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CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3964	Posted - 2015.04.04 12:23:56 - [121] - Quote Noriko Mai wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Caldari 5 wrote: I'm on SiSi atm playing around with things, just noticed a bug. The expanding/contracting triangles for both the Licensed and Unlicensed only expands/contracts the Unlicensed SKINs. Putting in my support for Packs of all skins for 1 ship type, and/or all skins for "Manufacturer"(ie Guristas/Kaalakiota/Nugoeihuvi/etc). I would also like to see a Taken to the extreme set for each race, eg Golden Amarr, (the current Punisher looks too green, I liked the previous one where it was more Golden :) ) Note on the << >> toggle button, I'm using the Dark Matter theme, and they could be made a couple of shades whiter to stand out more, or made Bolder. Awesome, thanks for the feedback! This wouldn't be a problem with Dark Opaque theme... Packs of all skins for one ship type may be confusing. New skins will be added and then this pack isn't complete anymore... EDIT: Will it be possible to remotely activate skin licences? Just like PLEX. On the packs: It depends on how the pack is done. I mentioned this in another post. On remote activation: Possibly not at launch, but it is on our list of things to do. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 4311	Posted - 2015.04.04 12:54:38 - [122] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: So on the temporary SKINs topic: There are two reason for the existence of these. First and foremost some skins can drop from NPCs as loot. See police pursuit comet. If we were to drop a permanent skin the value of that as loot goes down over time and eventually it becomes just a worthless drop. Hopefully that makes sense. Sure. How does the "timed" feature work? Does it begin counting down on SKIN activation or is it based on actual time in use on a particular hull? I assume the former, but was just hoping for a clarification (thanks). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3964	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:20:54 - [123] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: So on the temporary SKINs topic: There are two reason for the existence of these. First and foremost some skins can drop from NPCs as loot. See police pursuit comet. If we were to drop a permanent skin the value of that as loot goes down over time and eventually it becomes just a worthless drop. Hopefully that makes sense. Sure. How does the "timed" feature work? Does it begin counting down on SKIN activation or is it based on actual time in use on a particular hull? I assume the former, but was just hoping for a clarification (thanks). Thanks for the question, this will help while writing the dev blog to explain it. Short story is the timer is real time, not time in the hull, and starts once the license is injected. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 4311	Posted - 2015.04.04 14:44:12 - [124] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Thanks for the question, this will help while writing the dev blog to explain it. Short story is the timer is real time, not time in the hull, and starts once the license is injected. Thanks. Followup question... What happens when you activate a 30-day SKIN and then another 30-day SKIN? Is the effect cumulative (30+30 = 60 days) or does activating a second timed SKIN reset the value to that of the second SKIN? Can you combine similar timed SKINs to get a longer value? (ie: 30-day SKIN + 60-day SKIN = 90-day SKIN) I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

CCP Cognac C C P C C P Alliance 11	Posted - 2015.04.04 14:58:19 - [125] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Thanks for the question, this will help while writing the dev blog to explain it. Short story is the timer is real time, not time in the hull, and starts once the license is injected. Thanks. Followup question... What happens when you activate a 30-day SKIN and then another 30-day SKIN? Is the effect cumulative (30+30 = 60 days) or does activating a second timed SKIN reset the value to that of the second SKIN? Can you combine similar timed SKINs to get a longer value? (ie: 30-day SKIN + 60-day SKIN = 90-day SKIN) They will always extend the time, and if we have different timed ones you can mix and match.

Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2784	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:09:20 - [126] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: So will we be seeing any T2 or T3 SKINs eventually or will they be restricted to aT1 hulls only? It is possible and likely. I know we would love every ship in the game to have skins. We have some concerns with tech 2 ships, but will work those out. Thanks for the reply, I will wait patiently Something tells me we wont get to see the 12 T2 manufacturer patterns as SKINs. For instance will I ever get to see a CreoDron SKIN Proteus? Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
Buzz Dura Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 9	Posted - 2015.04.04 17:19:55 - [127] - Quote Don't want to read all pages but here some feedback : - Bug : change skin several time dureing a warp : the warp tunnel won't fade out when exiting warp until speed indicator goes back into m/s - feature : please add to the market option a filtering to skin already owned just like skills - feature : in the character sheet : add a tab where you can find the skin you "injected" Very nice feature, can't wait to see more skin for T1/T2/T3/faction ships and even contest design skin event. In a forseenable future, could we even think about shape shifting skin ? like a new gen cloaking effect that will reveal true ship class in fight ?
War Kitten Panda McLegion 5960	Posted - 2015.04.04 18:30:08 - [128] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: So on the temporary SKINs topic: There are two reason for the existence of these. First and foremost some skins can drop from NPCs as loot. See police pursuit comet. If we were to drop a permanent skin the value of that as loot goes down over time and eventually it becomes just a worthless drop. Hopefully that makes sense. The second reason is China. They have requested timed versions of all the SKINs so we are giving them that. As far as I am aware, we don't have any plans on selling timed version of the skins. Thats the two reasons for launch, but having timed skins gives us more options in the future as well. Maybe we can offer trials of skins so you can try before buy. Maybe we can also hand out timed versions at conventions like PAX, or give them to events such as EVE London or EVEsterdam to give away rather than giving away the permanent ones. Having time limited ones just gives us more options down the road, possibly options we have not thought of yet. However we built the new system because we wanted permanent ship skins, they are our focus. Hope that helps! :) Making the dropped skins time out after x days doesn't make them any less worthless. If it isn't permanent in any sense, who cares? You should've at least made dropped skins permanent for that ship, how EVERY ship skin should have been implemented, and the non-dropped ones sold at a minimal cost. I can't wait to see what these ~~$1000 jeans~~ permanent skin licenses are going to cost. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 115	Posted - 2015.04.04 18:38:10 - [129] - Quote I was hoping we weren't going to have to deal with stupid timed skins (ie World of Tank...)... but i guess this new gimmick will be an isk sink too... At least make a permanent option for EVERY skin. Also... how are super's going to be able to 'skin' up? Use an assembly ship array/other carrier? Make it remotely activated please...
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 617	Posted - 2015.04.04 18:44:30 - [130] - Quote Changing skins in space causes the client to flicker when you dock up again. And please, can we have more sex- errm Khanid Skins for Amarr ships? I know the Omen would look so cool in black or the Armageddon signature
Dave kazkade Conquering Darkness 10	Posted - 2015.04.04 19:38:44 - [131] - Quote Sorry if the question has been asked but how will the current skins copying over work, like if we have a skinned ship in our ship hanger it will be automatically turned into a license?
Noriko Mai 2131	Posted - 2015.04.04 22:32:31 - [132] - Quote Dave kazkade wrote: Sorry if the question has been asked but how will the current skins copying over work, like if we have a skinned ship in our ship hanger it will be automatically turned into a license? A skined ship will be converted to the base ship and a permanent license. "Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Lena Lazair Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion 445	Posted - 2015.04.05 02:08:38 - [133] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: The basis for most micro transactions is to keep them as micro transactions. Nobody will go out and buy a 30 dollar skin. Something like that. Can pick single options, or pick tons of skins. Meh... I would totally pay $30 for a permanent skin, provided it was awesome and for a ship I use. I've spent more than that for cosmetics in other games. I agree that not EVERY skin should be $30, but a wide range of prices/exclusivity is fine by me.
Tappits North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 88	Posted - 2015.04.05 02:36:06 - [134] - Quote Needs more for Caldari Caps (all of them)... That is all.
Arthur Aihaken Perkone Caldari State 4315	Posted - 2015.04.05 03:05:30 - [135] - Quote Is there a list (tentative or otherwise) of the initial skins that will be released with the next update? I seem to recall something along the lines of 120 or so skins at the FanFest announcement. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
oohthey ioh Republic University Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2015.04.05 10:23:34 - [136] - Quote If try to activate an skin that I already own it doesn't give it back.
oohthey ioh Republic University Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2015.04.05 10:43:53 - [137] - Quote You siad an list of what ships is getting the skin treatment in an dev blog soon. I have look though what skins you have on SISI and compared them to TQ skinned ships, is that a good reputation of what ship going be done, or are you still going though what ship are going to be trued to licences. I have brought most of the ship have an skin licence on SISI, just 13 remaining 8 of them being drops form sites (buying at an later date), one being 20 bill (not paying) and the last 4 i'm going be buying ASSP. unless you plan on turn to more skined shin to licences.
FistyMcBumBardier TURN LEFT The Camel Empire 105	Posted - 2015.04.05 14:52:54 - [138] - Quote Can we please do away with the concept of 30 day skins? They are in my opinion extremely limiting. I for one will not pay ISK for a SKIN that is on a timer.
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1623	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:06:08 - [139] - Quote Lena Lazair wrote: Phoenix Jones wrote: The basis for most micro transactions is to keep them as micro transactions. Nobody will go out and buy a 30 dollar skin. Something like that. Can pick single options, or pick tons of skins. Meh... I would totally pay $30 for a permanent skin, provided it was awesome and for a ship I use. I've spent more than that for cosmetics in other games. I agree that not EVERY skin should be $30, but a wide range of prices/exclusivity is fine by me. It is interesting to see the "outliers" who are willing to pay such large amounts of money for such things. It will be even more interesting to see if CCP decide that targeting such purchasers makes business sense. It didn't go down well before, and is unlikely to now. Hopefully marketing have either learned or have been replaced after all of this time. If CCP wish to have a decent income, and a satisfied customer base, considering the main income they have comes from regular, repeat subscribers and customers, they will be best served by pricing these items at a "trivial" cost point, where everyone basically buys them. We will see. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 58	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:07:35 - [140] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Jarnis McPieksu wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Tryaz wrote: What are the AUR prices of new skins? Not yet announced In other words, grossly overpriced. Out of curiosity... what would you define as overpriced? I will try to answer this question, comparing SKIN system to a cosmetic clothing system in LOTRO. In LOTRO you can buy cosmetic bundles that make you only look different, no stat changes. I will take full bundle of such items that can be used for multiple characters on your LOTRO account, and compare it in relation to SKIN system. Clothing items in LOTRO are indestructible and permanent, they can't be damaged and lost if you don't want it (you can always trash them), but they can't be traded, but TP can be acquired thru playing LOTRO, so its like ISK grinding!. EVE SKIN's could be lost, by a gank especially, and lost items are non tradable, what makes it in my eyes EVE-rough as for an item bought for real money. In this light, EVE SKIN would have disadvantage (overpriced) when priced more than clothing in LOTRO, because they can be lost even when you don't want it. Turbine Points are roughly 100 TP = 1 EUR for the smallest amount you can buy and you get 600 turbine points. Full bundle of clothing items is priced 1295 TP. That is roughly 13 EUR. 13 EUR for SKIN that can be equipped permenently on every ship in EVE For "store exclusives" cosmetic clothing in LOTRO you have to give 295 TP = 3 EUR, and they consist only of one slot item: hat, boots, hauberk, or something like that. "Only one ship of a kind EVE SKIN", 3 EUR for something like that would have to be.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 3967	Posted - 2015.04.05 15:24:54 - [141] - Quote FistyMcBumBardier wrote: Can we please do away with the concept of 30 day skins? They are in my opinion extremely limiting. I for one will not pay ISK for a SKIN that is on a timer. Just because they exist doesn't mean we will use them on TQ. Again, many of those timed ones exist for China, which is a different server with a completely different market. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Size Matters Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Lena Lazair Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion 446	Posted - 2015.04.05 16:08:16 - [142] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Hopefully marketing have either learned or have been replaced after all of this time. If CCP wish to have a decent income, and a satisfied customer base, considering the main income they have comes from regular, repeat subscribers and customers, they will be best served by pricing these items at a "trivial" cost point, where everyone basically buys them. We will see. What I hope they learned from monocle-gate are useful lessons, which is not the lesson that you are implying. The three big issues with monocle gate were 1) everything felt too expensive; the correct takeaway is NOT that nothing should be expensive, merely that a wide range of pricing/options should exist to fit all budgets (including all you poor people) 2) the cosmetics were targeted for a tiny, non-feature portion of the game no one really cares about, drawing focus away from actual spaceships 3) gold-ammo; obviously any hint of practical relevance was a huge issue, especially combined with pricing at the time... once again the correct takeaway is not that nothing should be expensive; on the contrary the more purely cosmetic the item the more expensive the upper price range can safely be...
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 1255	Posted - 2015.04.05 19:37:06 - [143] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: FistyMcBumBardier wrote: Can we please do away with the concept of 30 day skins? They are in my opinion extremely limiting. I for one will not pay ISK for a SKIN that is on a timer. Just because they exist doesn't mean we will use them on TQ. Again, many of those timed ones exist for China, which is a different server with a completely different market. I would avoid any type of temporarily leasing Option. We're buying a pixel not a automobile. Why China is setup that way... Dunno. It should not be for here though. People like the concept of ownership and that this is "theirs" vs "this is rented". Yaay!!!!
Joia Crenca Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 99	Posted - 2015.04.05 20:01:13 - [144] - Quote Phoenix Jones wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: FistyMcBumBardier wrote: Can we please do away with the concept of 30 day skins? They are in my opinion extremely limiting. I for one will not pay ISK for a SKIN that is on a timer. Just because they exist doesn't mean we will use them on TQ. Again, many of those timed ones exist for China, which is a different server with a completely different market. I would avoid any type of temporarily leasing Option. We're buying a pixel not a automobile. Why China is setup that way... Dunno. It should not be for here though. People like the concept of ownership and that this is "theirs" vs "this is rented". Very well put. Actually, Microsoft has gotten me worried with rumors of thinking of putting the Windows OS on a 'rent'/subscription base. I suppose they don't realize that suddenly cutting off your computer also cuts you off of much of civilization in the 21st century. (example: job postings, schedules for local events, entertainment such as EVE, etc) But one advantage to a 30-day timer for a skin, is if it's priced appropriately vs a permanent skin. The ship loss wouldn't be as painful if you'd paid isk-pennies for a 30-day vs isk-dollars for a lifetime.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 58	Posted - 2015.04.05 20:14:32 - [145] - Quote Well, I think, after a while of consideration, that skins with a 30 day expiration date should drop from the game rats, I am in against the idea of expiration skins bought for real moniez. Other games have permanent options. And even when these items are of lesser quality. SKIN of lesser quality could be a SKIN that can be placed only on one ship and then it would be gone when ship is repackaged or destroyed, like in this current system of ship skins.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3274	Posted - 2015.04.05 20:26:12 - [146] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: So on the temporary SKINs topic: There are two reason for the existence of these. First and foremost some skins can drop from NPCs as loot. See police pursuit comet. If we were to drop a permanent skin the value of that as loot goes down over time and eventually it becomes just a worthless drop. Hopefully that makes sense. There are ways to prevent that from happening. 1) Have a low drop rate of permanent skins. They still leave the game as players drop Eve, and there is always new demand as new players join. With a sufficiently low drop rate, they will stay valuable. 2) Have a way of combining several timed licenses into one permanent one. That way you can have a reasonable drop rate for those who like renting, but still cater to those who want to own. 3) Have both types drop Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction

CCP Terminus C C P C C P Alliance 194	Posted - 2015.04.05 21:09:38 - [147] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Lena Lazair wrote: Phoenix Jones wrote: The basis for most micro transactions is to keep them as micro transactions. Nobody will go out and buy a 30 dollar skin. Something like that. Can pick single options, or pick tons of skins. Meh... I would totally pay $30 for a permanent skin, provided it was awesome and for a ship I use. I've spent more than that for cosmetics in other games. I agree that not EVERY skin should be $30, but a wide range of prices/exclusivity is fine by me. It is interesting to see the "outliers" who are willing to pay such large amounts of money for such things. It will be even more interesting to see if CCP decide that targeting such purchasers makes business sense. It didn't go down well before, and is unlikely to now. Hopefully marketing have either learned or have been replaced after all of this time. If CCP wish to have a decent income, and a satisfied customer base, considering the main income they have comes from regular, repeat subscribers and customers, they will be best served by pricing these items at a "trivial" cost point, where everyone basically buys them. We will see. Like Lena Lazair pointed out previously, there were many reasons for monocle gate occuring, some of which being high price points on everything, the cosmetics targeted towards a non-gameplay portion of the game, and even the general anger at the Incarna expansion. We would like to avoid retreading that path, so we are working on a plan for the pricing system which can help avoid this. I would like to restate that every single SKIN will be available on the in-game market for ISK if a player is willing to sell it. We know some of our player base dislikes paying for anything beyond the subscription (or in some cases even the subscription) and that is a completely valid viewpoint to take, which is why we've made sure it is an option for players to get everything in the game through the market.

Edward Olmops DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax 299	Posted - 2015.04.05 21:15:16 - [148] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: So on the temporary SKINs topic: There are two reason for the existence of these. First and foremost some skins can drop from NPCs as loot. See police pursuit comet. If we were to drop a permanent skin the value of that as loot goes down over time and eventually it becomes just a worthless drop. Hopefully that makes sense. There are ways to prevent that from happening. 1) Have a low drop rate of permanent skins. They still leave the game as players drop Eve, and there is always new demand as new players join. With a sufficiently low drop rate, they will stay valuable. 2) Have a way of combining several timed licenses into one permanent one. That way you can have a reasonable drop rate for those who like renting, but still cater to those who want to own. 3) Have both types drop Sorry, but... no to 1) and 2). Think of the Besieged Facilities where these things currently drop... if you remove the drops from there (or make the drop rate 0,0000001%) then these sites become really worthless. And about combining multiple temporary licenses into a permanent one - that just reminds me of that time when I spent 40 hours of my life in Silithus to slaughter like 3000 stupid scorpions to collect their crappy blood. Actually one of the reasons why I sticked to this game in the last 5 years. Having both types.... well, that MIGHT work. There is a market for both BPCs and BPOs.
Edward Olmops DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax 300	Posted - 2015.04.05 21:37:28 - [149] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: It is interesting to see the "outliers" who are willing to pay such large amounts of money for such things. It will be even more interesting to see if CCP decide that targeting such purchasers makes business sense. It didn't go down well before, and is unlikely to now. Hopefully marketing have either learned or have been replaced after all of this time. If CCP wish to have a decent income, and a satisfied customer base, considering the main income they have comes from regular, repeat subscribers and customers, they will be best served by pricing these items at a "trivial" cost point, where everyone basically buys them. We will see. Well. Take me for instance. The monocle was bought from ISK, but I spent some money on merchandising items that included virtual items. We can now argue whether it does make a difference, because there were also physical items included, but that is not the point. I estimate I spent like $100 on purely virtual cosmetic skins in League of Legends so far (which is completely free if you want to). I think this is a good way to show support for the games you like AND it somewhat helps the problems a global subscription model faces when it comes to price points. Depending on your job and the country you live in, the 11-15 Gé¼/$ charged monthly can be ridiculously low or HUGE. I have spoken to EVE players who pay that from a monthly wage of equivalent Gé¼300. That's why I think it is good if people can to a certain degree decide themselves how much they want to pay. There needs to be some stuff for those people that is at the same time completely irrelevant to the gameplay of those who do NOT want to spend that much. (and even they can still get the stuff if they get spacerich) CCP Terminus wrote: Like Lena Lazair pointed out previously, there were many reasons for monocle gate occuring, some of which being high price points on everything, the cosmetics targeted towards a non-gameplay portion of the game, and even the general anger at the Incarna expansion. We would like to avoid retreading that path, so we are working on a plan for the pricing system which can help avoid this. I would like to restate that every single SKIN will be available on the in-game market for ISK if a player is willing to sell it. We know some of our player base dislikes paying for anything beyond the subscription (or in some cases even the subscription) and that is a completely valid viewpoint to take, which is why we've made sure it is an option for players to get everything in the game through the market. Monocle gate was completely ridiculous. And it happened despite all the items were available for ISK. People were just too busy raging to realize.
Dave Stark 7469	Posted - 2015.04.05 21:38:52 - [150] - Quote not sure if it has been mentioned but if you highlight multiple SKINs there's no option to activate all of them at once, you have to do it one at a time. kinda annoying when you're trying to test them but meh... would just be nice to be able to activate multiple SKINs at once.

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