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Darkartz
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: James Don
Originally by: Darkartz its a shame for me, i dont pirate or PvP that much thesedays, however i do like killing rats in certain systems that are "owned" by pirates.
i usually have some stabs fitted so that if they come for me i can get away, now ill have to go back in to empire and fly tier1 ships, cause frankly i am not loosing my ship to a dude who gets kicks out of ganking me from so far away the only way ill ever see him is thru a long range scanner :(
its a shame, its gonna drive folks like me back in to empire, because there are a bunch of people that start stuff with no intention of finishing it unless they can win.
/Theo
Or you could look at it this way, those pirates cant get away from you anymore, lure them into a belt with a few warp scrams and have some friends wait in the next system and you can get some payback.
I can partly see your argument but WCS have become widely abused and this change is only a good thing, there are too many ships stabed up to the hilt running round 0.0 that only engage haulers and the like and are near impossible to catch even with a huge gang and no 1 ship is ment to be that powerful, the balance has simply been redressed.
i dont really have a point to be hoenst i am sure its for the good of the game as a whole, but the bottom line is its bad for me...
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John Blackthorn
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.25 16:17:00 -
[32]
I have mixed feelings about the wcs change. I like the fact that snipers will no longer be able to place 3-4 wcs and be practily immune to being caught. Only way to catch them is warp an interdictor and bubble on them (if your in 0.0).
On the other hand, I don't like that smaller ships that I normally rely on tackling then warping out to return to the fight a few minutes later will be much harder to do. Problem is that just about everytime I'm in a fight ten of the guys buddies jump thorugh the gate to assist. I've engaged plenty of times solo against 2-3 enemy's. Only to have the gate light up with 10 people jumping in. I rely on wcs to just warp away after that. I don't mind fighting, I do mind being ganked by 10 players.
-John
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:07:00 -
[33]
What this means is that you will still needs 3-4 points on close range ships.
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Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:40:00 -
[34]
awesome what they did to stabs, kudos to ccp
to truly make them for travelers only i think they need to come in 2 point flavors also. or are they? |
xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Liru Okami Ok now correct me if i am wrong but isn't the point of a warp stabalizer to counter an enemy from jamming you?
With this proposed nerf fitting enough stabalizers to make shure you cant be scrabled makes you combat ineffective. Theres a need for combat in eve but theres plenty of it already. All I can see this doing is fracking the players that want to avoid PK style players.
The chances are that players useing scramblers have a clear advantage over their "prey" so keeping them there to fight just insures they get killed. Instead of eliminateing an "I win" button it's just changed hands.
Discuss
If all you want to do is "avoid PK style players" then it doesnt matter if fitting stabs makes you combat ineffective. You just fit travel gear and away you go.
I dont believe it was ever intended for WCS to be used in combat, either against players or NPCs. If you want to get upset about the nerf, blame the stabmonkeys like Ginger Magician who load up with WCS on their snipers, or 99% of vagabond pilots in game who use them to make the vaga a solopwnmobile thats almost invulnerable to any single other ship that it cant destroy easily.
This signature space for rent |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lireil Crow look dude, its girls like you who stab up and run from every fight they can't win, so you have to fight like a man now, and not like little girls.
Sorry this has to be one the best things.
Easy point, learn how to pvp for real.
Don't call this stab wh#re a girl. That insults girls ;) and no, I'm not female.
Because I said so...
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xenodia
Gallente RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Liru Okami Edited by: Liru Okami on 25/10/2006 13:59:34 Ok than what about blaster style ships. the up close and personal varity of players. If your ventureing into low security for a mission your still going to be equiped to fight but its fighting pirates, not players. (and doen even start the arguement they are compleatly different load outs and mods for a PVP and PVE ship)
Wouldent it make more sence to have a counterpoint to whe scrmbler and the stabalizer. Say if your useing or fitting one it's going to screw with the other. it's like having two diametricaly opposed fields going on in the same ship.
Stabalizers sacrafice lowslots, basicaly armor tanking, scramblers sacrafice mis slots aka shield tanking. where is the problem?
~edit~ Had another thought, what about caldari ships that can spam enough fof type missles to take on targets. Their lock on range is fixed to the weapon isn't it?
Why would you try to do a mission with warp core stabs on ? And even if you did, hows that in any way affected by the change ?Bottom line... if you want to venture into areas that are pvp zones (low sec or 0.0) you need to be prepared to fight (this means players as well as NPCs), or be prepared to run. You cant have it both ways anymore.
This signature space for rent |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:36:00 -
[38]
I see some serious drawback: 1) miners: i use a barge to mining in low sec both minerals and ice. And I equip warp stabilizers. If I don't do this and I am jumped by some ostile I block not only myself but even my corpmate running cover. Whit 1 point disrupter an enemy can effectively block 2 ships. (leave out the you shouldn't jumped, mining ice and leaving earlier mean full lost time with no success). Now, if I equip warp stabilizers the locking range change as follow: 0 stabilizer locking range 22km stipminers 15 km 1 stabilizer locking range 11km stipminers 15 km 2 stabilizers locking range 5.5 km stipminers 15 km
11 km is a bad range for mining as it mean I am in the asteroid field and I have a good chance of getting struck to an asteroid. at 5,5 km is almost guarantee that I will get struch in an asteroid. maneuver to pre align for the jump are almost impossible as it will take a lot of time and almost certanly put me out of range or to close, as i should chose a point where I don't have asteroid before me. If I am mining ice the problem is a little less noticeable as the simple ice kind are on the border of the ice field, but if I try for the rarer kind of ice, I will, again, be in the worst position for a rapid get away. currently, in calm systems with a station I can run single man mining with a barge and a load of drones to defend me from NPC ships. If the swarm is to poweful I can always jump away before losing too much armor, even with the slow acceleration of the barges. But if I must start in (and not on the margin) of an asteroid field, I will be way slower and have a larger chance of getting struck.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:41:00 -
[39]
2) people who want to move along some route but would fight if the enemy is a single pirate. Now it is impossible as even a silgle warp stabilizer slow drastically lock time. 3) Mission running, level 4 missions have enemyes with warp disrupter. With the combo of increased HP and so longer survivial of ships with disrupter, and the malus of warp stabilizers (mostly the 1/2 sensor range in this istance, but even the longer locking time matters), the mission become way harder
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Excremento
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:55:00 -
[40]
Correct me if Im wrong.
This is a Sniper nerf more than anything.
If you are fighting up close and personal, targeting range doesnt matter too much. You will just have to wait a little longer to target your enemy, but then you will get to leave anytime you want.
Its not as though, stabs have been rendered entirely useless in close-up fighting. If Im right about that, all of the "nerf" complaining is really blown out of proportion..
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:16:00 -
[41]
Kinda on topic, but do Blockade runners getting a matching nerf since they have +2 stabs naturally? Not that they are a combat ship or anything, j/w.
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Trancestor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:24:00 -
[42]
BEST CHANGE EVER
GOD BLESS CCP FOR THIS FEATURE ---------------------------------------------
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Slash Harnet Kinda on topic, but do Blockade runners getting a matching nerf since they have +2 stabs naturally?
I wondered the same thing, since I have a Crane I'm very fond of. I didn't expect a nerf, since they have the two points of warp stabilization inherent, and not as a result of the nerfed module.
Finally managed to get briefly logged into Sisi this morning, and looked at Crane in fitting window before crashing out again. It looked as if my targeting range was unaffected, so tentative asnwer is "no nerf".
I'd say the Blockade Runners are now a bit more valuable, but of course they still die like warm butter to a determined opponent, so no big deal.
BTW the Crane did recieve the expected 25% hit point bonus for a TechII ship.
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Scoundrelus
Unseen Jihad
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:29:00 -
[44]
ECM needed a nerf, frankly I still vote yes to have it completely removed from the game. No module that keeps a player from using any offensive module should be in the game. So tell me Liru, you are an anti-pirate who is against the ECM/Stab nerf, so let me ask you something. You complain of how helpless the victims of the pirates are now that they are forced to stay there and fight due to the stab nerf, yet you are all for ECM that makes someone even more helpless by not enabling them to fire back?
Frankly all you seem to me is just another person who wants his I-WIN buttons back and doesn't want to learn how to properly PvP. Go out and get into some real fights without stabs/ECM and we'll see what you're made of. =============================================== We are Watching You. |
Jones Maloy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:51:00 -
[45]
problem = pve got nuked --- WCS Nerf boycott low-sec |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:40:00 -
[46]
I personaly played eve because there were millions of possible ways to acomplish a task. hundreds of counters to every situation. you never know what someone else is going to be useing because there are that many options available. There is no "proper way to pvp" in eve theres many different types stop crying foul when someone finds a way to beat your method.
players make the choice do they want to have better sensor strength or warpdrive stabalizers or jammers. or ccap boosters ot a massive tank mod. they cant counter everything at the same time. removing options dosent help a game it just makes everyone more predictable. Eventualy the nerfing gets to the point where the system is so locked down that people will simply do the math and publish "ship x, mod y, skill z = best pvp ship available" you will eventyally have players say "oh i cant go into that .4 i dont have my kited out batleship yet to risk running a lv 2 mission.
ECM's are the stelth ship's best defence because they alow it to recloak before they get bombarded by 8 turrets and send a pod floating home. besides that cloaking is nearly broken to begin with. In "the holy name of ame ballence" they are not usefull for much any way. Dont want to get jammed? cary better scanners sounds fkin simple to me. there is no sence to make ecm designed ships the only ones that can use jammers effectively. Leave them alone to be fleet support ecm like they are now. (The scorpion is still the first thing that dies in a fleet battle any how.)
Basicaly your taking away the "dodge/attack denial" and "run away" features from alot of ships. avoiding damage is sometimes a better course of action than tring tto tank it.
Originally by: Scoundrelus ECM needed a nerf, frankly I still vote yes to have it completely removed from the game. No module that keeps a player from using any offensive module should be in the game. So tell me Liru, you are an anti-pirate who is against the ECM/Stab nerf, so let me ask you something. You complain of how helpless the victims of the pirates are now that they are forced to stay there and fight due to the stab nerf, yet you are all for ECM that makes someone even more helpless by not enabling them to fire back?
No, I have no desire to give up the method ive spent months training in because someone with a different combat style wwants to see if his ***** is bigger than my non existant one. You fight one way I fight another, Deal with it
Quote:
Frankly all you seem to me is just another person who wants his I-WIN buttons back and doesn't want to learn how to properly PvP. Go out and get into some real fights without stabs/ECM and we'll see what you're made of.
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dr34dp1r4t3r0b3rts
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Scoundrelus I 100% for the stab nerf (being a pirate and all) but I have a question. Now what will be the point of 2 point scramblers? I realize that hauling ships will have them fitted (not often though because they need room for cargo expanders) but those ships are so slow and so weak you usually don't even need a scrambler.
Hush. You'll ruin my market for -2 scramblers.
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Snikkt
Gallente Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Excremento Correct me if Im wrong.
This is a Sniper nerf more than anything.
If you are fighting up close and personal, targeting range doesnt matter too much. You will just have to wait a little longer to target your enemy, but then you will get to leave anytime you want.
Its not as though, stabs have been rendered entirely useless in close-up fighting. If Im right about that, all of the "nerf" complaining is really blown out of proportion..
It's a nerf to snipers, that killed everyone else who casually used stabs for low sec excursions.
It's using a 20 pound sledgehammer to kill a fly. -------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Snikkt
It's using a 20 pound sledgehammer to kill a fly.
Go Go Gadget Sledgehammer!
Best (and most stylish) nerf ever.
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: Slash Harnet Kinda on topic, but do Blockade runners getting a matching nerf since they have +2 stabs naturally?
I wondered the same thing, since I have a Crane I'm very fond of. I didn't expect a nerf, since they have the two points of warp stabilization inherent, and not as a result of the nerfed module.
Finally managed to get briefly logged into Sisi this morning, and looked at Crane in fitting window before crashing out again. It looked as if my targeting range was unaffected, so tentative asnwer is "no nerf".
I'd say the Blockade Runners are now a bit more valuable, but of course they still die like warm butter to a determined opponent, so no big deal.
BTW the Crane did recieve the expected 25% hit point bonus for a TechII ship.
Sweet, my prowler wouldn't like it either.
As for the nerf to stabs. It just means there will finally be a purpose for tech II stabs.
And yes, it should be anti-sniper so you can't hide in the corner. Though I'd rather see an HP reduction myself.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:13:00 -
[51]
So many angry exclamation marks...
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Aberash
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.25 22:21:00 -
[52]
Haha a Stab nerf whining topic, never thought id see that
Like the sig? PM me for personalised sig - 10mil each
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Darkartz its a shame for me, i dont pirate or PvP that much thesedays, however i do like killing rats in certain systems that are "owned" by pirates.
i usually have some stabs fitted so that if they come for me i can get away, now ill have to go back in to empire and fly tier1 ships, cause frankly i am not loosing my ship to a dude who gets kicks out of ganking me from so far away the only way ill ever see him is thru a long range scanner :(
its a shame, its gonna drive folks like me back in to empire, because there are a bunch of people that start stuff with no intention of finishing it unless they can win.
/Theo
To be honest this is a bigger nerf to that gate camper then you.
This is going to open low sec up a bit, as pirates are going to have to committ to the fight, rather then pick off noobs, and run when the heat is brought to them.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.25 23:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Liru Okami Ok now correct me if i am wrong but isn't the point of a warp stabalizer to counter an enemy from jamming you?
With this proposed nerf fitting enough stabalizers to make shure you cant be scrabled makes you combat ineffective. Theres a need for combat in eve but theres plenty of it already. All I can see this doing is fracking the players that want to avoid PK style players.
The chances are that players useing scramblers have a clear advantage over their "prey" so keeping them there to fight just insures they get killed. Instead of eliminateing an "I win" button it's just changed hands.
Discuss
nah just means ECM modules to counter jam them and it also nerfs the snipers encouraging more up close combat. hey u might find with inclose combat that the old ECM bursts will ebcome more useful esp as they have up to a 10km range it breaks all locks allowing u to warp out
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Rafaello Cruel
Gallente Rave Technologies Inc. Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.10.26 00:06:00 -
[55]
imho balance for wcs and scramblers was good... imho if nerfing wcs like that - do same thing to warp scramblers.. that will be fair there is one thing what i do not understand why nerfing wcs if we have more types od holding enemy om place ? - like interdictor spheres ?
imho wcs nerf is like chrismas gift for low sec pirates in 0.0 there is not too big problem with that - good team have interdictors or medium bubles... if is something good to do - unleash on market bpo for bubles and add big bubles at last ... that will incerase way to control 0.0 area
imo wcs nerfing is totaly not needed its a good for olt time blazed players - its a nerf for new folks in eve and for mid players... next bad type od side effect is you cant scram fast ship - he will get distance fast and run - web is not helping here too much - slow ships have not chance (look at diference betwen hac ships)
unleash big bubles
maybe some idea is for t2 mobile warp and web scrams ? :D
------------------------------------- best regards Rafaello Cruel
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D'Arkon Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:26:00 -
[56]
Don't nerf stabs, nerf scramblers. Bottom line. Everyone griping about getting more people into low sec just got their wish crushed.
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Scragg
Caldari Tyrell Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:53:00 -
[57]
It's the stabs are for sissy's nerf... I like it.
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Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.10.26 16:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: D'Arkon Skye Don't nerf stabs, nerf scramblers. Bottom line. Everyone griping about getting more people into low sec just got their wish crushed.
Although I get the idea this would have exactly the opposite effect, believe me.
Nerfing scramblers would make piracy even less dangerous than it is today.
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Condolesco
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.26 17:08:00 -
[59]
The only reason stabs got nerfed is because people used them to the point of ridicule. It's amusing how many people complain about the nerf. The whole idea about low sec is risk vs reward. Warpcore stabs nullified the risk by people fitting ridiculous amounts by just loading their lowslots. People can't do that anymore. If they use them now it requires them to fit another mod to negate the effect. Gatecamping snipers are now able to loose their ship without someone having to get tons of scramblers. By nerfing stabs they ultimately made it easier to take out gatecamps. They made the transport ships more appealing due to their built in stabs which do not have negative effects. And since belt piracy is now doable again many of the pirates will return to ransoms instead of straight killing. The risk is back in low sec as it should be.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 18:28:00 -
[60]
This thread delivers!
Sorry lads, seems like we're all out of whaaaambulances... ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
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