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DeWieKat Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.27 07:25:00 - [31] Edited by: DeWieKat on 27/10/2006 07:26:01 a bit strange that this topic comes from dgf exactly at this time... coincidence? anyway, i count myself to those people who allready expressed their opinion in a way that to implement something like time barriers for loggin-off or several limitations to fighting ability after relogging is almost impossible because off situations in real life (RL comes first, even if its hard to understant for some ppl here) or the complexity of the client remote control mechanics via internet, where alot can happen without any influence of the player. id like to aproach differently, instead of taking on ccp, u all should check what¦s allready have been done to deal with logging off or safe spot hinding. there are covert op¦s with probes and there is agression timer. of course ship without agression disappears very quickly but the enemy who came in to fight u wont just stay safespoted without doing anything.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:08:00 - [32] Originally by: Shin Ra If you roam and/or are in a small corp, you have to log in space at the end of a night. There are no other options. When I was in certain big PvP alliance doing frigate roams deep inside enemy space and finding out that I had to quit, it was always fun on next day log on and find your deep inside enemy space and home is far away. Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" To be Kali, or not to be Lagi
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:33:00 - [33] tbh there should be a simple 15min timer when you log off regardless of if you are flagged or where you are. That and if you log off bubbles etc still hold you in place. It's a fairly simple change (just change the existing timers) but would stop alot of the crap that goes on. Of course it doesn't address login traps but that's a whole different problem. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:44:00 - [34] Originally by: DeWieKat Edited by: DeWieKat on 27/10/2006 07:26:01 a bit strange that this topic comes from dgf exactly at this time... coincidence? lol waiting for someone to say something like this, its no coincidence as i have not mentioned any other alliance in this discussion. Lets move on with this as some good points have been raised. Yes the orginal post refers to logging off in hostile space nothing to do with logging off when i bubble or in half structure those are different animals and require a different thread ! froggy
Le Cardinal ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.27 08:49:00 - [35] What i miss is a reply from the devs. They seem to ignore these htreads on purpose. There are dozen of threads about this. Ive always been stupid enough to not log off if i jump in a camp and know i will lose my ship. But i have some pride. Its easy to save a 200m ship with another 200m with fittings if you just log ECP.R killboard
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Wild Rho tbh there should be a simple 15min timer when you log off regardless of if you are flagged or where you are. That and if you log off bubbles etc still hold you in place. It's a fairly simple change (just change the existing timers) but would stop alot of the crap that goes on. Of course it doesn't address login traps but that's a whole different problem. I agree with most of it. That part with bubbles is sort of problematic due to emergency warps /lag / node crashes. Not that i don't support it (atm it's stupid) but i think eve client can't distinguish between ctrl+q and lag. Also probing will be changed and i think it will seriously change safespotting.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.27 09:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Mynas Atoch So I'm sitting there in the D2 interdiction sphere, still jump-cloaked, in a hauler with more than 100m isk of cargo expanders, and I'm thinking .. I can get out of this .. all I have to do is press ctrl-Q. And I just couldn't do it. I don't see the point in playing a game if you are going to cheat. So I lost the ship. What would YOU have done? Myn Cursed a lot. Thought very hard. Then decloak and make a run for it. As for logging off, I don't think there's (m)any occasions where I've logged off in 'hostile territory'. It's only very rare that I'm logged off not at a POS or station. Personally, I don't think this situation will change - there are many good reasons that logoffs/disconnects need to happen. I've seen several occasions where people crash to desktop when jumping through a gate. Sometimes you do just have to log somewhere, despite being far from somewhere convenient to do so. I don't think that's like to change. The change in game mechanic I'd like to see involves a longer warp (max range according to your cap perhaps?), but a longer logoff timer (an hour or more) if not in space where you hold sov. THe idea being that if someone does logoffski and someone spotted 'em doing it, then they'd be fairly easy to probe. If they did so in an out of the way system, then the odds of accidentally getting spotted would be low. Then again, how about we write a Pledge? "I, <Character name>, do solemnly swear that I consider log in and log out to be separate from game mechanics. I shall log off only when I am finished playing, and shall as far as is possible, only do so when I am somewhere safe, in that it would be improbable that someone would accidentally find (and kill) me if I stayed logged in. Given that I am logged off somewhere safe and convenient, I will therefore not use my logging on to create an ambush." Sounds reasonable? Worth a new thread? :)
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:22:00 - [38] IMO: - Warp disruptor bubbles and dictor bubbles should count as agression. - Hitting ctrl-q should trigger a 15 minute loggin back timer. Because if you planning to quit for the night you won't be planning coming back soon. (dunno if that's feasible, if server can see the diference between crash and loggout, not my area of expertize)
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen IMO: - Warp disruptor bubbles and dictor bubbles should count as agression. - Hitting ctrl-q should trigger a 15 minute loggin back timer. Because if you planning to quit for the night you won't be planning coming back soon. (dunno if that's feasible, if server can see the diference between crash and loggout, not my area of expertize) there should be a diffrence between crashing and logging out, maybe when a client logs out the client sends soemthing to the servers saying its logging out, if you crash the client won't do this, the server will say "wtf, he didn't me a postcard saying he logged out" then would take it as a crash. Could this work, I'm no computer expert. Euro 0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment
Nanobot Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:55:00 - [40] Edited by: Nanobot on 27/10/2006 11:57:54 Edited by: Nanobot on 27/10/2006 11:55:41 Originally by: Kaeten Originally by: Ishmael Hansen IMO: - Warp disruptor bubbles and dictor bubbles should count as agression. - Hitting ctrl-q should trigger a 15 minute loggin back timer. Because if you planning to quit for the night you won't be planning coming back soon. (dunno if that's feasible, if server can see the diference between crash and loggout, not my area of expertize) there should be a diffrence between crashing and logging out, maybe when a client logs out the client sends soemthing to the servers saying its logging out, if you crash the client won't do this, the server will say "wtf, he didn't me a postcard saying he logged out" then would take it as a crash. Could this work, I'm no computer expert. Ai normally I'd CTRL Q. However - Bugger I'm in a bubble Unplug Ethernet... UNPLUG damn you. (Too easy to exploit) ^^^^NB. No I have never done this, only used as an example of how easy it already is to claim a client crash. Shoot 1st, shoot some more, keep shooting, some more shot, and if anyones alive after ask a few questions. Just a soldier following orders.
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.27 11:58:00 - [41] having a system where your ship will stay in space if you log off in enemy territory is the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard. As shin ra said, a small corp or alliance is often required to eventually log off... so you are saying if i go to say c4c (where i cant dock), they bubble up all the gates, its 3am ive got work the next day, and if i want to save my ship from being scanned down i have to stay up all night jumpin safespots until they leave. Thats the most ridiculous idea ive ever heard.
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. Signed
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.27 12:59:00 - [43] If you log in and you are not near an object (like station or a gate), perhaps a 5-10 minute "can't fight" timer would be ok? So you want to join us?
Roga Midrennie Caldari Rage of Angels	Posted - 2006.10.27 13:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Derrios if you Control+Q or close client. You should remain in game if aggressed. Simple as that. It's very annoying to see insert name here be in structure and just magically POOF. No eve warp, no nothing, just gone. The worst thing is, this is being employed via a means to blockade run, and disrupt combat, primarily when called primary. Secondly, it is known that you can open multiple clients and log in over yourself to also attain a similar result. Both these things need to be looked at, and trust me. Changing the disappear time for an aggressed ship isnt that hard -_- I thought that CCP had fixed the issue that i have put into bold in your quote so i tested it. I took 2 of my characters on different accounts. The tackler warp scrambled Roga. I opened another client and logged in on the Roga account and activated one of my alts, undocked and docked that alt. Roga remained in space, warp scrambled and shootable by the tackler the whole time. I repeated the logging in of an alt on the Roga account twice and always remained exactly where i was. - MYTH BUSTED!
D75485 Underworld Zombies	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:09:00 - [45] it will always be so dont fight it
Vashi Dokumentu The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.10.27 19:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Frogzuk I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy May be u need stop crying ?? "OMG THEY ARE USED OUR TACTIC!!!!! BLOB THE F OUT EVERYTHING!!! CALL CCP TO FIX IT!!! WE ARE LOOSING THE SPACE!!!!!" - doestn look famaliar ? The main prolem with some gamers, is, when they are winning everything is fine with them game and etc, but when they are starts loosing - everything is wrong. Mouse is sux, keybord is sux, connection is sux, GAME is sux........ PS and nice to see, what you are quit the -v-, probably the KOS drama made u to do that right ?? , u dont want to be on the side of evil enymore right ??
Awox Minmatar Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.28 06:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu Originally by: Frogzuk I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy May be u need stop crying ?? "OMG THEY ARE USED OUR TACTIC!!!!! BLOB THE F OUT EVERYTHING!!! CALL CCP TO FIX IT!!! WE ARE LOOSING THE SPACE!!!!!" - doestn look famaliar ? The main prolem with some gamers, is, when they are winning everything is fine with them game and etc, but when they are starts loosing - everything is wrong. Mouse is sux, keybord is sux, connection is sux, GAME is sux........ PS and nice to see, what you are quit the -v-, probably the KOS drama made u to do that right ?? , u dont want to be on the side of evil enymore right ?? Way to de-rail the thread *******, but what can I expect from someone of your affiliation? Amazing all the R.A.T/xDEATHx/RA & friends posting to these threads claiming it's a non-issue and it's just because RL comes first. Kind of like, there's no exploit to farm the last level of a complex 23/7.. Even if RL did come first, the person who trapped you used their RL time, your RL time is not more important. If something horrible happens in RL that forces you to log out it should just be bad luck. - Logoffski Name & SHAME
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers	Posted - 2006.10.28 12:48:00 - [48] Edited by: Frogzuk on 28/10/2006 12:49:16 Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu Originally by: Frogzuk I would like to bring to the table my thoughts on game mechanics, the issue of logging off in hostile space. Pilots of DGF are forbidden to employ this tatic as i honestly believe it is not the way EVE should be played, and attacking force must set up a base of operation within the hostile system, placing a pos or taking the system from the defenders, but if they fail then they should not be allowed to log off in the hostile system the attackers must leave that system and return to npc or home territory if they have failed to achieve the objective ! Be good to see what others think about this ... froggy May be u need stop crying ?? "OMG THEY ARE USED OUR TACTIC!!!!! BLOB THE F OUT EVERYTHING!!! CALL CCP TO FIX IT!!! WE ARE LOOSING THE SPACE!!!!!" - doestn look famaliar ? The main prolem with some gamers, is, when they are winning everything is fine with them game and etc, but when they are starts loosing - everything is wrong. Mouse is sux, keybord is sux, connection is sux, GAME is sux........ PS and nice to see, what you are quit the -v-, probably the KOS drama made u to do that right ?? , u dont want to be on the side of evil enymore right ?? Truth be told i rarely post in forums because of the immaturity of some, please stay on topic and put aside the alliance issues, we are no longer in an alliance. This discussion is about logging off in hostile space regardless of the side you are on. As a side note, we did not leave -V- because of KOS, DGF left -V- because of its own (DGF) internal issues ! I hope a forum mod deletes your irrelevent post tbh, its way off the topic ! Froggy
Johnny Bravo Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2006.10.29 00:54:00 - [49] No way you can do anything about logoffski with the current "stable" servers. Its faking bad as is with node crashing, imagine if the side what managed to log second after crash would be penalized not only by losing battle, but also by losing all they ships after the crash... THAT is the root of the problem - node crashing and CTD even in moderate size camps make it impossible for CCP to imploy any hard counter to bubble/agression logoffski tactic.
Xiaodown Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.29 23:04:00 - [50] Edited by: Xiaodown on 29/10/2006 23:08:30 Originally by: Saran Tal Originally by: Plutoinum Most people crash in bubbles. CCP really needs to check mobile warp disruptors and interdictor speres. The 'warp-scramble function' seems to cause client crashes. this is one fo the most annoying things i ahve come accross in eve afaik if you are scrambled with a normal ship scram and you 'ctd' you dont warp off... but if your in a dictor bubble or mobile bubble the scram effect is negated by the 'ctd'... makes saran a sad cookie I agree with saran, and not just cause I love her to death. An easy solution is to allow logoffskis - legit and otherwise - when scrambled by a ship's module. Any ship, be it pirate or NPC frig in a mission. However, if you log off while scrambled by a bubble or warp disrupt field, your ship is STILL affected by the scramble, and your number is up. Solly Chollie, buy the farm, hope you had insurance. I certainly would be willing to live under those rules. It's simple, concise, and allows for mission runners and ratters to survive a real disconnect while NPC scrambled. If you disconnect while in a bubble, or a warp disrupt field, it sucks to be you. I say it's a good plan. The only objection people will have is that it certainly IS possible that people can disconnect, or lag out, while inside of a bubble or warp disrupter field. But, to that, I say: I think the opportunity of stopping the logoffski FAR out weighs the likely hood of actually causing someone to die in a disconnect - because I think that for every legit, unintentional disconnect-while-in-bubble, there are probably 50 logoffskis. Solve the bigger problem, and people will deal with the smaller. ~Xiao EDIT: updated to improve clarity.
noblar The Four Aces	Posted - 2006.10.30 02:05:00 - [51] I have suffered this problem a few times myself. When my ship is about to go boom (say when there is 10% of structure left) I press the little red emergency warp button at the very top right of my window and the bloody client crashes and when I log back on I am nearly all ways in my pod. I have filled many reimbursement petitions but with no success. CCP fix this now please!
Kaosaur Dark Nebula Gallente Division Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists its pretty annoying seeing most hostiles "crashing" when theyre in structure, rlly hope ccp can sort that crap out. I would love to see CCP implement something like Proximity Mines specifically for this purpose. It would be something where you have to anchor it and you can't if there's any object within 25k except your ship. That way you can't place it around I gate and it can't be put in high sec. Place it as close as possible to where they logged. When the "crashed" cough player logs back in, WHAM!!! Something like that anyway.
Fartimus Prime Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:45:00 - [53] Why not just have the client tell the server that the user hit ctrl-Q before quitting? That way the server will still warp you away if the client program actually crashes, but if you hit ctrl-Q you will stay in that spot for a few minutes.
Kaosaur Dark Nebula Gallente Division Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.30 04:53:00 - [54] Edited by: Kaosaur on 30/10/2006 04:54:41 Another possible solution to crash.vs.logoffski: When you crash, your ship stays where it is and gets an automatic 10 minute invulnerability timer. When you log back in, that timer starts over again at 30 seconds of invulnerability, giving you time to get your bearings and everyone else a chance to get ready to pop you. If you don't loga back in, the timer runs out, and your ship and pod get popped. Adjust time frames as deemed appropriate. As far as logging off in areas of space, try any other system mentioned...
madhapee Amarr Damage Unlimited Inc Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:30:00 - [55] I have tried to make a suggestion to fix logoff issues in Kali, please join the discussion: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=417495&page=1#12
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.30 11:49:00 - [56] Edited by: Chi Prime on 30/10/2006 11:50:01 Personally I find mass logONs a bigger annoyance than logOFFs. 100+ ppl that all of a sudden want to play eve together and log on at the same instant to find a hostile op (which they now outnumber) in the system, by pure coincidence.
Frogzuk Dragonian Freelancers	Posted - 2006.10.30 12:22:00 - [57] Originally by: Chi Prime Edited by: Chi Prime on 30/10/2006 11:50:01 Personally I find mass logONs a bigger annoyance than logOFFs. 100+ ppl that all of a sudden want to play eve together and log on at the same instant to find a hostile op (which they now outnumber) in the system, by pure coincidence. If we can have a system that prevents logoff then the logon trap will also become a thing of the past. Because the two issues are closely linked. I have witness fleets forming in friendly space, log off then the lone 'scout' will call everyone in once the said system is 'quiet'. This is not how eve should be played ! It simple case of you want to log off do so out of hostile space, as for free raoming smaller corps eg burn eden, yes its a valid tatic on your part, but you and simlar corps should plan 'sorties' into and out of hostile space. A sure sign of a good pvp unit is one that moves coordinated into hostile space, makes the kills then moves back out into friendly space, CHON do this execptionally well as do finate horizon (forgive the spellings) and those corps gain an element of respect from thier foes for doing just this. froggy
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.30 12:47:00 - [58] For your edification and delight, on the matter of logging off, may I present: the pledge As has been noted, sometimes you do just crash on jump gate transition. Sometimes your cat knocks over your modem. Sometimes someone picks up the phone disconnecting you. There will never be a total solution. So the alternative? I encourage everyone who considers logging on and off as 'combat strategy' to be against the spirit of the game to add their support. Maybe it won't fix anything. Those that do, probably still will. No game mechanic will ever stop that. But those that waver, and who haven't considered whether it's 'right' or not, don't need to hear 'but everyone else does it'. What they need to hear is from those who _do_ consider it 'inappropriate gameplay'.
Avoid Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.30 13:50:00 - [59] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists its pretty annoying seeing most hostiles "crashing" when theyre in structure, rlly hope ccp can sort that crap out. Im sorry to say it, but we have had a few bob guys haveing the same problem, whit crashing when they jump into a dictor camp. The good thing is though that most guys can log back a few minutes later, and get what they came for. so the problem is not that big. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes "Here was the brand of the cigerates i smoke" I don't smoke - Cortes
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.30 13:58:00 - [60] Originally by: INZi i would like to see the day u crash in a 1on1 or in a bubble which you can escape from. the rabble rabble we would see then: PETITION PETINTION BASTARDOUS CCP. get on, live with it Has happened, and know what no petition. If it comes out of the hanger I expect to lose it. If I don't I call it my lucky day. "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!"

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