.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Damien Smith Yeah, lets make it so every noob and his dog can probe people. Lets give every covert pilot that's spent hours and days of his time perfecting the art of probing a smack in the face.
Probing should be something that takes true player skill to master, not something where you just drop a probe, scan once and warp to the target. That's just stupid.
Scan probing should be very challenging, because that's what seperates truly competent covert from wannabe noobs.
I am also disappointed. They said they would make the probes 3D, that was the perfect solution. Instead they are basically releasing "win probes" where you can just launch them, scan and warp to your target. Instant win with no pilot-skill.
While I'm all for the 3-dimensional fun involved in probing, and see how with the depth of the current system this is somewhat of a step back - I have to wonder, wouldn't it be worthwhile if these probes actually produce results over wide enough areas and fast enough to make finding safespotters reasonable?
As it stands, the system may be interesting - but it's also entirely superflous as anyone non-afk/missioning won't be caught by it due to probes being scannable and taking 90s to resolve.
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xHoodx
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:34:00 -
[42]
Iirc there is at least a 5 second delay before a recon ship can even start locking you after uncloaking, no better with a cov ops frigate. If you're not alert enough to avoid the ship in that time you're not alert enough to avoid ships without cloaks either.
My point was that saying a cloaked ship is invincible is ridiculous, you can't fight while cloaked. You can't find it with probes or scanner, this is true... but that's the whole point of the cloaks no?
You can't activate any modules while cloaked, you can't send fighters then cloak or you will lose your fighters. What excactly is your problem with cloaked cap ships again? Scan it down when it is actually posing a threat ie fighting you or your friends... To answer your question I don't have a problem with cloaks on cap ships... you didn't answer mine except with another question :)
If you couldn't scan down the ship while it was actually doing some fighting you missed your chance. Try again next time and hope for better luck. Or get your act together and do it without the luck :)
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:58:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mahrin Skel I'm seriously worried about this business of being able to scan and probe out cloaked ships. It's hard enough to get enough people to fly coverts in fleet ops, one of the reasons they do is because it allows you to deal with Real Life issues by simply going AFK. Take that away, and all you have left is the boredom.
--Dave
I really wouldnt worry about it too much. You're not going to land in de-cloaking range of the ship and you then have 100km3 to trawl through trying to decloak.
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Kaathar Rielspar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:06:00 -
[44]
first off: yay for probing love
let me start with how I go about using probes to find ships:
1) Find rough position of target, lets say he's in a safespot between planet 1 and planet 2. 2) Warp to planet 1 and then to planet 2, making a bm (BM1) halfway. 3) Warp to BM1 and find out where in relation to BM1 the target is, lets say he's 5 AU away toward planet 1. 4) Continually warp to planet 1 from BM1 and back, making BM's along the way in order to reduce the distance to target to sub 95mil km. 5) Once within 95mil km of target, drop 3 probes, wait, warp in, position, drop a gank squad on them.
now, questions...
1) What is the unit the 'range' attribute represents in the probe descriptions? AU? (i assume so) 2) If we cant drop 3 probes in a line at the spot where the target is within 95mil km (where 3au probes WILL pick up the target), how will it be possible to get it on all 3 probes due to the fact we cant drop them within their scan range of each other? 3a) Do we need to get a fix on the target using all 3 probes or will one suffice? (i.e. drop one at planet 1, one at planet 2, third one which will get the targets safespot when he's within 95mil km) 3b) If 3a is true, why bother with the old '3 probes to analyse' deal? switching to one probe to analyse would save a lot of headache. especially considering the probes have a much shorter flight time now and you are highly likely to have to warp around continually dropping probes because one will be slightly too close to the other. 4) Have 3au probes been fixed so we can now pick up targets at 1.5au? (their radius, or 200mil km roughly) 5) Can you flag my account for special sisi access so i can try this stuff out?
ok, so i was kidding about 5, but any info from the lucky people/devs who are testing this stuff atm would be much appreciated. ____________________
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs?
Overpriced Nos victims.
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Ghen
White Wolves Defence league
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:40:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rathstern Executus Dropping an observator, then dropping a snoop almost certainly won't work. There is a new rule enforced on probe locations -- probes cannot be within the scan range of other probes. If you're within the scan range of another probe (hopefully only another of yours) you cannot drop a probe. If the probe you're trying to launch would have another probe in scan range, it will not launch.
Drop an observator, warp to 10,000k, you have to wait for the observator to wear off.
You can right-click your probe in the scanner and destroy it.
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Deadzone
Caldari Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:33:00 -
[46]
Liketo remind folks that every post here is speculation until the Dev teams releases hard notes on exactly how they will work.
Trying to guess how they work is just making the issue more and more confusing. Perhaps we can just sit back and chill and wait for an explanation from the dev team.
DZ
Vice-Admiral
Military Division Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories |
Princess Keela
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Posted - 2006.10.26 06:21:00 -
[47]
I just had a mess on the test server with the new probes .. im not sure ifs its just me and early use of the new system but the probes force you to drop them away from each other which is fair enough but i found everytime i had deployed the final one the first was seconds from shut down ... and the system was that big ? am i doing something wrong ? also once i had actually got probes out "48au ones just to mess cause i seriouly couldnt get 3aus out in time,,, it wouldnt let me select them to analyes ... ?
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Avulsion
Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.10.26 07:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rathstern Executus A side effect of this is that you can no longer use observators for creating way off-grid SS's, and probing things out just got a hell of a lot cheaper.
If people can no longer make 100au+ off grid safespots, what good are the 192au and Observator probes now? You'll be able to find people's old safespots, but eventually they'll all be compromised and deleted.
I hope that however the new system works, it's confusing as hell. I've had astrometrics V on my skillplan for a while, and spent a lot of time reading the various guides that people had written about the old system. I liked the idea of a skill that requires more practice than SP to use. http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/708/dpgavulsion4ty.png
signature removed (max size 24000 bytes) - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected]) |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:31:00 -
[49]
It seems probing is now chance based, using the sensor strength of the ship and the probe.
So if you want to find a BS or recon ship with an observetor probe I suggest you make a cop of tea than lean back because you are going to have to scan 10-20 times (more if you are unlucky) before you the ship shows up on your scan. Each scan takes 30-120 sec depending on skills.
Also some strange results, I placed a rook and a slasher at the same SS (5 km from each other). Did 30 scans with an obervetor. In that time the rook showed up 2 times while the slasher NEVER showed up.
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Aertuun
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 13:31:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Aertuun on 26/10/2006 13:32:15 Didn't want to cross-post everywhere, so have made a couple of posts based on the discussions on this thread in the Kali development forum.
Here (PvP!)
and
Here (fleet battles!)
If CCP leave in what seems to be the proposed system of "lucky dice" scan probing, it will be an absolute disaster and nerf it beyond all usefulness.
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Princess Keela
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Posted - 2006.10.26 15:17:00 -
[51]
I totally agree it needs a hell of alot of work the only problem with the old system was the 2d scan the probes did thats all .. but from what ive seen it looks too far fetched
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:01:00 -
[52]
So probing has gone the way of ecm and become chance based, and you can now scan for cloaked ships, making them not really cloaked at all. Wonderful.
I'm really feeling the love for the humble covert ops frig... ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy |
Shoele Lialos
Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:15:00 -
[53]
I'm all with requiring probing and scanning to be a skill the player needs to have, but in the mean time, I want to ask a question of if there are different skills the character needs to have to get it done, or are we still looking at Survey and Astrometrics?
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Githtakai
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: xHoodx Iirc there is at least a 5 second delay before a recon ship can even start locking you after uncloaking, no better with a cov ops frigate. If you're not alert enough to avoid the ship in that time you're not alert enough to avoid ships without cloaks either.
My point was that saying a cloaked ship is invincible is ridiculous, you can't fight while cloaked. You can't find it with probes or scanner, this is true... but that's the whole point of the cloaks no?
You can't activate any modules while cloaked, you can't send fighters then cloak or you will lose your fighters. What excactly is your problem with cloaked cap ships again? Scan it down when it is actually posing a threat ie fighting you or your friends... To answer your question I don't have a problem with cloaks on cap ships... you didn't answer mine except with another question :)
If you couldn't scan down the ship while it was actually doing some fighting you missed your chance. Try again next time and hope for better luck. Or get your act together and do it without the luck :)
/QFT
This looks like another case of devs who own 0.0 space trying to rework the game to make it more convenient for existing alliances, like when they "fixed" cloaking at gates and made it so anyone even *trying* to lock a cloaker uncloaked them.
What role is left for the cloaker if they can't sit in a system and just watch? You might say they still can if they constantly change SS, but who wants to do that for the hours of time that pass waiting for things to happen? Right now if cloaked you can joke with your friends on TS or otherwise do whatever without having to worry that the one other guy in local is going to find you before the enemy fleet shows up.
If the job of the recon guy now involves constant SS changing, suddenly there is no reason to risk an expensive cloak module, just send a guy in a frig to warp around, same outcome. The only thing that 80mil module lets you do now is watch people from a safe distance, and even that will no longer work in fleets because any fleet jumping into a system that will be there more than a minute will start probing for you immediately.
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Aertuun
Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:50:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Aertuun on 26/10/2006 16:51:47 Have any of the people who are complaining about cloaked ships being probable ever tried using scan probes before?
A good result on the most accurate probe available will usually land a scan prober 15-60km away from the target ship. In a random direction.
So what's the problem?
If you're actually cloaked, they STILL won't be able to find you. It's all very well knowing there's a ship somewhere around you within 15km-60km or so, but unless you decloak you'll still be nigh on impossible to find.
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Princess Keela
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Posted - 2006.10.26 17:01:00 -
[56]
there is more skills now too 2 more .. and ecm isnt chanced based its what it should be ecm ship designed .. not everyone and there alt carrying ecm.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.26 17:22:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Aertuun If you're actually cloaked, they STILL won't be able to find you. It's all very well knowing there's a ship somewhere around you within 15km-60km or so, but unless you decloak you'll still be nigh on impossible to find.
Exactly. If you are not afk you can simply warp away and make a new SS. If a cov ops is lucky and gets close enough to unloak you can can easily warp before the delay of the cloak wears off if you were alligned.
The ONLY way you can kill a ship with a cloak is if it is AFKing.
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Princess Keela
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Posted - 2006.10.27 16:39:00 -
[58]
ALso if the new system is forcing you to drop probes away from other probes how the hell do you find someone whos SS is out in the sticks ? (between long distance planet routes) cause old way was to make a ss as close to the 3au as poss then drop 3 probes but if you cant drop all in same place then you aint findin them
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