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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:44:00 -
[1]
Ok now correct me if i am wrong but isn't the point of a warp stabalizer to counter an enemy from jamming you?
With this proposed nerf fitting enough stabalizers to make shure you cant be scrabled makes you combat ineffective. Theres a need for combat in eve but theres plenty of it already. All I can see this doing is fracking the players that want to avoid PK style players.
The chances are that players useing scramblers have a clear advantage over their "prey" so keeping them there to fight just insures they get killed. Instead of eliminateing an "I win" button it's just changed hands.
Discuss
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 25/10/2006 13:47:56
Now WCS are only for people who are travelling, not for people who are fighting.
It means you actually have a chance to sneak up on that sniper and scramble him (because he can't snipe anymore with WCS fitted).
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Guurzak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:51:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
fitting enough stabalizers to make shure you cant be scrabled makes you combat ineffective
That's the whole point. If you want a fight, you need to commit to the fight. If you don't want a fight, go ahead and stab up.
Stabs are still fine for hauling and migrating; they're just not a part of a combat fitting. People who truly want to avoid combat altogether can still do that with stabs; people who want to hit and run without consequences cannot.
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Captain IceEye
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Captain IceEye on 25/10/2006 13:52:52
To the OP:
erm... u got it all wrong...
wcs nerf = targeting range and targeting speed reduced when wcs equipped
in other words - if you want to avoid battle, you dont need targeting range and targeting speed - so no nerf there.
Get it??
Its all good, u see. 
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Liru Okami on 25/10/2006 13:59:34
Ok than what about blaster style ships. the up close and personal varity of players.
If your ventureing into low security for a mission your still going to be equiped to fight but its fighting pirates, not players.
(and doen even start the arguement they are compleatly different load outs and mods for a PVP and PVE ship)
Wouldent it make more sence to have a counterpoint to whe scrmbler and the stabalizer. Say if your useing or fitting one it's going to screw with the other. it's like having two diametricaly opposed fields going on in the same ship.
Stabalizers sacrafice lowslots, basicaly armor tanking, scramblers sacrafice mis slots aka shield tanking. where is the problem?
~edit~
Had another thought, what about caldari ships that can spam enough fof type missles to take on targets. Their lock on range is fixed to the weapon isn't it?
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EvilNate
Caldari
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 13:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Ok than what about blaster style ships. the up close and personal varity of players.
If your ventureing into low security for a mission your still going to be equiped to fight but its fighting pirates, not players.
(and doen even start the arguement they are compleatly different load outs and mods for a PVP and PVE ship)
Wouldent it make more sence to have a counterpoint to whe scrmbler and the stabalizer. Say if your useing or fitting one it's going to screw with the other. it's like having two diametricaly opposed fields going on in the same ship.
Stabalizers sacrafice lowslots, basicaly armor tanking, scramblers sacrafice mis slots aka shield tanking. where is the problem?
Risk vs reward. Its about time you learnt to take care of yourself. If you are going ratting in low sec or mission running, be careful. Don't be near warp in points, so if someone comes in, you can warp out quick.
Also, if you are doing "close range" fitting, then you just have to deal with a longer lock time. Not really that big a deal in PVE.
Nate.
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Lireil Crow
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:00:00 -
[7]
look dude, its girls like you who stab up and run from every fight they can't win, so you have to fight like a man now, and not like little girls.
Sorry this has to be one the best things.
Easy point, learn how to pvp for real.
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Scoundrelus
Unseen Jihad
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:02:00 -
[8]
I 100% for the stab nerf (being a pirate and all) but I have a question. Now what will be the point of 2 point scramblers? I realize that hauling ships will have them fitted (not often though because they need room for cargo expanders) but those ships are so slow and so weak you usually don't even need a scrambler.
===============================================
We are Watching You. |
Captain IceEye
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Captain IceEye on 25/10/2006 14:03:46
Originally by: Liru Okami
Ok than what about blaster style ships. the up close and personal varity of players.
If your ventureing into low security for a mission your still going to be equiped to fight but its fighting pirates, not players.
(and doen even start the arguement they are compleatly different load outs and mods for a PVP and PVE ship)
Wouldent it make more sence to have a counterpoint to whe scrmbler and the stabalizer. Say if your useing or fitting one it's going to screw with the other. it's like having two diametricaly opposed fields going on in the same ship.
Stabalizers sacrafice lowslots, basicaly armor tanking, scramblers sacrafice mis slots aka shield tanking. where is the problem?
NPC rats are weak usually. Why do you need targeting range and targeting speed to fight low sec belt NPC prats - in a blaster boat?
Even with wcs equipped you will be able to target them, just targeting will take a bit longer. I do not see any problem there.
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:06:00 -
[10]
Yes i do hunt pirates. and in the most obnoxious way i have found to kill them is to sit around a "campout" cloaked waiting for them to get into a good fight. after the victor (98% of the time it' s the camper) wins i simply uncloak and hit him with shots streight to the structure one maybe two vollys and boom theres a helpless pod left for me to kill. and a screaming infuriated PK on the other side.
This is my mission in EvE to bring utter and pure misery at opertunity to PK players. The only people i see the nerf helping is them.
Originally by: Lireil Crow
look dude, its girls like you who stab up and run from every fight they can't win, so you have to fight like a man now, and not like little girls.
Sorry this has to be one the best things.
Easy point, learn how to pvp for real.
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Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
I 100% for the stab nerf (being a pirate and all) but I have a question. Now what will be the point of 2 point scramblers? I realize that hauling ships will have them fitted (not often though because they need room for cargo expanders) but those ships are so slow and so weak you usually don't even need a scrambler.
Cap usage mainly. 2 point scrams take way less cap/sec to run than 1 point scrambs, so it's a good option for frigs and such which need the cap for other mods.
Max
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:09:00 -
[12]
Quote:
All I can see this doing is fracking the players that want to avoid PK style players.
All I can see this doing is 'fracking' exactly those PK style players that stabbed up their Vagas and Ravens to be impervious to biting off more than they can chew. Now the people trying to gank you actually have to risk being 'PKed' in return...
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:13:00 -
[13]
Ive watched my share of fights the majority of the rats i see never "bite off more than they can chew" the person laing the trap always has the clear advantage, they know theres a trap there. perhapse the new system scanning mods propsed will change alot of this. but makeing things more complicated for simple tasks like...
"I just got a lv 2 mission but i need to go into low sec space... what do you meen i need 8 days of training and 3million isk to avoid getting podded before my UI loads?"
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
All I can see this doing is 'fracking' exactly those PK style players that stabbed up their Vagas and Ravens to be impervious to biting off more than they can chew. Now the people trying to gank you actually have to risk being 'PKed' in return...
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Captain IceEye
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:13:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Captain IceEye on 25/10/2006 14:17:19
Originally by: Liru Okami
Yes i do hunt pirates. and in the most obnoxious way i have found to kill them is to sit around a "campout" cloaked waiting for them to get into a good fight. after the victor (98% of the time it' s the camper) wins i simply uncloak and hit him with shots streight to the structure one maybe two vollys and boom theres a helpless pod left for me to kill. and a screaming infuriated PK on the other side.
This is my mission in EvE to bring utter and pure misery at opertunity to PK players. The only people i see the nerf helping is them.
In that case what about an alpha-strike boat? Keep WCS on, fit mods to counter targeting speed penalty, fit close range high damage guns. This way you should be able to run the same strategy you used to.
Edit: Do not forget, you will most likely need less scramblers to keep em in place, since they probably wont have wcs on. These free slots can be used for sensor boosters on your side for example.
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:16:00 -
[15]
That might work but i spent months of training on my Nemasis alone to do what it does now. starting over with new setups to tweek just meens more money wasted on "failed atempts. Have you seen the prices on cloaking devices now days?
Originally by: Captain IceEye
In that case what about an alpha-strike boat? Keep WCS on, fit mods to counter targeting speed penalty, fit close range high damage guns. This way you should be able to run the same strategy you used to.
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Frater Perdurabo
The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Frater Perdurabo on 25/10/2006 14:18:18
Originally by: Liru Okami
The only people i see the nerf helping is them.
Its a nerf to everyone that uses wcs, pirates (please dont use the term 'pk') and missionrunners and miners and well, everybody that used to fit em - I dont think it helps the large quantities of pirates that go round with lots of wcs fitted so if they do get in combat they cant handle they can run away does it now? (and yes i see a lot of people like this about)
EDIT - read the above, that seems like more a tactics issue, if there tactic is better than yours then adapt.
Ps, dont you just ******* hate it that people are using the word 'frack' in real life, it ****es me the **** off i can tell you :P
-----------------------------------
Please note that my response to this thread is probably a result of boredom, and its very likely that i dont care, but am posting in an attempt to wind someone up |
Captain IceEye
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:22:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Captain IceEye on 25/10/2006 14:25:16
Originally by: Liru Okami
That might work but i spent months of training on my Nemasis alone to do what it does now. starting over with new setups to tweek just meens more money wasted on "failed atempts. Have you seen the prices on cloaking devices now days?
Originally by: Captain IceEye
In that case what about an alpha-strike boat? Keep WCS on, fit mods to counter targeting speed penalty, fit close range high damage guns. This way you should be able to run the same strategy you used to.
Well, then keep the same number of wcs on as you have now, replace a second scrambler that you have most likely fitted with a sensor booster. This way trying out if your strategy still works means not risking any more then you used to.
Edit: Actually you might even risk less with the wcs changes, because the targets most likely have less scramblers fitted as well.
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:25:00 -
[18]
It happens, some people fit both so they can tackle and still warp if they see someone tring to tackle back (like a scout preceeding a larger fleet)
as for the PK label i use it to refer to players who do just that. no ryme reason or purpose for engaugeing a ship other than to kill someone (megathrons and apoc taking out 2 month old destroyers and such). A "pirate" is someone off a compleatly different cloth. Real pirates ask for ransom, or cargo or demand taxes for entering their space. PK's kill without question or cause.
PS: the frack thing slips thru the word filter and gets the point across. ^^ would you prefer Frell?
Originally by: Frater Perdurabo
Its a nerf to everyone that uses wcs, pirates (please dont use the term 'pk') and missionrunners and miners and well, everybody that used to fit em - I dont think it helps the large quantities of pirates that go round with lots of wcs fitted so if they do get in combat they cant handle they can run away does it now?
Ps, dont you just ******* hate it that people are using the word 'frack' in real life, it ****es me the **** off i can tell you :P
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:28:00 -
[19]
Hmm god point, however i use burst ecm's to kick off targeting locks then cloak imedately when things go terribly wrong. It may be a t2 frigate but danm that thing is brittle w/o alot of tanks
Originally by: Captain IceEye
]In that case what about an alpha-strike boat? Keep WCS on, fit mods to counter targeting speed penalty, fit close range high damage guns. This way you should be able to run the same strategy you used to.
Well, then keep the same number of wcs on as you have now, replace a second scrambler that you have most likely fitted with a sensor booster. This way trying out if your strategy still works means not risking any more then you used to.
Edit: Actually you might even risk less with the wcs changes, because the targets most likely have less scramblers fitted as well.
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Andrachim Tar'nar
The first genesis
Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Max Teranous
Originally by: Scoundrelus
I 100% for the stab nerf (being a pirate and all) but I have a question. Now what will be the point of 2 point scramblers? I realize that hauling ships will have them fitted (not often though because they need room for cargo expanders) but those ships are so slow and so weak you usually don't even need a scrambler.
Cap usage mainly. 2 point scrams take way less cap/sec to run than 1 point scrambs, so it's a good option for frigs and such which need the cap for other mods.
Yeah, and to get stabbed up haulers/travelers and stuff ;)
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Captain IceEye
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Hmm god point, however i use burst ecm's to kick off targeting locks then cloak imedately when things go terribly wrong. It may be a t2 frigate but danm that thing is brittle w/o alot of tanks
Originally by: Captain IceEye
]In that case what about an alpha-strike boat? Keep WCS on, fit mods to counter targeting speed penalty, fit close range high damage guns. This way you should be able to run the same strategy you used to.
Well, then keep the same number of wcs on as you have now, replace a second scrambler that you have most likely fitted with a sensor booster. This way trying out if your strategy still works means not risking any more then you used to.
Edit: Actually you might even risk less with the wcs changes, because the targets most likely have less scramblers fitted as well.
You use burst ECMs? To be honest, then there might be a change in Kali which realy effects you... ECMs have been nerfed in case you didnt know. And this will hurt your strategy much more then the wcs changes.
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:36:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Liru Okami on 25/10/2006 14:41:39
Oh christ what are they doing to ecm's now? I gotta go read the dev blog on this one.
yeash when ccp swings the nerf bat they use the Big one.
~edit~
So from what i gather only dedicated ecm warships will be any use at jamming or kicking off a lock. Just great, now the stealth bomber is becoming more useless by the second. I still dont understand why the act of cloaking is prohibited by someone having a lock (or more ubsuedly tring to lock)
So a ship designed to make "hit and run" attacke is now just kinda "hit and stay there a while"
Originally by: Captain IceEye
You use burst ECMs? To be honest, then there might be a change in Kali which realy effects you... ECMs have been nerfed in case you didnt know. And this will hurt your strategy much more then the wcs changes.
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Frater Perdurabo
The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria
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Posted - 2006.10.25 14:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Liru Okami
It happens, some people fit both so they can tackle and still warp if they see someone tring to tackle back (like a scout preceeding a larger fleet)
as for the PK label i use it to refer to players who do just that. no ryme reason or purpose for engaugeing a ship other than to kill someone (megathrons and apoc taking out 2 month old destroyers and such). A "pirate" is someone off a compleatly different cloth. Real pirates ask for ransom, or cargo or demand taxes for entering their space. PK's kill without question or cause.
PS: the frack thing slips thru the word filter and gets the point across. ^^ would you prefer Frell?
If your a scout you'd be in a ceptor, i dont really find it hard running away without wcs in a ceptor, thats why there so damn fast; and anyway your tackling them, why shouldnt they tackle you?
Too many people started to fit wcs as a must have mod to ensure they can never die but can kill people themselves, hardly fair really that is it? If you have no intention of being in combat, fine, fit em still. If people do wanna shoot stuff they better come up with some decent tactics to ensure they dont die, as opposed to the 'i cant lose' of wcs.
Maybe a fair point about people that feel the need to pwn 2week old newbs in blatently crap ships with no good mods on, trouble is you'd be suprised how often the alleged newb turns out to be an alt from a 3yr old player transporting implants etc, it really does happen. (tho maybe not the ones in asteroid belts granted)
Finally i'd just use the word ****. As you might have noticed if you quote a post it shows what they actually wrote instead of the ****** business anyway.
-----------------------------------
Please note that my response to this thread is probably a result of boredom, and its very likely that i dont care, but am posting in an attempt to wind someone up |
Darkartz
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:06:00 -
[24]
its a shame for me, i dont pirate or PvP that much thesedays, however i do like killing rats in certain systems that are "owned" by pirates.
i usually have some stabs fitted so that if they come for me i can get away, now ill have to go back in to empire and fly tier1 ships, cause frankly i am not loosing my ship to a dude who gets kicks out of ganking me from so far away the only way ill ever see him is thru a long range scanner :(
its a shame, its gonna drive folks like me back in to empire, because there are a bunch of people that start stuff with no intention of finishing it unless they can win.
/Theo
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James Don
Gallente
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Darkartz
its a shame for me, i dont pirate or PvP that much thesedays, however i do like killing rats in certain systems that are "owned" by pirates.
i usually have some stabs fitted so that if they come for me i can get away, now ill have to go back in to empire and fly tier1 ships, cause frankly i am not loosing my ship to a dude who gets kicks out of ganking me from so far away the only way ill ever see him is thru a long range scanner :(
its a shame, its gonna drive folks like me back in to empire, because there are a bunch of people that start stuff with no intention of finishing it unless they can win.
/Theo
Or you could look at it this way, those pirates cant get away from you anymore, lure them into a belt with a few warp scrams and have some friends wait in the next system and you can get some payback.
I can partly see your argument but WCS have become widely abused and this change is only a good thing, there are too many ships stabed up to the hilt running round 0.0 that only engage haulers and the like and are near impossible to catch even with a huge gang and no 1 ship is ment to be that powerful, the balance has simply been redressed.
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notify : Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of the nearby Snowballs. |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:19:00 -
[26]
I find that one little exploit leads to another, if the player cant run away with impunity they will do a "pull the plug" warp which as far as i can tell is imune to scrambleing. Expect a slew of posts about that once the nerf hits.
When a tiny little frigate starts jamming a cruiser or BC or even a battleship it meens something's up or could be just mind games and psycological warfare. maybe that little assault frigate has something up it's sleave and that can panic some campers into running. the ones that actually get into a long fight and get some serious dammage taken are the ones i go after. 
After all ive never been on the reciving end of a fair fight, why give a pirate the luxuary of one even remotely in their favor. Maybe i am just imbittered by a "bad eve childhood" but between scammers and PK style tatics i descided "enough is enough" after my first 6 months and started planning.
for now i have to figure a way to refit my bomber to get ariund the ECM nerf somehow. Seriously the regular nerfings remind me of UO back in the old days
Originally by: Frater Perdurabo
If your a scout you'd be in a ceptor, i dont really find it hard running away without wcs in a ceptor, thats why there so damn fast; and anyway your tackling them, why shouldnt they tackle you?
Too many people started to fit wcs as a must have mod to ensure they can never die but can kill people themselves, hardly fair really that is it? If you have no intention of being in combat, fine, fit em still. If people do wanna shoot stuff they better come up with some decent tactics to ensure they dont die, as opposed to the 'i cant lose' of wcs.
Maybe a fair point about people that feel the need to pwn 2week old newbs in blatently crap ships with no good mods on, trouble is you'd be suprised how often the alleged newb turns out to be an alt from a 3yr old player transporting implants etc, it really does happen. (tho maybe not the ones in asteroid belts granted)
Finally i'd just use the word ****. As you might have noticed if you quote a post it shows what they actually wrote instead of the ****** business anyway.
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Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Edited by: Estel Arador on 25/10/2006 13:47:56
Now WCS are only for people who are travelling, not for people who are fighting.
It means you actually have a chance to sneak up on that sniper and scramble him (because he can't snipe anymore with WCS fitted).
/signed
No more annoying "suprise pvp'ers" you can't scram when they attack you and did only see you fly a frig but a) not which one and b) you are much older then them.
I like the new wcs nerf, will make Eve a much safer place.
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:32:00 -
[28]
I belive you grossly underestimate the mind of the griefer, "Have PVP will grief" is the motto. i dont see how making it harder to get away makes eve any safer.
Originally by: Queen Hades
No more annoying "suprise pvp'ers" you can't scram when they attack you and did only see you fly a frig but a) not which one and b) you are much older then them.
I like the new wcs nerf, will make Eve a much safer place.
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Captain IceEye
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Captain IceEye on 25/10/2006 15:33:25
Originally by: Liru Okami
Edited by: Liru Okami on 25/10/2006 14:41:39
Oh christ what are they doing to ecm's now? I gotta go read the dev blog on this one.
yeash when ccp swings the nerf bat they use the Big one.
~edit~
So from what i gather only dedicated ecm warships will be any use at jamming or kicking off a lock. Just great, now the stealth bomber is becoming more useless by the second. I still dont understand why the act of cloaking is prohibited by someone having a lock (or more ubsuedly tring to lock)
So a ship designed to make "hit and run" attacke is now just kinda "hit and stay there a while"
Originally by: Captain IceEye
You use burst ECMs? To be honest, then there might be a change in Kali which realy effects you... ECMs have been nerfed in case you didnt know. And this will hurt your strategy much more then the wcs changes.
Liru, this is a bit off topic, but the stealth bombers never got much love from CCP. Which is a pity, especially in case of the nemesis and its cool looks.
Anyways most of the bigger patches CCP has released included major changes. At first sight they might or might not look 'bad', but in general CCP know quite while what they are doing - and they will rebalance in case a change realy went totaly wrong. Changes always need adjusting on our (the players) part, but that is a little price to pay for a generally constantly improving game.
I personally like both, the ECM and the WCS changes. But I understand that especially the ECM changes will hit you hard. So time to develop a new strategy - maybe an ecm ship with an improved cloak? Anyways take the changes as a challenge, like a general does if the weather unexpectatly changes or new weapons are developed.
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:39:00 -
[30]
Right now the bomber uses the improved cloaking device 2 not the prototype one. the "covert ops" cloak can only fit on the little helios one.
Sadly I cant fit a cloaking device to anything but a covert ops or recon ship (more months of training away) and expect to have effective ECM's but we will see what happens. till then back to the drawing board.
but getting back to the WCS topic i just dont see the "problem players" going away so easily. they read the same development blogs the rest of the playerbase does. so theres probly a plan to counter that too.
Originally by: Captain IceEye
Liru, this is a bit off topic, but the stealth bombers never got much love from CCP. Which is a pity, especially in case of the nemesis and its cool looks.
Anyways most of the bigger patches CCP has released included major changes. At first sight they might or might not look 'bad', but in general CCP know quite while what they are doing - and they will rebalance in case a change realy went totaly wrong. Changes always need adjusting on our (the players) part, but that is a little price to pay for a generally constantly improving game.
I personally like both, the ECM and the WCS changes. But I understand that especially the ECM changes will hit you hard. So time to develop a new strategy - maybe an ecm ship with an improved cloak? Anyways take the changes as a challenge, like a general does if the weather unexpectatly changes or new weapons are developed.
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Darkartz
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Posted - 2006.10.25 15:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: James Don
Originally by: Darkartz
its a shame for me, i dont pirate or PvP that much thesedays, however i do like killing rats in certain systems that are "owned" by pirates.
i usually have some stabs fitted so that if they come for me i can get away, now ill have to go back in to empire and fly tier1 ships, cause frankly i am not loosing my ship to a dude who gets kicks out of ganking me from so far away the only way ill ever see him is thru a long range scanner :(
its a shame, its gonna drive folks like me back in to empire, because there are a bunch of people that start stuff with no intention of finishing it unless they can win.
/Theo
Or you could look at it this way, those pirates cant get away from you anymore, lure them into a belt with a few warp scrams and have some friends wait in the next system and you can get some payback.
I can partly see your argument but WCS have become widely abused and this change is only a good thing, there are too many ships stabed up to the hilt running round 0.0 that only engage haulers and the like and are near impossible to catch even with a huge gang and no 1 ship is ment to be that powerful, the balance has simply been redressed.
i dont really have a point to be hoenst i am sure its for the good of the game as a whole, but the bottom line is its bad for me...
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John Blackthorn
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.10.25 16:17:00 -
[32]
I have mixed feelings about the wcs change. I like the fact that snipers will no longer be able to place 3-4 wcs and be practily immune to being caught. Only way to catch them is warp an interdictor and bubble on them (if your in 0.0).
On the other hand, I don't like that smaller ships that I normally rely on tackling then warping out to return to the fight a few minutes later will be much harder to do. Problem is that just about everytime I'm in a fight ten of the guys buddies jump thorugh the gate to assist. I've engaged plenty of times solo against 2-3 enemy's. Only to have the gate light up with 10 people jumping in. I rely on wcs to just warp away after that. I don't mind fighting, I do mind being ganked by 10 players.
-John
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.10.25 17:07:00 -
[33]
What this means is that you will still needs 3-4 points on close range ships.
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Red Ochre
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 17:40:00 -
[34]
awesome what they did to stabs, kudos to ccp
to truly make them for travelers only i think they need to come in 2 point flavors also. or are they? |
xenodia
Gallente
RONA Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 17:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Ok now correct me if i am wrong but isn't the point of a warp stabalizer to counter an enemy from jamming you?
With this proposed nerf fitting enough stabalizers to make shure you cant be scrabled makes you combat ineffective. Theres a need for combat in eve but theres plenty of it already. All I can see this doing is fracking the players that want to avoid PK style players.
The chances are that players useing scramblers have a clear advantage over their "prey" so keeping them there to fight just insures they get killed. Instead of eliminateing an "I win" button it's just changed hands.
Discuss
If all you want to do is "avoid PK style players" then it doesnt matter if fitting stabs makes you combat ineffective. You just fit travel gear and away you go.
I dont believe it was ever intended for WCS to be used in combat, either against players or NPCs. If you want to get upset about the nerf, blame the stabmonkeys like Ginger Magician who load up with WCS on their snipers, or 99% of vagabond pilots in game who use them to make the vaga a solopwnmobile thats almost invulnerable to any single other ship that it cant destroy easily.
This signature space for rent |
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 17:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lireil Crow
look dude, its girls like you who stab up and run from every fight they can't win, so you have to fight like a man now, and not like little girls.
Sorry this has to be one the best things.
Easy point, learn how to pvp for real.
Don't call this stab wh#re a girl. That insults girls ;) and no, I'm not female.
Because I said so...
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xenodia
Gallente
RONA Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 18:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Edited by: Liru Okami on 25/10/2006 13:59:34
Ok than what about blaster style ships. the up close and personal varity of players.
If your ventureing into low security for a mission your still going to be equiped to fight but its fighting pirates, not players.
(and doen even start the arguement they are compleatly different load outs and mods for a PVP and PVE ship)
Wouldent it make more sence to have a counterpoint to whe scrmbler and the stabalizer. Say if your useing or fitting one it's going to screw with the other. it's like having two diametricaly opposed fields going on in the same ship.
Stabalizers sacrafice lowslots, basicaly armor tanking, scramblers sacrafice mis slots aka shield tanking. where is the problem?
~edit~
Had another thought, what about caldari ships that can spam enough fof type missles to take on targets. Their lock on range is fixed to the weapon isn't it?
Why would you try to do a mission with warp core stabs on ? And even if you did, hows that in any way affected by the change ?Bottom line... if you want to venture into areas that are pvp zones (low sec or 0.0) you need to be prepared to fight (this means players as well as NPCs), or be prepared to run. You cant have it both ways anymore.
This signature space for rent |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 18:36:00 -
[38]
I see some serious drawback:
1) miners: i use a barge to mining in low sec both minerals and ice. And I equip warp stabilizers. If I don't do this and I am jumped by some ostile I block not only myself but even my corpmate running cover. Whit 1 point disrupter an enemy can effectively block 2 ships. (leave out the you shouldn't jumped, mining ice and leaving earlier mean full lost time with no success). Now, if I equip warp stabilizers the locking range change as follow:
0 stabilizer locking range 22km stipminers 15 km
1 stabilizer locking range 11km stipminers 15 km
2 stabilizers locking range 5.5 km stipminers 15 km
11 km is a bad range for mining as it mean I am in the asteroid field and I have a good chance of getting struck to an asteroid.
at 5,5 km is almost guarantee that I will get struch in an asteroid.
maneuver to pre align for the jump are almost impossible as it will take a lot of time and almost certanly put me out of range or to close, as i should chose a point where I don't have asteroid before me.
If I am mining ice the problem is a little less noticeable as the simple ice kind are on the border of the ice field, but if I try for the rarer kind of ice, I will, again, be in the worst position for a rapid get away.
currently, in calm systems with a station I can run single man mining with a barge and a load of drones to defend me from NPC ships. If the swarm is to poweful I can always jump away before losing too much armor, even with the slow acceleration of the barges.
But if I must start in (and not on the margin) of an asteroid field, I will be way slower and have a larger chance of getting struck.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 18:41:00 -
[39]
2) people who want to move along some route but would fight if the enemy is a single pirate. Now it is impossible as even a silgle warp stabilizer slow drastically lock time.
3) Mission running, level 4 missions have enemyes with warp disrupter. With the combo of increased HP and so longer survivial of ships with disrupter, and the malus of warp stabilizers (mostly the 1/2 sensor range in this istance, but even the longer locking time matters), the mission become way harder
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Excremento
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Posted - 2006.10.25 18:55:00 -
[40]
Correct me if Im wrong.
This is a Sniper nerf more than anything.
If you are fighting up close and personal, targeting range doesnt matter too much. You will just have to wait a little longer to target your enemy, but then you will get to leave anytime you want.
Its not as though, stabs have been rendered entirely useless in close-up fighting. If Im right about that, all of the "nerf" complaining is really blown out of proportion..
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar
Industrial Services INC
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:16:00 -
[41]
Kinda on topic, but do Blockade runners getting a matching nerf since they have +2 stabs naturally? Not that they are a combat ship or anything, j/w.
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Trancestor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:24:00 -
[42]
BEST CHANGE EVER
GOD BLESS CCP FOR THIS FEATURE
---------------------------------------------
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.25 19:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Slash Harnet
Kinda on topic, but do Blockade runners getting a matching nerf since they have +2 stabs naturally?
I wondered the same thing, since I have a Crane I'm very fond of. I didn't expect a nerf, since they have the two points of warp stabilization inherent, and not as a result of the nerfed module.
Finally managed to get briefly logged into Sisi this morning, and looked at Crane in fitting window before crashing out again. It looked as if my targeting range was unaffected, so tentative asnwer is "no nerf".
I'd say the Blockade Runners are now a bit more valuable, but of course they still die like warm butter to a determined opponent, so no big deal.
BTW the Crane did recieve the expected 25% hit point bonus for a TechII ship.
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Scoundrelus
Unseen Jihad
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Posted - 2006.10.25 20:29:00 -
[44]
ECM needed a nerf, frankly I still vote yes to have it completely removed from the game. No module that keeps a player from using any offensive module should be in the game. So tell me Liru, you are an anti-pirate who is against the ECM/Stab nerf, so let me ask you something. You complain of how helpless the victims of the pirates are now that they are forced to stay there and fight due to the stab nerf, yet you are all for ECM that makes someone even more helpless by not enabling them to fire back?
Frankly all you seem to me is just another person who wants his I-WIN buttons back and doesn't want to learn how to properly PvP. Go out and get into some real fights without stabs/ECM and we'll see what you're made of.
===============================================
We are Watching You. |
Jones Maloy
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 20:51:00 -
[45]
problem = pve got nuked
---
WCS Nerf boycott low-sec |
Liru Okami
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 21:40:00 -
[46]
I personaly played eve because there were millions of possible ways to acomplish a task. hundreds of counters to every situation. you never know what someone else is going to be useing because there are that many options available. There is no "proper way to pvp" in eve theres many different types stop crying foul when someone finds a way to beat your method.
players make the choice do they want to have better sensor strength or warpdrive stabalizers or jammers. or ccap boosters ot a massive tank mod. they cant counter everything at the same time. removing options dosent help a game it just makes everyone more predictable. Eventualy the nerfing gets to the point where the system is so locked down that people will simply do the math and publish "ship x, mod y, skill z = best pvp ship available" you will eventyally have players say "oh i cant go into that .4 i dont have my kited out batleship yet to risk running a lv 2 mission.
ECM's are the stelth ship's best defence because they alow it to recloak before they get bombarded by 8 turrets and send a pod floating home. besides that cloaking is nearly broken to begin with. In "the holy name of ame ballence" they are not usefull for much any way. Dont want to get jammed? cary better scanners sounds fkin simple to me. there is no sence to make ecm designed ships the only ones that can use jammers effectively. Leave them alone to be fleet support ecm like they are now. (The scorpion is still the first thing that dies in a fleet battle any how.)
Basicaly your taking away the "dodge/attack denial" and "run away" features from alot of ships. avoiding damage is sometimes a better course of action than tring tto tank it.
Originally by: Scoundrelus
ECM needed a nerf, frankly I still vote yes to have it completely removed from the game. No module that keeps a player from using any offensive module should be in the game. So tell me Liru, you are an anti-pirate who is against the ECM/Stab nerf, so let me ask you something. You complain of how helpless the victims of the pirates are now that they are forced to stay there and fight due to the stab nerf, yet you are all for ECM that makes someone even more helpless by not enabling them to fire back?
No, I have no desire to give up the method ive spent months training in because someone with a different combat style wwants to see if his ***** is bigger than my non existant one. You fight one way I fight another, Deal with it
Quote:
Frankly all you seem to me is just another person who wants his I-WIN buttons back and doesn't want to learn how to properly PvP. Go out and get into some real fights without stabs/ECM and we'll see what you're made of.
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dr34dp1r4t3r0b3rts
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
I 100% for the stab nerf (being a pirate and all) but I have a question. Now what will be the point of 2 point scramblers? I realize that hauling ships will have them fitted (not often though because they need room for cargo expanders) but those ships are so slow and so weak you usually don't even need a scrambler.
Hush. You'll ruin my market for -2 scramblers.
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Snikkt
Gallente
Time Cube Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 21:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Excremento
Correct me if Im wrong.
This is a Sniper nerf more than anything.
If you are fighting up close and personal, targeting range doesnt matter too much. You will just have to wait a little longer to target your enemy, but then you will get to leave anytime you want.
Its not as though, stabs have been rendered entirely useless in close-up fighting. If Im right about that, all of the "nerf" complaining is really blown out of proportion..
It's a nerf to snipers, that killed everyone else who casually used stabs for low sec excursions.
It's using a 20 pound sledgehammer to kill a fly.
-------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.25 21:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Snikkt
It's using a 20 pound sledgehammer to kill a fly.
Go Go Gadget Sledgehammer!
Best (and most stylish) nerf ever.
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Slash Harnet
Minmatar
Industrial Services INC
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 22:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: Slash Harnet
Kinda on topic, but do Blockade runners getting a matching nerf since they have +2 stabs naturally?
I wondered the same thing, since I have a Crane I'm very fond of. I didn't expect a nerf, since they have the two points of warp stabilization inherent, and not as a result of the nerfed module.
Finally managed to get briefly logged into Sisi this morning, and looked at Crane in fitting window before crashing out again. It looked as if my targeting range was unaffected, so tentative asnwer is "no nerf".
I'd say the Blockade Runners are now a bit more valuable, but of course they still die like warm butter to a determined opponent, so no big deal.
BTW the Crane did recieve the expected 25% hit point bonus for a TechII ship.
Sweet, my prowler wouldn't like it either.
As for the nerf to stabs. It just means there will finally be a purpose for tech II stabs.
And yes, it should be anti-sniper so you can't hide in the corner. Though I'd rather see an HP reduction myself.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 22:13:00 -
[51]
So many angry exclamation marks...
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Aberash
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 22:21:00 -
[52]
Haha a Stab nerf whining topic, never thought id see that
Like the sig? PM me for personalised sig - 10mil each
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Serapis Aote
TBC
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 23:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Darkartz
its a shame for me, i dont pirate or PvP that much thesedays, however i do like killing rats in certain systems that are "owned" by pirates.
i usually have some stabs fitted so that if they come for me i can get away, now ill have to go back in to empire and fly tier1 ships, cause frankly i am not loosing my ship to a dude who gets kicks out of ganking me from so far away the only way ill ever see him is thru a long range scanner :(
its a shame, its gonna drive folks like me back in to empire, because there are a bunch of people that start stuff with no intention of finishing it unless they can win.
/Theo
To be honest this is a bigger nerf to that gate camper then you.
This is going to open low sec up a bit, as pirates are going to have to committ to the fight, rather then pick off noobs, and run when the heat is brought to them.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
EUROPEANS
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 23:22:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Ok now correct me if i am wrong but isn't the point of a warp stabalizer to counter an enemy from jamming you?
With this proposed nerf fitting enough stabalizers to make shure you cant be scrabled makes you combat ineffective. Theres a need for combat in eve but theres plenty of it already. All I can see this doing is fracking the players that want to avoid PK style players.
The chances are that players useing scramblers have a clear advantage over their "prey" so keeping them there to fight just insures they get killed. Instead of eliminateing an "I win" button it's just changed hands.
Discuss
nah just means ECM modules to counter jam them and it also nerfs the snipers encouraging more up close combat. hey u might find with inclose combat that the old ECM bursts will ebcome more useful esp as they have up to a 10km range it breaks all locks allowing u to warp out
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Rafaello Cruel
Gallente
Rave Technologies Inc.
Miners With Attitude
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 00:06:00 -
[55]
imho balance for wcs and scramblers was good...
imho if nerfing wcs like that - do same thing to warp scramblers..
that will be fair
there is one thing what i do not understand
why nerfing wcs if we have more types od holding enemy om place ? - like interdictor spheres ?
imho wcs nerf is like chrismas gift for low sec pirates
in 0.0 there is not too big problem with that - good team have interdictors or medium bubles...
if is something good to do - unleash on market bpo for bubles and add big bubles at last ...
that will incerase way to control 0.0 area
imo wcs nerfing is totaly not needed
its a good for olt time blazed players - its a nerf for new folks in eve and for mid players...
next bad type od side effect is you cant scram fast ship - he will get distance fast and run - web is not helping here too much - slow ships have not chance (look at diference betwen hac ships)
unleash big bubles
maybe some idea is for t2 mobile warp and web scrams ? :D
-------------------------------------
best regards
Rafaello Cruel
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D'Arkon Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 16:26:00 -
[56]
Don't nerf stabs, nerf scramblers. Bottom line. Everyone griping about getting more people into low sec just got their wish crushed.
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Scragg
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 16:53:00 -
[57]
It's the stabs are for sissy's nerf... I like it.
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Queen Hades
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 16:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: D'Arkon Skye
Don't nerf stabs, nerf scramblers. Bottom line. Everyone griping about getting more people into low sec just got their wish crushed.
Although I get the idea this would have exactly the opposite effect, believe me.
Nerfing scramblers would make piracy even less dangerous than it is today.
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Condolesco
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.26 17:08:00 -
[59]
The only reason stabs got nerfed is because people used them to the point of ridicule.
It's amusing how many people complain about the nerf.
The whole idea about low sec is risk vs reward. Warpcore stabs nullified the risk by people fitting ridiculous amounts by just loading their lowslots. People can't do that anymore. If they use them now it requires them to fit another mod to negate the effect. Gatecamping snipers are now able to loose their ship without someone having to get tons of scramblers.
By nerfing stabs they ultimately made it easier to take out gatecamps. They made the transport ships more appealing due to their built in stabs which do not have negative effects. And since belt piracy is now doable again many of the pirates will return to ransoms instead of straight killing.
The risk is back in low sec as it should be.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 18:28:00 -
[60]
This thread delivers! 
Sorry lads, seems like we're all out of whaaaambulances...
----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Rafaello Cruel
Gallente
Rave Technologies Inc.
Miners With Attitude
|
Posted - 2006.10.30 20:12:00 -
[61]
imho is really needed for do balance do same 'bonus' to warp scramblers as wcs have now :D
and im not jocking !
-------------------------------------
best regards
Rafaello Cruel
|
xenodia
Gallente
RONA Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.30 23:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Rafaello Cruel
imho is really needed for do balance do same 'bonus' to warp scramblers as wcs have now :D
and im not jocking !
Go hug an asteroid. You will feel better. At least for a month or so.
This signature space for rent |
Rafaello Cruel
Gallente
Rave Technologies Inc.
Miners With Attitude
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:08:00 -
[63]
lol
open your mind - leave that box and look around you
wcs is needed imho not nerfed - specialy for younger chars..
people want make fun - even if they login for 1-2 hours per day
im against actual form of wcs working too...
but im against solution in that way
we have bubles - wcs not working
we have dictor spheres - wcs not working for that too
so - i belive its bad to nerfing wcs - i belive better is fing solutions for bad behavior :D - like get on market bpo to med and small bubles, put big bubles too - pushing to loterry t2 bpo with bubles - let t2 bubles be a mic of warp scrambling device and webing device :D
-------------------------------------
best regards
Rafaello Cruel
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:13:00 -
[64]
The up coming WSC nerf is one of the greatest nerfs ever. I like it alot.
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Rafaello Cruel
Gallente
Rave Technologies Inc.
Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.10.31 15:16:00 -
[65]
some people like it - some people don't
-------------------------------------
best regards
Rafaello Cruel
|
Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:19:00 -
[66]
All bad ass ppl like it
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Earthan
Gallente
GREY COUNCIL
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:27:00 -
[67]
Some good ass warriors like it to:)
-
A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer.
Grey Council webpage
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Polinus
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:28:00 -
[68]
The nerf is good.. for veterans. Foor noobs that want to rat in <.5.. its a nightmare. A player witha 1 month old character that want to fight somehting different from frigates and rogue drones... must go to .4 or below to rat. But nw its plain impossible... you will be jumped by far more powerfull pirates, so no chance on fighting back. And all the be carefull tatics that give you slight chance to run aqay.. will make impossible kill rat cruisers and bigger on effective time.
So this nerf will Screw with noob players and will just enhances the lack of people out of empire.
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Rafaello Cruel
Gallente
Rave Technologies Inc.
Miners With Attitude
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:38:00 -
[69]
its a matter of understanding all community - not only interest for one side
eve is not only pvp game - that's first point
not every pilot must have same tactics...
lets pilots to be creative - not only boring f1, f2, f3 ...
use some tactics...
im killing too as pvp pilot
its a rare times in my 2 years gaming when i used wcs...
mostly on industrial ships - but was rare ocasions on pvp ships too - for reason
mostly im greeding too much for cpu/slot to use wcs - mean i dlike more heat sinks/magnetic stabs /more armour - wcs is sometimes good for deep solo hunts - when you dealing with big gang alone...
wcs is a tactics and using wcs is not lame...
true is - many people using wcs on lame way...
like wcs ravens with t2 launchers and ammo :/
like wcs bs snipers...
it is not easy matter how to solve that
but imho nerfing wcs is a bad way to bring "balance" - imho is unbalancing more...
good example - many people take limited risc on doing low sec missions... they have 1-2 hours to make it
they compromise lower tank on mission to not loosing ship on way to mission...
risk is doubled... - they can loose ship on mission (lowered tank), and if they unlucky - they will be stoped on good camp - with 2-3 interceptors...
now - using wcs will be nonsense.. and playing in low sec will be for them nonsense too
let them play as they like it
i like more 0.0 life..
empire suxx :D there is unfair power (concord) imho ;)
so.. for me personally that nerf is really unresonable
-------------------------------------
best regards
Rafaello Cruel
|
Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:40:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Polinus
...wwwhhhhaaambbbbuuuulllaaaannnncccceee...
i was 3 days old when i started living in lowsec so what you say is mostly nonsense. unless you claim that you are dumber than me, im sure you will manage.
Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution! |
Magunus
The Forsakened Few
The ARR0W Project
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Polinus
The nerf is good.. for veterans. Foor noobs that want to rat in <.5.. its a nightmare. A player witha 1 month old character that want to fight somehting different from frigates and rogue drones... must go to .4 or below to rat. But nw its plain impossible... you will be jumped by far more powerfull pirates, so no chance on fighting back. And all the be carefull tatics that give you slight chance to run aqay.. will make impossible kill rat cruisers and bigger on effective time.
So this nerf will Screw with noob players and will just enhances the lack of people out of empire.
Lost me there... what's the vet's advantage here?
---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Rafaello Cruel
Gallente
Rave Technologies Inc.
Miners With Attitude
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:45:00 -
[72]
omg - its sure...
firepower...
-------------------------------------
best regards
Rafaello Cruel
|
Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 15:50:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Rafaello Cruel
its a matter of understanding all community - not only interest for one side
eve is not only pvp game - that's first point
not every pilot must have same tactics...
lets pilots to be creative - not only boring f1, f2, f3 ...
use some tactics...
im killing too as pvp pilot
its a rare times in my 2 years gaming when i used wcs...
mostly on industrial ships - but was rare ocasions on pvp ships too - for reason
mostly im greeding too much for cpu/slot to use wcs - mean i dlike more heat sinks/magnetic stabs /more armour - wcs is sometimes good for deep solo hunts - when you dealing with big gang alone...
wcs is a tactics and using wcs is not lame...
true is - many people using wcs on lame way...
like wcs ravens with t2 launchers and ammo :/
like wcs bs snipers...
it is not easy matter how to solve that
but imho nerfing wcs is a bad way to bring "balance" - imho is unbalancing more...
good example - many people take limited risc on doing low sec missions... they have 1-2 hours to make it
they compromise lower tank on mission to not loosing ship on way to mission...
risk is doubled... - they can loose ship on mission (lowered tank), and if they unlucky - they will be stoped on good camp - with 2-3 interceptors...
now - using wcs will be nonsense.. and playing in low sec will be for them nonsense too
let them play as they like it
i like more 0.0 life..
empire suxx :D there is unfair power (concord) imho ;)
so.. for me personally that nerf is really unresonable
Hey now we are TALKING. Everyone should dot like this when they try to prove their point. I still like the nerf tho.
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Kailiao
The Black Fleet
Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.10.31 17:51:00 -
[74]
When i heard they where nerfing WCS, i packed up the kids and wife, and headed out to the most expensive resterant to celebrate. 
Thank god for this nerf, i mean wcs on a (combat ship) it's like lasers on a caldari ship, completly rediculas.
I couldn't tell you how many times i have lost kill-mails, and respect for players, who fight me, and wimp out at half hull, and warp away.
If you fly a COMBAT ship, either for ratting in low sec, or solo pvp, or small gangs, learn to fit your ship, get some skill, and have the balls and the isk, to put forward an epic fight, where you either come out victorious, or in a pod.
Leave the wcs, for the hauler's and mineing barge's where they belong.
Much love to ccp, for this nerf, and the ecm nerf, witch i woun't get into.
And for the record, I would rather lose hundreds of millions of isk, worth of teck 2 and faction mods, that stick a wcs on my ship. NUff said!!
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starship enginer
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Posted - 2006.10.31 23:42:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Liru Okami
Ok now correct me if i am wrong but isn't the point of a warp stabalizer to counter an enemy from jamming you?
yes and they still do stop enermy from jamming you
you fit one stab, enermy cant hold you down with one 20m,
whats the problem?
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Sokor Jei
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Posted - 2006.11.01 00:18:00 -
[76]
People are completely missing the point of this nerf. You have all these agent runners saying "ccp is going to hurt their pve players and aren't thinking about that". Yes they are, they know that. What you forget is its not your RIGHT to be able to go into low sec and pve to your hearts content. There is risk involved, if you dont like it, dont go to low sec. Its how the game was designed to be.
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Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2006.11.01 01:59:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Sokor Jei
People are completely missing the point of this nerf. You have all these agent runners saying "ccp is going to hurt their pve players and aren't thinking about that". Yes they are, they know that. What you forget is its not your RIGHT to be able to go into low sec and pve to your hearts content. There is risk involved, if you dont like it, dont go to low sec. Its how the game was designed to be.
So you say: IT IS MY RIGHT TO KILL THE PvE EASILY ?
Risk vs. reards: 3 ships waiting at 1 gate to gank 1 single ship: Risk of destruction 0.
The only "risk" is not killing the target and so losing the loot and killmail.
Risk for the PvE: losing the ship/pod to gatecamp, losing the ship to the mission, losing the ship/pod returning from the mission.
The risk for the gatecamper are only other PvP, but most of them have safespots in system as it is the system where they usually hunt, and with all the gung ho, most of them will run if a large force warp in.
So Risk for the PvE, Rewards for the PvP is all you want.
Be honest at least.
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FFGR
Maza Nostra
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.01 04:05:00 -
[78]
Edited by: FFGR on 01/11/2006 04:05:11
Originally by: Polinus
The nerf is good.. for veterans. Foor noobs that want to rat in <.5.. its a nightmare. A player witha 1 month old character that want to fight somehting different from frigates and rogue drones... must go to .4 or below to rat. But nw its plain impossible... you will be jumped by far more powerfull pirates, so no chance on fighting back. And all the be carefull tatics that give you slight chance to run aqay.. will make impossible kill rat cruisers and bigger on effective time.
So this nerf will Screw with noob players and will just enhances the lack of people out of empire.
Then from the first week that I started playing I must have been a veteran ...
I haven't fitted WCS yet on any of my combat ships in lowsec or 0.0 warfare, I must be GOD then to have survived so many years out there.
Watch local, watch scanner, have friends and be friends with the locals.
_____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.11.01 04:13:00 -
[79]
I'd like to klnow what fantasy land 0.0 you live in. Really that is the exception not the rule.
Originally by: FFGR
Then from the first week that I started playing I must have been a veteran ...
I haven't fitted WCS yet on any of my combat ships in lowsec or 0.0 warfare, I must be GOD then to have survived so many years out there.
Watch local, watch scanner, have friends and be friends with the locals.
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Derelekt
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Posted - 2006.11.01 05:30:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Derelekt on 01/11/2006 05:31:38
The problem with this is that new players are going to be even more disadvantaged. New players should be able to rat (PvE) in low sec. and have *some* chance of getting away from pirates (who generally have been playing MUCH longer).
Don't talk to me about skills - please. "Skill" is based *mostly* on how long you've been playing Eve, not on your actual, real-life, skill.
This is a buff to PK/Pirates, period - and a NERF to everybody else that wants to have FUN with this GAME.
Not only does a WCS only have one point (and a scrambler 2), NOW the WCS gets nerfed even further.
Finally, the last ability for a non-pirate to get out was to hopefully JAM the pirate using ECM - which is ALSO getting a NERF.
Did you say you wanted more peeps in low sec or not? Do you HONESTLY believe non-pirates are going to say "OH BOY!!! Now I have *no* chance to get away from PKers/Pirates in Low sec!!! - I'm gonna go to LOW SEC right away so I can get instant pwnzorized!!! w00t"
As for addressing the sniper problem - do it a different way. Give us MORE options in our loadouts rather than fewer (by nerfing warp jamming and ECM).
Bottom line: This is a gift to Pirates only. Nobody else benefits except maybe anti-pirate veterans who have the 'skills' (ie. been playing for 2+ years) to actually give the pirates a good fight.
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Sir Bart
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Posted - 2006.11.01 09:42:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Liru Okami
I belive you grossly underestimate the mind of the griefer, "Have PVP will grief" is the motto. i dont see how making it harder to get away makes eve any safer.
Well, I am a pirate. I have long wanted to get rid of WCS. I hate them. That said... I'm also a greifer. I mean, I used to hate greifers. As a pirate, I killed other pirates just because I thought I was the purist while they were just some greifer hack, funny thing is... I noticed the pirates that I went after where much more likely to have WCS than belt ratters that I normally ransomed. Then I got t2 ammo and tried out sniping. Not only was it fun to just shoot everyone, but I made some money from ships you wouldn't expect. I made the most money ever from an Osprey. Anyways, I used WCS in my sniper setup. Now since I can't use WCS, it takes less to scare me. There is no sniper that can survive a recon that gets close to them. So now, if you enter space in a recon, the sniper needs to have a new plan of escaping the recon from just uncloaking on them and killing their ship (which is worth about 100 mill in mods for a megathron).
Lots of pirates use a domi. Nos-ECM-tank. That is a very tough ship but if they wanted kills without losing their ship at all.... nos-ecm-WCS can get lots of kills while almost never dying.
I think a ship with a sensor booster can get away with a WCS but now it'll cost them 1 mid and 1 low to use their cowardly I-can-attack-you-but-if-I'm-losing-I'll-just-run strategy.
Lay traps. Kill those*****y greifers. I know I will.
-Bart
PS. Don't try to trap me, I have secret skills that will cost you if you try!
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xHomicide
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Posted - 2006.11.01 22:58:00 -
[82]
WCS should be buffed...not nerfed. Each t1 WCS should provide 2 points each. WCS t2 should provide 7 points each.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:06:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 02/11/2006 09:12:19
Originally by: FFGR
Then from the first week that I started playing I must have been a veteran ...
I haven't fitted WCS yet on any of my combat ships in lowsec or 0.0 warfare, I must be GOD then to have survived so many years out there.
Watch local, watch scanner, have friends and be friends with the locals.
You see my dear, the key word here is YEARS. When you have first moved to 0.0 there were what? 30.000 players in all EVE? and how much of them in low sec/0.0? So going in low sec for you was primary a problem of NPC, with most of the ostile players at your level of experience and probably of equipment.
For those that have started later low sec/0.0 is mostrly owned by players like you, with years of experience, so with wastly larger skills and better equipment.
Along the routes I use to move in low security I meet systems with 30 people in them, and the ones empty are the exception, not the rule.
So you aren't god, but you had the chance to enter in low sec and grow in it. We should enter and swim or drown immediatly.
This nerf narrow our choices on how to survive.
Doing mining ops in low sec with barges - deleted unless you own the system - warp stabilizers reduces too much your locking range;
Doing combat mission in low sec - deleted - no warp stabilizer as they kill your PvE set up, and a ship fitted for PvE has a disavantage against one fitted for PvP
Complex runnning - delete, as above, unless you own the system
This is a move on the route:
- all players must enter the large alliances
- low sec/0.0 is only for PvPer.
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Kai DeathCutter
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Posted - 2006.11.02 12:10:00 -
[84]
I like the change, I daresay though, there is scope for adjusting some ships to compensate, without scrapping the whole deal. I mean, would it be a major balancing issue to double the locking range of a barge for instance?
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Hydraxian
Gallente
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.11.02 14:58:00 -
[85]
Personally im really happy with the changes, ive NEVER used a WCS on a combat based ship for anything but traveling. I use them on indys all the time, but why would you need to lock on to anything in a indy lol
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Zaurgon
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:47:00 -
[86]
Grow up, whiners. Get a pair and start learning how to really pvp. That is what all of these changes are for, to force those of you who are using the crutch of WCS and mass ECM to do your work for you. Now you might actually have to get your hands dirty, so you cry. Wahhh. Wahhh. Get over it. Those who can't adapt go extinct.
I have no sig. Just don't make me use my pimp hand.
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Kailiao
The Black Fleet
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.02 15:58:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Derelekt
Edited by: Derelekt on 01/11/2006 05:31:38
The problem with this is that new players are going to be even more disadvantaged. New players should be able to rat (PvE) in low sec. and have *some* chance of getting away from pirates (who generally have been playing MUCH longer).
So what you saying is that NEW players, should have no disadvantages, and be able to do what they want, with-out any risk? Sounds like a boreing game to me. And my first 6 months playing this game, i made lots of isk in high-sec, mineing and doing mishions, more than enough to progress. If a new player wants to go into low-sec, for whatever reason,they should relize, the element of risk involved for better isk, and loot.
Don't talk to me about skills - please. "Skill" is based *mostly* on how long you've been playing Eve, not on your actual, real-life, skill.
Skill is based mostly on information, research, trial and error, and RL hand eye cordination, and quick thinking.
Oh and explain then why 3 month old players, are on SOLO killmails killing 3+ year players??? This is one game (thankgod) where players regardless of playing time, are mostly on equal playing grounds. Tho don't get me wrong experience and 30m skill points helps alout, but the veteran player put in the time and effert to get to that point, don't gimp him, with a ***** abilty to be able to warp away, while scrambled.
This is a buff to PK/Pirates, period - and a NERF to everybody else that wants to have FUN with this GAME.
Oh yea i forgot the basis of FUN in this game totaly revolves around a single mod? So what your saying is that everyone that relies on wcs, will quit, becouse they are getting nerfed? AGAIN practise ship fittings, get out there, and learn from your mistakes, and have some balls, stop being spoon fed by yea mama, and take a risk, that's what makes this GAME fun. If i could go out and not worry about getting killed, becouse i have a (omg cry baby anti-pie) mod on, then this game would get boreing very fast. The (rush) many people talk about, is what seperates this game from many, Knowing you could lose alout of time, and effert geting said ship and mods, in pvp, is priceless.
Not only does a WCS only have one point (and a scrambler 2), NOW the WCS gets nerfed even further.
7500m scram's have 2 points, 20k ones only have one, and won't get into how much harder it is to get into 2 point scram range, with out a cepter, or mwd frig, where %75 of warp-ins start from 15km, and that is more than enough time for the victem to escape.
Finally, the last ability for a non-pirate to get out was to hopefully JAM the pirate using ECM - which is ALSO getting a NERF.
I have no problem with ecm, being used as a deffensive mod, to get away, or be used for combat, that's a mod, that accually, has a chance of missing, and has to be activated, and used with some sort of skill, tho small, to be effective.
Did you say you wanted more peeps in low sec or not? Do you HONESTLY believe non-pirates are going to say "OH BOY!!! Now I have *no* chance to get away from PKers/Pirates in Low sec!!! - I'm gonna go to LOW SEC right away so I can get instant pwnzorized!!! w00t"
As for addressing the sniper problem - do it a different way. Give us MORE options in our loadouts rather than fewer (by nerfing warp jamming and ECM).
Bottom line: This is a gift to Pirates only. Nobody else benefits except maybe anti-pirate veterans who have the 'skills' (ie. been playing for 2+ years) to actually give the pirates a good fight.
Just blob,with 60+ ships, at a GATE, or STATION, and talk smack in local about how uber stabs are, you know (The Anti-Pirate) way.
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Kailiao
The Black Fleet
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.03 03:53:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Derelekt
As for addressing the sniper problem - do it a different way. Give us MORE options in
our loadouts rather than fewer (by nerfing warp jamming and ECM).
Bottom line: This is a gift to Pirates only. Nobody else benefits except maybe anti-pirate
veterans who have the 'skills' (ie. been playing for 2+ years) to actually give the pirates
a good fight.
Just blob,with 60+ ships, at a GATE, or STATION, and talk smack in local about how
uber stabs are, you know (The Anti-Pirate) way. By the way I like little boys. So hot...
yummy...
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Liru Okami
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Posted - 2006.11.03 05:26:00 -
[89]
One of these days I would love to compare the security status list to the IGE recipt book. People who throw money away (ingame and out) normally have little respect for other peoples things.
I am not insinuating anything by this but Pirates and PVPers keep saing experiment and test and fight. the problem is that costs alot of money. And they had the luxury of being able to run away durring their groth period. this goes back to the "rules of the PK" thing.
Min-Maxing. Maximum dammage for minamum cost/effort. If you "live" in a placce that spawns high isk value items and minarals than you obviously have a easier time replacing lost and destroyed goods than someone that may have to spend a week "sucking rocks" to afford the same exact thing.
Saing this nerf effects everyone is just flat out stupid. It effects people who had the commen sence to train and use a countermeasure. Maybe it was too commen but ya know what so is warp scrambeling.
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