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j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.04 17:32:00 - [31] "Faction ratings will prolly be reset when the faction system is implemented." ... According to recent comment from Papa Smurf (the guy in charge of the whole faction/agents system) the standings will be most likely halved with the introduction of the new system, with personal standings towards specific agents maintained so you can still use their services.
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.11.04 17:45:00 - [32] I've been in fountain chaining rats for the past week, and my Serpenits Merc status is still 0. Nothing has changed. So, unless you've been chaining in 0.1, the regional alliances should be safe. Wether that's right or wrong, I won't go into, hehe [Heterocephalus glaber]
Maud Dib	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:14:00 - [33] Quote: Quote: Me if they foul up allainces I'm going rat. To the unaffiliated what is the difference? I warn. I don't ask for money. Outside of my home I don't bother anyone at all. Think of it like this I worked and got a home. As long as you stay out of my yard you are fine. Next door is a guy who will shoot you in his yard. He will also shoot you in my yard and in the road and in the next block over. I think you were trying to be cute but if you really don't see the differences then this might not be a simple enough game for you.
Rath Amon	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:18:00 - [34] I'm pretty sure that npc pirate factions will be reset to 0 because npc pirates always attack right now no matter what your standing is. They can't punish people for defending their ships.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:20:00 - [35] Quote: I'm pretty sure that npc pirate factions will be reset to 0 because npc pirates always attack right now no matter what your standing is. They can't punish people for defending their ships. Why not? If I shoot back at the Amarr shooting me everytime I pass through Amarr space, I'll take another faction hit. Nevermind having the Amarr sentry guns tear my ship a new tailpipe for that. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:26:00 - [36] Edited by: Nirvy on 04/11/2003 18:28:27 Jash, I agree that this should ahve been implimented a long long time ago. but CCP cannot just decide to impliment it now with out some find of faction reset. How exactly were we to know CCP would suddenly decide to impliment these faction/stations. Seriously the CA/SA/FA/NVA/CFS/GW alliances all stand to lose their homes. What the hell do CCP expect us to do? All move back into Empire space because 90% of us hunt every rat there is for loot. Player owned stations wont be here till Tech3, which could be 6 months down the line, chances are they will cost 100's of billions each. This would also mean i can no longer hunt for loot for my tempest, and i REFUSE to use that abomonation of a trade channel CCP are delusional enough to think is all we need. What will happen to all my Corps assets in Angels stations? will we wake up one day unable to dock to retrieve it? a LOT of people are waiting for this patch to see if CCP royal ** it up, they had REALLY ebtter know what they are doing this time, other wise it wont just be one or 2 people quitting, it will be 100's maybe 1000's. Mercenary \| The Azath**
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:28:00 - [37] Muad Dib, problem there being alliances locking down all of 0.0 so everywhere will be home for someone. To the people not wishing to be part of the faceless mass that is an alliance there is no real difference between pirates and alliances. Convert Stations
Kojee	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:33:00 - [38] Edited by: Kojee on 04/11/2003 18:40:06 Quote: Oh, and they are going to nerf mining too - missed that. i.e. lets go nerf crazy to fix our game rather than address the real issues. To Tentimes: I'm assuming your IQ is less than or equal to 70, which is borderline mental retardation. They aren't NERFING everything, they're merely adding to them or changing minute details about them TO MAKE THE UNIVERSE BETTER. To the EVE Online Community: Honestly, I think CCP is finally getting on track as far as fixing the EVE universe and adding features is concerned. /emote thinks Tentimes should lose everything in his character (ships, isk, skill points) just for being an idiot.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:38:00 - [39] Quote: Edited by: Nirvy on 04/11/2003 18:28:27 Jash, I agree that this should ahve been implimented a long long time ago. but CCP cannot just decide to impliment it now with out some find of faction reset. How exactly were we to know CCP would suddenly decide to impliment these faction/stations. Seriously the CA/SA/FA/NVA/CFS/GW alliances all stand to lose their homes. What the hell do CCP expect us to do? All move back into Empire space because 90% of us hunt every rat there is for loot. Player owned stations wont be here till Tech3, which could be 6 months down the line, chances are they will cost 100's of billions each. This would also mean i can no longer hunt for loot for my tempest, and i REFUSE to use that abomonation of a trade channel CCP are delusional enough to think is all we need. What will happen to all my Corps assets in Angels stations? will we wake up one day unable to dock to retrieve it? a LOT of people are waiting for this patch to see if CCP royal **** it up, they had REALLY ebtter know what they are doing this time, other wise it wont just be one or 2 people quitting, it will be 100's maybe 1000's. Honest answer, Nirvy? I expect CCP to actually listen to people telling them they can't implement such a feature until the ability to at least build a mobile refinery, mobile dock and mobile factory are in game. Then give a month's fair warning to give people time to: 1) Acquire the outpost modules necessary 2) Build the outposts 3) Relocate their assets out of the npc stations. I expected this a long time ago. I don't and won't store anything of value in a Thukker Mix factory because killing Angel NPCs tank your Thukker Tribe faction standing. The issue concerning loot is another issue entirely. Given the fact that NPC pirates are the best source for modules and bounties, I'd also expect the NPC pirate corporations to be a little more lenient in enforcing their docking policies. Consider essentially consider people destroying their ships and occupational hazard. Perhaps linking the faction hits to who starts shooting first, ie: people must wait for the pirates to actually land a hit before firing and taking the subsequent faction loss. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Rath Amon	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:41:00 - [40] Quote: Why not? If I shoot back at the Amarr shooting me everytime I pass through Amarr space, I'll take another faction hit. Nevermind having the Amarr sentry guns tear my ship a new tailpipe for that. Your standing with Amarr must be very low. Even at 0 standing with Sansha's Nation or Guristas their ships will attack you. From the moment your new character tries to mine in a 0.8 system or lower you begin to lose pirate standing just by defending your ship. They can't change just one aspect of the system (npc faction standings being meaningful) while ignoring another aspect that directly affects the first (all npc pirate faction being KOS all the time).
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:51:00 - [41] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Nirvy on 04/11/2003 18:28:27 Jash, I agree that this should ahve been implimented a long long time ago. but CCP cannot just decide to impliment it now with out some find of faction reset. How exactly were we to know CCP would suddenly decide to impliment these faction/stations. Seriously the CA/SA/FA/NVA/CFS/GW alliances all stand to lose their homes. What the hell do CCP expect us to do? All move back into Empire space because 90% of us hunt every rat there is for loot. Player owned stations wont be here till Tech3, which could be 6 months down the line, chances are they will cost 100's of billions each. This would also mean i can no longer hunt for loot for my tempest, and i REFUSE to use that abomonation of a trade channel CCP are delusional enough to think is all we need. What will happen to all my Corps assets in Angels stations? will we wake up one day unable to dock to retrieve it? a LOT of people are waiting for this patch to see if CCP royal ** it up, they had REALLY ebtter know what they are doing this time, other wise it wont just be one or 2 people quitting, it will be 100's maybe 1000's. Honest answer, Nirvy? I expect CCP to actually listen to people telling them they can't implement such a feature until the ability to at least build a mobile refinery, mobile dock and mobile factory are in game. Then give a month's fair warning to give people time to: 1) Acquire the outpost modules necessary 2) Build the outposts 3) Relocate their assets out of the npc stations. I expected this a long time ago. I don't and won't store anything of value in a Thukker Mix factory because killing Angel NPCs tank your Thukker Tribe faction standing. The issue concerning loot is another issue entirely. Given the fact that NPC pirates are the best source for modules and bounties, I'd also expect the NPC pirate corporations to be a little more lenient in enforcing their docking policies. Consider essentially consider people destroying their ships and occupational hazard. Perhaps linking the faction hits to who starts shooting first, ie: people must wait for the pirates to actually land a hit before firing and taking the subsequent faction loss. Sadly my faith in CCP is getting lower and lower There are so many things that could go wrong here, mining in my home region of curse could be tricky if i cant kill the attacking rats. I have done 250 Agent missions, each of which has lowered my status to the pirate factions. From what i gather a Player Station will take weeks to build, and cost 100's of Billion. Kinda hard to accomodate the 60 corp plus alliances such as CA/FA/SA isnt it? Also if the alliances are limited to only one or 2 stations, all the combat will focus around those 2 stations, and not the whole regions as it currently does. Your ideas are decent, but will CCP think of them? God knows Many people might not like the alliances, but there must be 300-400 corps in the top 4 alliances combined, and even taking an average of 3 people a corp..thats a lot of people. Like i said, that particular patch will be the decision patch for me, and no dounbt for many others. If they do it right, then great i'll have restored faith in CCP. If they mess this up however...buh bye Mercenary \| The Azath**
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:57:00 - [42] I just think the way NPC pirate factions "act" will change. CCP must implement meaningful sovereignity regions for NPC factions or their entire vaunted storyline is fubar'd. They have no choice but to put in standings/factions that are meaningful with meaningful consequences. If they don't the game ends "now". The question is "how" without destroying some of the playerbase. First thing that springs to mind for me is that not every station in region X belongs to the same faction/corporation and that there will surely be varrying ranges of standing-for-access. Exclusion from docking may be the second most severe (fired upon if you go near being the worst). This leaves a whole range to be toyed with.. from various modular access (refinery, factory, research, market, insurance) down to and including variable charges based on standing (more expensive the more dubious you are to that faction/corp). But staying ina Guristas Station using Guristas facilities whilst killing Guristas all day - it has to end for EVE to have any immersion at all. "END" doesn't have to be black and white though... there is plenty of room for lots of grey. Bottomline: At some point those who have claimed corporation factional space and using the corporation facilities of the very NPCs they hunt - those people will face some measure of change. This was nevitable and foreseeable...some of us have been prediciting it and actingl long term with regards to it, since day 1. It isnt a shock.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2003.11.04 18:59:00 - [43] Again, get people designated to handle the different aspects, after all isn't alliances all about people filling niches to be self-reliant as a whole? If you could do everything yourself that I'd consider a far worse failure. This is good news. Convert Stations
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:01:00 - [44] Quote: If they don't the game ends "now". Don't you mean "Soon(tm)"? Quote: This was nevitable and foreseeable...some of us have been prediciting it and actingl long term with regards to it, since day 1. It isnt a shock. Yup. Took them long enough too =\ [Heterocephalus glaber]
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:32:00 - [45] Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte. Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear! This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that. Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries
Maud Dib	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:46:00 - [46] Quote: Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte. Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear! This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that. Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries Please translate...I think he's not a native English speaker and I only got part of that. PS If you think this means you will have safer access to 0.0 space you are wrong.
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:47:00 - [47] It would merely be a switch back to how it was originally. When TTi originally based at venal (Yes, before anyone was there), Gurista turrets fired on alot of TTi peeps because they were hunting Guristas. That feature got switched off, just because its unreasonable to have it on when player owned stations arent available. But when they are, it makes perfectly good sense that factions shoot you if you shoot them. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Tobruk	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:49:00 - [48] My god, think of the bistot mining ops that currently have to go 10+ jumps to a station (pirate station). If the faction system were 'fixed', it could be horrifying. I don't think they can implement the faction system without tech3 personally. ----------------------------------------------
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:50:00 - [49] tech3 (you mean stations) or mobile refineries. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Maud Dib	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:54:00 - [50] Quote: It would merely be a switch back to how it was originally. When TTi originally based at venal (Yes, before anyone was there), Gurista turrets fired on alot of TTi peeps because they were hunting Guristas. That feature got switched off, just because its unreasonable to have it on when player owned stations arent available. But when they are, it makes perfectly good sense that factions shoot you if you shoot them. Agreed but they would have to wait untill you can build them and give ample warning. Then yeah it makes sense. I think the thing that bothers a lot of people is that sometimes stuff here isn't given the documentation it should.
Tobruk	Posted - 2003.11.04 19:58:00 - [51] Quote: tech3 (you mean stations) or mobile refineries. Both. Either would prevent some poor hauler from having to go 35 jumps through 0.0 space. ----------------------------------------------
Harisdrop	Posted - 2003.11.04 20:06:00 - [52] Lets consider what your saying, who shoots first! When you started you thought the object was to kill pirates. Now its making alliances with those whom you wish to please. Consider now you want to increase your standing with the bad guys guess what; you now have BS bad guys you have to kill to raise your faction(Concord or any empire state). Ohh by the way the faction will be tied directly to agents and thier corp. If you consider the station and which corp owns it you might want an office in, you might have to donate hard earned cash you where going to build that BS with going to a NPC corp to stay there safe ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.11.04 20:20:00 - [53] Exactly why should Stain be worried? Anyone who has spent time killing Sansha Nation pirates in Stain probably has a neutral standing toward True Power. I know I have. http://www.frothy.org/images/stands1.jpg http://www.frothy.org/images/stands2.jpg LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.04 20:33:00 - [54] Quote: Sadly my faith in CCP is getting lower and lower There are so many things that could go wrong here, mining in my home region of curse could be tricky if i cant kill the attacking rats. I have done 250 Agent missions, each of which has lowered my status to the pirate factions. From what i gather a Player Station will take weeks to build, and cost 100's of Billion. Kinda hard to accomodate the 60 corp plus alliances such as CA/FA/SA isnt it? Also if the alliances are limited to only one or 2 stations, all the combat will focus around those 2 stations, and not the whole regions as it currently does. Your ideas are decent, but will CCP think of them? God knows Many people might not like the alliances, but there must be 300-400 corps in the top 4 alliances combined, and even taking an average of 3 people a corp..thats a lot of people. Like i said, that particular patch will be the decision patch for me, and no dounbt for many others. If they do it right, then great i'll have restored faith in CCP. If they mess this up however...buh bye Faith? Why do you think that ruckus over the CSM questions got started? Programmers and developers are great at bringing their ideas into form through coding. But it's rare that I've met anyone who designs anything for use by others that don't share a common flaw: A blindspot towards their own designs. If CCP doesn't communicate with the players the chances are higher that they will not get it right. Or they will lose precious time trying to do it all themselves. Same way we're having this conversation concerning the possible fallout of the changes and how to avoid them, the developers are probably doing the same. But they might not see all the pitfalls that 20 people discussing the same feature might forsee. You know the best way to design something to be childproof? Give it to a child and watch what he does. Morkt is right that many people anticipated this change and to steps to avoid the fallout. But at the same time there has to be allowances for those who didn't suspect such things were possible. And there has to be a viable method to continue working. I think the change to a modular design for station building was probably to offset the high costs and time required to create a fully fledged station. So the question is do they realize that alliances and large corporations that have long since left Empire space require not just the mobile refineries, but mobile factories and ship docking modules all at the same time? Dunno. They aren't speaking usuall till it gets too late. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2003.11.04 21:17:00 - [55] Quote: Quote: Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte. Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear! This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that. Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries Please translate...I think he's not a native English speaker and I only got part of that. PS If you think this means you will have safer access to 0.0 space you are wrong. I am from Florida and am 100% USDA baby. English is my First language, thank you. Basically all over the forums you can read posts commenting on low security folk with Big Bad Battleships that don't NPC hunt as much or PvP. Well now you know why.. most of us take the game seriously and don't just jump in half-assed and blast everything we see.. NPC or Not. We stick to Empire Space more often then not and are called Carebears ( I guess thats an MMORPG slang... this is my first MMORPG btw ) and are harshly degraded by PvPers. So I am stating that all you morons that are crying me a river about this welcomed,Logical move to make NPCs more a role in this game than they are now... are the True Carebears..... and aren't welcoming change that is needed. You have stuck yourself in a position that might render you useless. And now I have to wade thru a river of tears. Let CCP make Eve into what they envisioned it. If you don't like it... by all means Leave... your tears won't be missed... Carebear.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.11.04 21:26:00 - [56] Quote: ... Let CCP make Eve into what they envisioned it. If you don't like it... by all means Leave... your tears won't be missed... Carebear. Okay Kaylon Syi, when would you like Tank CEO to stop by and blast you into atoms inside Empire Space? Cause originally, the idea behind Concord and Empire Security forces was their response time and the makeup of the response fleet was designated by the sec rating of the solar system you were in. That's right, during beta when I carried a -10.0 sec rating people could fly through even 1.0 solar systems...in a Rifter. They couldn't stop flying for very long, but then it wouldn't take long for a wing of Caracals loaded with torps to dust your pretty battleship with no weapons and (just betting the odds) terrible shields because of the 2+ mwds you'd have installed to offset all those cargo expanders on the low slot . But hey you've been accomodated so to hell with everyone else's concerns, right? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
dalman	Posted - 2003.11.04 21:33:00 - [57] Quote: yeah - that specific bit though.... Wake-up call to those in Venal, Stain etc... get fixing those factions! Already done that. And I'm pretty sure everyone in my corp has a positive standing towards Sansha's Nation. As for what is wrong in EVE: Read the thread in my signature. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Kin Hanyerec	Posted - 2003.11.04 21:36:00 - [58] Everyone is worried about the negative standings, but there must be some "advantages" in having high standings with a faction. I wonder what kind of services you'll have from these factions with a standing >9 =) Anyone knows ?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.11.04 21:37:00 - [59] Quote: Everyone is worried about the negative standings, but there must be some "advantages" in having high standings with a faction. I wonder what kind of services you'll have from these factions with a standing >9 =) Anyone knows ? Cheaper services, better items available from NPC market....... LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
dalman	Posted - 2003.11.04 21:42:00 - [60] Quote: Everyone is worried about the negative standings, but there must be some "advantages" in having high standings with a faction. I wonder what kind of services you'll have from these factions with a standing >9 =) Anyone knows ? Well, everyone who has never done an agent mission have +10 standing towards "good" factions M.I.A. since 2004-07-30

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