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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 04/11/2003 16:13:25
Read it if you havent already
Good stuff.
 Quote:
The standing system has also not been transparent enough nor flexible enough, so we haven't been able to effectively deploy standing-based services such as docking, jumping, market access, etc. The improvements to the standing system as a part of the Tech level 2 release will address this.
Heads-up to those in "alliances"... your time is up ....
(or get working on those factions)
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:13:00 -
[2]
See top sticky, btw.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:34:00 -
[3]
yeah - that specific bit though....
Wake-up call to those in Venal, Stain etc...
get fixing those factions!
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Krac
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:39:00 -
[4]
i dont think they have anything to worry about
after this patch wich i doubt has this stuff in it they have like 6-12 weeks untill it might make it in but things change, ideas change, game direction changes often
this patch is proboly got alot of stuff from papa smurf but the next patch and the one after might be more focused on another dev/aspect |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:42:00 -
[5]
Well it takes weeks to clear -9.9 factions passively.
Can't say they weren't warned.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:46:00 -
[6]
Good news indeed, I certainly hope alliances get routed out of sovereign space, their place is beyond these systems.
Convert Stations
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:47:00 -
[7]
Faction ratings will prolly be reset when the faction system is implemented.
-
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:49:00 -
[8]
On what grounds would they be reset?
Convert Stations
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:52:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Faction ratings will prolly be reset when the faction system is implemented.
Actually that seems unlikely as Devs have already ststed the continuence of most standings for factional reasons in missions.
Many will be lowered as they hit the incoming cap (agent x 2 and such like) but reset to a blank sheet?
I think you are very mistaken Viceroy.. go read Zrakors posts et al.
Even if reset, th epoint remains valid, you aren't going to be able to sit ina Guristas station after killing guristas for your income/modules.
Different ballgame...
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Paddyman
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Paddyman on 04/11/2003 16:57:44
Quote:
So, there is an afterlife for your Tech level 1 ships. They can either be used as components in Tech level 2 manufacturing or can be upgraded through agents.
Hmmm im not too sure about this, i was hoping that tech lvl 2 will completely wash the mess the market currently is in. This above just means less people buying new tech lvl 2, especially if they make it too convienient.
Quote:
Once you get a miner II you never loose it
I like this though, not just with miners, the idea that equipment lasts forever aint helpful at all to the economy.
Also the afk miners in 1.0 space with their BS's are going to have some danger element pited against them. Sweet, hope i can help out.
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:55:00 -
[11]
I doubt they'll really do it the hard way. It would kill most alliances or force them to do agents missions or something.
This change is to huge to do it 5months into the game.
They will have to work on balancing it alot.
I don't wanna lose my 10.0 concord standing, but i couldn't dock with my -9.x true power standing, so what do i do?
--
The worst thing you can do when suggesting a solution to a problem is to provide alternatives, people end up arguing the alternatives instead of implementing the fix. |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:56:00 -
[12]
Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once you get a miner II you never loose it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like this though, not jsut with miners, the idea that equipment lasts forever aint helpful at all to the economy.
Thats what he meant paddy - not loosing it = bad.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:57:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I doubt they'll really do it the hard way. It would kill most alliances or force them to do agents missions or something.
This change is to huge to do it 5months into the game.
They will have to work on balancing it alot.
I don't wanna lose my 10.0 concord standing, but i couldn't dock with my -9.x true power standing, so what do i do?
For a fact your 10.00 concord standing will go... that much we know allready and has been confirmed quite unequivocably.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.04 16:59:00 -
[14]
Ok it makes sense but if you have to kill the rats to mine the ore then you can't dock in station to refine the ore? My guess is if that really happens a lot of the alliance guy will go pirate and farm miners instead of NPC's The carebears think EVE is a gank fest now?
Plus i think when the carebears can't refine because they can't dock either then you are going to see a great deal of cheese on the boards.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:00:00 -
[15]
So, people with -9 guristas faction rating will no longer be able to dock at gurista run facilities... bugger me. Big implications for Venal then...
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:03:00 -
[16]
The tech II stuff looks good. Maybe hang around another month just to see how it turns out. 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:03:00 -
[17]
Maud - i think thats an assumption based on what we have now as means of accessing belts... doesn't mean that will remain the same.
They also made clear distinction between docking andother facilities...
there is a whole range there revolving around access "at all" down to "access at extreme cost".
its not black and white - or lets hope it isnt... either way though.. since day 1 I have been waiting for Guristas spacce to be guristas space (and so on). It is so dumb to be killing the rats then docking at their stations.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:05:00 -
[18]
Quote:
The tech II stuff looks good. Maybe hang around another month just to see how it turns out.
ADDICT!  
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sutty
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:05:00 -
[19]
imagine if they did that and technically broke up the alliances. alot of people would quit. alot of people have worked hard keeping alliances working properly. alot of the player made content is to do with alliances ( since ccp give us nothing decent we make our own) if they did that there would be hell :)
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Chucky
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:07:00 -
[20]
Tragic they feel that way. I personally think resource collection is way too slow yet, Insurance is the only reason itÆs not crippling. Trit has got to 3 isk like it did in beta, not even 2 isk. Using 8 miner 2Æs and 9 Harvesters is still damned boring!
I think the main reason they want slow progress, is the slowness of content release. Lately the community has been making itÆs own content with outer regional Wars. Sadly, because of jump-in camping they almost always end in a stalemate with kat calling. Even though both side know entry ends in a Smack down without a fight.
I hope CCP fixes the problems they have before creating new ones, but itÆs probably not the 1st time IÆve said that.
Quote:
11) what in your opinion is currently wrong with eve?
We understand that progression is way too fast. Players skid past areas in the game. We attribute this to 2 main things, the first being that skill learning is too fast. That will be fixed, in part, with Tech level 2, as it includes a lot of new skills that have the Tech level one skills as requirements. Secondly, the mining combos that people are using are way too powerful, mining with 6 miners IIs and 8 harvester drones on a Dom is much too profitable compared to how utterly and completely riskless it is.
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:07:00 -
[21]
Well some things that stood out for me from this damning interview:
(1) No new significant content until 2004
(2) Players are too powerful we are going to nerf them
(3) We're looking at how to introduce complex time sinks to slow players down
(4) We know PvP sucks and aare going to try and fix it - no time frame.
Very disspointed.
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Tentimes
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:10:00 -
[22]
Oh, and they are going to nerf mining too - missed that.
i.e. lets go nerf crazy to fix our game rather than address the real issues.
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:12:00 -
[23]
Good God
So because im in curse, and hunt the angels around curse a lot, im not going to be able to dock anywhere near curse due to my low standings???
Hell i have VERY low standing to all the pirate NPC's as i hunt in all the areas for loot.
If one day i d/l a patch and find i can no longer dock at 0.0 stations, and my corp and alliance are in the same boat, you WILL see mass people leaving Eve.
I really hope im reading this wrong :(
Mercenary | The Azath |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:13:00 -
[24]
sutty, take a look at your corporations name, yes now that's a clever monkey!
Convert Stations
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:14:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Maud - i think thats an assumption based on what we have now as means of accessing belts... doesn't mean that will remain the same.
They also made clear distinction between docking andother facilities...
there is a whole range there revolving around access "at all" down to "access at extreme cost".
its not black and white - or lets hope it isnt... either way though.. since day 1 I have been waiting for Guristas spacce to be guristas space (and so on). It is so dumb to be killing the rats then docking at their stations.
I agree with you about the basics but it wiill also be dumb to be attacked in one territory by rats of another faction so who else will guard belts? One thing is for sure if they don't put out the exact info well ahead of time then lots of people will get po'ed and leave.
Me if they foul up allainces I'm going rat.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:17:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Me if they foul up allainces I'm going rat.
To the unaffiliated what is the difference?
Convert Stations
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ZzeusS
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: ZzeusS on 04/11/2003 17:28:53
I don't really think it's a good idea to introduce faction station lock-outs without also introducing the ability to build player owned stations. People have to go somewhere
Put in the real faction system, player built stations (maybe sentry guns, billboards, etc), and random warp-in points, and Tech 2 stuff and I think you'll have solved most of eve's problems.
The new agent system sounds pretty cool, too.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:23:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Edited by: Paddyman on 04/11/2003 16:57:44
Quote:
So, there is an afterlife for your Tech level 1 ships. They can either be used as components in Tech level 2 manufacturing or can be upgraded through agents.
Hmmm im not too sure about this, i was hoping that tech lvl 2 will completely wash the mess the market currently is in. This above just means less people buying new tech lvl 2, especially if they make it too convienient.
Actually if the nature of the move requires original blueprints, this will make a huge isk sink as players rush to buy originals of the blueprints they have copies for. While paying back the investment of original owners.
I paid 750m for a Scorpion blueprint. Erasing that investment would see me in a seriously bad mood.
My concern is the blueprint licensing issue that still remains. As it stands a person with absolutely no intentions of manufacturing from a blueprint can affect the market for the item through copies. It may take 15 hours to copy a bship blueprint, but that's unattended time spent. And while a manufacturer may be able to crank out 3 bships in the time it takes to generate 1 bship copy run, the manhours required to collect the minerals for 3 bships vastly outweighs the copy time.
While blueprint licensing is still implemented, manufacturers will face losing their market to copiers. Even when manufacturered sets become availible, as you can manufacture your own set and likely get the same bonuses as if you went to a dedicated manufacturing corporation.
Quote:
Quote:
Once you get a miner II you never loose it
I like this though, not just with miners, the idea that equipment lasts forever aint helpful at all to the economy.
Thinking that the lifetime of a mining laser compared to a ship was the sole contributor to the miner II downfall is naive. I watched it happen, and as Morkt will claim helped it happen. The universal demand wasn't protected from the actions of the few suppliers because of the highways. There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the day I dumped 100 miners on the market at 1.4m the price fell universally and stayed there except for the ease of transport of the products.
There was no significant supply of miners in regions outside of Heimatar because it was too simple to go to Heimatar, where there was a glut of manufacturers competing, and get cheaper prices. Unless you met or undercut the price in Heimatar. That's why the market self-destructed in a week.
Quote:
Also the afk miners in 1.0 space with their BS's are going to have some danger element pited against them. Sweet, hope i can help out.
I seriously hope that you can help out. Player pirates, ego aside, are opponents that can be defeated. They are also opponents that require constant adaptation of methods and tactics to continue defeating them. Game mechanics are defeated once and forever.
If there is to be a challenge in Empire space to mining to restore the risk vs reward balance, it has to come from something that can adapt to the live thought processes of a real player without a month of recoding or an over the top 'tweak' the causes more pain to everyone. People will just have to get over the ignomity of losing to another player. And the pirates will have to live with the fact that some mechanical restraints will be necessary to prevent an all out bloodletting 23.75/7 (if they reduce downtime as they say).
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:29:00 -
[29]
I was under the impression that mobile refinarys would be in by then, alliances need only assign different tasks to different groups, some guard against PC threats, some still against NPC some mine & haul. Geez, one could mistake you for the boogiebear...
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:29:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Good God
So because im in curse, and hunt the angels around curse a lot, im not going to be able to dock anywhere near curse due to my low standings???
Hell i have VERY low standing to all the pirate NPC's as i hunt in all the areas for loot.
If one day i d/l a patch and find i can no longer dock at 0.0 stations, and my corp and alliance are in the same boat, you WILL see mass people leaving Eve.
I really hope im reading this wrong :(
Nirvy, honestly it should never been allowed to happen in the first place. I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Quote:
The minute players began leaving Empire space for good, player owned entities were REQUIRED
You should not be based in an Archangel station without having appropriate standings to allow it. Otherwise it renders the idea behind the Archangel corporation, the Thukker Tribe faction and Serpentis Corporations meaningless. But to compensate for that, you should have been able to build your own station or outpost from the minute Empire Space became superflous.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:32:00 -
[31]
"Faction ratings will prolly be reset when the faction system is implemented."
... According to recent comment from Papa Smurf (the guy in charge of the whole faction/agents system) the standings will be most likely halved with the introduction of the new system, with personal standings towards specific agents maintained so you can still use their services.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.04 17:45:00 -
[32]
I've been in fountain chaining rats for the past week, and my Serpenits Merc status is still 0.
Nothing has changed.
So, unless you've been chaining in 0.1, the regional alliances should be safe.
Wether that's right or wrong, I won't go into, hehe
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:14:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Quote:
Me if they foul up allainces I'm going rat.
To the unaffiliated what is the difference?
I warn. I don't ask for money. Outside of my home I don't bother anyone at all.
Think of it like this I worked and got a home. As long as you stay out of my yard you are fine.
Next door is a guy who will shoot you in his yard. He will also shoot you in my yard and in the road and in the next block over.
I think you were trying to be cute but if you really don't see the differences then this might not be a simple enough game for you.
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Rath Amon
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:18:00 -
[34]
I'm pretty sure that npc pirate factions will be reset to 0 because npc pirates always attack right now no matter what your standing is. They can't punish people for defending their ships.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:20:00 -
[35]
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that npc pirate factions will be reset to 0 because npc pirates always attack right now no matter what your standing is. They can't punish people for defending their ships.
Why not? If I shoot back at the Amarr shooting me everytime I pass through Amarr space, I'll take another faction hit. Nevermind having the Amarr sentry guns tear my ship a new tailpipe for that.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:26:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Nirvy on 04/11/2003 18:28:27
Jash,
I agree that this should ahve been implimented a long long time ago. but CCP cannot just decide to impliment it now with out some find of faction reset.
How exactly were we to know CCP would suddenly decide to impliment these faction/stations. Seriously the CA/SA/FA/NVA/CFS/GW alliances all stand to lose their homes.
What the hell do CCP expect us to do? All move back into Empire space because 90% of us hunt every rat there is for loot.
Player owned stations wont be here till Tech3, which could be 6 months down the line, chances are they will cost 100's of billions each. This would also mean i can no longer hunt for loot for my tempest, and i REFUSE to use that abomonation of a trade channel CCP are delusional enough to think is all we need.
What will happen to all my Corps assets in Angels stations? will we wake up one day unable to dock to retrieve it?
a LOT of people are waiting for this patch to see if CCP royal **** it up, they had REALLY ebtter know what they are doing this time, other wise it wont just be one or 2 people quitting, it will be 100's maybe 1000's.
Mercenary | The Azath |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:28:00 -
[37]
Muad Dib, problem there being alliances locking down all of 0.0 so everywhere will be home for someone.
To the people not wishing to be part of the faceless mass that is an alliance there is no real difference between pirates and alliances.
Convert Stations
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Kojee
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:33:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Kojee on 04/11/2003 18:40:06
Quote:
Oh, and they are going to nerf mining too - missed that.
i.e. lets go nerf crazy to fix our game rather than address the real issues.
To Tentimes:
I'm assuming your IQ is less than or equal to 70, which is borderline mental retardation.
They aren't NERFING everything, they're merely adding to them or changing minute details about them TO MAKE THE UNIVERSE BETTER.
To the EVE Online Community:
Honestly, I think CCP is finally getting on track as far as fixing the EVE universe and adding features is concerned.
/emote thinks Tentimes should lose everything in his character (ships, isk, skill points) just for being an idiot.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:38:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Edited by: Nirvy on 04/11/2003 18:28:27
Jash,
I agree that this should ahve been implimented a long long time ago. but CCP cannot just decide to impliment it now with out some find of faction reset.
How exactly were we to know CCP would suddenly decide to impliment these faction/stations. Seriously the CA/SA/FA/NVA/CFS/GW alliances all stand to lose their homes.
What the hell do CCP expect us to do? All move back into Empire space because 90% of us hunt every rat there is for loot.
Player owned stations wont be here till Tech3, which could be 6 months down the line, chances are they will cost 100's of billions each. This would also mean i can no longer hunt for loot for my tempest, and i REFUSE to use that abomonation of a trade channel CCP are delusional enough to think is all we need.
What will happen to all my Corps assets in Angels stations? will we wake up one day unable to dock to retrieve it?
a LOT of people are waiting for this patch to see if CCP royal **** it up, they had REALLY ebtter know what they are doing this time, other wise it wont just be one or 2 people quitting, it will be 100's maybe 1000's.
Honest answer, Nirvy? I expect CCP to actually listen to people telling them they can't implement such a feature until the ability to at least build a mobile refinery, mobile dock and mobile factory are in game. Then give a month's fair warning to give people time to:
1) Acquire the outpost modules necessary
2) Build the outposts
3) Relocate their assets out of the npc stations.
I expected this a long time ago. I don't and won't store anything of value in a Thukker Mix factory because killing Angel NPCs tank your Thukker Tribe faction standing.
The issue concerning loot is another issue entirely. Given the fact that NPC pirates are the best source for modules and bounties, I'd also expect the NPC pirate corporations to be a little more lenient in enforcing their docking policies. Consider essentially consider people destroying their ships and occupational hazard.
Perhaps linking the faction hits to who starts shooting first, ie: people must wait for the pirates to actually land a hit before firing and taking the subsequent faction loss.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Rath Amon
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:41:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Why not? If I shoot back at the Amarr shooting me everytime I pass through Amarr space, I'll take another faction hit. Nevermind having the Amarr sentry guns tear my ship a new tailpipe for that.
Your standing with Amarr must be very low. Even at 0 standing with Sansha's Nation or Guristas their ships will attack you. From the moment your new character tries to mine in a 0.8 system or lower you begin to lose pirate standing just by defending your ship. They can't change just one aspect of the system (npc faction standings being meaningful) while ignoring another aspect that directly affects the first (all npc pirate faction being KOS all the time).
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:51:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Nirvy on 04/11/2003 18:28:27
Jash,
I agree that this should ahve been implimented a long long time ago. but CCP cannot just decide to impliment it now with out some find of faction reset.
How exactly were we to know CCP would suddenly decide to impliment these faction/stations. Seriously the CA/SA/FA/NVA/CFS/GW alliances all stand to lose their homes.
What the hell do CCP expect us to do? All move back into Empire space because 90% of us hunt every rat there is for loot.
Player owned stations wont be here till Tech3, which could be 6 months down the line, chances are they will cost 100's of billions each. This would also mean i can no longer hunt for loot for my tempest, and i REFUSE to use that abomonation of a trade channel CCP are delusional enough to think is all we need.
What will happen to all my Corps assets in Angels stations? will we wake up one day unable to dock to retrieve it?
a LOT of people are waiting for this patch to see if CCP royal **** it up, they had REALLY ebtter know what they are doing this time, other wise it wont just be one or 2 people quitting, it will be 100's maybe 1000's.
Honest answer, Nirvy? I expect CCP to actually listen to people telling them they can't implement such a feature until the ability to at least build a mobile refinery, mobile dock and mobile factory are in game. Then give a month's fair warning to give people time to:
1) Acquire the outpost modules necessary
2) Build the outposts
3) Relocate their assets out of the npc stations.
I expected this a long time ago. I don't and won't store anything of value in a Thukker Mix factory because killing Angel NPCs tank your Thukker Tribe faction standing.
The issue concerning loot is another issue entirely. Given the fact that NPC pirates are the best source for modules and bounties, I'd also expect the NPC pirate corporations to be a little more lenient in enforcing their docking policies. Consider essentially consider people destroying their ships and occupational hazard.
Perhaps linking the faction hits to who starts shooting first, ie: people must wait for the pirates to actually land a hit before firing and taking the subsequent faction loss.
Sadly my faith in CCP is getting lower and lower 
There are so many things that could go wrong here, mining in my home region of curse could be tricky if i cant kill the attacking rats.
I have done 250 Agent missions, each of which has lowered my status to the pirate factions.
From what i gather a Player Station will take weeks to build, and cost 100's of Billion. Kinda hard to accomodate the 60 corp plus alliances such as CA/FA/SA isnt it?
Also if the alliances are limited to only one or 2 stations, all the combat will focus around those 2 stations, and not the whole regions as it currently does.
Your ideas are decent, but will CCP think of them? God knows Many people might not like the alliances, but there must be 300-400 corps in the top 4 alliances combined, and even taking an average of 3 people a corp..thats a lot of people.
Like i said, that particular patch will be the decision patch for me, and no dounbt for many others. If they do it right, then great i'll have restored faith in CCP. If they mess this up however...buh bye
Mercenary | The Azath |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:57:00 -
[42]
I just think the way NPC pirate factions "act" will change.
CCP must implement meaningful sovereignity regions for NPC factions or their entire vaunted storyline is fubar'd.
They have no choice but to put in standings/factions that are meaningful with meaningful consequences.
If they don't the game ends "now".
The question is "how" without destroying some of the playerbase.
First thing that springs to mind for me is that not every station in region X belongs to the same faction/corporation and that there will surely be varrying ranges of standing-for-access.
Exclusion from docking may be the second most severe (fired upon if you go near being the worst).
This leaves a whole range to be toyed with.. from various modular access (refinery, factory, research, market, insurance) down to and including variable charges based on standing (more expensive the more dubious you are to that faction/corp).
But staying ina Guristas Station using Guristas facilities whilst killing Guristas all day - it has to end for EVE to have any immersion at all.
"END" doesn't have to be black and white though... there is plenty of room for lots of grey.
Bottomline: At some point those who have claimed corporation factional space and using the corporation facilities of the very NPCs they hunt - those people will face some measure of change.
This was nevitable and foreseeable...some of us have been prediciting it and actingl long term with regards to it, since day 1.
It isnt a shock.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.04 18:59:00 -
[43]
Again, get people designated to handle the different aspects, after all isn't alliances all about people filling niches to be self-reliant as a whole?
If you could do everything yourself that I'd consider a far worse failure.
This is good news.
Convert Stations
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:01:00 -
[44]
Quote:
If they don't the game ends "now".
Don't you mean "Soon(tm)"?
Quote:
This was nevitable and foreseeable...some of us have been prediciting it and actingl long term with regards to it, since day 1.
It isnt a shock.
Yup.
Took them long enough too =\
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:32:00 -
[45]
Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte.
Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear!
This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that.
Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries 
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:46:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte.
Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear!
This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that.
Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries
Please translate...I think he's not a native English speaker and I only got part of that.
PS If you think this means you will have safer access to 0.0 space you are wrong.
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:47:00 -
[47]
It would merely be a switch back to how it was originally. When TTi originally based at venal (Yes, before anyone was there), Gurista turrets fired on alot of TTi peeps because they were hunting Guristas. That feature got switched off, just because its unreasonable to have it on when player owned stations arent available. But when they are, it makes perfectly good sense that factions shoot you if you shoot them.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Tobruk
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:49:00 -
[48]
My god, think of the bistot mining ops that currently have to go 10+ jumps to a station (pirate station). If the faction system were 'fixed', it could be horrifying. I don't think they can implement the faction system without tech3 personally.
----------------------------------------------
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:50:00 -
[49]
tech3 (you mean stations) or mobile refineries.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:54:00 -
[50]
Quote:
It would merely be a switch back to how it was originally. When TTi originally based at venal (Yes, before anyone was there), Gurista turrets fired on alot of TTi peeps because they were hunting Guristas. That feature got switched off, just because its unreasonable to have it on when player owned stations arent available. But when they are, it makes perfectly good sense that factions shoot you if you shoot them.
Agreed but they would have to wait untill you can build them and give ample warning. Then yeah it makes sense. I think the thing that bothers a lot of people is that sometimes stuff here isn't given the documentation it should.
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Tobruk
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Posted - 2003.11.04 19:58:00 -
[51]
Quote:
tech3 (you mean stations) or mobile refineries.
Both. Either would prevent some poor hauler from having to go 35 jumps through 0.0 space.
----------------------------------------------
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2003.11.04 20:06:00 -
[52]
Lets consider what your saying, who shoots first! When you started you thought the object was to kill pirates. Now its making alliances with those whom you wish to please. Consider now you want to increase your standing with the bad guys guess what; you now have BS bad guys you have to kill to raise your faction(Concord or any empire state).
Ohh by the way the faction will be tied directly to agents and thier corp. If you consider the station and which corp owns it you might want an office in, you might have to donate hard earned cash you where going to build that BS with going to a NPC corp to stay there safe ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.04 20:20:00 -
[53]
Exactly why should Stain be worried?
Anyone who has spent time killing Sansha Nation pirates in Stain probably has a neutral standing toward True Power.
I know I have.
http://www.frothy.org/images/stands1.jpg
http://www.frothy.org/images/stands2.jpg
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.04 20:33:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Sadly my faith in CCP is getting lower and lower
There are so many things that could go wrong here, mining in my home region of curse could be tricky if i cant kill the attacking rats.
I have done 250 Agent missions, each of which has lowered my status to the pirate factions.
From what i gather a Player Station will take weeks to build, and cost 100's of Billion. Kinda hard to accomodate the 60 corp plus alliances such as CA/FA/SA isnt it?
Also if the alliances are limited to only one or 2 stations, all the combat will focus around those 2 stations, and not the whole regions as it currently does.
Your ideas are decent, but will CCP think of them? God knows Many people might not like the alliances, but there must be 300-400 corps in the top 4 alliances combined, and even taking an average of 3 people a corp..thats a lot of people.
Like i said, that particular patch will be the decision patch for me, and no dounbt for many others. If they do it right, then great i'll have restored faith in CCP. If they mess this up however...buh bye
Faith? Why do you think that ruckus over the CSM questions got started?
Programmers and developers are great at bringing their ideas into form through coding. But it's rare that I've met anyone who designs anything for use by others that don't share a common flaw:
A blindspot towards their own designs.
If CCP doesn't communicate with the players the chances are higher that they will not get it right. Or they will lose precious time trying to do it all themselves. Same way we're having this conversation concerning the possible fallout of the changes and how to avoid them, the developers are probably doing the same. But they might not see all the pitfalls that 20 people discussing the same feature might forsee.
You know the best way to design something to be childproof? Give it to a child and watch what he does.
Morkt is right that many people anticipated this change and to steps to avoid the fallout. But at the same time there has to be allowances for those who didn't suspect such things were possible. And there has to be a viable method to continue working. I think the change to a modular design for station building was probably to offset the high costs and time required to create a fully fledged station.
So the question is do they realize that alliances and large corporations that have long since left Empire space require not just the mobile refineries, but mobile factories and ship docking modules all at the same time?
Dunno. They aren't speaking usuall till it gets too late. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kaylon Syi
|
Posted - 2003.11.04 21:17:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte.
Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear!
This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that.
Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries
Please translate...I think he's not a native English speaker and I only got part of that.
PS If you think this means you will have safer access to 0.0 space you are wrong.
I am from Florida and am 100% USDA baby. English is my First language, thank you. Basically all over the forums you can read posts commenting on low security folk with Big Bad Battleships that don't NPC hunt as much or PvP. Well now you know why.. most of us take the game seriously and don't just jump in half-assed and blast everything we see.. NPC or Not.
We stick to Empire Space more often then not and are called Carebears ( I guess thats an MMORPG slang... this is my first MMORPG btw ) and are harshly degraded by PvPers. So I am stating that all you morons that are crying me a river about this welcomed,Logical move to make NPCs more a role in this game than they are now... are the True Carebears..... and aren't welcoming change that is needed. You have stuck yourself in a position that might render you useless. And now I have to wade thru a river of tears.
Let CCP make Eve into what they envisioned it. If you don't like it... by all means Leave... your tears won't be missed... Carebear.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.04 21:26:00 -
[56]
Quote:
...
Let CCP make Eve into what they envisioned it. If you don't like it... by all means Leave... your tears won't be missed... Carebear.
Okay Kaylon Syi, when would you like Tank CEO to stop by and blast you into atoms inside Empire Space?
Cause originally, the idea behind Concord and Empire Security forces was their response time and the makeup of the response fleet was designated by the sec rating of the solar system you were in.
That's right, during beta when I carried a -10.0 sec rating people could fly through even 1.0 solar systems...in a Rifter. They couldn't stop flying for very long, but then it wouldn't take long for a wing of Caracals loaded with torps to dust your pretty battleship with no weapons and (just betting the odds) terrible shields because of the 2+ mwds you'd have installed to offset all those cargo expanders on the low slot .
But hey you've been accomodated so to hell with everyone else's concerns, right?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
dalman
|
Posted - 2003.11.04 21:33:00 -
[57]
Quote:
yeah - that specific bit though....
Wake-up call to those in Venal, Stain etc...
get fixing those factions!
Already done that.
And I'm pretty sure everyone in my corp has a positive standing towards Sansha's Nation.
As for what is wrong in EVE: Read the thread in my signature.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2003.11.04 21:36:00 -
[58]
Everyone is worried about the negative standings, but there must be some "advantages" in having high standings with a faction.
I wonder what kind of services you'll have from these factions with a standing >9 =)
Anyone knows ?
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.04 21:37:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Everyone is worried about the negative standings, but there must be some "advantages" in having high standings with a faction.
I wonder what kind of services you'll have from these factions with a standing >9 =)
Anyone knows ?
Cheaper services, better items available from NPC market.......
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
dalman
|
Posted - 2003.11.04 21:42:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Everyone is worried about the negative standings, but there must be some "advantages" in having high standings with a faction.
I wonder what kind of services you'll have from these factions with a standing >9 =)
Anyone knows ?
Well, everyone who has never done an agent mission have +10 standing towards "good" factions
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Kin Hanyerec
|
Posted - 2003.11.04 21:54:00 -
[61]
Quote:
Well, everyone who has never done an agent mission have +10 standing towards "good" factions
hmm i can't understand what you mean... agent mission lower some standings ? it seems a little absurd to me
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.04 21:56:00 -
[62]
yeah..
assuming they have the corporate stanings working you get the full potential range of cheap-expensive for any and all services.
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Rath Amon
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:05:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Rath Amon on 04/11/2003 22:07:08
Quote:
Exactly why should Stain be worried?
Anyone who has spent time killing Sansha Nation pirates in Stain probably has a neutral standing toward True Power.
I know I have.
Eh? I have -7.5 Sansha's Nation Faction rating and -7.5 True Power Corporation rating from defending my ship and from hunting and I haven't even hunted in over a week. I have positive True Creations Corporation rating from agent missions and they run the stations, but the Sansha's navy and gate guns will certainly try to destroy almost everyone who has hunted in Stain if they just turn these Faction ratings on.
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SUNchaser
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Posted - 2003.11.04 22:29:00 -
[64]
I have a negative standing against just about every pirate faction and all I do is mine. I wish the developers would just get the bugs fixed and leave us the F$#K alone. This is susposed to be a "player created" universe not one driven here and there by heavy handed developers playing god.
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:18:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Quote:
Well, everyone who has never done an agent mission have +10 standing towards "good" factions
hmm i can't understand what you mean... agent mission lower some standings ? it seems a little absurd to me
Because I had 10.0 standing towards 7 factions and several other at 6+ from killing NPCs.
Then the damn agent bug then set almost all of them back to 2.0 when I did a mission.
So many people like me that did not get hit by the agent bug has +10 towards most factions.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2003.11.04 23:35:00 -
[66]
Quote:
It would merely be a switch back to how it was originally. When TTi originally based at venal (Yes, before anyone was there), Gurista turrets fired on alot of TTi peeps because they were hunting Guristas. That feature got switched off, just because its unreasonable to have it on when player owned stations arent available. But when they are, it makes perfectly good sense that factions shoot you if you shoot them.
Unbelievable Luther, I think thats the first time in the game I have agreed with you!
Basically, yep, for x-npc(pirate) stations to lockout and fire on players in 0.0 there needs to be an alternative, and that alternative has to be player owned stations.
Forcing the alliances back into empire is rubbish.
And rubbish for immersion too.
Because lets face it. If the NVA (or SA or CA or FA or whoever) was locked out by a station (in paradigm) we would board the place, shoot the npc pirates ... and take it over.
We have all killed millions of NPC pirates ...
Any regional alliance has the power to oust these guys in paradigm.
JF Public Forum |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:49:00 -
[67]
Edited by: j0sephine on 04/11/2003 23:50:37
"Because lets face it. If the NVA (or SA or CA or FA or whoever) was locked out by a station (in paradigm) we would board the place, shoot the npc pirates ... and take it over.
We have all killed millions of NPC pirates ...
Any regional alliance has the power to oust these guys in paradigm."
... And yet they just keep coming. :s
Easy to talk about shooting the poor NPCs when they appear in uncoordinated groups of six-dozen at time, max.
But picture all NPCs from all Venal asteroid belts together, swarming 'your' stations,
... tearing apart your battleships with sheer numbers,
... and always coming back for more, no matter how many of them you kill.
It's _Aliens_, revisited. Just a matter of short time before they win attrition war with any player alliance, if fought in such manner ;)
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SS Vegito
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Posted - 2003.11.04 23:57:00 -
[68]
Quote:
Exactly why should Stain be worried?
Anyone who has spent time killing Sansha Nation pirates in Stain probably has a neutral standing toward True Power.
I know I have.
http://www.frothy.org/images/stands1.jpg
http://www.frothy.org/images/stands2.jpg
Thats because its all 0.0 Same reason i havent dropped at all for my Serpentis rating in Fountain.
So I fail to see how this affects us who only kill them in 0.0
*goes back to farming serps*
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.05 01:49:00 -
[69]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe now you guys will stop daunting us Players with uber battleships with 0.1 security standings who have been waiting for CCP to actually implement things that were foreseable. If you Leave because of this... Buh Bye... don't the the hangar door hit your toosh on the way out. Obvioulsy you don't know what a MMORPG is and change is not your forte.
Good riddance to the true Eve Carebear!
This is good news because now the Universe that is open ended has Consequence for actions rendered. Wow... could it be this is moving toward a more realistic sim... Wow imagine that.
Well Done CCP... Now what about Mob Refineries
Please translate...I think he's not a native English speaker and I only got part of that.
PS If you think this means you will have safer access to 0.0 space you are wrong.
I am from Florida and am 100% USDA baby. English is my First language, thank you. Basically all over the forums you can read posts commenting on low security folk with Big Bad Battleships that don't NPC hunt as much or PvP. Well now you know why.. most of us take the game seriously and don't just jump in half-assed and blast everything we see.. NPC or Not.
We stick to Empire Space more often then not and are called Carebears ( I guess thats an MMORPG slang... this is my first MMORPG btw ) and are harshly degraded by PvPers. So I am stating that all you morons that are crying me a river about this welcomed,Logical move to make NPCs more a role in this game than they are now... are the True Carebears..... and aren't welcoming change that is needed. You have stuck yourself in a position that might render you useless. And now I have to wade thru a river of tears.
Let CCP make Eve into what they envisioned it. If you don't like it... by all means Leave... your tears won't be missed... Carebear.
First of all boy you are an odd little man aren't you? You seem to be really angry about something. By low security folk do you mean people with low sec ratings or people who live in low sec? Hmm you seem to think that EVE was meant to be NPC driven but CCP has been pretty clear about this being a player driven system haven't they? PvP players won't be useless they will just be more likely to turn to piracy and we all know how much you guys in Empire space like that. Of course you all saw how the game was going to develop and none of the scordite commandos are afraid of losing their bttleships. If things shape out like many of us fear you will like it least of all you just don't know it yet.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.05 02:15:00 -
[70]
On the contrary you seem to be the one upset with the outside risk of losing control over the sovereign systems you cakewalked all over, how very furry of you.
Threatening massive piracy on a playerbase unable to sustain such a herd of instagrats will only have the pirates turn on eachother, it will work itself out naturally. Again, threats when faced with a challenge, furry.
Convert Stations
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.05 02:50:00 -
[71]
It¦s more than 5 months after release until we get to see the first real content-patch. What makes you guys think that standing-based services will make it into the game before februrary 2004?
Relax... you¦ll have plenty of time to fix your standings.
Mai's Idealog |
Maud Dib
|
Posted - 2003.11.05 03:35:00 -
[72]
Quote:
On the contrary you seem to be the one upset with the outside risk of losing control over the sovereign systems you cakewalked all over, how very furry of you.
Threatening massive piracy on a playerbase unable to sustain such a herd of instagrats will only have the pirates turn on eachother, it will work itself out naturally. Again, threats when faced with a challenge, furry.
Hmmm "Threats"....no threat..if the alliance PvP option is taken away that will leave one other.
The pirates will turn on each other..you mean like now?
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.11.05 06:09:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Faction ratings will prolly be reset when the faction system is implemented.
I hope not.
Security ratings haven't been nullified too after major changes.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Molly
|
Posted - 2003.11.05 06:11:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Good God
So because im in curse, and hunt the angels around curse a lot, im not going to be able to dock anywhere near curse due to my low standings???
Hell i have VERY low standing to all the pirate NPC's as i hunt in all the areas for loot.
If one day i d/l a patch and find i can no longer dock at 0.0 stations, and my corp and alliance are in the same boat, you WILL see mass people leaving Eve.
I really hope im reading this wrong :(
Cry me a river. That's what exactly happened to a lot of player pirates too.
They had more risk, less reward and now it's time for you NPC chain spawning people to have your docking requests denied and full sentry guns blazing!
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
Molly
|
Posted - 2003.11.05 06:15:00 -
[75]
Quote:
Exactly why should Stain be worried?
Anyone who has spent time killing Sansha Nation pirates in Stain probably has a neutral standing toward True Power.
I know I have.
http://www.frothy.org/images/stands1.jpg
http://www.frothy.org/images/stands2.jpg
Exploiters.
--
Kasha > Mastema, face the reality: All the juicy dots are gone.
-- |
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