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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:07:00 -
[1]
Harbringer is a pain to fit. Im with AWU 4 and fit heavy pulses + ab + 800 plate + small rep its my max this is even counting turret rigs with make it worse. I tried fit a cap booster but there isnt enough powergrid
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 11:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sniser on 27/10/2006 11:02:43
Originally by: Toaster Oven Edited by: Toaster Oven on 27/10/2006 10:33:28 And as to why Harbinger is not up to par. Compare with Hurricane using some viable setups (using Kali ammo stats)
Harbinger 7x Heavy Pulse II w/ Conflag + 1x Heat Sink II + 5x Valkyrie II = 601.2 DPS Hurricane 7x 220mm II w/ Hail + 1x Gyrostab II + 1x Hammerhead II + 4x Hobgoblin II = 579.8 DPS
So what does the Harbinger sacrifice for that paltry dmg advantage? Hurricane can fit MAR II + 1600mm Tungsten + 10mn MWD II + Med Nos II. Harbinger only has room for MAR II and 10MN AB II. No room for plate or med NOS. So Hurricane tanks better, goes faster, much more cap, much less vulnerable to tracking disruptors, and has smaller sig radius. Tbh why would you choose to fly Harbinger?
And what if Harbinger dropped down to Focused Medium Pulse II? Harbinger 7x Focused Medium Pulse II w/ Conflag + 1x Heat Sink II + 5x Valkyrie II = 536.8 DPS
Now it can fit a 1600mm plate, but it does less DPS than Hurricane. Whether you choose to fit MWD or AB, it still can't fill it's last high slot with a Med NOS. And it still has less cap available compared to Hurricane. Simply outclassed.
I had the same problem with my Harbringer if i fit heavy pulse i only have enough pg to fit ab and a single MAR t2 or 1 plate 800mm but SAR with AWU4. I cant understand why Tux dont see amarr fits are really hard to do in nearly every ship(no T2) :S
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Aramendel IMO the harbringer is ok, *exept* that it needs 1 less high and 1 more low.
so you want they take out one turret and less pg for more cpu? nice! obviously you arent amarr if you want they nerf it lol. There is no way the ship dont have an utility high slot since all bc tier2 ships have it. They current dps balance is based on drones
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.27 12:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Myrrdin
Originally by: Sniser Edited by: Sniser on 27/10/2006 11:02:43
I had the same problem with my Harbringer if i fit heavy pulse i only have enough pg to fit ab and a single MAR t2 or 1 plate 800mm but SAR with AWU4. I cant understand why Tux dont see amarr fits are really hard to do in nearly every ship(no T2) :S
Hmm, managed to get on the test server last night and fitted a harbinger with 7 Heavy Pulse II's, 10MN AB II, Selection of EW, MAR II, 3 HSII's and t2 energized membranes. Had about 150 grid left over after that (to use for the grid increase on turrets demanded by Rigs!).
My AW upgrades is currently at level 4 though.
and your cap last enough long with only a MAR and no cap booster? Do you know hurricane can fit 1600mm plate + MAR and do nearly same dps than harbringer? So their guns dont use cap and can tank better?
with ab you dont dictate the range. Without cap booster you will be out of cap in nearly no time with no plate on setup its much less armor than others bc
do you know to let your MAR t2 rep as much as a 1600mm plate the fight need last 140seconds to be equal? 1600mm plate gives around 5000HP mar t2 reps 35.5hp/s do maths If focused medium pulse t2 in a harbringer werent that bad in dps then would be no problem but they arent as good as 220mm fitted in a hurricane
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 12:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 27/10/2006 12:31:23
Originally by: Sniser so you want they take out one turret and less pg for more cpu? nice! obviously you arent amarr if you want they nerf it lol. There is no way the ship dont have an utility high slot since all bc tier2 ships have it. They current dps balance is based on drones
It cannot use the utility high slot (which is pretty much limited for nos anyway) due to grid issues in either case. And just because all tier 2 BCs currently have one does not mean all *have* to have one. For the tier 1 BCs all exept the Brutix have one too. Did not stop the Brutix having 7 turrets & 7 highs.
Typically amarr ships have 1 more low than other ships of the same class, this is not the case for the tier 2 BCs. And for the harbringer 1 more low would be far more useful than 1 non-turret high.
if you cant use the utility slot then you are agree with me and there isnt enough powergrid
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 14:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Grimpak *agrees with Goumindong*
mini-geddon ftw \o/
im agree with you and goumindong :P
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 23:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Nyxus Harbinger:
Originally by: Goumingdog According to Toaster Oven, the damage difference between A T2 fitted Harbinger fitting Heavy Pulses and a T2 fitted Hurricane fitting 220's is about 4% DPS in favor of the Harbinger. But in that situation the Hurricane has 637 more powergrid to play around with than the Harbinger and doesnt used cap.
This is a problem. Traditional Amarr ships have more guns (dps) and armor tanking via extra low slots.
Change Harbinger to 7/4/7 and add 600 more base grid.
This balances it out against the Hurricane and Drake as it will have an extra low (its Amarrffs) and slightly more grid than the Hurricane after fitting comparable weapons. Hurricane will have more cpu.
Nyxus
PS- Myrm needs a bit more love, be it in drones, turrets, dampers, or something else.
Nyxus
YES PLEASE
harbinger problems can be say more loud but not more clear
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.28 09:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
alternatively i suggest this for the harbinger:
8/3/8 slots 8 turrets
obviously grid/cpu/cap may need some tweaks to allow proper fittings here.
very much amarr like, makes use of the last turretspot on the model and at least offers superior damage to make up for the huge capneed/bad damagetype.
4 mids !!!!!!! finally we get a ship with 4 mids !!! dont take it i would love 7/4/7 since im not going to use the utility never but if its not posible then dont touch it and let it remain as 8/4/6!
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.28 23:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rahjadan Shardur yes so the hurricane outdamages the harbinger, but you did not factor in the reload time for ACs. reloade time is more importent now that ships have more hp and you need more ammo to kill them.
you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.29 10:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alek Row Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:49:54 Edited by: Alek Row on 29/10/2006 00:47:17
Originally by: Sniser
you reload, lasers have SHORT falloff and we need change ammo more times. I usually change my ammo 2 times in each fight one when im far and another when im near but maybe i had to change it again for middle range. How many times do you reload? 1? 2?
ACs don't shoot without ammo, and I think projectile reloads take more time than crystal reloads.
Reload time surelly counts on overall DPS when we're talking about projectiles, we can't shoot without ammo and you can shoot without crystals. Not without cap, but without crystals you still can shoot.
Sorry but my t2 crystals gone too. What do you think if my crystals t2 broke and you still have t2 ammo? maybe i can still shoot with t1 ammo but im going to die since i cant do the same dps with my lost
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
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Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.02 22:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: keepiru
Now, on with the graphs!
Current Situation: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
Realistic Boosts: Damage @ Range Cumulative Damage @ 2500m Cumulative Damage @ 5000m
I think they speak for themselves tbh ^_^
those screens are incorrect hurricane isnt using their drones. but harbringer is using them. If you add drones to hurricane they have a lot more high dps
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Sniser
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.11.03 12:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sniser on 03/11/2006 12:16:07 stuff
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
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