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The Abaddon's cap issues

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
kagrack Gallente Sector 7	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:25:00 - [1] while i was looking through the new rig blueprints i came accross one that -15% of your energy turrets cap and it got me thinking maybe there is a reason the abaddon is like it is maybe ccp made it like that so we can choose weather or not we'd prefer a full gank setup on it i.e. designed to fire for a very short time yet maximising damage using the new rigs or a more fleet able ship using rigs to lessen the cap usage of are lasers? The deveil couldnt be bothered to get up this morning so he sent me instead to say hello
Reite Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:26:00 - [2] Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon...
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:29:00 - [3] Originally by: kagrack while i was looking through the new rig blueprints i came accross one that -15% of your energy turrets cap and it got me thinking maybe there is a reason the abaddon is like it is maybe ccp made it like that so we can choose weather or not we'd prefer a full gank setup on it i.e. designed to fire for a very short time yet maximising damage using the new rigs or a more fleet able ship using rigs to lessen the cap usage of are lasers? See, this is why people with no or little experience with Amarr should be gagged on Amarr issues. -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.26 09:32:00 - [4] I wish people would stop saying "use rigs" on the abaddon, all the other ships get rigs too, it's not like the abaddon gets an advantage there. Using rigs to make up for the obvious shortcomings of this ship just brings it into line with the other tier three ships, who still have their rig slots free.
Arimai hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:06:00 - [5] Originally by: ***c I wish people would stop saying "use rigs" on the abaddon, all the other ships get rigs too, it's not like the abaddon gets an advantage there. Using rigs to make up for the obvious shortcomings of this ship just brings it into line with the other tier three ships, who still have their rig slots free. And most people do not* consider the price of rigs. Best rigs wont be cheap. I'm guesstimating a 25-30M price tag for each one.
chaos98	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Arimai Originally by: ***c I wish people would stop saying "use rigs" on the abaddon, all the other ships get rigs too, it's not like the abaddon gets an advantage there. Using rigs to make up for the obvious shortcomings of this ship just brings it into line with the other tier three ships, who still have their rig slots free. And most people do not* consider the price of rigs. Best rigs wont be cheap. I'm guesstimating a 25-30M price tag for each one. i tried to insure an abbadon yesterday, came up with 180 mil payout on platinum. When you consider that spending another 75 mil on rigs doesn't seem like much.
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:24:00 - [7] It seems like a lot hen I can buy and fit a geddon for the insurance costs alone, have similar damage and not run out of cap.
Sonorra Baki	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:38:00 - [8] I tried the abaddon yesterday. With Tach 2 i could shoot for 1 min 10 secs, then cap died. Tach 2 used something like 105 Cap/s. Then i tried a megapulse setup vs a Drake with HAS launchers. Megapulse 2 used around 82 cap/s. Thats round 1.8 x what 800 charges gives, not counting reload. The drake had 17K hardened shield and i couldnt tank it with cycling only 1 LAR T2 on a full tank setup. I had to cycle second LAR T2. after 2 mins i was struggling with cap, and i recon if we had continued, the drake would have killed my aba after 5 mins. Im 2 y.o and have dedicated 90% of my skills to amarr. Basically i thought the split bonus on aba, was fun at first. What i does though, is even though you make a low tier guns setup with a strong tank, you CANT fire back if you want to live. So keep your hands of those F buttons if someone is shooting at you! I do have medium T2 projectiles though, and i wonder if i could do a nasty trick bait setup for small support ships. Disco aba might also be the most encountered setup in the future. I wont cry though, because i was clever enough to start a caldari char 1 year ago, so while this char hybernates, i will get to play with some of the best stuff. ___ Somewhere in EvE in 2007 Ok, balls to the wall gents, here we go. Primary target is... OMG TEHY HAVE DRAEK!s AND ROWKS!!!! RRRRRUUUUNN
Tash Murkon Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:47:00 - [9] And the guy in charge for all that thinks it's still okay get a ******* clue, you know who you are
CptEagle Gallente Stargate Command...	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:54:00 - [10] Changing the RoF bonus to a damage bonus will only decrease dps by a tiny bit, but it will decrease cap use a good bit. Good idea?

Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:56:00 - [11] Originally by: CptEagle Changing the RoF bonus to a damage bonus will only decrease dps by a tiny bit, but it will decrease cap use a good bit. Good idea? It would increase alpha strike by quite a bit. I wouldn't mind that but I know a whole minmatar army who would. Forsch Defender of the empire
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.10.26 10:58:00 - [12] Originally by: CptEagle Changing the RoF bonus to a damage bonus will only decrease dps by a tiny bit, but it will decrease cap use a good bit. Good idea? I would prefer this kind of bonus.
Aquila Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: CptEagle Changing the RoF bonus to a damage bonus will only decrease dps by a tiny bit, but it will decrease cap use a good bit. Good idea? I would prefer this kind of bonus. Signed Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Reite Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon... geddon have much less powergrid than abaddon so isnt that easy to fit turret rigs. you will need rcu in geddon but not in abaddon It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
DarK STK Scientific	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:08:00 - [15] Perhaps they could also release the tech2 large cap battery and the XL battery & II(as used to be listed in db)
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Reite Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon... Turret rigs have the drawback of +10% powergrid requirement on all turrets. Capacitor rigs have no drawbacks. - What am I listening to?
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Sniser geddon have much less powergrid than abaddon so isnt that easy to fit turret rigs. you will need rcu in geddon but not in abaddon So either the abaddon just made the armageddon obsolete or the abaddon has no purpose over the geddon. Great choice we have here. Forsch Defender of the empire
Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 11:11:00 - [18] after just testing this ship, holy cap drine batman! this thing badly needs that cap drain fixed http://www.stevie.prince.dsl.pipex.com/AloysiusKnight.jpg http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2107/nodecrashsiggb9.jpg Chose one, you must. Two is the way of pure ebilness, and pure ebilness is bad -ReverendM
Reite Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Reite Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon... Turret rigs have the drawback of +10% powergrid requirement on all turrets. Capacitor rigs have no drawbacks. If an arma fits 1 +15% rof rig and 1 +15% dmg rig its guns will use 20% more pg for a total of 2970PG pr gun. 7 Guns will then use 20790PG. With a RCU2 an armageddon has a total of 23718PG. This means the arma with those two rigs will do alot more dmg than a abbadon with 1 cap rig and 1 rof rig. Ofcourse its a different matter on longrange guns, but unless the abbadon got a extra rig slot compared to everyone else its pretty unfair to have to fit a cap rig just to be able to shoot for more than a minute or two.
Sniser 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Reite Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon... Turret rigs have the drawback of +10% powergrid requirement on all turrets. Capacitor rigs have no drawbacks. its 5% drawback with skills It's great being Amarr, ain't it?

Yamaeda	Posted - 2006.10.26 12:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: CptEagle Changing the RoF bonus to a damage bonus will only decrease dps by a tiny bit, but it will decrease cap use a good bit. Good idea? It would increase alpha strike by quite a bit. I wouldn't mind that but I know a whole minmatar army who would. I've calculated on it, it'd put the Abaddon with tachs close, but not above, the minnies in alpha strike. It'll lower the dps with 7% compared to the RoF-bonus while saving 25% cap/minute. It'd still have cap problems making it "gank or tank" as the designers want. Above else it'll give it a clearer and different role from Arma and Apoc. I really want such a change, it's the logical and sane thing to do. /Y
Scordite	Posted - 2006.10.26 13:56:00 - [22] -15% cap use of guns. Not even considering the problems with other ships being able to fit rigs as well.. Do you seriously think -15% cap use of guns is enough to make the ship work? ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.26 14:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Reite Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Reite Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon... Turret rigs have the drawback of +10% powergrid requirement on all turrets. Capacitor rigs have no drawbacks. If an arma fits 1 +15% rof rig and 1 +15% dmg rig its guns will use 20% more pg for a total of 2970PG pr gun. 7 Guns will then use 20790PG. With a RCU2 an armageddon has a total of 23718PG. This means the arma with those two rigs will do alot more dmg than a abbadon with 1 cap rig and 1 rof rig. Ofcourse its a different matter on longrange guns, but unless the abbadon got a extra rig slot compared to everyone else its pretty unfair to have to fit a cap rig just to be able to shoot for more than a minute or two. Yeah, but we only know how many rig slots the ships have, not how many calibration points. As an example, maybe the arma can only fit those two tech 1 rigs, or 3 rigs that aren't even that useful, while the abaddon could fit those two rigs in the tech 2 version, plus a third that increases cap or something. I'm betting that the higher tier battleships will be able to fit more and better rigs. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Reite Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Magunus Originally by: Reite Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Reite Well where the abbadon use cap rigs the geddon can use dmg rigs and still be more usefull than the abbadon... Turret rigs have the drawback of +10% powergrid requirement on all turrets. Capacitor rigs have no drawbacks. If an arma fits 1 +15% rof rig and 1 +15% dmg rig its guns will use 20% more pg for a total of 2970PG pr gun. 7 Guns will then use 20790PG. With a RCU2 an armageddon has a total of 23718PG. This means the arma with those two rigs will do alot more dmg than a abbadon with 1 cap rig and 1 rof rig. Ofcourse its a different matter on longrange guns, but unless the abbadon got a extra rig slot compared to everyone else its pretty unfair to have to fit a cap rig just to be able to shoot for more than a minute or two. Yeah, but we only know how many rig slots the ships have, not how many calibration points. As an example, maybe the arma can only fit those two tech 1 rigs, or 3 rigs that aren't even that useful, while the abaddon could fit those two rigs in the tech 2 version, plus a third that increases cap or something. I'm betting that the higher tier battleships will be able to fit more and better rigs. If thats the case then that is stupid too. Do amarr have to pay a extra 10-50mill(I have no idea how much they are gonna cost tbh) Just to be able to use the ship? And ships die so fast in fleetbattles that this, if it is any expensive at all, isnt worth it.
Kyguard Fire Mandrill Astrophobics	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:32:00 - [25] I wouldn't mind keeping the ROF bonus, because that is what amarr are known for. Ships with RoF boni. Has a sort of originality to it Now, if you don't want to change that to fix the Abbadon, lasers themselves need to be completely reworked or the Abbadon's cap increased.. a lot. === It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm) [Insert badass sig to match ego here]
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.26 15:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Magunus Yeah, but we only know how many rig slots the ships have, not how many calibration points. As an example, maybe the arma can only fit those two tech 1 rigs, or 3 rigs that aren't even that useful, while the abaddon could fit those two rigs in the tech 2 version, plus a third that increases cap or something. I'm betting that the higher tier battleships will be able to fit more and better rigs. First of all your name is spelled wrong, its supposed to be MAGNUS. Unless you have a relalt crappy imagination. Considering your post I think its the latter. What if/what if argumetns doesnt belong in these threads ok? -------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.26 17:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Magunus Yeah, but we only know how many rig slots the ships have, not how many calibration points. As an example, maybe the arma can only fit those two tech 1 rigs, or 3 rigs that aren't even that useful, while the abaddon could fit those two rigs in the tech 2 version, plus a third that increases cap or something. I'm betting that the higher tier battleships will be able to fit more and better rigs. First of all your name is spelled wrong, its supposed to be MAGNUS. Unless you have a relalt crappy imagination. Considering your post I think its the latter. What if/what if argumetns doesnt belong in these threads ok? A) It based off an old Roman spelling. Besides the point, of course ... um. Godar. B) 'What if' most certainly belongs here. You appear to be saying 'I will set it up this way, and if it doesn't work, it's the devs fault'. In fact, many of the posts in this very thread are nothing BUT 'what if's. What if you set it up this way? What if you do that? Based on your response, it appears that you're not interested in any type of logical and adult discussion of the matter, though. I'll keep that in mind and completely ignore any suggestions or comments you make from this point on. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Anjor Minmatar VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.26 18:26:00 - [28] /signed for a damage bonus over RoF bonus to help with the cap issue. Would also make it a nice Tach Alpha fleet boat. Also when comparing whats wrong with something, never use something like rigs to balance it, you should not require an outside source that leaves 1 ship to a disadvantage to balance it against another. MMO's have fallen apart due to misguided issues like this. I would further add that if it doesn't have a cap laser use bonus to give it a massive cap, or a high recharge rate to help combat against nos/laser use. Especially in the role of being nos'd and nearly defenseless against such a well exploited tactic. Yes I call it an exploited tactic as it uses very little way in sp and player skill. __________________________________________________ It's great being amar...wait im Minmatar that plays amarr..Great im really ****ed... [i]Yes im Minmatar, but I'm a freed slave that has Amarr
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Anjor <snip> Also when comparing whats wrong with something, never use something like rigs to balance it, you should not require an outside source that leaves 1 ship to a disadvantage to balance it against another. MMO's have fallen apart due to misguided issues like this. <snip> Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree with this. This game has used modules to balance the game since it's inception. CPU, PG, slot layout, cap, cap recharge, ship bonuses... they're all balancing agents, not to mention the modules and weapons that each ship is designed to use via bonuses. Right now, amarr and minmatar appear to be at the bottom of the pile. How to fix this? Well, they can't very well up the CPU or PG, there are limits, there. They could increase cap and recharge on this ship, but what about giving the players the option of deciding for themselves? Give them a new resource, like CPU and PG. We could call it... calibration points! Caldari and Gallente could have the bottom of the barrel when it comes to calibration points, the minmatar the most because of their crap DOT and apparent ability to make ships out of whatever happens to be laying around, and amarr the next highest. There you have it. Minmatar have the lowest DOT, but you'll never know what kind of rigs he has fitted until it's too late. Is he using velocity rigs and autocannons? Damage rigs and artillery? Amarr have better DOT, and could have almost as many options as the minmatar do as far as rigs are concerned. You could use cap rigs and last longer, or damage rigs and build a super geddon. Rigs really do appear to me just another way to balance and boost races without screwing up the game as a whole. Just add 'CP' (calibration points) to the old tried and true 'PG' and 'CPU' list. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.26 19:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Magunus Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Magunus Yeah, but we only know how many rig slots the ships have, not how many calibration points. As an example, maybe the arma can only fit those two tech 1 rigs, or 3 rigs that aren't even that useful, while the abaddon could fit those two rigs in the tech 2 version, plus a third that increases cap or something. I'm betting that the higher tier battleships will be able to fit more and better rigs. First of all your name is spelled wrong, its supposed to be MAGNUS. Unless you have a relalt crappy imagination. Considering your post I think its the latter. What if/what if argumetns doesnt belong in these threads ok? A) It based off an old Roman spelling. Besides the point, of course ... um. Godar. B) 'What if' most certainly belongs here. You appear to be saying 'I will set it up this way, and if it doesn't work, it's the devs fault'. In fact, many of the posts in this very thread are nothing BUT 'what if's. What if you set it up this way? What if you do that? Based on your response, it appears that you're not interested in any type of logical and adult discussion of the matter, though. I'll keep that in mind and completely ignore any suggestions or comments you make from this point on. A) off topic, it's Magnus in latin



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