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James Draekn
X.E.N.O.
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Posted - 2006.10.26 22:41:00 -
[121]
Everyone also has to realize that unless this ship is within 10km or less of its enemy, only the drones will be doing the damage. All the math that I have seen so far have are with electron/ion/neutron blasters. Someone try doing the DPS calculations with railguns (dual 150mm, 200mm, 250mm). Then complain that this ship is overpowered. Gallente ships have to get IN range for the rest of their weapons (blasters) to start doing damage, and heavy drones at max skills only go 937m/s. SO when the turret/missile ship opens up at 20km and starts shooting, the myr has to close the gap down to 5-8km depending on ammo, and its drones have to do the same. By the time the myr actually opens up it SHOULD have higher DPS to compensate for the time it takes to get in range, not a ungodly ammount higher, just a bit to make up for the lost time during the begining of the engagement.
The only reason people don't want the Myr to get 5 heavies is that they are afraid of the NOS/ECM Domi. Well they can relax, since NOS and ECM are being balanced, finally. Drone ships have advantages and disadvantages, but you really have to ask yourself if sending 5-10 million worth of isk at somebody is worth the reward. Since other races don't have to risk their isk being targeted in a fight, other then their ship.
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Matyae
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:18:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Matyae on 26/10/2006 23:18:34
Originally by: keepiru Which btw means ~600 with assaults, since they do about 50% more dps :)
Oh. 50% more dps ? Could you show me how you got this number please ? To me it seems much more like 25%. :)
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LaCoHa
Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:23:00 -
[123]
Edited by: LaCoHa on 26/10/2006 23:23:20 I am on test server right now - and i think i have found a nice setup. Albeit a bit weird.
Hi: 4 x 150mm II. one Med Nos.
mids: 2 x cap booster web, web, scram (the 5th slot on this ship is damn near useless imo, please move it to a 6th low)
lows: 2 x mar II, 2 x Eanm II, 1600mm tungsten.
fn thing is HARD to break.
"I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge." |
keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Matyae Edited by: Matyae on 26/10/2006 23:18:34
Originally by: keepiru Which btw means ~600 with assaults, since they do about 50% more dps :)
Oh. 50% more dps ? Could you show me how you got this number please ? To me it seems much more like 25%. :)
Heavy missile, base 125hp damage, Heavy launcher II base rof 12sec. Heavy assault is 100 damage, 6.4rof.
Which gets you 125/12=10.426* base t2 launcher dps for heavies, and 100/6.4=15.625 base t2 launcher dps for heavy assaults. ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Matyae
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:39:00 -
[125]
Heavy missiles = 150 damage, not 125.
Heavy : 150dmg/12s = 12.5dps Heavy assault : 100dmg/6.4s = 15.625dps
15.625/12.5 = 1.25 = 25%
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:45:00 -
[126]
Originally by: LaCoHa Edited by: LaCoHa on 26/10/2006 23:23:20 I am on test server right now - and i think i have found a nice setup. Albeit a bit weird.
Hi: 4 x 150mm II. one Med Nos.
mids: 2 x cap booster web, web, scram (the 5th slot on this ship is damn near useless imo, please move it to a 6th low)
lows: 2 x mar II, 2 x Eanm II, 1600mm tungsten.
fn thing is HARD to break.
How the f#ck do you move around with no AB/MWD and a 1600 plate installed? I put a 1600 tungsten on and **WITH** an afterburner did 170m/sec. How are you even going to get a target in web range to keep it from getting away? Are you planning on having a cov ops for a warp in point at 5km every time?
And with the dual 150s and antimatter, GL getting over 8km of range out of them. What happens when all your drones are dead? Making the enemy take 10 minutes to kill you != victory.
Because I said so...
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.26 23:56:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Matyae Heavy missiles = 150 damage, not 125.
Heavy : 150dmg/12s = 12.5dps Heavy assault : 100dmg/6.4s = 15.625dps
15.625/12.5 = 1.25 = 25%
Huh, don't ask me how I managed to look up heavy missiles twice while on SISI and get 125 both times. *shrug* ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
LaCoHa
Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:00:00 -
[128]
Originally by: murder one
How the f#ck do you move around with no AB/MWD and a 1600 plate installed? I put a 1600 tungsten on and **WITH** an afterburner did 170m/sec. How are you even going to get a target in web range to keep it from getting away? Are you planning on having a cov ops for a warp in point at 5km every time?
And with the dual 150s and antimatter, GL getting over 8km of range out of them. What happens when all your drones are dead? Making the enemy take 10 minutes to kill you != victory.
yeah yeah. the drone bay issue will be solved. And i have modified it to use 3 MARII's, and no plate. +cap battery.
when is the last time you warped into a belt to kill some dude, and were not at 10k or less already?
you are either on top of him - and its go time, or he is 50k out, and you both just warp away.
"I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge." |
Felix Kani
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:21:00 -
[129]
Expand the drone bay to 120m3 and through a specific module bonus and a stiff stacking penalty to requirements, allow it to fit ONE Drone Control Unit. Now you can have 4 heavy drones + two spares or 6 medium drones, with a full rack of spares. It has all those extra high slots going begging.
Someone said its suppose to be a drone boat, right?
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Matyae
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:33:00 -
[130]
Originally by: keepiru Huh, don't ask me how I managed to look up heavy missiles twice while on SISI and get 125 both times. *shrug*
Ammo stats are broken on SiSi anyway :/ em/kin javelin torps got nerfed but not heat/exp ones, etc.
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Irimi Nage
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.27 00:36:00 -
[131]
I don't know if it's been said before in this thread, but it will be said again by me.
The problem is not the dronebay size so much, it's that drone HP haven't been scaled up with ship HP.
Why is this a problem? Well, currently on tranq, killing drones isn't that common (unless you have a smartbomb), the reason why it's not common is that by the time you've killed _both_ sets of drones from a drone-boat, you're dead. Now that your HP have doubled, this is no longer true. It is now possible to kill off drones and survive. The HP boost is an indirect "nerf" to all drone boats, eos, domi etc...
Luckily gallente still have the astarte, brutix and megathron to use. As blasters and rails will be needed more now. I'd expect to see WAY more blaster domis in future.
Basically fighter and drone HP need to go up to put them relatively where they are now. ---
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:06:00 -
[132]
Originally by: LaCoHa Edited by: LaCoHa on 27/10/2006 00:09:46
Originally by: murder one
How the f#ck do you move around with no AB/MWD and a 1600 plate installed? I put a 1600 tungsten on and **WITH** an afterburner did 170m/sec. How are you even going to get a target in web range to keep it from getting away? Are you planning on having a cov ops for a warp in point at 5km every time?
And with the dual 150s and antimatter, GL getting over 8km of range out of them. What happens when all your drones are dead? Making the enemy take 10 minutes to kill you != victory.
yeah yeah. the drone bay issue will be solved. And i have modified it to use 3 MARII's, and no plate. +cap battery.
when is the last time you warped into a belt to kill some dude, and were not at 10k or less already?
you are either on top of him - and its go time, or he is 50k out, and you both just warp away.
0m or 150k.
Nah. Plenty of 25-35km away stuff where my Brutix MWDs and nabs him with my 20km scram. Same with my Mega and Vexor(but we're discussing BCs here). And further more, if they're not in web range your setup is so slow that a Domi w/ no AB can simply run off until he's out of scram range and then jump. It's a completely crap setup for attacking.
Because I said so...
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Nebuli
Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.27 01:14:00 -
[133]
Find it amusing how people think this ships is fine, yet I read and hear many people talking about how the drake compares favourably with the cerberus, probably lowering cerb prices etc.
The comparison of the Myr vs the Ishtar cant be made, Myr is WAY under powered in comparison.
Also some people seem to be comparing the vaga to the tier 2 BC, in fact all of the tier 2 BC seem to be comparing favourably to the HAC its related to, all except the Myr that is heh.
CEO - Art of War
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 04:08:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Kruel on 27/10/2006 04:09:31 TBH the Myr is more like a slightly upgraded vexor. Heck I bet the Vexor can out-dps the Myr with it's hybrid bonus. Not that anyone fits medium guns on a Vexor though.
If the Myr is supposed to tank, it should have an extra low and more drone space to keep the waves coming.
Oh yeah and a bit off topic but I just lost a bunch of tech2 drones tonight because they wouldn't return to the bay. I'd be nice if they fixed that.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.27 05:17:00 -
[135]
myr rewminds me of the t2/navy vex descriptions, recounting the tale of how researchers labored over complex plans to massivly improve it, then simply settled on more drone bay.
only when they ran out of coffee and gave up work on the myr, they didnt get much farther then the work on the new Model.
freakin' scientists.
Blaque or Foiritan |
Quilan Ziller
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Posted - 2006.10.27 06:41:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Quilan Ziller on 27/10/2006 06:42:10
Originally by: Kruel Edited by: Kruel on 27/10/2006 04:09:31 TBH the Myr is more like a slightly upgraded vexor. Heck I bet the Vexor can out-dps the Myr with it's hybrid bonus. Not that anyone fits medium guns on a Vexor though.
If the Myr is supposed to tank, it should have an extra low and more drone space to keep the waves coming.
Oh yeah and a bit off topic but I just lost a bunch of tech2 drones tonight because they wouldn't return to the bay. I'd be nice if they fixed that.
I use my Vexor with 2 med ions and 2 med electrons. Works very nice for 0.0 ratting. Now, with no hybrid bonus, what would be the reason for me to use Myrmidon? 0.0 rat spawns cannot break my Vexor's tank most of the time. It has a huge cargo bay, and warps fast if pirates appear in my roid belt. Why, why would I spend TEN TIMES the money to get a ship that has the same DPS, tanks a wee better, and is not nearly as nimble as my Vexor? Myrmidon's drone bay needs to be boosted... 100 m3 on a drone BC is underpowered and not versatile enough.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 07:22:00 -
[137]
Thanks to everybody who thinks im posting decent stuff. :) And its true about game balance. I really think that in a game like this, where people spend years specializing in one or two races, its very important that there is balance between the races. And thats why im in these kind of threads, arguing with you all... :)
And of course I sometimes write things that somebody looks at and thinks "wtf is the guy going on about here?". :) I can and do change my opinions when faced with facts I cant argue against. I went into this thread thinking that it was just another gallente whine about not getting another pwnmobile, but this thread has actually changed my opinion a bit.
As soon as NB updates his excel spreadsheet, ill run the dps numbers for all the ships with the new ammo changes, but currently it does look like the ship needs a dps boost. Its the highest dps ship of them all, but only as long as all the drones are intact. And without multispectrals, it will be difficult to prevent the enemy from destroying the drones. They will most likely get a hp buff though, so we'll see how hard they become to kill after that change.
And I think remote repairing will be boosted as well.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:22:00 -
[138]
Originally by: murder one Sounds like your opponents didn't know what they were doing.
Then, because the OP died to every other BC, I guess he didnt know what he was doing either.
Just because you die, doesnt mean your clueless. Izo Azlion.
---
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Tannach
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:32:00 -
[139]
How about doubling the hps of drones? That is the same as having back-up drones in your drone-bay.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:42:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Tannach How about doubling the hps of drones? That is the same as having back-up drones in your drone-bay.
Well, you already get +50% with the ship bonus. Lets wait and see how much the drones get hp boosted first, so you dont get drones with 2000 hp each...
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
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Ms Freak
Amarr NCN Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:51:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Lanielle I tend to agree that it needs a bigger drone bay. It's just too easy to kill the drones making the ship useless there on.
However i was having great success against turret ships last night with:
6x med diminishing nos, 2x whatever (i used dual 150mms) 1x MWD, 1x 20km scram, 3x tracking disruptors 5x nanos
It went about 2km/s, you can orbit ouside of webrange whilst sucking them dry with the nos and letting your drones beat them down.
I don't realy know how the ECM changes would effect this but what about adding some ECM??
Maybe something like:
6x med diminishing nos, 2x whatever 1x MWD, 1x 20km scram, 3x ECM Multi Small Repper, 2 EANM, 2x nanos
Adding a basic tank could prolong your life a bit while the ECM can do just enough to stop your target killing your drones a bit too quickly?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.27 09:58:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Originally by: murder one Sounds like your opponents didn't know what they were doing.
Then, because the OP died to every other BC, I guess he didnt know what he was doing either.
Just because you die, doesnt mean your clueless.
I know exactly what I'm doing, it's just that a Myrmidon w/ all it's drones dead does about 25% the damage of the other BCs. And there is nothing you can do about it if your opponent knows what he's doing.
Because I said so...
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LaCoHa
Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.10.27 10:28:00 -
[143]
Originally by: murder one
Nah. Plenty of 25-35km away stuff where my Brutix MWDs and nabs him with my 20km scram. Same with my Mega and Vexor(but we're discussing BCs here). And further more, if they're not in web range your setup is so slow that a Domi w/ no AB can simply run off until he's out of scram range and then jump. It's a completely crap setup for attacking.
the (border line ridiculous albeit) setup i was using with three rprs and no plate allows the beast to move at somewhere around the 180-200ms mark.
The ship needs some changes, but like with any ship - the right setup, and maybe more importantly - picking your targets properly, will almost always ensure success.
...because I said so.
"I just slaughtered 28 people in that game of Battlefield 2 and never died. Man my e-p33n feels huge." |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:08:00 -
[144]
Originally by: LaCoHa
Originally by: murder one
Nah. Plenty of 25-35km away stuff where my Brutix MWDs and nabs him with my 20km scram. Same with my Mega and Vexor(but we're discussing BCs here). And further more, if they're not in web range your setup is so slow that a Domi w/ no AB can simply run off until he's out of scram range and then jump. It's a completely crap setup for attacking.
Yes I realize you were just goofing around w/ setups, but once you get a viable setup pvp wise on the ship w/ either plate/mwd or no plate/ab for some decent speed, it just doesn't have the chops to compete atm. On a completely different note... HOORAY FOR STAB NERF!!! \o/
the (border line ridiculous albeit) setup i was using with three rprs and no plate allows the beast to move at somewhere around the 180-200ms mark.
The ship needs some changes, but like with any ship - the right setup, and maybe more importantly - picking your targets properly, will almost always ensure success.
...because I said so.
Because I said so...
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Temo Jick
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Posted - 2006.10.27 11:48:00 -
[145]
Just a quick response to the Myrmidon's highest DPS of the battleships. IĘve read in some of the other topics that the Dommie has the highest DPS of the battleships to. Funny how itĘs usually set up in such a way that its damage is sub par. With the Myrmidons current grid their is no way IĘm fitting any more then 5 irons if i want a duel Rep or MWD setup on this thing. And without a damage bonus, and with the low agility of this ship I donĘt think any one has anything to fear from those 5 irons. Actually right now my plans are to stick frigate sized guns on the thing, that way I can still have a good frigate defence and use heavy drones. But with just 4 heavyĘs and no replacementsą well IĘm not making any new points hear am I?
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Johnny Bravo
Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2006.10.27 13:03:00 -
[146]
I would suggest to increase dronebay on Myrmidon to 200m3 but DECREASE drone bonus to 5% per lvl if its possible. If its not possible from the programming POV, than we can drop drone bonus alltogether and replace it with hybrid damage bonus and _slight_ increase in PG. Btw, comparing Myrmidon with Ishtar is not fair - all of us know what Ishtar is overpowered HAC. All other races would also like to have a HAC with damage of BS - but sadly no luck atm.
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Arushia
Nova Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.28 04:14:00 -
[147]
The problem I see witht he Myrmidon is there's 2 possible setups: Heavy Drones: good DPS, dies horribly once the drones are popped because it can't replace them. Medium/Light Drones: can replace its drones now, but can't do any more DPS than the Vexor.
Almost certainly needs its 6th turret. Perhaps change its bonus to 15% to Medium drone damage and HP per level. Maybe increase its drone bay to the 125-150 range.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.10.28 04:47:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Johnny Bravo I would suggest to increase dronebay on Myrmidon to 200m3 but DECREASE drone bonus to 5% per lvl if its possible. If its not possible from the programming POV, than we can drop drone bonus alltogether and replace it with hybrid damage bonus and _slight_ increase in PG. Btw, comparing Myrmidon with Ishtar is not fair - all of us know what Ishtar is overpowered HAC. All other races would also like to have a HAC with damage of BS - but sadly no luck atm.
Could you provide some numbers to support your position? Like the DPS comparisons for the new BCs and respective HACs, proof that Ishtar does BS DPS, etc. ... |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.28 06:04:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Johnny Bravo All other races would also like to have a HAC with damage of BS - but sadly no luck atm.
The dominix in the stupid 6x neutron blaster, shield tank, 3 damage mod, 3 RCUIIs and a CPU2 setup is the highest DPS battleship in the game at over 1200dps. The Ishtar tops out at around 500.
BTW, I bet my Sabre outdamages a Scorp. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.10.28 06:09:00 -
[150]
twidles thumbs for the dps numbers...
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